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Spurs Build up thread - (H) 28th


SaintBitterne

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It's not just mental preparation, it's also about time on the training ground to prepare.

 

Footballers but might be privileged, overpaid human beings, but they are human beings nonetheless and are still susceptible to mental factors in the same way as you or I. It could even be argued that due to their privileged lifestyle they are more susceptible to them. Using the money someone earns as a reason why they should be immune to any sort of feeling or mental weakness is well wide of the mark.

 

If work dropped it on me today that something has come up and I have to work over Christmas, then I guess I'd do it, but I wouldn't be happy about it. If they turned round and said "with your salary, you've got no complaints - oh and by the way, you need to be in extra early", I wouldn't think "fair enough, I'll make an extra effort next week".

 

thing is, work is not about to surprise them. it is part of the job. As it is with many people

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thing is, work is not about to surprise them. it is part of the job. As it is with many people

 

Ok sure, my example was a bit extreme to demonstrate a point. But football is usually decided at the margins. The players are quite capable of playing 3 games in 6 days, but it's also entirely plausible that they might not be 100% mentally, and having lots of money doesn't make them immune to that.

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Fair enough, my comment was more of a suggestion than statement. To be honest I think Tadic is a fantastic player and find Redmond a hugely frustrating one, so I know who I'd prefer to play - but thinking there must be a good reason for Puel to think otherwise...!

Agreed, just wish I could understand what it is. Clause in his contract? Incriminating photos?

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True, but the problem is we're not on a level playing field. We might rotate well but ultimately West Brom have 2 extra days to prepare/rest than us, and Everton have an extra day.

 

I'm hoping that mentally it might suit the players better to spend Christmas with their families and then have a "football only" week rather than juggling the two. Might be clutching at straws with that line of thinking though...!

I'm concerned that our players may not return from a holiday break at peak form. We seem to take a match to recover full fitness. On the other hand the same applies to Spurs. It could depend on which side has least players flying in from abroad. I reckon we'll start slowly and play at our best in the second half. 2-0

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So do I; isn't it about time now Claude found out his best formation and therefore his First Team X1? Accept that with 3 games in 6 days (crazy - media saying its hard on Chelsea playing 3 in !0 FGS!!) changes will be made with hose 6 subs easily slotting in on a like for like basis.

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What does Tadic have out of interest?

 

1 premier league goal and 1 Europa League assist....

 

People should check things like this before making stupid remarks like that shouldn't they.

 

They hate for Redmond is weird. I think he is a top prospect and would benefit from our fans actually giving him some support.

 

 

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1 premier league goal and 1 Europa League assist....

 

People should check things like this before making stupid remarks like that shouldn't they.

 

They hate for Redmond is weird. I think he is a top prospect and would benefit from our fans actually giving him some support.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It's not all about stats though. 'Chances created' is probably more meaningful if you are going to look at that, and Tadic is high on the list. By the same token, Redmond has created a fair few and probably shouldn't be criticised using his statistics.

 

I'm a bit worried that Tadic is heading for his usual winter slump, but in general the reason I prefer Tadic to Redmond is that Tadic is always looking to create something and demonstrates quality when he is on the pitch (subjective I know). Redmond has potential but for me plays too safe and is less likely to 'unlock' the defence compared to Dusan. Redmond is marginally more of a goal threat, but I'd rather have the (much, in my eyes) better creator on rather than a marginally better shooter.

 

Either way it could be a moot point over xmas as surely they and Boufal will all be sharing game time, possibly with Sims as well.

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It's not all about stats though. 'Chances created' is probably more meaningful if you are going to look at that, and Tadic is high on the list. By the same token, Redmond has created a fair few and probably shouldn't be criticised using his statistics.

 

I'm a bit worried that Tadic is heading for his usual winter slump, but in general the reason I prefer Tadic to Redmond is that Tadic is always looking to create something and demonstrates quality when he is on the pitch (subjective I know). Redmond has potential but for me plays too safe and is less likely to 'unlock' the defence compared to Dusan. Redmond is marginally more of a goal threat, but I'd rather have the (much, in my eyes) better creator on rather than a marginally better shooter.

 

Either way it could be a moot point over xmas as surely they and Boufal will all be sharing game time, possibly with Sims as well.

 

True, but this was really in response to someone justifying the amount of appreciation Redmond gets (or lack thereof) using the stats 3 goals and 1 assist as a negative against him and an argument for Tadic. I merely pointed out the equivalent stats.

 

 

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To be fair, there were a lot of people gobsmacked at that one at the time (even with him being on a booking) - there was a five minute period where everything went through him and he was a superb outlet for holding up the ball. Even let him off that awful giveaway near our box early on which nearly led to their second...

Agreed. Thought he was right to be miffed when substituted. Was sure that Redmond would come off as Boufal was starting to create panic in the Cherries defence. Understand that the yellow card was a concern but not enough to take him off. Shows he is passionate about playing anyway.

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He isn't. Very poor defensively (then again Tadic is not brilliant). Partly to blame for Boscombe's goal on Sunday (notwithstanding Hojbjerg's terrible marking), losing his marker (the goal scorer) and wandering aimlessly out of the box when the ball was coming in. He is marginally better when he is on our left, seems to have a better understanding of how to work with Bertrand.

 

I'm sorry, but this is where people's dislike of a player on this site really frustrates me - trying to blame them for everything. I have my concerns and frustrations with Redmond, but to suggest he's in any way at fault for bompeys goal is ridiculous. Redmonds job was clearly to watch for runners on the edge of the box, and ake was peh's man. Redmond readjusted his position when bompey changed the angle to Wiltshire, so yes made a step out, but we had two spare men on the six yard line, one of whom was the stationary peh. Who was meant to be marking ake. He was not even remotely to blame, he did not lose his marker and did not step out aimlessly.

 

And later on it was his determination to chase down a ball that led to j-rods stunner. Redmond is not the new Henry, has poor end product at the moment, does not get his head up often or early enough and can be very frustrating. But trying to blame him for other people's errors is not fair IMHO. His work rate should be applauded, and his speed and trickery acknowledged for the problems it causes opposing defences.

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I'm sorry, but this is where people's dislike of a player on this site really frustrates me - trying to blame them for everything. I have my concerns and frustrations with Redmond, but to suggest he's in any way at fault for bompeys goal is ridiculous. Redmonds job was clearly to watch for runners on the edge of the box, and ake was peh's man. Redmond readjusted his position when bompey changed the angle to Wiltshire, so yes made a step out, but we had two spare men on the six yard line, one of whom was the stationary peh. Who was meant to be marking ake. He was not even remotely to blame, he did not lose his marker and did not step out aimlessly.

 

And later on it was his determination to chase down a ball that led to j-rods stunner. Redmond is not the new Henry, has poor end product at the moment, does not get his head up often or early enough and can be very frustrating. But trying to blame him for other people's errors is not fair IMHO. His work rate should be applauded, and his speed and trickery acknowledged for the problems it causes opposing defences.

 

You must be watching different games to me then. Never makes a forward pass and always takes the 'safe' sideways or backwards pass (I actually think he slows the play down, which for someone with his pace, he shouldn't be doing).

 

As for trickery I reckon I could count on one hand the amount of times he's beaten a defender (which Tadic does time and time again and has half the pace of Redmond).

 

Overall I'd say he's pretty easy to defend against and brings nothing to the team (yet). Hopefully it's just a confidence issue as the lad clearly has potential, he just needs to express himself a little more.

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I'm sorry, but this is where people's dislike of a player on this site really frustrates me - trying to blame them for everything. I have my concerns and frustrations with Redmond, but to suggest he's in any way at fault for bompeys goal is ridiculous. Redmonds job was clearly to watch for runners on the edge of the box, and ake was peh's man. Redmond readjusted his position when bompey changed the angle to Wiltshire, so yes made a step out, but we had two spare men on the six yard line, one of whom was the stationary peh. Who was meant to be marking ake. He was not even remotely to blame, he did not lose his marker and did not step out aimlessly.

Sorry fella, but you are very wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion. You are also wrong that you think anyone is blaming him for everything, no-one is. He wasn't directly or completely responsible, but his actions (or lack thereof) were clearly a contributing factor. I was only pointing this out because someone posted that his defensive work is good, when it clearly isn't. It wasn't the main reason for the goal, but it was an example of his poor defensive qualities. If people seeing how poor his defensive work is frustrates you then so be it, be frustrated, get used to it on here because people criticise players a lot, often for no good reason. His performances frustrate me, and many others, because they are currently, in the most part, shocking (he had a few good games early in the season but latey has been awful). I'm sure over time he will get better, but he needs to be taken out of the team for now to work on his game because at the moment he is not good enough, and its frustrating that more often than not at the moment we are effectively playing with 10 men. I have no dislike of the fella, but at the moment he is not good enough, and when that changes I will be very pleased to have him in the side.

 

By the way, his determination to chase down the ball for JRod's goal, is also a good case in point, glad you mentioned it. Yes he was determined, but he then gave the ball away, as he does so often. Fortunately the ball came off the defender and rebounded off his chest and dropped for JRod who hit his stunner.

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Sorry fella, but you are very wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion. You are also wrong that you think anyone is blaming him for everything, no-one is. He wasn't directly or completely responsible, but his actions (or lack thereof) were clearly a contributing factor. I was only pointing this out because someone posted that his defensive work is good, when it clearly isn't. It wasn't the main reason for the goal, but it was an example of his poor defensive qualities. If people seeing how poor his defensive work is frustrates you then so be it, be frustrated, get used to it on here because people criticise players a lot, often for no good reason. His performances frustrate me, and many others, because they are currently, in the most part, shocking (he had a few good games early in the season but latey has been awful). I'm sure over time he will get better, but he needs to be taken out of the team for now to work on his game because at the moment he is not good enough, and its frustrating that more often than not at the moment we are effectively playing with 10 men. I have no dislike of the fella, but at the moment he is not good enough, and when that changes I will be very pleased to have him in the side.

 

By the way, his determination to chase down the ball for JRod's goal, is also a good case in point, glad you mentioned it. Yes he was determined, but he then gave the ball away, as he does so often. Fortunately the ball came off the defender and rebounded off his chest and dropped for JRod who hit his stunner.

 

He wasn't chasing a loose ball, he received the ball turned his man and drove towards the box. The ricochet was lucky but he created that shooting change for Jay Rod.

 

If you're going to flag something as ridiculous as his contribution to Bournemouth's goal - which was not remotely his fault - then you should acknowledge his far more direct contribution to our third goal.

 

On the whole, I agree that he is frustrating. He needs more coaching on his decision making and end product. That's obvious. But it's also obvious that he's potentially a very decent player. Your post was absurd.

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He wasn't chasing a loose ball, he received the ball turned his man and drove towards the box. The ricochet was lucky but he created that shooting change for Jay Rod.

 

If you're going to flag something as ridiculous as his contribution to Bournemouth's goal - which was not remotely his fault - then you should acknowledge his far more direct contribution to our third goal.

 

On the whole, I agree that he is frustrating. He needs more coaching on his decision making and end product. That's obvious. But it's also obvious that he's potentially a very decent player. Your post was absurd.

 

Pretty much this. The lad has ability my main frustration is I want him to get into the opposition box more and forces defenders to commit rather than stop on the edge and play the easy ball.

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You must be watching different games to me then. Never makes a forward pass and always takes the 'safe' sideways or backwards pass (I actually think he slows the play down, which for someone with his pace, he shouldn't be doing).

 

As for trickery I reckon I could count on one hand the amount of times he's beaten a defender (which Tadic does time and time again and has half the pace of Redmond).

 

Overall I'd say he's pretty easy to defend against and brings nothing to the team (yet). Hopefully it's just a confidence issue as the lad clearly has potential, he just needs to express himself a little more.

 

Totally agree with this.

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Pretty much this. The lad has ability my main frustration is I want him to get into the opposition box more and forces defenders to commit rather than stop on the edge and play the easy ball.

 

Like a lot of our players, he wants a look at every possible pass before committing, which more often than not leads to the easy backwards or sideways one being the only one left open.

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The game of blame and counter blame has no solution so we must rely on Puel's team judgement to decide who should play and who should not. Let's face it every poster on here has his or her own favourites who can do no wrong and conversely their own bête noir in whom no good will ever be seen. There is little objective opinion worth a candle on here and why should there be as none of us are allowed anywhere near activities behind the scenes to make judgements for ourselves?

 

Fact is our players seem to play better against open-style 'good footballing sides' and very poorly against physical, massed ranks, long ball exponents. Not rocket science to equate that to time on the ball makes the difference. It's not just Redmond, there is a ponderousness about our passing that frustrates time after time. e are not yet that good at genuine flowing one-touch football even if that is the goal to which we aspire.

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Redmond is just a headless chicken and a poor version of Boufal. Seeing him playing in the final third is painful as our possession usually lost at him. However, he did not feel any remorse but trying to blame someone not coming forward. You can see other players started not passing balls to him.

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That's never a term I would use this season.

 

Quite, we're playing on Spurs H 28th Dec, West Brom H 31st Dec, Everton A 2nd Jan and then Norwich A FA Cup on 7th, Liverpool H Lge Cup Semi on 11th and Burnley A on 14th. If we draw with Norwich there's a replay on 18th, Leicester H on 22nd, Liverpool A Lge Cup Semi 2nd Leg on 25th, a possible FA Cup 4th Round game on 28th/29th and then Swansea on 31st Jan.

 

Anyone not expecting rotation is completely deluded, and part of rotation is definitely not definitely putting out our strongest side three times when we're playing 3 games in 6 days, even if they have finally had just over a week off first team matches.

 

You'd have to assume we'll have the stronger side in alternate games: Spurs, Everton A, Liverpool cup first leg and second leg and, depending on our Cup results and who we draw and where, either the FA Cup 4th round game or Swansea.

 

That leaves the weaker side for West Brom, Norwich A, Burnley A, replay/Leicester and then the easier of the FA Cup 4th round or Swansea games.

 

And yeah, we'll probably go back to trying to keep the ball and not run as much, and score one more than the opposition.

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Redmond is just a headless chicken and a poor version of Boufal. Seeing him playing in the final third is painful as our possession usually lost at him. However, he did not feel any remorse but trying to blame someone not coming forward. You can see other players started not passing balls to him.

 

Redmond has the highest pass completion % of all our strikers, and the 5th highest in Premier League games of the entire squad (ignoring Pied's 11 minutes). He's also played more minutes than his rivals on the list, which includes non-pressurised passers like Romeu and Yoshida ahead of him, alongside the more attacking Davis and Hojbjerg.

 

The other 3 strikers, Rodriguez, Long and Austin, and Fraser Forster, are the bottom 4 on the list of 23 players with pass percentages under 65% - Redmond's is 85.8%. So he's a lot of things, but he is absolutely not the reason for us losing possession. He also only does 2.1 dribbles per game, and has 1.1 bad touches (Boufal has more than double that), so it's not that either.

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/-Southampton

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I reckon...

 

Forster

 

Cedric

Fonte

VvD

Bertrand

 

Rom

JwP

Davis

 

Boufal

Rodriguez

Redmond

 

then for the following game,

Yoshida, Clasie, Hoj, McQueen and Tadic will start

 

and so on

 

I think you may actually be right here. You forgot Long (who'll definitely want to play against his old club West Brom just as Rodriguez will probably prefer to play Pochettino's Spurs). Wouldn't be surprised to see Cuco for Cedric at right back against West Brom either. And he'll almost certainly play at Norwich. Will be interesting to see if Redmond gets rested against West Brom because he'll be keen to play against Norwich - and whilst I'm sure player preference isn't a major driver for Puel, it pretty much fits with what he'll probably want to do anyway.

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Quite, we're playing on Spurs H 28th Dec, West Brom H 31st Dec, Everton A 2nd Jan and then Norwich A FA Cup on 7th, Liverpool H Lge Cup Semi on 11th and Burnley A on 14th. If we draw with Norwich there's a replay on 18th, Leicester H on 22nd, Liverpool A Lge Cup Semi 2nd Leg on 25th, a possible FA Cup 4th Round game on 28th/29th and then Swansea on 31st Jan.

 

Anyone not expecting rotation is completely deluded, and part of rotation is definitely not definitely putting out our strongest side three times when we're playing 3 games in 6 days, even if they have finally had just over a week off first team matches.

 

You'd have to assume we'll have the stronger side in alternate games: Spurs, Everton A, Liverpool cup first leg and second leg and, depending on our Cup results and who we draw and where, either the FA Cup 4th round game or Swansea.

 

That leaves the weaker side for West Brom, Norwich A, Burnley A, replay/Leicester and then the easier of the FA Cup 4th round or Swansea games.

 

And yeah, we'll probably go back to trying to keep the ball and not run as much, and score one more than the opposition.

You must stop this relentless flow of logic and common sense. It's too much for some on here!

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You must be watching different games to me then. Never makes a forward pass and always takes the 'safe' sideways or backwards pass (I actually think he slows the play down, which for someone with his pace, he shouldn't be doing).

 

As for trickery I reckon I could count on one hand the amount of times he's beaten a defender (which Tadic does time and time again and has half the pace of Redmond).

 

Overall I'd say he's pretty easy to defend against and brings nothing to the team (yet). Hopefully it's just a confidence issue as the lad clearly has potential, he just needs to express himself a little more.

 

TKfE1Ki.png

 

This shows that he's our second most creative player with passing after Tadic. Stats are sorted by Key Passes per 90 minutes but the other columns are pretty much self-explanatory.

 

However, shows he's much better with the ball and has many more successful dribbles.

 

Fewer dribbles than Boufal, but more consistent with an outcome (of a shot or pass) and much fewer moments of bad control. He's also dispossessed fewer times than either Tadic or Boufal.

 

I'm not arguing that Redmond is better than Boufal. It's clear Boufal is pretty much the top quality finished article (and his average performances show that), but there really isn't that much difference when you look at the actual numbers.

 

It's just weird for me that a player, who is statistically (performance data) decent, rated by our manager and often highlighted by experts as being one of our most dangerous players, is so underrated by Saints fans. Something just feels off about it. He gets more **** from fans near me in the Northam than any of our players I can remember off the top of my head.

 

Did people have much bigger expectations? Was he expected to replace Mané in fan minds? Is it the way he can seem stroppy sometimes on the pitch that turned fans off so quickly?

 

It's just crazy.

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TKfE1Ki.png

 

This shows that he's our second most creative player with passing after Tadic. Stats are sorted by Key Passes per 90 minutes but the other columns are pretty much self-explanatory.

 

However, shows he's much better with the ball and has many more successful dribbles.

 

Fewer dribbles than Boufal, but more consistent with an outcome (of a shot or pass) and much fewer moments of bad control. He's also dispossessed fewer times than either Tadic or Boufal.

 

I'm not arguing that Redmond is better than Boufal. It's clear Boufal is pretty much the top quality finished article (and his average performances show that), but there really isn't that much difference when you look at the actual numbers.

 

It's just weird for me that a player, who is statistically (performance data) decent, rated by our manager and often highlighted by experts as being one of our most dangerous players, is so underrated by Saints fans. Something just feels off about it. He gets more **** from fans near me in the Northam than any of our players I can remember off the top of my head.

 

Did people have much bigger expectations? Was he expected to replace Mané in fan minds? Is it the way he can seem stroppy sometimes on the pitch that turned fans off so quickly?

 

It's just crazy.

 

Can't deny he has been frustrating but sad so many fans have so little patience. Same with Pelle and Clasie and even Mane.

And of course many are compete dickheads who don't really understand football.

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Any reason why we have just about one half of the hours taken for 3 games than Chelsea, other than big club favour? Do we need to give up the middle game and concentrate the other two?

 

Quite simple and whoever is picked for the Wednesday game is going to struggle. People like the tv money.

I' anyone can rotate effectively Claude can.

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How is it cricketers can play 5 days in a row yet our little lambs can't manage 3 games in a week?

 

Clearly England have shown in India that they can't play properly for 5 days! But that's probably a different forum.

 

Nevertheless... different sports, different physical requirements & intensities. But I'm sure you know that & your tongue was firmly in your cheek :p

 

Still, there's a clear and distinct difference between us and the rest of the division. Surely the 'fixtures computer' could have spotted that and changed it?

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How is it cricketers can play 5 days in a row yet our little lambs can't manage 3 games in a week?

 

Probably the same way as Cal Ripken played 2,632 consecutive baseball games.

 

They play around 152 games a season from April to October, and he never missed a game for 17 years!

 

And don't dare call it men's rounders. It's at least as strenuous as cricket.

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Surely the 'fixtures computer' could have spotted that and changed it?

Its not the fixtures computer that is the trouble, it is pandering to the demands of Sky/BT.

While we have by far the shortest gap between the 3 "festive" games we also have the longest break before the first of these games.

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Probably the same way as Cal Ripken played 2,632 consecutive baseball games.

 

They play around 152 games a season from April to October, and he never missed a game for 17 years!

 

And don't dare call it men's rounders. It's at least as strenuous as cricket.

 

Ice Hockey too - 82 games a season (often back to back games) in a sport that is much more physical and demanding than Football - they seem to manage fairly well

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