Lord Duckhunter Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Provided we get a result Thursday, it's still been a decent run . Beating Koeman , semi final & out our Europa league group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Fact is as long as we're in the Europa cup, and with the added League cup games, we're going to have inconsistent league form. Thursday is way more important than yesterday's game. We simply dont have the squad to compete in all the comps, A few of us said on here pre season that we needed more strength in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 The Cherries showed one thing today that we didn't yesterday.FIGHT. 'Nuff said' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Well that was a shocker. Again. Is the first team the new second team? I am starting to lose track, given performances. JWP, Hojberg and Romeu cannot play together. Safety first rubbish all the time. Rubbish. Problem is, all our midfielders play safety first football. I'd say in at least 3/4 of the games he starts, Romeu is actually the most progressive of our midfielders in his passing and running, despite also being the player with the most defensive responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Problem is, all our midfielders play safety first football. I'd say in at least 3/4 of the games he starts, Romeu is actually the most progressive of our midfielders in his passing and running, despite also being the player with the most defensive responsibility. Agreed to an extent. Davis shows some forward thinking at times, and Hojbjerg occasionally drives forward, but not sure either does enough to make up for whoever is playing as the other midfielder. I think Davis & Hojbjerg are the best pair, but then JWP and Clasie can't play together in the alternative fixture. That may be why we have such problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in NZ Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Come on, not really. Fonte's backpass was completely reasonable and actually, very well weighted. Forster didn't have to take a touch but had time to do so if he really wanted to. He just mucked up massively and there's nothing more to say. Agreed. If you look at the replays the ball hit his right foot first and bobbled up and he missed it with his left. A schoolboy howler, although I think that's pretty tough on schoolboys! It did change the course of the game. The reaction of Virgil shows his frustration at this team. Not the first time he's reacted like that. I bet he can't wait to get away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 (edited) Is this worse than the Hull, Sunderland, Prague "performances"? For me yes - this is/was a Palace side without a league clean sheet in 8 months and just lost 6 in a row They conceded 5 last week to Swansea FFS We managed 2 shots on target all game - embarrassing It was worse than Hull because we stuffed Hull and created loads of chances. I don't even know which Sunderland performance you mean? The one at the start of the season when the players were still learning the system or the one where our reserves humped them? Prague wasn't great but they'd beaten everyone else in the group and it says more about how good we were the first time. This one was pretty much what I expect from us when we go behind, we know how to pass a ball to kill a game but if we don't score when we've upped the tempo we just don't score. We've gone a bit too far the other way. Wasn't the shots on target stat I was bothered by, more that we also didn't have that many shots off target that looked like troubling the keeper. Forster's keeping error was just one of those things, thought it was a divot at first but found out it wasn't when talking to the match commentator on the train out of Thornton Heath of all things... the third goal was just a spawny deflection falling to Puncheon and we were screwed at that point. Having said that I put a bet on us to win at half time. But at the same time, it's hardly a surprise that the players are focused on Thursday and maybe a bit distracted, which is one of the club's biggest games of the past 15 years. I don't even mind losing at Palace if we get into the last 32 of the Europa League tbh. Edited 4 December, 2016 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Whilst the precious little snowflakes stamp their feet the vast majority, whilst disappointed to lose, do not consider it the end of the world or a crisis. I would suggest the snowflakes wander off to their safe space until mummy comes along to tell them it's all going to be better soon. Quite. "Forster needs to be sold", FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellzzy Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Puell and Prowse are the problem get rid asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Best thing for this season is to lose on Thursday and start concentrating on the home competitions. Bournemouth above us in the table.............congratulations to them. Our players aren't "playing for the shirt" at the moment because rotation means they get a game or get dropped, in turn with performance making little difference either way. We need to find our best XI again and establish some stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 Whilst the precious little snowflakes stamp their feet the vast majority, whilst disappointed to lose, do not consider it the end of the world or a crisis. I would suggest the snowflakes wander off to their safe space until mummy comes along to tell them it's all going to be better soon. It's even worse on twitter. No idea if any of them post on here but there are the same names who only seem to pop up on the #saintsfc feed when we lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 4 December, 2016 Share Posted 4 December, 2016 No meltdown here. Poor defensive display after the 1st goal which - and lets face it- sometimes happens. Goals change games and that undoubtedly did. Not the biggest fan of Forster (I don't think he commands his six yard box like a man of his size should) but he's saved us many times before. Likewise the defence for the most part this season have been excellent (Martina excluded). Not blaming Puel on rotation, either. You could argue up to this point its been kinda working. What does worry me is the lack of ruthlessness in front of goal. Austin aside, we're not taking the majority of chances that do come our way. Don't subscribe to the fact we are toothless upfront as we're constantly creating chances but as soon as it went 1-0 today, I worried about our ability to score two goals away from home to win the game (yes, know we did that against Arsenal on Wednesday, but it was the exception rather than the rule). Long needs something to go in off his knee or something. He's getting the chances and not putting them away. Redmond just needs to be more direct. Boufal looks a handful already. Win Thurs and Sun, this result is quickly forgotten. To be honest, I already have, Pretty much all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 (edited) Best thing for this season is to lose on Thursday and start concentrating on the home competitions. Bournemouth above us in the table.............congratulations to them. Our players aren't "playing for the shirt" at the moment because rotation means they get a game or get dropped, in turn with performance making little difference either way. We need to find our best XI again and establish some stability. Let's get out of the competition we desperately tried to qualify for, and one that gives the fans an outrageous amount of fun and memorable experiences. Fudge on a stick. I've come out with some nonsense on this forum but nothing like this from Mr. Professor. Europe has been the highlight of this season so far. Try going to a game or two you might enjoy it. The Europeans don't bite (unless you pay extra) Edited 5 December, 2016 by niceandfriendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Let's get out of the competition we desperately tried to qualify for, and one that gives the fans an outrageous amount of fun and memorable experiences. Fudge on a stick. I've come out with some nonsense on this forum but nothing like this from Mr. Professor. Europe has been the highlight of this season so far. Try going to a game or two you might enjoy it. The Europeans don't bite (unless you pay extra) It's a misnomer, he proves that time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 It's pretty simple really. With a squad our size/quality some games are going to be stinkers due to looking ahead or fatigue. Heck, we used to look at the fixtures and say "sweet Man C play us between their home and away against X in the champs, their heads will be elsewhere" or "Everton playing us 3 days after an away tie in Europe, will be tired". We got a lot of points off the back of teams playing in Europe before/after us. Same is true when the shoe is on the other foot. As a chubby Dutchman once said "thatssssshhhh football". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Best thing for this season is to lose on Thursday and start concentrating on the home competitions. Bournemouth above us in the table.............congratulations to them. Our players aren't "playing for the shirt" at the moment because rotation means they get a game or get dropped, in turn with performance making little difference either way. We need to find our best XI again and establish some stability. This season we have won 9 lost 7 drawn 7 which I think is good with a new manager a few injuries and lots of travel I think some fans should be more realistic we are mid table side with players who will sometimes make a mistake and sometimes the team will play badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Same is true when the shoe is on the other foot. As a chubby Dutchman once said "thatssssshhhh football". Even when hardly any players (2 outfield) play in those games. Really this is just a rubbish excuse that does not stand up to scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 It's pretty simple really. With a squad our size/quality some games are going to be stinkers due to looking ahead or fatigue. Heck, we used to look at the fixtures and say "sweet Man C play us between their home and away against X in the champs, their heads will be elsewhere" or "Everton playing us 3 days after an away tie in Europe, will be tired". We got a lot of points off the back of teams playing in Europe before/after us. Same is true when the shoe is on the other foot. As a chubby Dutchman once said "thatssssshhhh football". We've lost just one game immediately after the five EL ties played so far (Hull City) and three games immediately prior to EL ties. Of the games we lost prior to EL, Arsenal away was a good performance and a contested penalty winner and Chelsea was, well Chelsea. The stinkers have been Hull (after EL) and Crystal Palace (before EL). Whilst you cannot draw any firm conclusions from these stats I would suggest they do not provide any compelling evidence that European ties per se are a problem. This is borne out by stats over a longer period for several clubs as reported in the Times a few months ago. With Saints involved in all competitions, the finger is bound to be pointed at squad rotation. Rotation is necessary but may have its downsides in lack of continuity and momentum. It also has its positives. Won't list them but they are quite obvious, the best e.g being the opportunities afforded academy players. I think we can't identify as the culprit in isolation euro fixtures or rotation. There's probably a range of factors. I'd throw in two. Preparation time for matches is limited. E.g Thursday to Sunday before the loss at Hull and Wednesday to Saturday before the loss at Palace. Throw in traveling time and you don't have much time to prepare the team for the specific opponent. CP likes to play the same style irrespective of personnel but he is new to the PL and doesn't know the opposition. On the other hand our opponent is preparing to nullify us. Secondly, given the number and type of matches we are playing, are the players motivated for the likes of Hull and Palace (no disrespect but they are not the best)? Contrast with the up tempo performances against Everton (Koeman and post Prague rocket from the fans) and Arsenal (semi final at stake). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 We've lost just one game immediately after the five EL ties played so far (Hull City) and three games immediately prior to EL ties. Of the games we lost prior to EL, Arsenal away was a good performance and a contested penalty winner and Chelsea was, well Chelsea. The stinkers have been Hull (after EL) and Crystal Palace (before EL). Whilst you cannot draw any firm conclusions from these stats I would suggest they do not provide any compelling evidence that European ties per se are a problem. This is borne out by stats over a longer period for several clubs as reported in the Times a few months ago. With Saints involved in all competitions, the finger is bound to be pointed at squad rotation. Rotation is necessary but may have its downsides in lack of continuity and momentum. It also has its positives. Won't list them but they are quite obvious, the best e.g being the opportunities afforded academy players. I think we can't identify as the culprit in isolation euro fixtures or rotation. There's probably a range of factors. I'd throw in two. Preparation time for matches is limited. E.g Thursday to Sunday before the loss at Hull and Wednesday to Saturday before the loss at Palace. Throw in traveling time and you don't have much time to prepare the team for the specific opponent. CP likes to play the same style irrespective of personnel but he is new to the PL and doesn't know the opposition. On the other hand our opponent is preparing to nullify us. Secondly, given the number and type of matches we are playing, are the players motivated for the likes of Hull and Palace (no disrespect but they are not the best)? Contrast with the up tempo performances against Everton (Koeman and post Prague rocket from the fans) and Arsenal (semi final at stake). I beg to differ, many clubs have suffered by playing in Europe - Birmingham and Wigan actually went down when they were involved and since the inception of the league format only 4 teams from 12 have maintained their PL positions and they were the biggest clubs with the biggest squads ! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522055/The-Europa-League-bad-health-Premier-League-clubs-improve-it.html Pull has stated a couple of times that fitness per se is not the problem but that intensity and concentration is. I tend to agree with him ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 I beg to differ, many clubs have suffered by playing in Europe - Birmingham and Wigan actually went down when they were involved and since the inception of the league format only 4 teams from 12 have maintained their PL positions and they were the biggest clubs with the biggest squads ! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522055/The-Europa-League-bad-health-Premier-League-clubs-improve-it.html Pull has stated a couple of times that fitness per se is not the problem but that intensity and concentration is. I tend to agree with him ! Wigan were on a downward trajectory for years, that can't be blamed. Spurs had Europa League last year and had their best Premier League season for god knows how long and nearly won the thing! Of course it makes things more manic schedule wise but to blame poor performance on it has always been a complete cop out. Gary Neville blamed it for Man United's poor performances last week, whereas i'm sure he wouldn't be blaming the Champions League for if they were in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 I beg to differ, many clubs have suffered by playing in Europe - Birmingham and Wigan actually went down when they were involved and since the inception of the league format only 4 teams from 12 have maintained their PL positions and they were the biggest clubs with the biggest squads ! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522055/The-Europa-League-bad-health-Premier-League-clubs-improve-it.html Pull has stated a couple of times that fitness per se is not the problem but that intensity and concentration is. I tend to agree with him ! I haven't been able to read the Mail article in its entirety as it keeps crashing on my old iPad but they appear to be drawing conclusions from the failure of PL participants to qualify again for the EL in the following season. It may be there but what I didn't see is how the gems qualified for the EL in the first place. If it weren't through league position then maybe unlikely they'd achieve it through league position in the following season. See the attached myth buster (can't find the Times article due to firewall). I grant, there may be a distinction to be made between EL and CL and between squad sizes. But the Mail article looks like correlation not cause. Secondly, if Puel said that the problem is intensity and concentration, how can this be so when he makes so many changes? Surely those brought in are fresh. That's one of the reasons for rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35146716 Myth buster. That's my 3 posts done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 It doesn't even need to be rationalised with "too many games / rotation etc..". We are not a super-ruthless, league winning team. We will, from time to time, have bad days. Even if we were out of all the cups we would have bad days. Last season's team had bad days. This is not unique to Claude Puel. At no point this season have we played as badly as we did under Koeman away against Ipswich (lucky win), Midjtylland (dismal defeat), Sheff Utd (dismal defeat), Bournemouth (one of the worst league performances since we got promoted). It happens. We have one or two elite players and a lot of solid mid-table players. Last season our position flattered us because there was so much crap floating around in the league below us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35146716 Myth buster. That's my 3 posts done. TBF that article relates only to the 6 wealthiest clubs in the country (who always have the biggest/strongest squads) ! My point included, Fulham, Everton, Swansea, Newcastle, Wigan and Birmingham who are in a different category and all suffered ! Anyway, all about opinions and at least we have had a proper football discussion rather plumbing the depths of personal abuse which seems to have become the norm !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Let's get out of the competition we desperately tried to qualify for, and one that gives the fans an outrageous amount of fun and memorable experiences. Fudge on a stick. I've come out with some nonsense on this forum but nothing like this from Mr. Professor. Europe has been the highlight of this season so far. Try going to a game or two you might enjoy it. The Europeans don't bite (unless you pay extra) I've been saying for a long time that we need an early exit from Europe and the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 I've been saying for a long time that we need an early exit from Europe and the Cup. Why bother then having a team or supporting a team if we shouldn't play in each of the competitions out there for us. Here's an example of your logic. Hmm, it is a proven fact that the best marathon runners are the lightest. Therefore if I remove a bit of weight I will be lighter and run faster. Might as well then chop off my fingers and ears, that'll take a bit of weight off and therefore improve my race time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Why bother then having a team or supporting a team if we shouldn't play in each of the competitions out there for us. Here's an example of your logic. Hmm, it is a proven fact that the best marathon runners are the lightest. Therefore if I remove a bit of weight I will be lighter and run faster. Might as well then chop off my fingers and ears, that'll take a bit of weight off and therefore improve my race time. Because the biggest prize is the PL status. Never lose the punt for the pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboy Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Because the biggest prize is the PL status. Never lose the punt for the pole. Really, you don't want the glory of a cup win , a day at Wembley or somewhere in Europe watching saints in the europa league final , mush , that's weird premier league is important but finishing 17th as you like to put it , is more important to you than the excitement of a cup run . I suggest you find a new hobby , football is not for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 The Cherries showed one thing today that we didn't yesterday.FIGHT. 'Nuff said' Impressive performance from Bournemouth, well deserve the praise they received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 I beg to differ, many clubs have suffered by playing in Europe - Birmingham and Wigan actually went down when they were involved and since the inception of the league format only 4 teams from 12 have maintained their PL positions and they were the biggest clubs with the biggest squads ! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522055/The-Europa-League-bad-health-Premier-League-clubs-improve-it.html Pull has stated a couple of times that fitness per se is not the problem but that intensity and concentration is. I tend to agree with him ! PEDANTS CORNER. Wigan were already in the Championship when they played in Europe. They were relegated a couple of days after winning the F.A. Cup. They actually finished 5th in 2013/14 and lost in the play-off S/F to some Twitchy faced *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 .... Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 December, 2016 Share Posted 5 December, 2016 Really, you don't want the glory of a cup win , a day at Wembley or somewhere in Europe watching saints in the europa league final , mush , that's weird premier league is important but finishing 17th as you like to put it , is more important to you than the excitement of a cup run . I suggest you find a new hobby , football is not for you 17th or above. Very happy. You can keep the Cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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