Puel out

[ALWAYS_SFC]

And Marco only joined Hull in January. He had improved them even though he lost some of his better players. You can't say the same about us and Puel.

 

Puel has lost a lot of goals from last year and has improved players, like jwp, McQueen, Stephens, romeu, Redmond, Maya

[adrian lord]

It is arguable that those "improved" have simply played more, and improvement is an illusory effect of that. Most were previously understudies and so have simply emerged from the shadows of their more illustrious, long-sold predecessors.

 

What is clear is that too many players have gone backwards under Puel's stewardship.

[CB Fry]

It is arguable that those "improved" have simply played more, and improvement is an illusory effect of that. Most were previously understudies and so have simply emerged from the shadows of their more illustrious, long-sold predecessors.

 

What is clear is that too many players have gone backwards under Puel's stewardship.

Anything remotely good that has happened would have, like, happened anyway but everything bad that has happened is directly the fault of the mamager, yeah?

[Saint-Fred]

S

 

Where have I said you weren't entitled to an opinion, you are of course but so am i

 

Fair enough..we agree to disagree..I can think Puel is not the right manager for us without you saying i am a bedwetter etc and you can think everything is good and I won't call you a happy clapper!

 

Lol all is well in the world! :-)

[kermitsaint]

Anything remotely good that has happened would have, like, happened anyway but everything bad that has happened is directly the fault of the mamager, yeah?

It was obvious last season that Romeu needed more game time , hence his improvement.

 

Not even you or Always can dispute how many players have gone backwards coincidentally as soon as Puel joined us .

But thats not the managers fault though right

 

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[CB Fry]

It was obvious last season that Romeu needed more game time , hence his improvement.

 

Not even you or Always can dispute how many players have gone backwards coincidentally as soon as Puel joined us .

But thats not the managers fault though right

 

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No idea why you are bracketing me with ALWAYS. Don't do it again.

[simo]

Tactics spot on against Klopp again today tfb keep it tight for 70 mind then have a go.

Edited 7 May, 2017 by simo

[Verbal Kint]

Tactics spot on against Klopp again today tfb keep it tight for 70 mind then have a go.

 

At no point did we have a go. In fact I don't recall seeing a more negative performance from a saints side in a long time. Thankfully Forster won us a ppint, but we could easily have lost without registering an attack of note. I have no problem with us defending deep amd being organised, but you have to carry some sort of threat on the counter attack.

 

Liverpool are an average side without Mane and I'd liked to have seen us offer something going forward

[ALWAYS_SFC]

No idea why you are bracketing me with ALWAYS. Don't do it again.

 

Indeed fry but he does have a issue with me.....

Edited 7 May, 2017 by ALWAYS_SFC

[Faz]

It was obvious last season that Romeu needed more game time , hence his improvement.

 

Not even you or Always can dispute how many players have gone backwards coincidentally as soon as Puel joined us .

But thats not the managers fault though right

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

 

Actually, I'm struggling to name the players who've gone backwards. Do enlighten me.

[Dr. Kucho]

And Marco only joined Hull in January. He had improved them even though he lost some of his better players. You can't say the same about us and Puel.

 

Puel lost Wanyama, Pelle, Mane and in January Van Dijk.

[AK]

Puel lost Wanyama, Pelle, Mane and in January Van Dijk.

 

There is plenty of reasonable debate to be had about Puel- personally I'm in the undecided camp-but what a load of nonsense. Those players were replaced with the exception of Virgil.I know it's true because it was stated here endlessly last August/September.

[Saint_clark]

There is plenty of reasonable debate to be had about Puel- personally I'm in the undecided camp-but what a load of nonsense. Those players were replaced with the exception of Virgil.I know it's true because it was stated here endlessly last August/September.

 

Only fair to give Puel a second season. The season we finished 6th under Koeman was fantastic but let's be honest, the traditional top 6 absolutely fell apart, we could and maybe should have finished even higher with the squad we had.

[Heisenberg]

Actually, I'm struggling to name the players who've gone backwards. Do enlighten me.

 

Posted on another thread but relevant here since you've asked....

 

JWP and Romeu have improved on previous seasons but think that's more game time than coaching (IMHO) Romeu has been excellent all season and by Puel and Les own admission he'd had no time to coach and that was around January time. Ironically Romeu is rated higher before Jan than after.... weird coincidence I'm sure.

 

WhoScored rate players each game on a number of factors.

 

Romeu is avg 7.08 this season vs 6.80 last

JWP is avg 6.74 vs last season 6.55

 

Has the below as performing worse (backwards) this season vs last

 

VVD is 7.43 was 7.56

Cedric is 7.0 was 7.27

Fonte is 6.5 was 7.10

Clasie is 6.4 was 6.7

Forster is 6.3 was 6.8

Bertrand is 6.8 was 7

Davis is 6.7 was 7

Boufal is 6.8 was 7.6

Tadic is 6.8 was 7.1

Long is 6.3 was 7

Redmond is 7.01 his avg at Norwich was 7.29

[Saint_clark]

How would you judge Puel? 6th last year, 12th at the moment. Must be less than fair surely?

 

I would judge him on his second season if you want to use Koemans second (relatively uninterrupted by European and League Cup football) as a benchmark...

[Millbrook Saint]

Puel might be an ok manager but his football is boring, it feels like watching West Brom, albeit we may have more skillful players. The problem with producing boring football is that the exciting skillful players get frustrated, how long before the players that are supposed to excite us fook off to a team where they get to showcase their talents, then we just end up with plodders. Pochetino, when he was here built up the players confidence, made them play above themselves, gave them confidence to take on teams, the players then love playing for him, players from other clubs want to be part of that. To me when he gets the players to play so defensive he's telling them that they're not as good as the other team so we need to shut up shop to get anything from the game. This should not be how we play

[St.JonB]

I would judge him on his second season if you want to use Koemans second (relatively uninterrupted by European and League Cup football) as a benchmark...

 

But Koeman finished 7th in his first season? Anyway I think we should try and sign Walcott. He is wasted at Arsenal and Puel gets on with Wenger. Type of player that would fit well with our sit back and hit teams on the break policy.

[aintforever]

Would be harsh to sack him after getting us to our first major final in donkeys years.

 

This season was effected by the fact that we had a Europa cup campaign but not the strength in depth to cope with it. Plus we replaced our two top scorers with Redmond. If we had signed Gabbi in the Summer and didn't have Europe to worry about we wouldn't be far off Everton This season IMO.

[James]

Problem we appear to have is that we have little balance to our play. We are either good at the back and hopeless going forward or it's the other way around. Don't really buy the misfiring strikers point that many have used to justify our goals return. Yes, we've missed some chances but in the games where we have been poor up top it's more due to lack of chances created than strikers missing them. Gabbi was scoring every game during our run where we went a bit gung ho but I can't remember him having a chance of any note since he's come back from injury. For an aspiring PL team to have so few shots on goal in the last two games (especially against a Hull side that are absolute garbage on the road and who even Sunderland put away) is not good enough IMO. Puel has a lot of work to do over the summer to get the team balance set up properly. Hopefully some decent recruitment will help but I suspect a summer of off field change might hamper our transfer business so he may have to work with a team that is even weaker than what we've got at the moment. I'm not sure he's the right man if that turns out to be what happens.

[Toadhall Saint]

Would be harsh to sack him after getting us to our first major final in donkeys years.

 

This season was effected by the fact that we had a Europa cup campaign but not the strength in depth to cope with it. Plus we replaced our two top scorers with Redmond. If we had signed Gabbi in the Summer and didn't have Europe to worry about we wouldn't be far off Everton This season IMO.

 

Far to sensible for this nut house

[Shroppie]

Now that, I think after today's performance, the stories of losing the dressing room can be knocked on the head, time for a rational look at where we are.

 

Those crying out for expansive attacking football, even against the top teams, need to recognise that will lead mainly to thrashings. Give the best teams space and they will appreciate it greatly.

 

So I'm not upset with the tactics today, and would accept a repeat on Weds, if we can get a result. But we do need a more positive way of playing against weaker opposition. Plenty will disagree with me, but on the whole I think we've tried to do that. Where we've failed, it's been through lack of a clinical striker and poor finishing generally. We have created plenty of chances.

 

Yes, there are other tactics. When Poch first arrived, his high press really shook teams, but that required levels of fitness and coaching skills that I don't think Puel quite has in the same measure as Pochettino. And teams have learned how to counter the press.

 

So, having been a doubter, I'm now for keeping Puel for at least another season. If we can strengthen both by retaining and making one or two signings, and without European games, it'll be interesting.

 

Bring on next season. And yes, I have certainly renewed. Couldn't possibly think of not doing so.

 

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[Saint_clark]

But Koeman finished 7th in his first season? Anyway I think we should try and sign Walcott. He is wasted at Arsenal and Puel gets on with Wenger. Type of player that would fit well with our sit back and hit teams on the break policy.

 

And Koeman also didn't have European or League Cup football as a distraction, nor did he have long term injuries to three key players at key points in the season (goalscorer, best player, goalscorer).

[whelk]

Now that, I think after today's performance, the stories of losing the dressing room can be knocked on the head, time for a rational look at where we are.

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I thought I could see marks from Puel's thumbs on Bertrand's throat.

[Shroppie]

I thought I could see marks from Puel's thumbs on Bertrand's throat.

Yeah, right. And severely bruised gonads all round.

 

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[Charlie Wayman]

What's changed after today, nothing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I've said all along and I'll say it again. In terms of away performances this season has been every bit as good as either of Koemans. Where we're not so good is the barnstorming home performances that Koemans oversaw. However if you look at those, most of them were as a result of Mane playing brilliantly.You've seen how much Liverpool have missed him, despite having some other fantastic players, so it's pretty obvious we're going to miss him.

 

 

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[Forester]

Now that, I think after today's performance, the stories of losing the dressing room can be knocked on the head, time for a rational look at where we are.

 

Those crying out for expansive attacking football, even against the top teams, need to recognise that will lead mainly to thrashings. Give the best teams space and they will appreciate it greatly.

 

So I'm not upset with the tactics today, and would accept a repeat on Weds, if we can get a result. But we do need a more positive way of playing against weaker opposition. Plenty will disagree with me, but on the whole I think we've tried to do that. Where we've failed, it's been through lack of a clinical striker and poor finishing generally. We have created plenty of chances.

 

Yes, there are other tactics. When Poch first arrived, his high press really shook teams, but that required levels of fitness and coaching skills that I don't think Puel quite has in the same measure as Pochettino. And teams have learned how to counter the press.

 

So, having been a doubter, I'm now for keeping Puel for at least another season. If we can strengthen both by retaining and making one or two signings, and without European games, it'll be interesting.

 

Bring on next season. And yes, I have certainly renewed. Couldn't possibly think of not doing so.

 

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Well said

[Badger]

Would be harsh to sack him after getting us to our first major final in donkeys years.

 

This season was effected by the fact that we had a Europa cup campaign but not the strength in depth to cope with it. Plus we replaced our two top scorers with Redmond. If we had signed Gabbi in the Summer and didn't have Europe to worry about we wouldn't be far off Everton This season IMO.

 

As I see it there are two strands to the debate over whether Saints should retain Puel or not.

 

A)Should he go on the basis of our results, performances and the outcome of this season ? - For me our league position, and a cup final deserve a further season, and as you say, would be harsh to sack him, although we've had several flat performances taht cause concern.

 

B)Are we confident he's the man to take us forward ? On that I'm not convinced.

 

If we can attract a manager who plays the attractive football we want, and has a track record then I'd be pleased with a change, but in truth we're unlikely to be able to bring in the sort of candidate we'd want/need, and then there's the question if we could retain them beyond a year.

 

Have to also add a c)perhaps - the dressing room, and how his position might affect players willingness to stay (but probably agent ******** really, even if we appointed Pep, most players would play for Fleetwood if they suddenly offered mega £££

 

Face fact with Saints - we either have a manager no one (bigger) wants, or a manager we can't keep hold of

Edited 7 May, 2017 by Badger

[doddisalegend]

I've said all along and I'll say it again. In terms of away performances this season has been every bit as good as either of Koemans. Where we're not so good is the barnstorming home performances that Koemans oversaw. However if you look at those, most of them were as a result of Mane playing brilliantly.You've seen how much Liverpool have missed him, despite having some other fantastic players, so it's pretty obvious we're going to miss him.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I heard today that Everton haven't won a game away from home since January.

[SKD]

As I see it there are two strands to the debate over whether Saints should retain Puel or not.

 

A)Should he go on the basis of our results, performances and the outcome of this season ? - For me our league position, and a cup final deserve a further season, and as you say, would be harsh to sack him, although we've had several flat performances taht cause concern.

 

B)Are we confident he's the man to take us forward ? On that I'm not convinced.

 

If we can attract a manager who plays the attractive football we want, and has a track record then I'd be pleased with a change, but in truth we're unlikely to be able to bring in the sort of candidate we'd want/need, and then there's the question if we could retain them beyond a year.

 

Face fact with Saints - we either have a manager no one (bigger) wants, or a manager we can't keep hold of

 

Pretty much agree with this but You also have to consider if the players are happy / want the manager to continue...of which a number don't.

 

Im all against player power, but when so many of the first team (starting 11) want out then you have to question do you lose your best players or manager? For me, I'd say you change manager rather than half the squad.

 

Overall, i think if you combine all 3 and the factor in the fans unhappiness with him, he has to go. On paper it will look a strange decision, but personally I would say it's justified.

[Badger]

Pretty much agree with this but You also have to consider if the players are happy / want the manager to continue...of which a number don't.

 

Im all against player power, but when so many of the first team (starting 11) want out then you have to question do you lose your best players or manager? For me, I'd say you change manager rather than half the squad.

 

Overall, i think if you combine all 3 and the factor in the fans unhappiness with him, he has to go. On paper it will look a strange decision, but personally I would say it's justified.

 

Thanks, I had intended to add the point about player unrest, and had edited the post, but you were ahead of the edit !!

 

Fans - I'm not sure if the forums truly represent fan feeling, but yes, if ST's plummet and there is a feeling of discord it doesn't help.

 

Justified decision ? Only if we can improve on the current manager/coaching set up. Not convinced Silva is the simple answer as many suggest. Hopefully the black box 2017 conjures up something more inspiring if it is called upon.

[The Cat]

Puel might be an ok manager but his football is boring, it feels like watching West Brom, albeit we may have more skillful players. The problem with producing boring football is that the exciting skillful players get frustrated, how long before the players that are supposed to excite us fook off to a team where they get to showcase their talents, then we just end up with plodders. Pochetino, when he was here built up the players confidence, made them play above themselves, gave them confidence to take on teams, the players then love playing for him, players from other clubs want to be part of that. To me when he gets the players to play so defensive he's telling them that they're not as good as the other team so we need to shut up shop to get anything from the game. This should not be how we play

 

To be fair when we did play West Brom last month pretty much everyone praised the difference between our neat, tidy passing game in comparison to their ugly tactics of slamming long balls into the corners.

 

Granted we've had some horribly disappointing performances this season but it's certainly not as bad as some people make out.

[Dark Munster]

What's changed after today, nothing.

Very true. Liverpool were again unable to score against us. No change there, four matches and counting.

[Shance]

This is where I stand on Puel as I've seen lots of people saying 'top ten finish is a good season'.

 

True, league position wise we are exactly where I thought we'd be and we had that amazing day at wembley, even if we didn't quite do it.

 

For me though, it's not about where we are but more how we got there. There are two sides to Puel and they can both be seen in two games against Liverpool.

 

In the home leg of the semi final he set us up to attack them a bit and we played some lovely stuff. We should've smashed them in all honesty. When he sets us up like that, we really do look a top team as it plays to our strengths and matches the formation we've been used to.

 

The other side of Puel is the home league game against Liverpool. He set us up to sit really really deep. Inviting pressure and basically sucking all the life from the game trying not to concede. I know being tight at the back is very important but the way he sets us up at times is all wrong.

 

So in conclusion, if he sticks to trying to get the best out of what players he has at his disposal then we'll have a cracking season next year. If he continues setting us up defensively and slow then we will struggle even more.

 

I say give him another season. He's done nothing to not warrant that imo.

[whelk]

Ok maybe not everyone's barometer but the Sky pundits all full of praise. Carra thinks we are clearly the best of the rest and says all the big clubs never feel we will ever be an easy game. Souness thinks we play lively football as does Jamie Redknapp. They couldn't fathom why PUel could be under pressure esp as lost key players.

 

Not saying they are correct but outsiders consider us a lot more positively than most of our fans.

[Cartman]

Ok maybe not everyone's barometer but the Sky pundits all full of praise. Carra thinks we are clearly the best of the rest and says all the big clubs never feel we will ever be an easy game. Souness thinks we play lively football as does Jamie Redknapp. They couldn't fathom why PUel could be under pressure esp as lost key players.

 

Not saying they are correct but outsiders consider us a lot more positively than most of our fans.

 

Weird. Surely this season that's Everton?

[doddisalegend]

Weird. Surely this season that's Everton?

 

yeah but those three pundits are all ex Liverpool so err...

[doddisalegend]

Ok maybe not everyone's barometer but the Sky pundits all full of praise. Carra thinks we are clearly the best of the rest and says all the big clubs never feel we will ever be an easy game. Souness thinks we play lively football as does Jamie Redknapp. They couldn't fathom why PUel could be under pressure esp as lost key players.

 

Not saying they are correct but outsiders consider us a lot more positively than most of our fans.

 

I caught a bit of talk****e's press pass last night and they were complimentary about saints and Puel to.

[whelk]

Weird. Surely this season that's Everton?

 

Maybe think Everton are in the other group

[SKD]

Ok maybe not everyone's barometer but the Sky pundits all full of praise. Carra thinks we are clearly the best of the rest and says all the big clubs never feel we will ever be an easy game. Souness thinks we play lively football as does Jamie Redknapp. They couldn't fathom why PUel could be under pressure esp as lost key players.

 

Not saying they are correct but outsiders consider us a lot more positively than most of our fans.

 

They don't watch us week in week out. I'm sure if they did, it'd be a different story.

[aintforever]

T

The other side of Puel is the home league game against Liverpool. He set us up to sit really really deep. Inviting pressure and basically sucking all the life from the game trying not to concede. I know being tight at the back is very important but the way he sets us up at times is all wrong.

 

But using those tactics away to Liverpool is how we got to Wembley, and Leicester won the league by not worrying about conceding possession and hitting on the break. It's probably the best way of a club like ours actually winning something.

[Verbal Kint]

But using those tactics away to Liverpool is how we got to Wembley, and Leicester won the league by not worrying about conceding possession and hitting on the break. It's probably the best way of a club like ours actually winning something.

 

'hitting on the break' being the important part of that. We offered nothing going forward yesterday and if we play like that regularly we won't pick up many points. You have to be threatening going forward in some way

[doddisalegend]

But using those tactics away to Liverpool is how we got to Wembley, and Leicester won the league by not worrying about conceding possession and hitting on the break. It's probably the best way of a club like ours actually winning something.

 

 

Sadly we have a few to many players who are either not very fast (especially in midfield) or want a couple of touches to many which is making our counter attacking far to ponderous to make it truly effective.

[SKD]

But using those tactics away to Liverpool is how we got to Wembley, and Leicester won the league by not worrying about conceding possession and hitting on the break. It's probably the best way of a club like ours actually winning something.

 

This is exactly how we played under Koeman.

 

The difference being, when we attacked we had 2 players around Pelle (Yes one of those was Mane, but we set up in a completely different way. Give Boufal the ball in the final 3rd and he can be as good / effective as Mane, IMO). Currently we have 10 men parked on the edge of our box, with all the play in front of us, which is very good from a defensive point of view, but it makes it very difficult to counter. If feel for Gabbi, he get absolutely no help and you can sense him getting very frustrated (especially if he keeps getting taken off on 65 minutes).

 

For me, i'd like to see the back 4 push up 5/10 yrds and have the front 3 applying pressure to the ball, higher up the pitch. We've got 2 of the best attacking full backs in the leauge, IMO, who can provide the width when we have possession of the ball get the forward 2/3 in and around Gabbi.

[mrfahaji]

Now that, I think after today's performance, the stories of losing the dressing room can be knocked on the head, time for a rational look at where we are.

 

Those crying out for expansive attacking football, even against the top teams, need to recognise that will lead mainly to thrashings. Give the best teams space and they will appreciate it greatly.

 

So I'm not upset with the tactics today, and would accept a repeat on Weds, if we can get a result. But we do need a more positive way of playing against weaker opposition. Plenty will disagree with me, but on the whole I think we've tried to do that. Where we've failed, it's been through lack of a clinical striker and poor finishing generally. We have created plenty of chances.

 

Yes, there are other tactics. When Poch first arrived, his high press really shook teams, but that required levels of fitness and coaching skills that I don't think Puel quite has in the same measure as Pochettino. And teams have learned how to counter the press.

 

So, having been a doubter, I'm now for keeping Puel for at least another season. If we can strengthen both by retaining and making one or two signings, and without European games, it'll be interesting.

 

Bring on next season. And yes, I have certainly renewed. Couldn't possibly think of not doing so.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Generally agree, though you could argue that Spurs being a shoe-in for second place (hopefully that means they'll finish third, ha), suggests that teams haven't learnt to counter the press that well!

 

I don't think the tactics yesterday were to "get rid of it" every time we got the ball back, but it did look like the players were so afraid of being caught out of position, they didn't want to overcommit to attacks, so they broke down quickly. Equally when we got into their third and had them on the back foot we opted to then play safe, keep-ball tactics, which meant we forwent the chance to nick a goal. The fact we got a point suggests it was worth the caution, but at times I think we could have afforded a little more bravery with the ball.

[mrfahaji]

VVD is 7.43 was 7.56

Cedric is 7.0 was 7.27

Fonte is 6.5 was 7.10

Clasie is 6.4 was 6.7

Forster is 6.3 was 6.8

Bertrand is 6.8 was 7

Davis is 6.7 was 7

Boufal is 6.8 was 7.6

Tadic is 6.8 was 7.1

Long is 6.3 was 7

Redmond is 7.01 his avg at Norwich was 7.29

 

Wouldn't disagree with many of those, though have to be wary of causality of ratings. For example, I'm not sure van Dijk played worse than last season, yet has probably been given a poorer rating on account of the fact he hasn't won as many games. The one I would disagree on is Cedric. He has been superb this year, whereas last season he was unconvincing, having a good game once in a while.

[krissyboy31]

Whether he has improved players or not is a matter of opinion but we are dull as dishwater to watch most of the time and if I were a neutral I certainly wouldn't pay to watch us and probably wouldn't bother turning on the tv.

[Heisenberg]

Whether he has improved players or not is a matter of opinion but we are dull as dishwater to watch most of the time and if I were a neutral I certainly wouldn't pay to watch us and probably wouldn't bother turning on the tv.

 

That's the common response I get up here. Normally in a golf tournament/open (Edinburgh or Glasgow) they will clock the English accent and ask which town I'm from (Bournemouth) and my team.

 

"Southampton" I proudly announce. Usual response was "the Saints... Good team" or "Good manager" or "you guys play good football"

 

Now it's "what's happened this season?"

 

Although I don't rate Puel I find myself defending him....

 

Oh it's a transition season and oh yeah we've had loads of injuries and/or we have played a million games this season and players are exhausted. All with a hint of let's move on.

[mrfahaji]

Whether he has improved players or not is a matter of opinion but we are dull as dishwater to watch most of the time and if I were a neutral I certainly wouldn't pay to watch us and probably wouldn't bother turning on the tv.

 

Hopefully that means next season we won't be on TV as much and we can have more Saturday 3pm kick offs! You see, there's always a silver lining if you look for it :-)

[Give it to Ron]

Hopefully that means next season we won't be on TV as much and we can have more Saturday 3pm kick offs! You see, there's always a silver lining if you look for it :-)

 

We won 7 of our 11 wins on a Sunday.