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Puel out

Lastman73

By Lastman73,
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The9

The9

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Posted

Also, if you want an illustration of our problem in front of goal this season:

 

https://public.tableau.com/profile/paul.riley#!/vizhome/PremierLeagueShotDashboard2016-17/PLShotDashboard2016-17

 

xG (Expected goals - being a rating of likelihood of a goal being scored from the same situation as our chances this season, based on historical data). Data is a little bit out of date but valid for most of this season. Prem goals only, selected players only.

 

Gabbiadini: xG 2.674 actual open play goals scored (aG) 4

Redmond xG 5.855 aG 6

Rodriguez xG 4.302 aG 4

Austin: xG 6.089 aG 4

Long: xG 4.241 aG 3

Romeu: xG 1.762 aG 1

Van Dijk xG 2.299 aG 1

Tadic: xG 5.022 aG 2

Davis xG 2.56 aG 0

 

We've been making enough chances to be doing much better, but Gabbiadini and Redmond aside we've been below average in execution. Of course ability to execute drops off significantly with fatigue, though theres' nothing specific in the data to show WHY we've been so poor at this compared to the average.

 

It's the same at the other end too, we've conceded more than average from the shots taken.

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The9

The9

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Chelsea away is hardly a long drag. There's a big difference between the disruption of an away game and a couple of home game a few days apart. If our players can't cope with two games in a week then our fitness regime is not up to the job.

 

You can't just ignore that Hull didn't have a game the midweek before and had much more to play for either.

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The9

The9

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Conserve energy/ How long does it take to replace between games? Why haven't we had this problem in previous years?

 

Anything under 4 days is (very generally) running a risk of not being at peak performance. The effects are magnified when playing against a side which have had appropriate recovery.

 

We have had it before, but this season we've played far more games without a week's rest, plus we've been unlucky with the Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea games getting shifted to midweek due to Cup runs, ironically leaving us with way more recovery time than necessary for the 4 league matches we had in the 8 week period of February and March - two of those games we scored 4 goals in, as well as losing at Spurs.

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DT

DT

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Anything under 4 days is (very generally) running a risk of not being at peak performance. The effects are magnified when playing against a side which have had appropriate recovery.

 

We have had it before, but this season we've played far more games without a week's rest, plus we've been unlucky with the Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea games getting shifted to midweek due to Cup runs, ironically leaving us with way more recovery time than necessary for the 4 league matches we had in the 8 week period of February and March - two of those games we scored 4 goals in, as well as losing at Spurs.

 

From what i heard from a sports journalist pal, 'recovery' in almost all of these team sports is adequately, how shall I put it, supported...

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kermitsaint

kermitsaint

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Posted
You can't just ignore that Hull didn't have a game the midweek before and had much more to play for either.

This would explain why we were amazing with our energy levels during Feb when we played one game every two weeks ..

 

Oh wait ...

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

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derry

derry

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you are correct, I don't so often due to business commitments.

How can you play 3 when they have not been available? I do get the problem of the midfield, Davis is a good servant and is tidy until we go on the attack. JWP does some delightful crosses but there is ever a forward or midfielder in the box to take advantage, until Gabbiadini arrived. Do you agree had Long been more prolific earlier in the season things would have looked up? He just doesn't finish the chances he has had and so the team are frustrated and become disjointed. I watched many games last season and the football was poor but Pelle or Mane would score and gloss over a mainly possession based game all in the midfield.

We havent a squad that is any better than most in the middle of the league and that is due to constantly diluting the quality of the team

 

I think the likes of Rodriguez, Long etc have suffered through not playing regularly in an attacking system that would suit them. I think the manager is a stubborn idiot. Comparing Redmond with Thierry Henry one of the smartest footballers around, whilst trying to make him into a striker and recently describing Boufal as our Messi or Hazard was the height of stupidity and a millstone around the neck of both players.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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One of the biggest issues with Puel is rightly or wrongly he's divided the fanbase and rather than us fans being united and one (together) we are arguing and are divided.

 

Under Mopo and Koeman the fans were together as one and we need to remove Puel now to return to this strong bond.

 

The fan base united? When was that then, 'cos all I ever read on here are internecine feuds being promulgated on thread after thread ad nauseam.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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If Puel brings back the same old failed midfield/attack with the exception of Gabbiadini and plays with one isolated striker alongside Davis, Tadic and JWP on Wed and we lose he should be sacked on Thursday. It would prove he is incapable of learning any lessons and is tied to the toothless dross we have experienced at SMS all season. Clasie has played in the last two wins away scoring, Long and Rodriguez did ok without any help from the woeful Boufal, Redmond was better but Rodriguez, Long, Clasie, Hojbjerg, Pied and especially Caceres deserve another go and also see how Gabbiadini plays with Rodriguez and Long.

 

If he reverts to same old rubbish he deserves the sack. We are only 5 points above the 40 point safety mark even in 9th position on GD, that's no great performance more a reflection of the mediocrity of the teams below the top 7. Finishing 8th is no great performance we are 16 points behind 7th. A half decent home record would have us with many more points. We've only managed 6 wins in 17 games at home and only scored 8 goals in 14 of them and 17 in total. Nowhere near good enough.

 

Don't you just love a measured well balanced opinion like this. Are there any circumstances in which Claude Puel might get some credit and praise from you? We all know the answer to that so don't bother trying.

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Batman

Batman

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Have a look at the predictions thread as someone has kindly bumped the ore-season forecasts. Most fans predicted we would finish between 10th and 14th withthe odd optimist daring to think about 9th or 8th........

It is almost like we would be more than happy with pulis or fat Sam as long as we finish top 10

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Posted
Posted (edited)
Have a look at the predictions thread as someone has kindly bumped the ore-season forecasts. Most fans predicted we would finish between 10th and 14th withthe odd optimist daring to think about 9th or 8th........

 

People lowered there expectations as soon as Puel arrived.... He has simply matched peoples lowered ambitions.

 

I predicted 9th as soon as puel arrived, 45 points would have seen us finish 13th last 2 seasons so people were actually freakishly accurate about Puels (lack of) potential

 

The horrendous football style has been an unwanted bonus

Edited by Heisenberg
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Batman

Batman

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People lowered there expectations as soon as Puel arrived.... He has simply matched peoples lowered ambitions.

 

I predicted 9th as soon as puel arrived, 45 points would have seen us finish 13th last 2 seasons so people were actually freakishly accurate about Puel potential

The middle of this league is utter durge this season.

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Saints foreva

Saints foreva

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Posted

 

I like how the article tries to put a positive spin on our Europa League campaign.

 

Some fans are frustrated with the brand of play under new manager Claude Puel and inconsistent displays, despite reaching a first major final since 2003 and coming within one goal of making the Europa League knockout stages.

 

:lol:

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

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Would you have been unhappy with a cup final and top 8 at the start of the season? Did you want more than that?

 

Yes I did! I wanted us to play expansive football with effort and movement. Anyone who didn't actually go to home games might base their opinion on league position alone but a points total in the mid 40s is pretty feeble.

 

And we lost the cup final.

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ScepticalStan

ScepticalStan

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If we finish 8th it will be an extremely flattering final league position. Attached is a link to the 'long' league table (so that's a league table 'to scale' in terms of the points between the clubs).

 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/premier-league-long-table-your-sides-true-place-league

 

Also, if you look back through past seasons, whatever points tally 8th place ends up with this season will be lower (and in many cases far lower) than the points tally that has been required in most previous seasons. (60, 56, 56, 49, 52, 49, 61 and 51).

 

http://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=england

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ScepticalStan

ScepticalStan

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Oh and can we please stop going on about the League and the Cup final implying that we didn't have two other competitions this year?

 

The first being a Europa League group in which we were ODDS ON FAVOURITES to WIN, not just qualify, but WIN after the first match, and we ballsed it up without so much as a goal away from home for our travelling support.

 

The second was an FA Cup game full of kids and potential young, new, fans who came to the game as it was only a tenner, and we threw the game 0-5 (all so that we could save the first XI to get beat 2-1 away to Swansea).

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Oh and can we please stop going on about the League and the Cup final implying that we didn't have two other competitions this year?

 

The first being a Europa League group in which we were ODDS ON FAVOURITES to WIN, not just qualify, but WIN after the first match, and we ballsed it up without so much as a goal away from home for our travelling support.

 

The second was an FA Cup game full of kids and potential young, new, fans who came to the game as it was only a tenner, and we threw the game 0-5 (all so that we could save the first XI to get beat 2-1 away to Swansea).

 

I refuse to believe we were EVER odds on favourites to win the Europa League, especially not after only one game.

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Saint Albert

Saint Albert

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I refuse to believe we were EVER odds on favourites to win the Europa League, especially not after only one game.

 

I think that the post refers to the initial group, not the whole thing. To be fair, it was a weak group. The two teams that made it out barely registered in the playoff stage.

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OldNick

OldNick

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it has been obvious for the last week or so (going on Puel's pressers) that he has no idea if he will be our manager next season

Ralphy basically confirms it

 

I hope he is moved on personally

and if he does you cannot complain about who comes in
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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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I think that the post refers to the initial group, not the whole thing. To be fair, it was a weak group. The two teams that made it out barely registered in the playoff stage.

 

 

Doubt we would have done any better though had we got out of the group stages either.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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it has been obvious for the last week or so (going on Puel's pressers) that he has no idea if he will be our manager next season

Ralphy basically confirms it

 

I hope he is moved on personally

 

 

That's one interpretation. I actually think from Puel's recent press conferences he is confused why anyone is even questioning weather he will be manager next season and that he full expects to be.

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Saint Billy

Saint Billy

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Would you have been unhappy with a cup final and top 8 at the start of the season? Did you want more than that?

 

At the start of the season I would have been happy with that definitely but what a load of durge we have had to witness apart from a handful of games.

 

Had we played like we did in the Efl final and finished where we are now I would have been more than happy, but the negative football we have had to witness has been soul destroying.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

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I am going to join this debate late.

 

When the season started with our new Manager I thought I would be happy with 10-14 in the league providing we had a decent run in Europe. We failed to some extent in the European adventure but made up for it in the League Cup by reaching the final.

 

We had a loss of players in the transfer window last summer that could have made a difference and some bad injuries during the campaign. However, that has supplemented, in part, by the emergence of other fringe/young players.

 

Last season we finished 6th and that was said to be partly due to the poor form of some other clubs at the top end of the table. We are likely to finish between 8th and 11th and some are arguing that our points tally suggests we are in a false position and due to teams below us having poor form. Both are correct so we are where we are on merit.

 

I would have been happy with our finish but one thing is clear and that is we are boring at home most of the time. I do not go to away games but reports suggest we are more effective away from home that at home, entertainment wise.

 

Speaking to many of my friends they think Puel has done a decent job with the players at his disposal but do not like his brand of football and that is turning people off.

 

I am prepared to give Puel another year but only just.

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DT

DT

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Posted
I am going to join this debate late.

 

When the season started with our new Manager I thought I would be happy with 10-14 in the league providing we had a decent run in Europe. We failed to some extent in the European adventure but made up for it in the League Cup by reaching the final.

 

We had a loss of players in the transfer window last summer that could have made a difference and some bad injuries during the campaign. However, that has supplemented, in part, by the emergence of other fringe/young players.

 

Last season we finished 6th and that was said to be partly due to the poor form of some other clubs at the top end of the table. We are likely to finish between 8th and 11th and some are arguing that our points tally suggests we are in a false position and due to teams below us having poor form. Both are correct so we are where we are on merit.

 

I would have been happy with our finish but one thing is clear and that is we are boring at home most of the time. I do not go to away games but reports suggest we are more effective away from home that at home, entertainment wise.

 

Speaking to many of my friends they think Puel has done a decent job with the players at his disposal but do not like his brand of football and that is turning people off.

 

I am prepared to give Puel another year but only just.

 

Pretty fair post. I'd be keen to see who else might be available to at least inject a little enthusiasm into the place, and perhaps stop key players from sulking and leaving. Not you, Dusan.

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derry

derry

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I am going to join this debate late.

 

When the season started with our new Manager I thought I would be happy with 10-14 in the league providing we had a decent run in Europe. We failed to some extent in the European adventure but made up for it in the League Cup by reaching the final.

 

We had a loss of players in the transfer window last summer that could have made a difference and some bad injuries during the campaign. However, that has supplemented, in part, by the emergence of other fringe/young players.

 

Last season we finished 6th and that was said to be partly due to the poor form of some other clubs at the top end of the table. We are likely to finish between 8th and 11th and some are arguing that our points tally suggests we are in a false position and due to teams below us having poor form. Both are correct so we are where we are on merit.

 

I would have been happy with our finish but one thing is clear and that is we are boring at home most of the time. I do not go to away games but reports suggest we are more effective away from home that at home, entertainment wise.

 

Speaking to many of my friends they think Puel has done a decent job with the players at his disposal but do not like his brand of football and that is turning people off.

 

I am prepared to give Puel another year but only just.

 

If you want another year of the same negative dross Ron fill your boots, Not for me, The sooner he is gone the better and let lessons be learnt. If he was to ditch the negativity and pick more sides like last Sat I'd cut him some slack. I fear tonight we will be back to the same culprits passing sideways and backwards.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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Posted
I am going to join this debate late.

 

When the season started with our new Manager I thought I would be happy with 10-14 in the league providing we had a decent run in Europe. We failed to some extent in the European adventure but made up for it in the League Cup by reaching the final.

 

We had a loss of players in the transfer window last summer that could have made a difference and some bad injuries during the campaign. However, that has supplemented, in part, by the emergence of other fringe/young players.

 

Last season we finished 6th and that was said to be partly due to the poor form of some other clubs at the top end of the table. We are likely to finish between 8th and 11th and some are arguing that our points tally suggests we are in a false position and due to teams below us having poor form. Both are correct so we are where we are on merit.

 

I would have been happy with our finish but one thing is clear and that is we are boring at home most of the time. I do not go to away games but reports suggest we are more effective away from home that at home, entertainment wise.

 

Speaking to many of my friends they think Puel has done a decent job with the players at his disposal but do not like his brand of football and that is turning people off.

 

I am prepared to give Puel another year but only just.

 

Good post, agree with your views. If you take the table in isolation and we finish 8th, good stuff.....but there's a lot more that has to be considered. I don't think he's done an horrendous job by any means, I just don't really know for sure what his long-term plan is. I don't think anyone does.

 

I've never known a manager to have such a non-reaction from a fan base after a season, everyone I've spoken to is just a bit meh about him. Given that so many fans feel that way, I don't believe it's beyond the realms of possibility for several players to feel the same way.

 

I was confused at the start of the season as to his intentions and plans. We had this diamond formation - which was slightly over played on here, as it wasn't as rigid as a 'diamond', but we did become - seemingly overnight - a very crab like team, not very progressive. What made us so enjoyable to watch over the last couple of seasons was our progressive style and the way we got into teams faces, both under Koeman and Poch. The first thing Claude seems to want to achieve is nullify the oppo, contain them and then look to open the game. I will be blunt here and say that I don't think that style will get us much luck in the premier league, we also don't have the players for it. Our players are geared up for fast paced, in your face, progressive pressing. This stand off and wait approach probably annoys them as much as it does us.

 

So whilst the season to an outsider would look good, the crux of it is that as fans, it doesn't feel like we're going anywhere. We're being sucked into this void of nothingness, and the worry I have - and most others I've spoken to - is if we tread along this path, then we could quite easily start to slide down and completely lose our presence as one of the better teams in this league. Going by the comments from Kruger (although I try not to take too much of what he says as gospel) the club kind of feel the same, maybe they don't see where we can go long-term with this way of playing either.

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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
Good post, agree with your views. If you take the table in isolation and we finish 8th, good stuff.....but there's a lot more that has to be considered. I don't think he's done an horrendous job by any means, I just don't really know for sure what his long-term plan is. I don't think anyone does.

 

I've never known a manager to have such a non-reaction from a fan base after a season, everyone I've spoken to is just a bit meh about him. Given that so many fans feel that way, I don't believe it's beyond the realms of possibility for several players to feel the same way.

 

I was confused at the start of the season as to his intentions and plans. We had this diamond formation - which was slightly over played on here, as it wasn't as rigid as a 'diamond', but we did become - seemingly overnight - a very crab like team, not very progressive. What made us so enjoyable to watch over the last couple of seasons was our progressive style and the way we got into teams faces, both under Koeman and Poch. The first thing Claude seems to want to achieve is nullify the oppo, contain them and then look to open the game. I will be blunt here and say that I don't think that style will get us much luck in the premier league, we also don't have the players for it. Our players are geared up for fast paced, in your face, progressive pressing. This stand off and wait approach probably annoys them as much as it does us.

 

So whilst the season to an outsider would look good, the crux of it is that as fans, it doesn't feel like we're going anywhere. We're being sucked into this void of nothingness, and the worry I have - and most others I've spoken to - is if we tread along this path, then we could quite easily start to slide down and completely lose our presence as one of the better teams in this league. Going by the comments from Kruger (although I try not to take too much of what he says as gospel) the club kind of feel the same, maybe they don't see where we can go long-term with this way of playing either.

the reason fans have not taken to him is that he doesn't juggle and crack jokes during interviews. If he told the fans how great they are that would help him as well. His English was poor but is improving, Ian surprised the club didn't use Black to do the interviews a bit more
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