spyinthesky Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Discussing this 'handle' last night after the disappointment of the afternoon. It was agreed that we are all mightily cheesed off that a succession of players have been sold off and, had they stayed, we might actually have moved forward at a quicker pace than at present. That said if the club had not invested in the Academy and instead bought a succession of duffers, with little or no sell on value (it is accepted we have had a few unfortunately!!), we would be in a worse place than we are. So the consensus was, we should be proud of the club's policy even though it is grates when good players are sold off. As Graham Souness said in his Sunday Times column today, Saints fans are a fair bunch with reasonable expectations and that is a good reputation to have for managers and players alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 (edited) The day I'll get worried is when we have a team full of players that none of the 'big 6' want and the 'exodus' grinds to a halt. Our 'selling club' policy is a symbol of our success rather than a failure. IMHO of course. Edited 4 December, 2016 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 The day I'll get worried is when we have a team full of players that none of the 'big 6' want and the 'exodus' grinds to a halt. Our 'selling club' policy is a symbol of our success rather than a failure. IMHO of course. Yep, nothing better rhan to watch your club make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Yep, nothing better rhan to watch your club make money. How about watching us turn decent players into top class players for the couple of years they are with us? That's quite satisfying, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 The day I'll get worried is when we have a team full of players that none of the 'big 6' want and the 'exodus' grinds to a halt. Our 'selling club' policy is a symbol of our success rather than a failure. IMHO of course. Easily pleased. I suppose your idea of a good time is lying on your back with your feet and arms in the air having your tummy tickled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 The day I'll get worried is when we have a team full of players that none of the 'big 6' want and the 'exodus' grinds to a halt. Our 'selling club' policy is a symbol of our success rather than a failure. IMHO of course. You forget that the really thick, of which there are many, think we can keep our players regardless. They really fail to understand how the club is structured or that players want to play for the really big clubs, of which we will never be one, despite said morons telling all-comers that we "could be one". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Easily pleased. I suppose your idea of a good time is lying on your back with your feet and arms in the air having your tummy tickled! Funnily enough, that's on the agenda in the Trousers household for tomorrow evening. It's a special pre-Christmas treat from Lady Trousers. Highly recommended for anyone who hasn't tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 I'm happy with the position we're making for ourselves. We could soon find ourselves becoming the chosen destination for Europe's top young talent: play at Saints for 2-3 years, experience Europe, develop, move to a CL club. For me that'd be a decent identity to forge (if it comes with regular European football, top 8 finishes and cup runs). I'd rather that than be a 'nothing' club like Stoke/WBA/Everton/Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Easily pleased. I suppose your idea of a good time is lying on your back with your feet and arms in the air having your tummy tickled! Genuinely astounds me that so many of our "fans" seem to almost celebrate our selling policy I'm a Saints fan not a business fan - no that doesn't mean "do a Pompey" and get in huge debt, it simply mean stop selling our best players to our competition and if you absolutely have to sell once in a while lets reinvest the money received not bank 30-50% We will look back on this period as an opportunity missed, unless we change our policy very very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Yep, nothing better rhan to watch your club make money. Nothing better than watching your club have seven successive seasons (Since the owners took over) of higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. I'm with you all the way Saint Billy :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 The day I'll get worried is when we have a team full of players that none of the 'big 6' want and the 'exodus' grinds to a halt. Our 'selling club' policy is a symbol of our success rather than a failure. IMHO of course. Yes, like a year after we were relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Nothing better than watching your club have seven successive seasons (Since the owners took over) of higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. I'm with you all the way Saint Billy :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Give me a comparable example .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 You forget that the really thick, of which there are many, think we can keep our players regardless. They really fail to understand how the club is structured or that players want to play for the really big clubs, of which we will never be one, despite said morons telling all-comers that we "could be one". You don't need a great past to have a great future! Just ask RB Leipzig To simply accept we are little Southampton and only here to develop and test players for the proper / big boys. What's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Give me a comparable example .................. what, a team getting bought by a billionaire, racking up pretty decent sized debt in getting promoted to the top tier and getting into europe with the 20th most expensive squad in world football (or something like that) all comes down to money. Hardly unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 what, a team getting bought by a billionaire, racking up pretty decent sized debt in getting promoted to the top tier and getting into europe with the 20th most expensive squad in world football (or something like that) all comes down to money. Hardly unique Really ..... so should be very easy for you to give me a comparable example.................Over to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Give me a comparable example .................. Leicester - aka current league champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Really ..... so should be very easy for you to give me a comparable example.................Over to you. Leicester or even Bournemouth Swansea? like Leicester, have a major trophy to show for it there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 I'm happy with the position we're making for ourselves. We could soon find ourselves becoming the chosen destination for Europe's top young talent: play at Saints for 2-3 years, experience Europe, develop, move to a CL club. For me that'd be a decent identity to forge (if it comes with regular European football, top 8 finishes and cup runs). I'd rather that than be a 'nothing' club like Stoke/WBA/Everton/Palace. Worth remembering that Spurs were pretty much exactly where we are now 5-10 years ago, at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Leicester - aka current league champions Ah that will be the ones fighting a relegation battle according to their manager, Let me make it simple for you..... I've posted the criteria twice, but I understand you might not have grasped it yet, so lets try a third time; Seven higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. Over to you........... and the cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Leicester or even Bournemouth Swansea? like Leicester, have a major trophy to show for it there you go Stick to cooking ........what on earth are you on about. Seven higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Stick to cooking ........what on earth are you on about. what has cooking got to do with anything? weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Nothing better than watching your club have seven successive seasons (Since the owners took over) of higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. I'm with you all the way Saint Billy :lol::lol: Leicester or even Bournemouth Swansea? like Leicester, have a major trophy to show for it there you go Bournemouth and Swansea aren't in Europe and haven't got squads worth over £200million, nor did they have 7 years of consecutive improvement. Leicester was an absolute fluke, a one in a million, and you know it. Pray tell, what did they do summer before last that we can copy? Have a squad of players that had barely escaped relegation and nobody wanted, then go back to 90s style kick and rush football? Fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 weird! I can selectively quote too! And yes, you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 what has cooking got to do with anything? weird! Forum joke as you well know. You have the criteria - The one you mocked , now give me a comparable example...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Bournemouth and Swansea aren't in Europe and haven't got squads worth over £200million, nor did they have 7 years of consecutive improvement. Leicester was an absolute fluke, a one in a million, and you know it. Pray tell, what did they do summer before last that we can copy? Have a squad of players that had barely escaped relegation and nobody wanted, then go back to 90s style kick and rush football? Fantastic. swansea were in Europe and have won something of significance on their rise to the top table. As for Leicester, fluke or not, it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Forum joke as you well know. You have the criteria - The one you mocked , now give me a comparable example...................... joke about what? is a job as a cook something to laugh at???? I am not one but have massive respect for those who do the job in pretty testing conditions and as such, if they were not there, nothing would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 swansea were in Europe and have won something of significance on their rise to the top table. As for Leicester, fluke or not, it happened And we may yet do the same, are we in the semi finals of the same competition they won or was that the alternate dimension I like to visit sometimes in which you don't exist? WTF is your point with Leicester then? That every single season we DON'T win the league by fluke, we should sack everyone and start again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 And we may yet do the same, are we in the semi finals of the same competition they won or was that the alternate dimension I like to visit sometimes in which you don't exist? WTF is your point with Leicester then? That every single season we DON'T win the league by fluke, we should sack everyone and start again? and Leicester pished their Champions League group. so another year of improvement for them if the cups count? where did I say anything about sacking anyone. Just pointing out that throwing loads of money at a club with already premier league facilities and a bit of luck is not unique.....very good work but not unique in "world football" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 joke about what? is a job as a cook something to laugh at???? I am not one but have massive respect for those who do the job in pretty testing conditions and as such, if they were not there, nothing would happen And the comparable example is ?? :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Stick to cooking ........what on earth are you on about. Seven higher year on year finishes, build out the club infrastructure, qualify for Europe twice and repay the debt (Yes debt) that the club is in, to ultimately achieve this as completely self funded project, whilst at the same time build a squad worth 200 million. As mentioned before, simply incredible and unbelievable and probably unrivaled anywhere in the world. Nobody is denying we've done great in recent years - but where do we go now? So many seem content to just rest, perhaps train and test a few for the big clubs. We have no history of success so don't and won't get any in the future ******. We are not unique - Leicester have done better than us, Man City were in league 1 too not long ago. Swansea have won a cup and had Europe games Everyone talks about the last 7 years like we had nothing before.... we did in fact we finished 8th and had a cup final and Europe 12 years ago so all we've really done is return to where we were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 And the comparable example is ?? :lol::lol: lets agree to disagree. if you think Southampton are some sort of 'unparalleled club' in the whole of the world. good for you. Man city are another who have gone from League 1 and improved year upon year on and off the pitch you sound like a Liverpool fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 and Leicester pished their Champions League group. so another year of improvement for them if the cups count? where did I say anything about sacking anyone. Just pointing out that throwing loads of money at a club with already premier league facilities and a bit of luck is not unique.....very good work but not unique in "world football" You still haven't provided an example of a single club that meets all of Gemmels criteria by the way. One or two separate ones, but not all. As for Leicester, yes they did...and if we'd put our strongest team out in every Europa game and f*cked our league campaign, we may well have qualified two games ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 I don't mind the policy as we have been doing well and selling these stars is a sign that they, and in turn us, have done great, of course I would love these stars we make to stay here and compete for us, but in reality that isn't possible without breaking the wage budgets considerably. I will admit though, that I am very scared it can go wrong one year- whether that is the wrong manager or wrong transfers- it is a very high risk strategy, even if we do plan all our transfers etc in advance, you still never know how they will do. For a club like us, we are as close to top 6 as we are to relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Nobody is denying we've done great in recent years - but where do we go now? So many seem content to just rest, perhaps train and test a few for the big clubs. We have no history of success so don't and won't get any in the future ******. We are not unique - Leicester have done better than us, Man City were in league 1 too not long ago. Swansea have won a cup and had Europe games Everyone talks about the last 7 years like we had nothing before.... we did in fact we finished 8th and had a cup final and Europe 12 years ago so all we've really done is return to where we were We had one season of europe (which we got nowhere in) in our best ever season at the time. Little bit different to finishing 8th, 7th, 6th and playing in Europe 2 seasons running. I really don't get your point with the above (well I do, you're trolling - I just can't resist proving people wrong), what do you propose we do? No-ones suggesting we never try to win anything, just that we're not going to be able to hold onto top, top players by paying huge wages and so going all out for top 4 would be ridiculous. Our best bet is to maintain our position, try to improve our squad slowly and subtly and aim to win a cup or two along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 You still haven't provided an example of a single club that meets all of Gemmels criteria by the way. One or two separate ones, but not all. As for Leicester, yes they did...and if we'd put our strongest team out in every Europa game and f*cked our league campaign, we may well have qualified two games ago. We are only a couple of points and places above Leicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 We had one season of europe (which we got nowhere in) in our best ever season at the time. Little bit different to finishing 8th, 7th, 6th and playing in Europe 2 seasons running. I really don't get your point with the above (well I do, you're trolling - I just can't resist proving people wrong), what do you propose we do? No-ones suggesting we never try to win anything, just that we're not going to be able to hold onto top, top players by paying huge wages and so going all out for top 4 would be ridiculous. Our best bet is to maintain our position, try to improve our squad slowly and subtly and aim to win a cup or two along the way. there was life before the premier league you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 we're not going to be able to hold onto top, top players Why? Leicester have managed it, Spurs too - niether pay players 200k a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Why? Leicester have managed it, Spurs too - niether pay players 200k a week Spurs just gave Kane 100k week contract, not to forget Lloris, Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen all around the 90k mark, as have Leicester who have Drinkwater, Mahrez, Vardy, Slimani all on 90k plus. Our best get around £70k max I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Nothing better than to witness a constant stream of players coming and going not to mention managers. I really do look forward to watching players settling in over a period of months and also having to adapt to yet another managers new philosophy. Who needs stability or consistency when you have fans still celebrating getting back into the premiership and being content enough with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Spurs just gave Kane 100k week contract, not to forget Lloris, Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen all around the 90k mark, as have Leicester who have Drinkwater, Mahrez, Vardy, Slimani all on 90k plus. Our best get around £70k max I'd say. We can't compete with Leicester on wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 there was life before the premier league you know Ffs. Yes there was, and although that was just a poor choice of phrase where we finished in the 80s is completely irrelevant to our aims and ambitions today. The game as a whole is totally different let alone the state of Southampton FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 It would be nice to let the children go into another room and have this discussion. We absolutely are a selling club, but we have made a success of it where others have failed. There are plenty of 'buying clubs' who have failed too, so we have to consider ourselves lucky to have found something that has produced success. As frustrating as it is to watch good players go so regularly, it has worked. Whether we could have done even better by standing firm on this player or that is for the birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 It's ok to be a 'selling club' if we maintain our premier status. If we lose that we won't attract young players who want first team experience in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 lets agree to disagree. if you think Southampton are some sort of 'unparalleled club' in the whole of the world. good for you. Man city are another who have gone from League 1 and improved year upon year on and off the pitch you sound like a Liverpool fan No lets not. Lets agree that I posted a criteria that was unrivaled in world football and you mocked me, but were then unable to come close to another team in the World that has matched us. Let's agree that you are a bit of kn0b, that doesn't actually go to many matches but has lots of opinions that amount to nothing. So much so that you had had to change your user name and then spend 3 months denying it, until you had to come clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 We can't compete with Leicester on wages? NO.... with their Champions league revenue, we cant get close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 NO.... with their Champions league revenue, we cant get close. it is about 12.5m euros for being in the CL groups. you sure we cannot get close to that, given our significant negative net spends over the last couple of summers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 it is about 12.5m euros for being in the CL groups. you sure we cannot get close to that, given our significant negative net spends over the last couple of summers Delldays - You are thick as a plank - Negative spends have nothing to do with the FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 I'm happy with the position we're making for ourselves. We could soon find ourselves becoming the chosen destination for Europe's top young talent: play at Saints for 2-3 years, experience Europe, develop, move to a CL club. For me that'd be a decent identity to forge (if it comes with regular European football, top 8 finishes and cup runs). I'd rather that than be a 'nothing' club like Stoke/WBA/Everton/Palace. If we really dare to dream, then our model should be Atletico Madrid. They'll never be able to compete financially with Barca and Real, but they are serious players in European football. Our biggest challenge is that there are too many mega-rich clubs in the Premier league and that means it's hard to qualify for the Champions League in the first place to get access to the money that gets you to the next level. Will be interesting to see how wisely Leicester invest their financial bonanza. What we have instead of course is the academy and the players and then the money it produces... so IF we continue going about it the right way I'm optimistic that we can win some trophies in the coming years. Exciting times (and I say that after we've just lost three nil to Palace). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoswellSaint Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Genuinely astounds me that so many of our "fans" seem to almost celebrate our selling policy I'm a Saints fan not a business fan - no that doesn't mean "do a Pompey" and get in huge debt, it simply mean stop selling our best players to our competition and if you absolutely have to sell once in a while lets reinvest the money received not bank 30-50% We will look back on this period as an opportunity missed, unless we change our policy very very soon Genuinely astounds me that so many of our "fans" still don't get it. I'm a Saints fan not an unsustainable club fan. We will look back on this period as one of the best in the club's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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