Saints 0 Stoke 0 Match Reaction

[Shroppie]

A positive from last night that shouldn't be missed is that Stoke had the potential to be very dangerous on the break, especially at the end, but we were very effective at closing down breaks and recovering the ball. Important, as to have lost with a sucker punch would have been gutting.

 

But, as I commented earlier, our movement lets us down. We constantly have 5 or 6 strung across the pitch and move the ball backwards and forwards very prettily. But the killer ball doesn't come. When we get a cross in, bodies are conspicuously absent from the box, except JRod who can't force the ball in the net to see his life at the moment . Midfielders need to gamble.

 

And constantly working the ball out for a cross is predictable. The brave ball into feet in the box, sharp one-twos and the incisive pass don't happen. Why? Sorry, but I don't think Redmond has the footballing brain for it, Tadić and Boufal haven't played together enough yet to develop the sort of understanding thst there was between Tadic, Mané and Pelle last season. And of course Davis, JWP etc need to be making runs.

 

There were just occasional signs of this happening last night, especially when the chance was made for JRod to miss, but there's a way to go. Hopefully understand will grow and we'll get there.

 

(Apologies if you're seeing weird font variations. Haven't a clue why.)

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Shroppie

[East Kent Saint]

Puel also thought our build up was too slow and we were lacking in the final third so he at least agrees with us !!!

[saintbenny]

You could not fault the effort last night but its clear to see that we are lacking something in the final third.

 

We totally dominated the game (even when Stoke had 11 on the pitch) and I would rather watch Saints any day of the week than have to watch Stoke play on a weekly basis.

 

We have the foundation of a really good team. SB looks like a hell of a player and Bertie had a good game last night as well. If Grant had not made a worldie save and Jrod had not missed from a foot (The only striker I know who ends up in the back of the net more times than the shots he takes) then we would all be saying what a great away win and everything is looking good.

 

I personally really enjoyed the game, although as always with Saints it was a frustrating watch...but this is Saints and I have come to expect and in a weird way love that.

 

On to Sunday....

[OldNick]

Looks like Liverpool only need to score 1 goal in either match to go through in the cup, lol

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Because they will go for it. We rarely keep a clean sheet and so boring going forward

 

Everton, Boro, Stoke,Arsenal , yeah rarely... you are an idiot

[SuperSAINT]

What good would that do? A target man to hold the ball up for the rest of our team...who can't score?

 

The last 2 target men we've had (Lambert / Pelle) also scored goals, for what it's worth.

[charliemiller]

Our problem is simple to rectify , it may not be immediate but Puel needs to .........DECIDE ON HIS BEST 11 AND STICK WITH IT NOW

The problem is not the back five or six they virtually pick themselves .....Forster Fonte VVD cedric or coco Bertie or mcqueen ...with Romeu in front ....thats fine .

Its in front of these we have absolutely no continuity .....they play like strangers , players make runs and they are ignored instead ofthe runs being anticipated .

Its not by accident teams at the top of the division have the same core players every match .

 

So IMHO claude needs to decide Hoberg , davis tadic boufal jayrod ....or whoever ...but stick with it , only then i believe we will see fluidity and an edge to our attack .

[mrfahaji]

^ Are you davidinsweden in disguise? Are you daaaaavidinsweden in disguise?

[Faz]

Looks like Liverpool only need to score 1 goal in either match to go through in the cup, lol

 

The same equally applies to us.

[VectisSaint]

The last 2 target men we've had (Lambert / Pelle) also scored goals, for what it's worth.

Pelle only scored goals when the weather was nice, and he was poor at holding it up as well.

[Mallagroth]

Pelle only scored goals when the weather was nice, and he was poor at holding it up as well.

 

I'd suggest he wasn't awful at holding it up based on what i'm seeing this season. But them flick-ons were pretty tasty... well 1 in 10 anyway.

[SuperSAINT]

Pelle only scored goals when the weather was nice, and he was poor at holding it up as well.

 

Disagree on the hold-up play and we don't currently have a striker that scores in any weather, so I'd have him back.

[derry]

Redmond has never scored regularly unless you call once every eleven games career average. Redmond plays like he is not a goalscorer Boufal does the spectacular, is a decent footballer but not a box striker, Tadic gets the odd goal when we are playing well, Davis, JWP, Clasie and Hojbjerg are hopeless in front of goal, Romeu could but is the midfield anchor. I do wish the centre backs would head the ball down in the box when they get the chance. Heading up and over doesn't hit the target.

 

Last night the slow build up allowed Stoke the time to park the bus around the area. Bertrand was effective on the left but Martina's hesitation and indecisiveness on the right together with awful delivery is adding to the midfield lack of penetration. We need at least a pair of strikers up front Puel plays one. We need at least three players that are possibly going to score, Long, Rodriguez and Boufal are all we've got at the moment IMO they should now play possibly 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2, plus maybe Sims. With Hojbjerg and Romeu in midfield. Again IMO the over emphasis on attacking full backs slows the delivery up front. The ball needs to be delivered quickly to the forwards to then get at the back four instead of the full backs delivering the ball badly into a fully defended penalty area. They can support the attacks but not be the focal point.

 

We are not going to get anything different out of the midfield, they don't have it in them. As long as Puel makes the selections he is making we get what we are doing now. High possession, numbers in midfield, good defence, poor attacking and the striker feeding off scraps. What's the point of 71% possession and no goals and few chances.

[stevegrant]

Again IMO the over emphasis on attacking full backs slows the delivery up front. The ball needs to be delivered quickly to the forwards to then get at the back four

This is basically Mike Bassett.

[derry]

This is basically Mike Bassett.

 

I'm not advocating lumping it up front just cutting out a lot of the sideways possession and playing the ball out quickly to the forward players. As many times as the full backs go forward they play it back to the centre backs or exchange passes with the midfielders then more than likely back to the keeper or centre backs.

[stevegrant]

I'm not advocating lumping it up front just cutting out a lot of the sideways possession and playing the ball out quickly to the forward players. As many times as the full backs go forward they play it back to the centre backs or exchange passes with the midfielders then more than likely back to the keeper or centre backs.

I largely have no great issue with our playing style, only that we switch up the pace of it more frequently.

 

The theory is sound, passes between defenders and midfielders to draw opposition midfielders out of position to create a space behind them and then that gives the creative players the freedom, but too often the switch in pace doesn't come soon enough. It needs the central midfielders and full-backs to be a bit sharper. Cedric makes a big difference on the right with that, as Martina's first touch generally goes about 5 yards away from him and any space that he's earned with his pretty decent positional play is then surrendered immediately and that's what often forces us to go sideways and backwards and start it all again.

[The9]

I largely have no great issue with our playing style, only that we switch up the pace of it more frequently.

 

The theory is sound, passes between defenders and midfielders to draw opposition midfielders out of position to create a space behind them and then that gives the creative players the freedom, but too often the switch in pace doesn't come soon enough. It needs the central midfielders and full-backs to be a bit sharper. Cedric makes a big difference on the right with that, as Martina's first touch generally goes about 5 yards away from him and any space that he's earned with his pretty decent positional play is then surrendered immediately and that's what often forces us to go sideways and backwards and start it all again.

 

Completely agree with this up to the word "Cedric".

 

We've won a bigger percentage of games with Cuco playing than Cedric, and it's been very obvious this season that Cuco's instructions in some matches have been just to keep possession and not get caught up the pitch.

[The9]

Football is an entertainment business and we don't entertain. Boring, bloody boring.

 

The most entertaining teams don't necessarily get the best results.

[The9]

still have a pretty good shot at Europa League football again next year.

 

Two wins in the League Cup should do it.

[The9]

What I don't get is why the forum 'Circle of Bellends' keep blaming our performances on Claude Puel being apparently 'dour' and 'boring' What the actual fück has his manner in interviews got to do with anything!?

 

It's the willful cognitive dissonance that somehow he can't motivate players because he does dull interviews, despite the fact there have been games where we've started well (Everton), come from behind (Inter) or just been excellent throughout (West Ham away).

 

The kind of nonsense spouted like "the body language of the players says they're annoyed with the manager", when they're just peed off at not winning, or conceding a goal, etc.

[Greenridge]

Completely agree with this up to the word "Cedric".

 

We've won a bigger percentage of games with Cuco playing than Cedric, and it's been very obvious this season that Cuco's instructions in some matches have been just to keep possession and not get caught up the pitch.

 

If he was the only change in the starting eleven then maybe that stat would have some credence. In reality there are so many changes it's pretty meaningless.

[derry]

I largely have no great issue with our playing style, only that we switch up the pace of it more frequently.

 

The theory is sound, passes between defenders and midfielders to draw opposition midfielders out of position to create a space behind them and then that gives the creative players the freedom, but too often the switch in pace doesn't come soon enough. It needs the central midfielders and full-backs to be a bit sharper. Cedric makes a big difference on the right with that, as Martina's first touch generally goes about 5 yards away from him and any space that he's earned with his pretty decent positional play is then surrendered immediately and that's what often forces us to go sideways and backwards and start it all again.

 

The problem with our defenders and midfielders passing the ball around backwards and sideways the whole of the opposition have loads of time to get goal side and consolidate their defence denying our forwards any where to go more often or not catching the unwary offside. The slow tempo is killing us, Everton for some reason was good and that sort of tempo is required. With the tempo comes the sharper ball movement and earlier pass into the channels/runners.

[Dark Munster]

Redmond has never scored regularly unless you call once every eleven games career average. Redmond plays like he is not a goalscorer Boufal does the spectacular, is a decent footballer but not a box striker, Tadic gets the odd goal when we are playing well, Davis, JWP, Clasie and Hojbjerg are hopeless in front of goal, Romeu could but is the midfield anchor. I do wish the centre backs would head the ball down in the box when they get the chance. Heading up and over doesn't hit the target.

 

Last night the slow build up allowed Stoke the time to park the bus around the area. Bertrand was effective on the left but Martina's hesitation and indecisiveness on the right together with awful delivery is adding to the midfield lack of penetration. We need at least a pair of strikers up front Puel plays one. We need at least three players that are possibly going to score, Long, Rodriguez and Boufal are all we've got at the moment IMO they should now play possibly 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2, plus maybe Sims. With Hojbjerg and Romeu in midfield. Again IMO the over emphasis on attacking full backs slows the delivery up front. The ball needs to be delivered quickly to the forwards to then get at the back four instead of the full backs delivering the ball badly into a fully defended penalty area. They can support the attacks but not be the focal point.

 

We are not going to get anything different out of the midfield, they don't have it in them. As long as Puel makes the selections he is making we get what we are doing now. High possession, numbers in midfield, good defence, poor attacking and the striker feeding off scraps. What's the point of 71% possession and no goals and few chances.

Here we go again, Cuco bashing for the sake of it. He put in half a dozen excellent crosses. The taters here on NBC said as much and were puzzled why he was taken off. Our attacking threat from the right disappeared when he went off.

 

Give credit to Stoke, they defended well. We would've won with a decent front man. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I think we need to bring in a quality striker.

[Cascadia Saint]

It's so frustrating to finally have multiple players who can beat their man with skill - boufal, Tadic, Redmond, and not have any striker to finish their chances.

 

In the second half I was almost hoping for Yoshida to come on for JWP and VVD up front.

[The Cat]

All those Stoke fans celebrating after their 10 men held us to a draw will be feeling a bit sick today.

[trousers]

All those Stoke fans celebrating after their 10 men held us to a draw will be feeling a bit sick today.

According to one of the Stoke players being interviewed on Final Score earlier: "It's always difficult playing against 10 men". I could've told him that...

[Lukee]

In my opinion, and as some others have said, a more creative midfield (as in the CMs themselves) would do wonders for our attack. There's only so much you can do with a midfield that receive the ball and play it either to the right or left back; they all cut the same mold. Tenacious tacklers and good at holding possession, but can't pick a pass. The most creative option is probably either Davis or Ward-Prowse, but even they don't have the ability to unlock or break down a team. If Davis had a better pass on him or a bit more vision it'd be perfect because of his work rate.

Still reckon things will pick up, someone's gotta have a run of form soon.

[mrfahaji]

Here we go again, Cuco bashing for the sake of it. He put in half a dozen excellent crosses. The taters here on NBC said as much and were puzzled why he was taken off. Our attacking threat from the right disappeared when he went off.

 

Give credit to Stoke, they defended well. We would've won with a decent front man. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I think we need to bring in a quality striker.

 

Martina got into decent positions and delivered some decent balls but his problem is that he doesn't do anything quickly. I'm not talking about hoofing it forward at the first opportunity, but sometimes you have to put in a cross as soon as the chance presents itself, otherwise the defence gets in position and the forwards are static. As the commentators pointed out, Martina put lots of balls into dangerous areas, but once the defence are well positioned the ball has to be inch perfect to pick out a striker, not just 'decent'.

 

Martina is supposedly third choice, and for that he seems to do ok. But it is frustrating when you can see the ball needs to be delivered and he takes a touch, cuts back, looks up, takes another touch... and then delivers.

 

I don't think we stretched Stoke defensively if I'm honest. There's been plenty of games (e.g. 1-1 Stoke at home, Odemwingie scored for them a couple of seasons ago) where we've put the other team under the cosh and you have to give them credit for defending well, but I didn't feel they had pull out anything out of the ordinary to keep a clean sheet.