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Puel out

Lastman73

By Lastman73,
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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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Posted
I really hope this is the case. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to players if we don't have to and we should be backing a manager who has clearly been left a little short this season. We've got some good potential players in our team and we need to give them time to mature, we'll see better next season and the manager we chose last year to guide that maturity doesn't become the wrong man because of a mid table finish and a cup final defeat. Lets back him. The summer is going to be painful on this board though.

 

Care to elaborate?

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Shance

Shance

Posted
Posted
Had a quick look on the Saint Etienne forum to see what's happening at their end. Interesting post on there (have no idea if this guy is ITK or not):

 

"Tuchel will sign at Southampon, both sides agree.

Puel has already said yes to Sainté (Saint Etienne), it's a matter of hours but behind the scenes it's already all done, Puel must even be starting the transfer window.

99.99% chance that he signed this morning with us, Tuchel's negos (negotiations) yesterday were productive for Southampon and ASSE."

 

I just can't see Tuchel coming to us and there is no noise on it this end, which is odd. Not getting my hopes up but i'd love him to be our next manager!

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

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What's mental is hearing and seeing evidence, and ignoring it because it doesn't match your opinion. I'm resigned to agreeing we didn't score enough home league goals, I'm not even close to thinking we didn't create enough chances.

 

We were a million miles from getting a win against any of the top six...in those 12 games we created very little..and you think we will be challenging them next season?

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The9

The9

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I don't believe we struggled to score all season because we were tired.

 

Not JUST because we were tired, but definitely a contributory factor.

 

"the slower average speed during the RSA test observed after the Stroop task is also consistent with the hypothesis that mental fatigue has a negative effect on physical performance in football players" https://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Medical/02/20/41/86/2204186_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

And that's just mental fatigue, never mind the physical stuff: "The primary finding was that fatigue induced by a soccer match simulation (SMS),

which included ball skills throughout exercise, caused a reduction in passing and shooting performances during the second half" https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/5901201.pdf

 

But then anyone knows that playing a lot of football without enough recovery time will have an effect on performance and results, right?

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The9

The9

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We were a million miles from getting a win against any of the top six...in those 12 games we created very little..and you think we will be challenging them next season?

 

Well, apart from the win at Anfield in the EFL Cup, the win at home in the first leg in the EFL Cup, the close run thing at Wembley, and the draw at Man City...

 

Short answer, if we keep a decent core of these players, yes.

 

Looking purely at the number of games likely teams will play, most of them will be worse and we'll be better. We don't have enough money to buy two full teams of top players to compete with the top 6 at the top of their game, but we without a run of injuries and with enough recovery time we can use a first XI that's good enough to challenge top 6 sides that are focused on other competitions. It'll still be tough, but like this season, some of it will depend on our luck with scheduling - if we get top 6 sides immediately after European away games that can only help us next season, just like it helped Saints' opponents this.

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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

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Posted
We were a million miles from getting a win against any of the top six...in those 12 games we created very little..and you think we will be challenging them next season?

 

We missed a penalty at home v Man Utd by inches, not by a million miles.....HTH

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Max

Max

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Not JUST because we were tired, but definitely a contributory factor.

 

"the slower average speed during the RSA test observed after the Stroop task is also consistent with the hypothesis that mental fatigue has a negative effect on physical performance in football players" https://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Medical/02/20/41/86/2204186_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

And that's just mental fatigue, never mind the physical stuff: "The primary finding was that fatigue induced by a soccer match simulation (SMS),

which included ball skills throughout exercise, caused a reduction in passing and shooting performances during the second half" https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/5901201.pdf

 

But then anyone knows that playing a lot of football without enough recovery time will have an effect on performance and results, right?

 

Whilst I agree with that, players like Long, Romeu, Ray Houghton, Kante, Cafu, and numerous others would suggest that stamina and the hard work put in to improve it has a part to play. Many players could work harder.

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

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Posted
Well, apart from the win at Anfield in the EFL Cup, the win at home in the first leg in the EFL Cup, the close run thing at Wembley, and the draw at Man City...

 

Short answer, if we keep a decent core of these players, yes.

 

Looking purely at the number of games likely teams will play, most of them will be worse and we'll be better. We don't have enough money to buy two full teams of top players to compete with the top 6 at the top of their game, but we without a run of injuries and with enough recovery time we can use a first XI that's good enough to challenge top 6 sides that are focused on other competitions. It'll still be tough, but like this season, some of it will depend on our luck with scheduling - if we get top 6 sides immediately after European away games that can only help us next season, just like it helped Saints' opponents this.

 

You live in a fantasy world.

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

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We missed a penalty at home v Man Utd by inches, not by a million miles.....HTH

 

They weren't even trying that day...we were a penalty miss away from losing at home to Bournemouth, that doesn't make them better than us?

There was a massive gulf between us and the top six when we played them..I wonder if the 9 can produce the shots stats for those 12 games?

We stopped Liverpool Lscoring 4 times but at no point did we dominate them..they missed chances and a penalty. TBF it was effective against them and Puel should get credit but playing like the isn't a long term strategy for getting into the top 6 no matter how the 9 dreams it is.

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ex-manchester-united-boss-louis-10553433

 

Don't think replacing sideways football with sideways football would go down well....

 

A big solid F^CK OFF to that idea.

 

Perhaps this is the start of the Les media spin so that when we start next season with no change many will conclude "at least we escaped the prospect of LVG"

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

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Posted
Well, apart from the win at Anfield in the EFL Cup, the win at home in the first leg in the EFL Cup, the close run thing at Wembley, and the draw at Man City...

 

Short answer, if we keep a decent core of these players, yes.

 

Looking purely at the number of games likely teams will play, most of them will be worse and we'll be better. We don't have enough money to buy two full teams of top players to compete with the top 6 at the top of their game, but we without a run of injuries and with enough recovery time we can use a first XI that's good enough to challenge top 6 sides that are focused on other competitions. It'll still be tough, but like this season, some of it will depend on our luck with scheduling - if we get top 6 sides immediately after European away games that can only help us next season, just like it helped Saints' opponents this.

 

Just had a look..despite the draw at City we only had THREE shots on target against them in the two games...against Liverpool in the league at home we didn't have a shot on target..against Chelsea at home we didn't have a shot on target..if you want to talk penalties..Spurs were a penalty miss away from scoring five against us....you were right, I was wrong actually we were a billion miles away from the top six when we played them...despite the few examples you have given.

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Mikey88

Mikey88

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Posted
A big solid F^CK OFF to that idea.

 

Perhaps this is the start of the Les media spin so that when we start next season with no change many will conclude "at least we escaped the prospect of LVG"

 

Would we really not take Van Gaal? A manager who has won league titles in 3 different countries, taken Netherlands to 3rd in the World Cup and won the FA cup in his last season in England. Christ some of our fans need to wake up and realise who they support!

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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

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Posted
Would we really not take Van Gaal? A manager who has won league titles in 3 different countries, taken Netherlands to 3rd in the World Cup and won the FA cup in his last season in England. Christ some of our fans need to wake up and realise who they support!

 

This - we have some very deluded fans..

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Posted
Would we really not take Van Gaal? A manager who has won league titles in 3 different countries, taken Netherlands to 3rd in the World Cup and won the FA cup in his last season in England. Christ some of our fans need to wake up and realise who they support!

 

I wouldn't be over the moon with the appointment but i'd recognise he'll probably do well. However I wouldn't go regularly if he was manager...results with boring style isn't worth the money, I can still enjoy the result at home.

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saints-til-i-die

saints-til-i-die

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Posted

Re-read Les Reed's January comments about Puel. He talks about him being a 'teacher' and teaching 'takes time'. He also said in a previous interview that when they appoint managers they tell them they'll get time and support and not need to be 'looking over their shoulder'.

 

All this would seem to indicate that he is likely staying.

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Saints foreva

Saints foreva

Posted
Posted
Re-read Les Reed's January comments about Puel. He talks about him being a 'teacher' and teaching 'takes time'. He also said in a previous interview that when they appoint managers they tell them they'll get time and support and not need to be 'looking over their shoulder'.

 

All this would seem to indicate that he is likely staying.

 

We might managed 18 goals at home next season then.

 

#WeMarchOn

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kermitsaint

kermitsaint

Posted
Posted
It's not supposed to be accurate enough to account for all the variables, it's supposed to indicate if the specific end chance itself is likely to result in a goal or not. That's as straightforward a metric as you're going to get from football. It also correlates well with the stats for chances, goals, successful teams and their final league positions, and reflects evident general trends (like Saints scoring far fewer goals from the same numbers of chances as Arsenal, for instance). That's good enough for the point I'm making about us not being poor at creating chances, just scoring.

 

The other change next season will be the lack of effect of fatigue.... I may as well bust out that Saints ran the least distance of any team in any single Prem game this season as well, whilst Man U who are (probably) the only Premier League team to have played more games than Saints this season, ran the least of any team in the entire division.

 

And with the overall impact of the Europa League... here's a research paper which covers the 10 years from 2001-2011 and says that "teams playing on Sunday following a Thursday night Europa League match were 0.41 points per game worse off." "The study also focused upon 71,251 goals and when they were scored during games. In parallel

with winning less and losing more after just two recovery days, teams scored 0.52 fewer goals per game, scored 0.3 goals less in the final third and conceded 0.45 more goals than average in the final half hour".

http://worldfootballacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/WFA_Study-on-recovery-days.pdf.

 

So the combination of improved returns from our created chances and the likely reduction in the number of times Saints have to play tired next season makes me think we'll do better in terms of League points "even if" Puel stays in charge. Reason for optimism.

 

FWIW if there's something we might improve on, it's taking shots from closer in - this season we've been shooting from further out overall than in most recent seasons. That and Arsenal's shot distances probably explains why they score more from the same number of chances as us, and why they're expected to.

2rod3cje-1.jpg?w=657.

You can quote every statistic you like but our form didn't improve even after we wimped out of Europe etc .

 

Even when we had two weeks between games we looked tired .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
Had a quick look on the Saint Etienne forum to see what's happening at their end. Interesting post on there (have no idea if this guy is ITK or not):

 

"Tuchel will sign at Southampon, both sides agree.

Puel has already said yes to Sainté (Saint Etienne), it's a matter of hours but behind the scenes it's already all done, Puel must even be starting the transfer window.

99.99% chance that he signed this morning with us, Tuchel's negos (negotiations) yesterday were productive for Southampon and ASSE."

 

giphy.gif

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
LR: Sorry Louis, your cv is more impressive than any manager to ever go near us, but Man U kicked the ball sideways too much that season you were in charge so we decided to go with Gary Monk instead.

A million times this.

 

If only LVG had James Beattie as his assistant this forum would be all over it.

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JibMcdo

JibMcdo

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Posted

I think the faults of this season lie firmly with last summer's recruitment. Redmond, Hojberg and Boufal are not the level of player we should be recruiting if the ambitions are to be on the coat tails of the top 6. I realise they are young, but if that's the case proven quality should be brought in alongside them. The club must have known Fonte was off before the end of the season and a failure to replace him was poor. The jury's out on Gabbi, after a great start he has shown himself to lack pace and be extremely one footed.

 

Pochettino and Koeman very much relied on their best players being available. Puel has had to put up with what is frankly a Championship pairing at centre half for half a season. If Koeman had those two at centre back, Steven Davis as one of a two in midfield and Redmond as our source of goals and assists, you can be sure he'd have been ****ing and moaning and we'd have been shipping goals left, right and centre and not scoring either. I really do think Redmond is one dimensional and blinkered. If I was Puel, I too would have set up a rigid system with a lack of freedom so we didn't concede 3 a game (which we were when Stephens was initially introduced).

 

This transfer window just has to be an improvement. We buy young, yes, but previously they were proven players and last summer we took too many gambles and every one back fired. I'm happy for Puel to remain in charge but he must be backed in the window.

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Saint86

Saint86

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Posted
I think the faults of this season lie firmly with last summer's recruitment. Redmond, Hojberg and Boufal are not the level of player we should be recruiting if the ambitions are to be on the coat tails of the top 6. I realise they are young, but if that's the case proven quality should be brought in alongside them. The club must have known Fonte was off before the end of the season and a failure to replace him was poor. The jury's out on Gabbi, after a great start he has shown himself to lack pace and be extremely one footed.

 

Pochettino and Koeman very much relied on their best players being available. Puel has had to put up with what is frankly a Championship pairing at centre half for half a season. If Koeman had those two at centre back, Steven Davis as one of a two in midfield and Redmond as our source of goals and assists, you can be sure he'd have been ****ing and moaning and we'd have been shipping goals left, right and centre and not scoring either. I really do think Redmond is one dimensional and blinkered. If I was Puel, I too would have set up a rigid system with a lack of freedom so we didn't concede 3 a game (which we were when Stephens was initially introduced).

 

This transfer window just has to be an improvement. We buy young, yes, but previously they were proven players and last summer we took too many gambles and every one back fired. I'm happy for Puel to remain in charge but he must be backed in the window.

 

Redmond and boufal are going to be class players. Boufal in particular has the best control I've seen at saints in many a year; he just needs to get a run of games and should clearly be ahead of tadic in the line up. PEH also has great potential and just needs games. Really do not get our fans, but perhaps being written off early is good in the long run... Just look at the numpties who wrote off Morgan and mane.

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jasoneuelllfanclub

jasoneuelllfanclub

Posted
Posted
I think the faults of this season lie firmly with last summer's recruitment. Redmond, Hojberg and Boufal are not the level of player we should be recruiting if the ambitions are to be on the coat tails of the top 6. I realise they are young, but if that's the case proven quality should be brought in alongside them. The club must have known Fonte was off before the end of the season and a failure to replace him was poor. The jury's out on Gabbi, after a great start he has shown himself to lack pace and be extremely one footed.

 

Pochettino and Koeman very much relied on their best players being available. Puel has had to put up with what is frankly a Championship pairing at centre half for half a season. If Koeman had those two at centre back, Steven Davis as one of a two in midfield and Redmond as our source of goals and assists, you can be sure he'd have been ****ing and moaning and we'd have been shipping goals left, right and centre and not scoring either. I really do think Redmond is one dimensional and blinkered. If I was Puel, I too would have set up a rigid system with a lack of freedom so we didn't concede 3 a game (which we were when Stephens was initially introduced).

 

This transfer window just has to be an improvement. We buy young, yes, but previously they were proven players and last summer we took too many gambles and every one back fired. I'm happy for Puel to remain in charge but he must be backed in the window.

Some good points but I have to disagree on point about Gabbiadini. he was starved of decent service when he came back from injury. Prior to his injury team was playing well and looked dynamic but for some reason puel put the brakes on the fluidity of our attacks once he got injured and subsequent return. I agree PEH was poor. Gives the ball away a lot. Boufal has talent but our rigid set up and negative tactics essentially had him in a straight jacket. He needs to be main creative outlet in central position not stuck out wide and being asked to track back.

 

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
Redmond and boufal are going to be class players. Boufal in particular has the best control I've seen at saints in many a year; he just needs to get a run of games and should clearly be ahead of tadic in the line up. PEH also has great potential and just needs games. Really do not get our fans, but perhaps being written off early is good in the long run... Just look at the numpties who wrote off Morgan and Mane.

 

I still think there's an argument to be made that Wotton & Dia are better players ;)

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Redmond and boufal are going to be class players. Boufal in particular has the best control I've seen at saints in many a year; he just needs to get a run of games and should clearly be ahead of tadic in the line up. PEH also has great potential and just needs games. Really do not get our fans, but perhaps being written off early is good in the long run... Just look at the numpties who wrote off Morgan and mane.

 

How about those who wrote off Clasie and were pilloried because of it?

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
Jermaine Wright is our best of all time.

 

Wright wasn't that bad when he played in his actual position of CM. Not great by any means but we've seen worse. Wright's criticism usually came from Burley's bizarre obsession with playing him anywhere he possibly could.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

I still find it hard to believe its taking this long. At the end of the day its, surely, pretty much Les's decision (I'm pretty sure the Ralph and Kat will just go along with his opinion on footballing matters) he must have known for a while whether he wanted Puel to stay on or not.

 

Edited by doddisalegend
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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
I still find it hard to believe its taking this long. At the end of the day its, surely, pretty much Les's decision (I'm pretty sure the Ralph and Kat will just go along with his opinion on footballing matters) he must have known for a while whether he wanted Puel to stay on or not.

 

unless he has all but gone but we are holding off as to not 'sack' him and allow him to move clubs

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
unless he has all but gone but we are holding off as to not 'sack' him and allow him to move clubs

 

Seems unnecessary reckon Les would be more popular with the baying masses if he'd sacked him before the last game of the season like Watford did with Walter Mazzarri

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
I still find it hard to believe its taking this long. At the end of the day its, surely, pretty much Les's decision (I'm pretty sure the Ralph and Kat will just go along with his opinion on footballing matters) he must have known for a while whether he wanted Puel to stay on or not.

 

I thought one of the criticisms of Uncle Les is that he's a ditherer? This is virgin territory for him as previous management decisions have been forced on the club.

Edited by shurlock
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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted
No idea if this has any credence at all: http://diablevert.fr/ce-devrait-etre-puel/

Quite possibly does. Its clear he is leaving here and the delay in announcing would make sense as works well for all parties if he joins another club.

 

A few posters on the St Etienne forum link also seems rather sure its Puel and will be announced soon.

 

Just need Les and Willo to make a better choice this time around.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
Quite possibly does. Its clear he is leaving here and the delay in announcing would make sense as works well for all parties if he joins another club.

 

A few posters on the St Etienne forum link also seems rather sure its Puel and will be announced soon.

 

Just need Les and Willo to make a better choice this time around.

 

Any idea what the "June 26th" thing on the link is about?

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