The *new* striker debate thread

[Suhari]

I'll take giroud instead then

 

Would have interesting possibilities.

[the saint in winchester]

So let's see who the odd man out at Arsenal is, and ask to have him on loan. That could be any of Welbeck, Iwobi, Giroud, Perez ..... doubt it will be Sanchez somehow. Someone needs to throw a strop soon and be told to find himself another club! We will be there in the car park waiting ...

[the french scout]

If I were playing Football Manager with the Saints, I would try tu recruit one or two of these guys this winter :

 

- Paul Georges Ntep, young french international, more of a winger who can score than a striker, but free atthe end of the season and available for abour 5M this winter

- Rachid Ghezzal, young algerian international, and exactly the same profile and contract situation as Ntep

- Mitshuy Batshuayi on loan, who is a solid striker prospect and doesn't play at all at Chelsea

- Mevlut Erdinç, Giovanni Sio or Enzo Crivelli could be cheap gambles too.

 

(sorry for the broken english)

[Saint_clark]

I'd like to see us make a real statement here. We've made big money signings from abroad but they were still relative gambles or unknowns - there's a chance here to go out and buy a proven goalscorer in the English game. My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

[CB Fry]

My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

 

Nothing says "Champions League here we come" like signing one of those three. We'd better get in quick before Arsenal and Man United snap em up.

[Cartman]

I'd like to see us make a real statement here. We've made big money signings from abroad but they were still relative gambles or unknowns - there's a chance here to go out and buy a proven goalscorer in the English game. My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

 

Kick on to where? Those three are your idea of a statement of intent? And why should we pay more for the sake of having a player who is "premier league proven", it will still be a gamble anyway, all signings are as they won't be "Southampton proven".

There is far more value in buying abroad, that is why we do it.

[doddisalegend]

I'd like to see us make a real statement here. We've made big money signings from abroad but they were still relative gambles or unknowns - there's a chance here to go out and buy a proven goalscorer in the English game. My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

 

Why would any of their current teams sell them in Jan?

 

Westbrom are doing well and no doubt don't want to sell their star striker to de-rail that, Newcastle are on a promotion push in which Gayle is an important part and Boro are toothless without Negredo and will need his goals to avoid relegation. We would have to throw horrendous amounts of cash at any of those three (far more than they are worth) to get one of those players.

[View From The Top]

I'd like to see us make a real statement here. We've made big money signings from abroad but they were still relative gambles or unknowns - there's a chance here to go out and buy a proven goalscorer in the English game. My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

 

As if their clubs would sell them and anyway. I see no "kick on" with those, simply desperation.

[S-Clarke]

Negredo is also only on loan at boro.

[Avenue_Saint]

Do you put a s****y new kitchen in when you're trying to sell your house? Can't see liebher splashing serious money in jan

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Do you put a s****y new kitchen in when you're trying to sell your house? Can't see liebher splashing serious money in jan

 

yea but worth throwing a few million at a quality loan player whose goals can earn millions in final league placings. Austin has to be replaced, today was good but if we are to stand any chance v Liverpool we still need a lot more up front an,d don't forget we will be without Boufal which already looks like a big loss.

[Convict Colony]

If I were playing Football Manager with the Saints, I would try tu recruit one or two of these guys this winter :

 

- Paul Georges Ntep, young french international, more of a winger who can score than a striker, but free atthe end of the season and available for abour 5M this winter

- Rachid Ghezzal, young algerian international, and exactly the same profile and contract situation as Ntep

- Mitshuy Batshuayi on loan, who is a solid striker prospect and doesn't play at all at Chelsea

- Mevlut Erdinç, Giovanni Sio or Enzo Crivelli could be cheap gambles too.

 

(sorry for the broken english)

 

I was researching Ntep today, he looks decent

[the french scout]

I was researching Ntep today, he looks decent

 

He's really good. Well, he suffered a lot of injuries last season and struggled to be back to his best but general opinion in France is that he is way better than Boufal, for instance.

Rennes' president actually wants 7M€ now to sell him leave this winter.

It's obviously a bargain since his contact expires at the end at the season.

[SuperSAINT]

I was researching Ntep today, he looks decent

 

Wonder if the fact he can play as a winger might tempt us as Boufal is off to the AFCON.

[Dusic]

So, what type of striker do we need? First and foremost someone who can finish.

 

But its is apparant that we have zero physical presence up front. Someone with a bit of power who can hold the ball up would be nice.

[danjosaint]

Wonder if the fact he can play as a winger might tempt us as Boufal is off to the AFCON.

 

Too late already signed for wolfsburg, apparently it's Valere Germain we're after

[Manuel]

Too late already signed for wolfsburg, apparently it's Valere Germain we're after

A 5"9 striker. Not right for our game of endless crosses.

[Shroppie]

I'm hoping the rumours of us being interested in Daniel Sturridge are true. If he stays fit he'd be the class of forward we've needed since we came up and established ourselves.

No thank you. Overrated.

 

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[Gunnery]

Aubamayang!!!! Break the bank Les ffs ........no? Ok, Berahino then, he would come to us no bother, I'm sure of it! If we're not in the chase for him then I don't know what the fook is going on.

[Gunnery]

No thank you. Overrated.

 

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Overrated my arse, he's one of the most natural English goal scorers there is! That's why he will go to a bigger club than us.

[Heisenberg]

Overrated my arse, he's one of the most natural English goal scorers there is! That's why he will go to a bigger club than us.

 

Agreed. 45 goals in 81 games for Liverpool

 

He would be an amazing signing - but wont happen

[Shance]

No thank you. Overrated.

 

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Lol. He's one of the most naturally gifted finishers in the league and when fully fit is a nightmare to mark. He'd be an outstanding signing for us!

[Patrick Bateman]

No thank you. Overrated.

 

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FFS

[SuperSAINT]

Lol. He's one of the most naturally gifted finishers in the league and when fully fit is a nightmare to mark. He'd be an outstanding signing for us!

 

Sturridge, on form, is a fantastic player.

 

He would likely be £30m+ though.

 

More of a West Ham signing than us IMO.

[Ultimatt]

A target man.

 

Someone in the mold of Ibra, Costa, Giroud, Benteke, Carroll, Slimani, Kiessling, Pelle

 

Even Crouch would improve us right now.

 

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[Pilchards]

Sturridge, on form, is a fantastic player.

 

He would likely be £30m+ though.

 

More of a West Ham signing than us IMO.

 

Totally agree but he would become frustrated on the amount of times he will play here.

[Saint Fen]

I'm not sure a new striker will make a difference. The fact is we don't get people forward to score enough goals. Yes a goalscorer would be a massive help but I don't think it is the answer to our problems.

[Ultimatt]

Totally agree but he would become frustrated on the amount of times he will play here.

 

Injured half the time and then plays only half the time when fit so 9 or 10 premier league games a season

[shurlock]

I'm not sure a new striker will make a difference. The fact is we don't get people forward to score enough goals. Yes a goalscorer would be a massive help but I don't think it is the answer to our problems.

 

True, though a striker with decent hold-up play would give players more time to get forward and support attacks.

[WALK DMC]

I'm not sure a new striker will make a difference. The fact is we don't get people forward to score enough goals. Yes a goalscorer would be a massive help but I don't think it is the answer to our problems.

 

This to me is the big issue. We have very experienced premier league standard players such as Tadic and Long and they're not contributing goals or assists as they previously were. The possible reasons ? they're not good enough (and last season and before was a fluke), we're not playing them to their strengths and/or rotating too much, the system 4-3-3 is not working as our midfield players don't get forward to support them, Pelle and Mane are much better than the replacements Pelle/Austin and Mane/Boufal and Redmond.

 

Personally I do not believe that we'll be able to get a Mane quality player in January to make a significant upgrade. Why not change the system to 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2 ? At least we can get more forward players supporting the attack. Koeman changed the system last year and got great results, why can't we try something new ? We have tied the diamond (briefly), but since then 4-3-3, we can't score why not change the bloody system. What's that definition of madness ? Trying the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result. That is when we are today.

 

Buying a new forward in January to me is wasting money without trying all our options. While I don't think that our replacements are as good as the originals we have a much better quality of player than many are giving credit. We need to try a different system and Puel needs to get motivating the team so they believe in his methods.

 

I am not a Puel out man, at least not yet. But he has to demonstrate his qualities in the next few months otherwise I'd rather our next manager spends what ever limited budget we have in the summer.

[SaintBitterne]

I'm not sure a new striker will make a difference. The fact is we don't get people forward to score enough goals. Yes a goalscorer would be a massive help but I don't think it is the answer to our problems.

 

I think the fact we had 20 shots yesterday with only 5 on target would suggest a striker would be a good idea

[WALK DMC]

I think the fact we had 20 shots yesterday with only 5 on target would suggest a striker would be a good idea

 

As I suggested in my earlier post, a new striker would help, but ...... there have been many many matches this year (e.g WBA, Everton, Stoke) where it was also the paucity of clear cut chances that contributed to our inability to score. I just have a horrible feeling that a new striker (who won't be top top class) in Jan will just be rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic there are other fundemental issues to address.

[Pilchards]

When you think about the goals we are not scoring anymore then you can see why we are struggling.

Those Mane ones where he outpaces the last defender as slots it in the bottom corner (too many of his like that to mention)

Then you have those great powerful headers from Pele plus the swivel/turn and bang out of the keepers reach.

 

Jayrod has managed it just once at Bournemouth while Long has not done it once all season.

The only two strikers goals we have scored other than Boufals vs Sunderland and Boro is Bertrand and Jayrod in the Bournemouth game.

 

We fluff far too many chances as they are not clinical and composed anymore.

[Jackie@home]

This to me is the big issue. We have very experienced premier league standard players such as Tadic and Long and they're not contributing goals or assists as they previously were. The possible reasons ? they're not good enough (and last season and before was a fluke), we're not playing them to their strengths and/or rotating too much, the system 4-3-3 is not working as our midfield players don't get forward to support them, Pelle and Mane are much better than the replacements Pelle/Austin and Mane/Boufal and Redmond.

 

Personally I do not believe that we'll be able to get a Mane quality player in January to make a significant upgrade. Why not change the system to 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2 ? At least we can get more forward players supporting the attack. Koeman changed the system last year and got great results, why can't we try something new ? We have tied the diamond (briefly), but since then 4-3-3, we can't score why not change the bloody system. What's that definition of madness ? Trying the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result. That is when we are today.

 

Buying a new forward in January to me is wasting money without trying all our options. While I don't think that our replacements are as good as the originals we have a much better quality of player than many are giving credit. We need to try a different system and Puel needs to get motivating the team so they believe in his methods.

 

I am not a Puel out man, at least not yet. But he has to demonstrate his qualities in the next few months otherwise I'd rather our next manager spends what ever limited budget we have in the summer.

Agree. If you look at Tadic's stats at international level, he's been scoring and assisting in nearly every game he's played, and is the Serbian player of the year. Puel is not getting the best out of his abilities. We are not regularly being dominated and overrun in midfield and usually have the majority of possession, so we can take more of a chance against the weaker sides and play Long and JRod up front together. How about home to Norwich in the cup? Can't understand why he is so negative. At least try something different, as we can all see the difference between the same players from last season and this.

[Saint Fen]

True, though a striker with decent hold-up play would give players more time to get forward and support attacks.

 

Agree but we don't get forward to support. How isolated would Pelle look in this team. Rodriguez chases everything down but has no chance as he is usually surrounded by defenders. Look at the Tottenham game after 20 minutes.

 

We have a goal scorer who is injury prone but was always isolated when playing and drifting too deep and wide.

[Fabrice29]

I think part of the problem with midfielders not getting in the box and assisting CAN go back to not having a good enough striker. A lot of the problems with us passing sideways etc is because we don't have a striker imposing enough to be able to get in the game. If we had a striker who gets involved in the game it would allow midfielders to get close to him and assists and goals will come. At the moment everytime our players get the ball, we're almost playing with 10 men. Yesterday and the Spurs game are classic examples. I'll take Spurs first. Against Spurs we were under so much pressure, we were absoloutely desperate for our striker to hold up the ball, win free kicks and/or bring others into the game. Everytime we cleared the ball or got hold of it, we'd lose it in 2 passes because Rodriguez was so non existent. He was better Vs Liverpool and got an assist and we created better chances. Yesterday everytime the ball goes to Long, he'd lose it. We're missing Pelle massively, although he wouldn't suit our system now, he would be capable of bringing others into the game and allowing the midfielders to get close to him and beyond. Right now the ball goes forward and before anyone can get up with it, it's back again. Liverpool and Bournemouth have been the two times our striker has actually performed recently (Without Austin) and they meant we got wins.

 

A dynamic powerful striker is a must. It'll relieve pressure on the rest of the team, it'll make us less easy to defend against, it'll allow midfielders to get further up the field and it'll mean in dominant periods of games we can score goals and take games away from teams.

[Dark Munster]

I think part of the problem with midfielders not getting in the box and assisting CAN go back to not having a good enough striker. A lot of the problems with us passing sideways etc is because we don't have a striker imposing enough to be able to get in the game. If we had a striker who gets involved in the game it would allow midfielders to get close to him and assists and goals will come. At the moment everytime our players get the ball, we're almost playing with 10 men. Yesterday and the Spurs game are classic examples. I'll take Spurs first. Against Spurs we were under so much pressure, we were absoloutely desperate for our striker to hold up the ball, win free kicks and/or bring others into the game. Everytime we cleared the ball or got hold of it, we'd lose it in 2 passes because Rodriguez was so non existent. He was better Vs Liverpool and got an assist and we created better chances. Yesterday everytime the ball goes to Long, he'd lose it. We're missing Pelle massively, although he wouldn't suit our system now, he would be capable of bringing others into the game and allowing the midfielders to get close to him and beyond. Right now the ball goes forward and before anyone can get up with it, it's back again. Liverpool and Bournemouth have been the two times our striker has actually performed recently (Without Austin) and they meant we got wins.

 

A dynamic powerful striker is a must. It'll relieve pressure on the rest of the team, it'll make us less easy to defend against, it'll allow midfielders to get further up the field and it'll mean in dominant periods of games we can score goals and take games away from teams.

Agreed, top post. Comparing Long, Tadic, etc. this season to last is ludicrous, since Mane and Pelle gone makes a huge difference to the whole team. And don't get me started on someone comparing Tadic's performances for Serbia compared to his ones for us. Completely different teammates FFS.

 

A quality striker will lift the whole team. If Mane and Pelle were still here, and we were getting the same results as we are this season, then it would be fair to criticise Puel. But until the club brings in the players we clearly need it's unfair to compare him (or our current players) with last year.

[Manuel]

Watching the Manure game today as the father in law likes them. Failing to score for most of the game, in the end they put the giants Fellani and Ibrahimovic in the box and chucked crosses in until they headed in. Basic goal scoring.

[Convict Colony]

Some stats:

 

Over the last 9 league games we have had 111 shots, scored 5 goals (3 v Bournemouth) which means we are averaging 12.3 shots per game and have a shot to goal conversion rate of 4.5%

 

Based on those 9 games then we needed to take 22 shots before we scored a goal !!!

 

 

 

If we scored in every game we would at least have 9 goals and a conversion rate of 8.1%

Edited 16 January, 2017 by Convict Colony

[Dark Munster]

Some stats:

 

Over the last 9 league games we have had 111 shots, scored 5 goals (3 v Bournemouth) which means we are averaging 12.3 shots per game and have a shot to goal conversion rate of 4.5%

 

Based on those 9 games then we needed to take 22 shots before we scored a goal !!!

 

 

 

If we scored in every game we would at least have 9 goals and a conversion rate of 8.1%

Compare that to the conversion rate against us. It seems to be close to 100% recently.

[petts]

We are really missing a mobile physical striker at the moment, if jrod comes good or shlong/sims find form we are going to go on a good run, but common sense says we should buy another of this remit in the window even if it's from a lesser known league... Let's hope it happens

 

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[mrfahaji]

Agreed, top post. Comparing Long, Tadic, etc. this season to last is ludicrous, since Mane and Pelle gone makes a huge difference to the whole team. And don't get me started on someone comparing Tadic's performances for Serbia compared to his ones for us. Completely different teammates FFS.

 

A quality striker will lift the whole team. If Mane and Pelle were still here, and we were getting the same results as we are this season, then it would be fair to criticise Puel. But until the club brings in the players we clearly need it's unfair to compare him (or our current players) with last year.

 

Also agree that it was an excellent post from Fabrice29. I think you're being a bit harsh on Jackie@home though, isn't their point exactly that? Tadic is playing with a completely different set of players and is playing really well, so it's not like he's just turned into a rubbish player, it's that the team set up, tactics or quality of team mates is not suiting him. (Of course, you could argue that his form was decent up until he got injured for Serbia, and therefore he hasn't had chance to be cr@p for them yet...!)

[Alanh]

Of course strikers are out there who can do a job, but this article from the Guardian on West Ham having bought 32 strikers in the last 7 years demonstrates it's not that easy to find the right ones.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/jan/17/west-ham-strikers-david-sullivan-gold-simone-zaza-scott-hogan

[Mallagroth]

Of course strikers are out there who can do a job, but this article from the Guardian on West Ham having bought 32 strikers in the last 7 years demonstrates it's not that easy to find the right ones.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/jan/17/west-ham-strikers-david-sullivan-gold-simone-zaza-scott-hogan

 

Cheers for link. Although West Hams transfer policy has been darts in the dark for years though, their scouting and recruitment section isn't on a par with our own in terms of track record.

[Alanh]

Cheers for link. Although West Hams transfer policy has been darts in the dark for years though, their scouting and recruitment section isn't on a par with our own in terms of track record.

 

Yes, I should probably have said, that West Ham have consistently demonstrated how easy it is to find the wrong striker!

[Saint86]

We are really missing a mobile physical striker at the moment, if jrod comes good or shlong/sims find form we are going to go on a good run, but common sense says we should buy another of this remit in the window even if it's from a lesser known league... Let's hope it happens

 

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We loaned one to Blackburn.

[Monk]

Calum Wilson?

[disconnect]

Calum Wilson?

 

If Wilson was available (unlikely, especially for the price we'd want to pay) he'd be a good shout for sure.

[Gunnery]

I'd like to see us make a real statement here. We've made big money signings from abroad but they were still relative gambles or unknowns - there's a chance here to go out and buy a proven goalscorer in the English game. My top 3 would be Rondon, Negredo and Gayle. Any of those three would be a sign of intent to kick on in my opinion.

LMFAO!! Where's your ambition ffs !!?

[View From The Top]

LMFAO!! Where's your ambition ffs !!?

 

You have to accept that a large portion of our fanbase are utter morons. I've honestly flushed away higher IQs.

 

I love the way people think that there is no way we should sell VvD (or anyone) in Jan' but expect WBA to roll over and sell us Rondon or Boro to roll over and sell us Negredo of Newcastle to risk promotion by selling us Gayle.

 

I've even read how we should be getting Dzeko. It was written without a single thought passing through the persons brain as to why a team still in the UCL, one of the biggest clubs in Italy, would sell us, a middle sized English, their leading goal scorer.

 

There is no top draw striker available in Jan'. No club is going to sell their best player in Jan' so we either crack on with what we have or we pay well over the odds for no better than we have unless the club pull off one hell of a coup or know of another diamond hiding away like Mane but I somehow doubt it.