ringwood Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 http://www.givemesport.com/1109184-liverpool-fans-in-meltdown-after-latest-philippe-coutinho-update?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/southampton/10963213/adkins-van-dijk-should-respect-contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Personally I'd let him go to LFC if a) they request to speak to him via the proper channels and b) they pay us what we value him at all up front and we have a 10% sell on fee. Are you a WUM, well even if you don't mean to be you are---what sort of message would that send to every other professional under contract.Just refuse to play and we all bow down to your wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 http://www.givemesport.com/1109184-liverpool-fans-in-meltdown-after-latest-philippe-coutinho-update?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted Ah bless them, my heart bleeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Ah bless them, my heart bleeds. [emoji38]Biter bit. [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Are you a WUM, well even if you don't mean to be you are---what sort of message would that send to every other professional under contract.Just refuse to play and we all bow down to your wishes. Obviously I've hit a raw nerve. And it means nothing of the sort as LFC have painted themselves into a corner as a) they have stated they are ending their interest and b) they won't meet our asking price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Personally I'd let him go to LFC if a) they request to speak to him via the proper channels and b) they pay us what we value him at all up front and we have a 10% sell on fee. Whilst you have a point you your 'a' and 'b' in the wrong order just like LFC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 As a fan I don't disagree with the sentiment but our players are employees of a football business, they're never going to feel the same way about the club as we do. In reality we're stuck between a rock and a hard place...I think Virgil will be here after the window closes but the guy clearly doesn't want to be here so I find it difficult to trust him if he stays. It's all well and good saying he'll knuckle down once the window shuts but is he prepared to make a last ditch tackle which he knows is going to get him clattered? Is he prepared to play when not 100% for the benefit of the team? I can foresee a season of supposed 'niggling injuries' preventing him from playing regularly. As I said I think he'll be here when the window shuts but unlike some I have big doubts as to whether he'll preform to the same level as the previous two seasons. But if he doesn't play to his best, how is he going to get the move to a top rich club that he so badly wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer saint Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 But if he doesn't play to his best, how is he going to get the move to a top rich club that he so badly wants? And he needs play to his best wherever that may be it's World Cup year coming up he's been injured sulking and on strike won't help him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 But if he doesn't play to his best, how is he going to get the move to a top rich club that he so badly wants?The only way he can be reintegrated is if he can tell his agent to p!ss off until next summer, forget about a move until then, realise there's nothing to be gained from sulking and tune back in to Saints. At the moment he's convinced he's moving (thanks to lowlife of an agent) so he's got no focus whatsoever on a season with Saints. I'm not sure he can do it, but he has to rewind and commit to performing as he can with an agreement that we won't stand in his way next summer, when Barcelona, PSG or Real Madrid come calling. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Agree with the above, As for Virgil I think we should sell now and get a replacement in.... No use in keeping him here to disrupt other players. Get as much money as we can and get a suitable replacement in. Easy to say, however what you forget is this.... We will set a potentially very damaging president by letting a striking player get his way. This open up a gateway for any other player to do exactly the same. This casual regard to player power could cost us very dearly indeed in future so be very careful when you offer flippant solutions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 I think there is a difference between a club speaking to an agent and finding out what sort of terms they would be looking for, and whether they would be interested in a move, before contacting the club to discuss transfer fee etc, and getting the manager to meet with the player to convince him to join said club, getting into the head of the player/agent that a move is on the cards. This is not correct and is one of the ways that 'tapping up' is done. Speaking to an agent amounts to speaking to the player. It is an 'approach' and under FA rules is only permitted AFTER obtaining permission of the club holding the player's registration. That it goes on doesn't make it right, or something to ignore. Shoplifting goes on but is still illegal. That Liverpool have shoplifted in Southampton before and got away with it shows that if a stand isn't taken against wrongdoing, the wrongdoers are encouraged. It is to be hoped that the club do stand firm this time and that talk of one more season is discouraged when we have the player on a contract until he is 31 in 2022. That doesn't prevent a sale if an acceptable offer is received but it is offer and acceptance FIRST, then discussion with the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyell Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Easy to say, however what you forget is this.... We will set a potentially very damaging president by letting a striking player get his way. This open up a gateway for any other player to do exactly the same. This casual regard to player power could cost us very dearly indeed in future so be very careful when you offer flippant solutions.... We already basically did that with Lovren and Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 This is not correct and is one of the ways that 'tapping up' is done. Speaking to an agent amounts to speaking to the player. It is an 'approach' and under FA rules is only permitted AFTER obtaining permission of the club holding the player's registration. That it goes on doesn't make it right, or something to ignore. Shoplifting goes on but is still illegal. That Liverpool have shoplifted in Southampton before and got away with it shows that if a stand isn't taken against wrongdoing, the wrongdoers are encouraged. It is to be hoped that the club do stand firm this time and that talk of one more season is discouraged when we have the player on a contract until he is 31 in 2022. That doesn't prevent a sale if an acceptable offer is received but it is offer and acceptance FIRST, then discussion with the player. I think that some level of communication between team and agent is generally accepted as how things are done by most football clubs. Yes it is tapping up because when you talk to an agent you are talking to the player. Liverpool took it to the next level with the direct communications between Klopp and VVD. Even then they would have got away with it. I expect that a close examination of the Mane transfer might reveal something similar. It was the timed release of information to their regular contacts in the press describing how Klopp tapped up VVD that did them in. It was arrogant, disrespectful, disruptive, and infuriating. Hopefully it costs them their chance to sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 As a Commercial Director I have a very basic principle - Don't negotiate with terrorists. If a club is prepared to pay a fee we see as fair value, fine - he can go. VVD's actions are seeking to bully us into lowering our bar and conditioning us fans to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 We already basically did that with Lovren and Lallana. We got Good and Fair value respectively for those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimborne_saint Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Virgil liked a Southampton tweet - He must be staying!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step. I don't think so, we've never not sold for fair value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Wanting more pay is understandable in 'his world', buwantibgbout and t refusing to play so soon after signing a new 6 year contract is unacceptable in any world IMO. He didn't have to sign. Totally agree, but I wasn't claiming otherwise, Mr X's post was purely that "£60k pw is more than enough, why would he want more?" so I was offering a different perspective. At no point have I defended his current stance, and in fact I find it totally repulsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 This is not correct and is one of the ways that 'tapping up' is done. Speaking to an agent amounts to speaking to the player. It is an 'approach' and under FA rules is only permitted AFTER obtaining permission of the club holding the player's registration. That it goes on doesn't make it right, or something to ignore. Shoplifting goes on but is still illegal. That Liverpool have shoplifted in Southampton before and got away with it shows that if a stand isn't taken against wrongdoing, the wrongdoers are encouraged. It is to be hoped that the club do stand firm this time and that talk of one more season is discouraged when we have the player on a contract until he is 31 in 2022. That doesn't prevent a sale if an acceptable offer is received but it is offer and acceptance FIRST, then discussion with the player. I haven't said it's legal or correct, but being pragmatic about the situation, there is quite clearly a difference between 'exploring/investigating options' and actively pursuing a player and setting up meetings as a way to lure them to the club. Yes it would be nice if there were no tapping up whatsoever, but it's very difficult to police that. That doesn't mean I think it's ok, but sometimes you have to focus on the more serious end of a problem because you wouldn't get anywhere if you tried to clamp down on every single instance. You'd probably find that clamping down harder on the more serious instances would also reduce the other instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 We already basically did that with Lovren and Lallana. Precisely and look where it has taken us..... I rest my case ma lord ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step. Did Morgan or Victor put off new transfers off when we said no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step. What stance is that? I'm not sure who we're supposed to be selling him to if no-one is making a bid? Or are you expecting us to give our players away whenever another team comes asking? I'm confident that if someone met our asking price he'd be on his way. The issue is really with Liverpools completely unprofessional manner of dealing with both the player and ourselves, the unprofessionalism which seems to have rubbed off on Van Dijk with his current behaviour. He's our player and he has a price like any asset and that is a price we, as his employer and holder of his contract are allowed to set, any player signing a contract should be aware of that and i'm sure it would be no different at any other club. This is of course negotiable but Liverpool have done their best to try and not deal directly with us leading to the current predicament. Besides, who out there is a better stepping stone club in the prem? I think our record of selling players to the top 6 teams speaks for itself. Even the players that stay tend to get International recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 (edited) Did Morgan or Victor put off new transfers off when we said no... Right from the start I've thought this stance was weird. When they're signing a new contract, they're signing it to play for US. They're less likely to if we've been selling our best players. VvD himself signed the 6 year contract because he could see the club was improving. Edited 26 July, 2017 by Jimmy_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKsaint Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 I think that some level of communication between team and agent is generally accepted as how things are done by most football clubs. Yes it is tapping up because when you talk to an agent you are talking to the player. Liverpool took it to the next level with the direct communications between Klopp and VVD. Even then they would have got away with it. I expect that a close examination of the Mane transfer might reveal something similar. It was the timed release of information to their regular contacts in the press describing how Klopp tapped up VVD that did them in. It was arrogant, disrespectful, disruptive, and infuriating. Hopefully it costs them their chance to sign him. What is the damage of tapping? What if in an extreme case, VVD has agreed not to join any other clubs except Liverpool in consideration that he will get 50% of the difference between £70 million market value and the bargain due to his loyalty? That will be a lot of money and only idiot will go to Barcelona and not take that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 26 July, 2017 Share Posted 26 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step.This is what I had been thinking also . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Does our stance on VVD put off prospective transfer targets from joining? A stepping stone club isn't so attractive if you cannot leave when you wish to step. No. It merely says that when we come to you with a improved long term contract offer you need to understand that you are agreeing to stay longer than you would have under your old contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 signing a long contract is just one of the new ways of clubs trying to prevent players running down their contracts and leaving for a reduced fee with 1 year to go or on a free when it finishes. So a tactic to keep the transfer value of the player high . It does not imply anymore that the player wants to stay at a club for years as we used to think ! Perhaps Sakho will be part of the deal so he can get his international career back on track (before moving on in 2 seasons time of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 signing a long contract is just one of the new ways of clubs trying to prevent players running down their contracts and leaving for a reduced fee with 1 year to go or on a free when it finishes. So a tactic to keep the transfer value of the player high . It does not imply anymore that the player wants to stay at a club for years as we used to think ! Perhaps Sakho will be part of the deal so he can get his international career back on track (before moving on in 2 seasons time of course) No, but you would presume that in (probably) paying a lump of cash as well for signing said contract, Uncle Les would have re-set his expectations on our ambitions for him and the Club. You also have to presume by our re-action that they went beyond giving us 5 months playing time. You can imagine his new agents dissing his previous agent for getting him to sign the deal and explaining how they can get him out of it and in to a nice new shiny one with Klipperty Klopp, and keep his bonus, and get a big new signing on fee, and a pay rise. I know football is more of a business these days than a sport, but the longer term interest of the club are in not letting him get his way. Stand firm Les, Stand firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 signing a long contract is just one of the new ways of clubs trying to prevent players running down their contracts and leaving for a reduced fee with 1 year to go or on a free when it finishes. So a tactic to keep the transfer value of the player high . It does not imply anymore that the player wants to stay at a club for years as we used to think ! Perhaps Sakho will be part of the deal so he can get his international career back on track (before moving on in 2 seasons time of course) A contract extension is about asset value but it also delays the point where you have to sell and VVD knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Seems like the echo is really prepping us for the move now. This sodding club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADutchSaint Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 No. It merely says that when we come to you with a improved long term contract offer you need to understand that you are agreeing to stay longer than you would have under your old contract. His old contract was until 2020, so with his old contract you think the club would let him go now? Highly doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Seems like the echo is really prepping us for the move now. This sodding club. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 No. It merely says that when we come to you with a improved long term contract offer you need to understand that you are agreeing to stay longer than you would have under your old contract. Absolutely. The club wouldn't have offered him a lucrative contract extension just a year ago if they really believed he would then demand a move a few months later (January I understand this all started). If they thought this was still a possibility after the new terms were agreed they wouldn't have bothered and saved themselves a small fortune in 12 months of vastly increased wages for the ungrateful fella (6 months of which he hasn't even played). Van Dijk happily took the money, the commitment and the responsibility of captain (a fine example that's turned out) - the player and his agent are the only villains here, imo. https://southamptonfc.com/news/2016-05-07/van-dijk-signs-new-six-year-contract-with-saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Lol VVD gets support from..... Peter Odemwingie.... ? https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAoRqY4?m=en-gb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Seems like the echo is really prepping us for the move now. This sodding club. If you are referring to this http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/15435813.Should_Saints_sell_van_Dijk_or_try_to_repeat_previous_transfer_delays_/ then I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion. I read it as quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 If you are referring to this http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/15435813.Should_Saints_sell_van_Dijk_or_try_to_repeat_previous_transfer_delays_/ then I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion. I read it as quite the opposite. Saints don’t have a huge budget and have been very conservative in the transfer window so far Could of fooled me? ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavis17 Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Seems like the echo is really prepping us for the move now. This sodding club. The club definitely don't brief the Echo on things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 We should sign more players like Shane Long, and get rid of this tapping-up malarkey once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveloyMush Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Would you spend £70+m on potentially damaged goods? I am sure there would be interest from other top, top clubs in Virgil, had he played since his injury. As it is, both Saints and any potential suitor are spinning the wheel of fortune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 A Van Dijk happily took the money, the commitment and the responsibility of captain (a fine example that's turned out) - the player and his agent are the only villains here, imo. I wonder whether it will enter the equation now when choosing potential new signings increasingly to take into account who their agents are, and to be wary of those players represented by the likes of Virgil's agents, the Wasserman Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 http://anfieldindex.com/28817/coutinho-van-dijk-keita-hypocrisy.html Here's a novelty; an even-handed and sensible Liverpool fan with a degree of humility usually lacking in the species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Seems like the echo is really prepping us for the move now. This sodding club.That's totally wrong. They're pointing out how Saints have successfully delayed departures, and suggesting they will do it again with VVD. Really no idea how you think this is prepping the way for him leaving, unless you've only read the headline, not the article. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 I wonder whether it will enter the equation now when choosing potential new signings increasingly to take into account who their agents are, and to be wary of those players represented by the likes of Virgil's agents, the Wasserman Group.But, like Virgil, they can swap agents after they arrive. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Albeit it won't help, I quite enjoyed Adkins' comments, telling VVD to show some respect. Spot on. But as I say, won't make a blind bit of difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 We should sign more players like Shane Long, and get rid of this tapping-up malarkey once and for all.that's an odd thing to say, unlike you Hutch. When you sign a player you don't know who is likely to be tapped up. Shane Long in the last part of RK's reign looked a world beater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 that's an odd thing to say, unlike you Hutch. When you sign a player you don't know who is likely to be tapped up. Shane Long in the last part of RK's reign looked a world beater Wasn't Long being strongly linked with Liverpool before he signed his new deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 that's an odd thing to say, unlike you Hutch. When you sign a player you don't know who is likely to be tapped up. Shane Long in the last part of RK's reign looked a world beater Hahahaha! Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 27 July, 2017 Share Posted 27 July, 2017 Hi Virgil. I think we need to talk. I'm really not quite sure how we got into this mess. Less than 12 months ago you were well on the way to being a Saints hero and legend, signing up for six years, team captain, saying how Southampton was a team on the up, and how much you wanted to win things with them. The fans loved you. Strange thing is, it's reported that you now want to leave to get just those things with another club, who actually haven't won anything recently. I don't know what vision of that club you've been sold, but there's no doubt you've been badly advised and conned. If you really want to move on, a bit of patience will see you at a proper top club, and I'm pretty sure most Saints fans would wish you well at Barcelona, Real Madrid or even Chelsea. But at the moment, it's all going a bit pear-shaped, isn't it? You've certainly upset plenty of us Saints fans. You've been really badly advised, letting yourself be talked into meeting a certain gentleman from Liverpool and so getting him and his club into trouble and really messing up any chance of you moving there, if that's what you actually want. And where's this attitude thing come from. Agent told you to do it? Not working, is it? Liverpool have to back off because of the way they behaved earlier, so no matter how many of their pals say they expect you to go there, it ain't going to happen unless Saints want it, which they keep reminding you they don't. This refusing to play is really going to help your career. I notice there haven't been any offers or enquiries about you. Probably because you made too much noise about only wanting one club, and a lot of clubs will think twice about going in for someone who hasn't played for six months, may or may not be injured and is showing a serious attitude problem. If a player's in the habit of striking, do we want him? Will he do it to us next? I'm sure you won't read this, Virgil, but you need to do some thinking and get your head straight. There's a right and wrong way of getting a move, and you've got it seriously wrong. I don't know if you will get a move - looks unlikely to me, and if not, how you're going to win Saints fans back over. One thing is certain: if you eventually want to get the big move, you're going to have to show a bit of commitment and loyalty and demonstrate what a brilliant player you are. And remember, you want to win things with Saints - you said it - so now's your chance. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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