Puel the Tinkerman - it's not working

[Heisenberg]

Have you ever played football? Whilst i agree playing 3 games over a 2 week period should not be a major problem but for 8 months it is

 

Hi Nick, yes I did play football. Played for Christchurch for 8 seasons and would play 40+ games a season including friendlies and cup games

 

I was not a full time athlete but would happily and willingly play 3 games a week, some times on bog pitches not the lush and flat surfaces professionals would be used to.

 

I think you are seriously underestimating the teams fitness if you genuinely think these guys can't play 50 competitive games a year.

 

Andy Murray plays over 100 competitive matches of tennis a year - these tennis matches average 2+ hours each and he does far more travel than our lads

[Leyton Lundekvam]

 

I think you are seriously underestimating the teams fitness if you genuinely think these guys can't play 50 competitive games a year.

 

 

It's not that they can't play 50 games a year. It's that they can't do so without inevitably losing optimum physical condition over time. It's about managing effort sensibly. It's about recognising that forthcoming opponents are not playing European midweek games and so are at an advantage.

[Baird of the land]

Don't agree, think rotation is pretty much essential given the number of games we have. It's worked well earlier in the season.

It's still very much in our hands to qualify in europe with one home game to go.

I personally have more problems with the one dimensional way we are playing than the personnel we are playing.

[shurlock]

There's much of a muchness about our side. With the exception of two or three players, it's hard to claim that rotating players leads to a significant drop off in quality (continuity is another matter). You could effectively pick the midfield by drawing lots. The glass half full interpretation is that we have strength in depth; the less charitable spin is that we have accumulated quite a bit of mediocrity.

[trousers]

I did play football. Played for Christchurch for 8 seasons

 

1970s?

 

[Heisenberg]

1970s?

 

 

I was born in the 70's cheeky monkey Trousers

[derry]

The goals have dried up because we are ultra cautious in a narrow static midfield playing slow passing, sideways and backwards possession for the sake of it, in front of eleven opponents eventually getting the full backs forward to mostly hit into the outnumbered forward in the box. Redmond is part of the problem, where we need a run into the box he sits on his heels waiting to see what happens. He is messing up the attack. Unless we are going to play him as a winger he needs leaving out. We have forwards but they do not suit the way we play. It's not rocket science play to our strengths not neutering the forwards asking them to cover the full backs. This manager will be gone in due course unless he changes his approach. 5 goals from play in 11 matches is a relegation statistic.

[St Marco]

The goals have dried up because we are ultra cautious in a narrow static midfield playing slow passing, sideways and backwards possession for the sake of it, in front of eleven opponents eventually getting the full backs forward to mostly hit into the outnumbered forward in the box. Redmond is part of the problem, where we need a run into the box he sits on his heels waiting to see what happens. He is messing up the attack. Unless we are going to play him as a winger he needs leaving out. We have forwards but they do not suit the way we play. It's not rocket science play to our strengths not neutering the forwards asking them to cover the full backs. This manager will be gone in due course unless he changes his approach. 5 goals from play in 11 matches is a relegation statistic.

 

Pretty much agree with what you have said.

 

But I think the problem is a lot deeper than that. Last night we had 3 shots on target. Granted they were not good shots but they were counted either way. 1 Of those shots was from Mcqueen and one from Clasie. The other was Austin.

Now having a look at Opta we are not creating chances at all. Austin and Redmond both average 2 shots per game as does Tadic. We have a grand total of 3 assists this season. That is pathetic. One from a corner, one from a free kick and one from a through ball.

To put that into some kind of perspective in the assist table we are bottom. We would need to double that just to get to 18th in that table. The top team (Liverpool) have 25. Only 2 of those were from set pieces.

The question is how have we gone from a free flowing team that could create multiple chances and put a lot of them away. To a team that passes around the half way line, back to the defence and then have no clue how to get the ball forwards?

 

Personally I think it is down to having too many similar players in midfield. Hojberg, Clasie, Romeu and Davis all basically do the same thing. None of them are really creators. That leaves JWP as the one to be the creator. The problem is he can't do that. He averages 0.5 key passes a game. Our top player (Tadic) has an average of 3. Redmond, Long, Austin and Boufal have a total of under 3 between them. Which shows Tadic is having to be the main guy. Which means it is no surprise we fail to create anything when he doesn't play. Nobody else has his ability on the ball and then actually come up with an end product.

 

Right now I feel our tactics is to ultimately not lose the game. Keep tight and maybe hit on the counter. The problem is once we go behind that tactic goes out the window. And as of yet I have not seen anything to suggest we have a plan B. It is all too predictable. The subs who come on do the same job as those who they replace. A defensive midfielder for a defensive midfielder. A slow attacker for a slow attacker. Our options are very limited in how to change a game. Basically we failed to recruit players anywhere near the standard of the ones we lost this summer. Add to that the average ones from the season before and you have a makings of a very average team.

[Dr. Kucho]

Hi Nick, yes I did play football. Played for Christchurch for 8 seasons and would play 40+ games a season including friendlies and cup games

 

I was not a full time athlete but would happily and willingly play 3 games a week, some times on bog pitches not the lush and flat surfaces professionals would be used to.

 

I think you are seriously underestimating the teams fitness if you genuinely think these guys can't play 50 competitive games a year.

 

Andy Murray plays over 100 competitive matches of tennis a year - these tennis matches average 2+ hours each and he does far more travel than our lads

 

I pity your stupidity.

 

However if you werent trolling (seems unlikely), Ill explain the reason why Claude rotates the squad.

 

After 90 minutes of playing football the players will be exhausted, this is not Sunday league where the intensity and speed is much lower. Once the match ends, the recovery process starts. The muscles will be sore and the players will be in pain after recieving kicks and being pushed around quite a bit. Muscle pain (DOMS) takes between 48 and 72 hours to recover, lets say we play on Saturday, that will bring us till Tuesday. massaging might speed the recovery, but wont speed the recovery of the CNS (central nervous system).

 

That brings us to the next point. The CNS takes more time to recover and if we dont give the CNS the time it needs, overtraining occurs. With overtraining the player would start to lose concentration, feel tired, lose sleep (essential for a good recovery) and be more prone to injuries. So if we play Saturday, Thursday and Sunday you see that would simply be too much for a player.

 

In this day and age of football the players have to be quick, strong and able to give 100% for 90 minutes. You can pay them as much as you want, some players have the body and strength to play well in to their thirties, whilst others (think of Robben, Ledley King, Pahars etc) are very talented but dont have the body and strength to cope with the high demands of modern football. You can bring in the best physiotherapists, sports scientists and coaches, but you cant change someones bodytype, joints or nervous system.

 

I do believe with the amount of muscle related injuries we have had, our strength and medical team could do with being reviewed (I could be wide of the mark as I dont know the medical facts and the training the players do).

[Greenridge]

VvD has played 17 games this season and runs around more than most in our squad. How is it that he doesn't need to be 'rotated'?

[shurlock]

VvD has played 17 games this season and runs around more than most in our squad. How is it that he doesn't need to be 'rotated'?

 

Likewise Romeu has started most games. No coincidence that he and VVD have been our best players this season. Possibly Puel doesn't believe there's much to choose in terms of quality between the rest of the squad.

[Dr. Kucho]

VvD has played 17 games this season and runs around more than most in our squad. How is it that he doesn't need to be 'rotated'?

 

Could be down to several things. VvD is 25 years old, the younger you are, the faster your body can recover. If we compare Redmond to VvD, you see that Redmond has to make more sprints (anarobic exercise) during the match, where as VvD sprints less, but runs more (aerobic exercise). I dont know VvD,s medical records, however if it shows he recovers well and his body can handle the intensity, the club are right to play him. And finally, he is our best player by a mile.

[saintant]

How do tennis players manage to play every other day for a fortnight at major tournaments? Some matches last 2-3 hours which is quite a bit longer than 90 minutes often in extreme heat and I would imagine they do far more intense sprints, twist and turns than your average footballer. From what I've seen of Saints the players spend a lot of time stood around so it's not as though they are on the go for the whole 90 minutes.Maybe tennis players are super-humans.

[Dusic]

Could be down to several things. VvD is 25 years old, the younger you are, the faster your body can recover. If we compare Redmond to VvD, you see that Redmond has to make more sprints (anarobic exercise) during the match, where as VvD sprints less, but runs more (aerobic exercise). I dont know VvD,s medical records, however if it shows he recovers well and his body can handle the intensity, the club are right to play him. And finally, he is our best player by a mile.

Its because we need him in the team to win games because we only have 3 PL quality CBs and one of them is getting older.

[Heisenberg]

Leicesters "black box" must include a 'recovery' filter as they seem to manage

 

In fact most clubs and players seem to manage

 

We seem to be the only club that needs to make 5-7 changes each game, but I'm sure you're right I'm just stupid and don't understand football

 

VVD plays most games but he's "just different" It's so hard to keep up

[Greenridge]

How do tennis players manage to play every other day for a fortnight at major tournaments? Some matches last 2-3 hours which is quite a bit longer than 90 minutes often in extreme heat and I would imagine they do far more intense sprints, twist and turns than your average footballer. From what I've seen of Saints the players spend a lot of time stood around so it's not as though they are on the go for the whole 90 minutes.Maybe tennis players are super-humans.

 

Sometimes it's not actually Andy playing, it's Jamie. They rotate. It was Judy's idea.

[Fabrice29]

Leicesters "black box" must include a 'recovery' filter as they seem to manage

 

In fact most clubs and players seem to manage

 

We seem to be the only club that needs to make 5-7 changes each game, but I'm sure you're right I'm just stupid and don't understand football

 

VVD plays most games but he's "just different" It's so hard to keep up

 

Do they? Are Leicester managing?

 

Spurs do make quite a lot of changes and I would rather cheekily suggest that a couple of their "injuries" have been strategically timed or prolonged in one or two instances.

 

Oh and some players have different recovery times and abilities. That's the body for you.

[Heisenberg]

Do they? Are Leicester managing?

 

Spurs do make quite a lot of changes and I would rather cheekily suggest that a couple of their "injuries" have been strategically timed or prolonged in one or two instances.

 

Oh and some players have different recovery times and abilities. That's the body for you.

 

 

Leicester have just walked there champions league group and spurs have not lost a league game all season

 

Not to shabby? If you're still not convinced I'll raise you Man City and Arsenal - they average 2/3 changes per champions league game.

 

Also still to understand why superman Andy Murray can play 100+ tennis matches and fly around the globe almost non stop but our little princesses are built for 25-30 games per season

 

Let's not even consider that the ball is only actually in play 60 mins (average) per game, so we are talking about 30 hours work a year!?!

[Fabrice29]

Leicester have just walked there champions league group and spurs have not lost a league game all season

 

Not to shabby? If you're still not convinced I'll raise you Man City and Arsenal - they average 2/3 changes per champions league game.

 

Also still to understand why superman Andy Murray can play 100+ tennis matches and fly around the globe almost non stop but our little princesses are built for 25-30 games per season

 

Let's not even consider that the ball is only actually in play 60 mins (average) per game, so we are talking about 30 hours work a year!?!

 

Leicester are struggling in the league and Spurs have been knocked out of the Champions league. City and Arsenal have plenty more experience than us, Leicester or Spurs in this format. I'm sure you know the difference really and are just being a bit thick for the purposes of being annoyed. Your last two comments go to prove that, and no I wont explain why, you'll just have to go on in you're life being rather thick and not being unable to understand things.

[Dr. Kucho]

Leicester have just walked there champions league group and spurs have not lost a league game all season

 

Not to shabby? If you're still not convinced I'll raise you Man City and Arsenal - they average 2/3 changes per champions league game.

 

Also still to understand why superman Andy Murray can play 100+ tennis matches and fly around the globe almost non stop but our little princesses are built for 25-30 games per season

 

Let's not even consider that the ball is only actually in play 60 mins (average) per game, so we are talking about 30 hours work a year!?!

 

You don't understand why 'superman' Andy Murray can play more games then our players. Well let's compare Murray to our players.

 

How many 30/40/50 meter sprints does Murray do during a tennis match?

How often is Murray on the receiving end of a crunching tackle?

How many kicks against the knees and ankles does Murray get during a match?

How often is Murray dragged, pulled and pushed around during a match?

How many sliding tackles does Murray make during a match (with the risk that someone stamps on his leg)?

 

Once you have answered these questions, you will realize that comparing tennis players to footballers doesn't make sense. They are 2 completely different sports, and football is way harder for the body. And so the players need more time to recover.

 

Well there you Glasgow/Heisenberg, loads of bites tonight from us.

[CB Fry]

But the Brownlee brothers can run, swim and cycle miles and miles and miles THE SAME DAY so why can't Jose Fonte play three games in a week?????? :-/ :- S :-0

[CB Fry]

How come the Tour De France is, like, EVERY DAY but Charlie Austin can't play Saturday and Thursday?? HUH??????

[CB Fry]

EDDIE IZZARD DONE TWENTY SIX MARATHONS IN TWENTY SIX DAYS.

[CB Fry]

Rocket Ronnie when he wins the snooker and everything he was like playing on Tuesday, then again on the Wednesday and then again all the way through to Sunday. Two or three sessions a day too. I'd like to see Steven Davis cope at the Crucible.

[egg]

Rocket Ronnie when he wins the snooker and everything he was like playing on Tuesday, then again on the Wednesday and then again all the way through to Sunday. Two or three sessions a day too. I'd like to see Steven Davis cope at the Crucible.

 

Fair points CB. Footy players run 10k ish a match, in 90 minutes. That's slower than some of the fatties in my running club, and they do it at least twice a week and go to work and do an actual job too.

[Heisenberg]

Ok so let's summarise

 

Tennis is easy

Football is more physical than rugby apparently

VVD can play twice a week he's "different"

our team is full of softies

John Terry played ever game (every minute) in 14/2015 season he's also "different" but aged 35

we need to make 7 changes each game - nobody is sure why

snooker is exhausting for CB Fry

our players are dragged, pushed and pulled every game but other team players aren't

we have serious fitness issues at the club and players need to be wrapped in cotton wool

[Turkish]

How come cricketers can play for 8 hours 5 days in a row at international level but our pathetic footballers can't play twice in a week for 90 minutes?

[Saint Billy]

How come everyone else in life can work 5 days or more a week including those who do very physical jobs and risk injury and who get paid a pittance compared to footballers, but most of our team can't do two!.

Edited 26 November, 2016 by Saint Billy

[trousers]

Textbook

[Saint Billy]

Textbook

 

What is?.

[skintsaint]

I'd give him a season at least...

[nta786]

The hilarious thing is that if Puel had been playing the same XI every match then Heisenburg will be ranting about how Puel isn't rotating enough if results weren't going our way

 

Whatever suits his agenda I guess

[Supersubpuckett]

Pretty much agree with what you have said.

 

But I think the problem is a lot deeper than that. Last night we had 3 shots on target. Granted they were not good shots but they were counted either way. 1 Of those shots was from Mcqueen and one from Clasie. The other was Austin.

Now having a look at Opta we are not creating chances at all. Austin and Redmond both average 2 shots per game as does Tadic. We have a grand total of 3 assists this season. That is pathetic. One from a corner, one from a free kick and one from a through ball.

To put that into some kind of perspective in the assist table we are bottom. We would need to double that just to get to 18th in that table. The top team (Liverpool) have 25. Only 2 of those were from set pieces.

The question is how have we gone from a free flowing team that could create multiple chances and put a lot of them away. To a team that passes around the half way line, back to the defence and then have no clue how to get the ball forwards?

 

Personally I think it is down to having too many similar players in midfield. Hojberg, Clasie, Romeu and Davis all basically do the same thing. None of them are really creators. That leaves JWP as the one to be the creator. The problem is he can't do that. He averages 0.5 key passes a game. Our top player (Tadic) has an average of 3. Redmond, Long, Austin and Boufal have a total of under 3 between them. Which shows Tadic is having to be the main guy. Which means it is no surprise we fail to create anything when he doesn't play. Nobody else has his ability on the ball and then actually come up with an end product.

 

Right now I feel our tactics is to ultimately not lose the game. Keep tight and maybe hit on the counter. The problem is once we go behind that tactic goes out the window. And as of yet I have not seen anything to suggest we have a plan B. It is all too predictable. The subs who come on do the same job as those who they replace. A defensive midfielder for a defensive midfielder. A slow attacker for a slow attacker. Our options are very limited in how to change a game. Basically we failed to recruit players anywhere near the standard of the ones we lost this summer. Add to that the average ones from the season before and you have a makings of a very average team.

 

100% agree - whats even more concerning is the players don't seem convinced by what they're being asked to do. The guys on soccer saturday have just done a bit on our style of play....basically saying we're not pushing enough men forward and that other sides have clearly worked out how to walk through our midfield leaving the defenders with plenty to deal with.

[danjosaint]

But everybody but Puel can c this

[baggytrousers]

Pretty much agree with what you have said.

 

But I think the problem is a lot deeper than that. Last night we had 3 shots on target. Granted they were not good shots but they were counted either way. 1 Of those shots was from Mcqueen and one from Clasie. The other was Austin.

Now having a look at Opta we are not creating chances at all. Austin and Redmond both average 2 shots per game as does Tadic. We have a grand total of 3 assists this season. That is pathetic. One from a corner, one from a free kick and one from a through ball.

To put that into some kind of perspective in the assist table we are bottom. We would need to double that just to get to 18th in that table. The top team (Liverpool) have 25. Only 2 of those were from set pieces.

The question is how have we gone from a free flowing team that could create multiple chances and put a lot of them away. To a team that passes around the half way line, back to the defence and then have no clue how to get the ball forwards?

 

Personally I think it is down to having too many similar players in midfield. Hojberg, Clasie, Romeu and Davis all basically do the same thing. None of them are really creators. That leaves JWP as the one to be the creator. The problem is he can't do that. He averages 0.5 key passes a game. Our top player (Tadic) has an average of 3. Redmond, Long, Austin and Boufal have a total of under 3 between them. Which shows Tadic is having to be the main guy. Which means it is no surprise we fail to create anything when he doesn't play. Nobody else has his ability on the ball and then actually come up with an end product.

 

Right now I feel our tactics is to ultimately not lose the game. Keep tight and maybe hit on the counter. The problem is once we go behind that tactic goes out the window. And as of yet I have not seen anything to suggest we have a plan B. It is all too predictable. The subs who come on do the same job as those who they replace. A defensive midfielder for a defensive midfielder. A slow attacker for a slow attacker. Our options are very limited in how to change a game. Basically we failed to recruit players anywhere near the standard of the ones we lost this summer. Add to that the average ones from the season before and you have a makings of a very average team.

 

Just had a look at the Premier League site's official table for shots on target and we are 6th :

 

 

Rank Club Stat

1. Manchester City 228

2. Liverpool 225

3. Tottenham Hotspur 209

4. Manchester United 203

5. Chelsea 199

6. Southampton 184

7. Arsenal 172

8. Crystal Palace 171

9. West Ham United 171

10. Everton 159

11. AFC Bournemouth 146

12. Stoke City 146

13. Swansea City 135

14. Watford 135

15. West Bromwich Albion 134

16. Leicester City 127

17. Hull City 112

18. Burnley 110

19. Middlesbrough 110

20. Sunderland 109

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att?se=54

 

Doesn't quite correlate with your overly pessimistic version of events but seems about right to me. Our problem has surely been that we haven't been our conversion ratio. Too many good chances getting missed.

[whelk]

Leicester have mastered this lack of rotation business

[saint lard]

Puel out....

Klinsmann in please.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

That leaves JWP as the one to be the creator. The problem is he can't do that. He averages 0.5 key passes a game. Our top player (Tadic) has an average of 3. Redmond, Long, Austin and Boufal have a total of under 3 between them. Which shows Tadic is having to be the main guy. Which means it is no surprise we fail to create anything when he doesn't play. Nobody else has his ability on the ball and then actually come up with an end product. .

 

I don't really care about stats but a quick glance at "key passes" (whatever they are) shows Tadic is in the joint third in the league with 2.8 (Payet and KDB the only two better than him). And Redmond, with his "under 3" score (1.9) is actually 17th in the country alongside Hazard and Lamela (both 2.0) and Lukaku (1.. So Saints have 2 in the top twenty, which maths suggests is better than the majority of Premier League clubs. Odd you've picked that one to get upset about.

 

As a previous poster suggests, it looks like you are cherry picking stats, or in this case wilfully misreading them. Obviously we do have a problem, but clearly it is conversion of chances rather than creating them. We are a clinical finisher away from being excellent again. Or, in the short term, Long finding something resembling goalscoring form.

[Verbal Kint]

I don't really care about stats but a quick glance at "key passes" (whatever they are) shows Tadic is in the joint third in the league with 2.8 (Payet and KDB the only two better than him). And Redmond, with his "under 3" score (1.9) is actually 17th in the country alongside Hazard and Lamela (both 2.0) and Lukaku (1.. So Saints have 2 in the top twenty, which maths suggests is better than the majority of Premier League clubs. Odd you've picked that one to get upset about.

 

As a previous poster suggests, it looks like you are cherry picking stats, or in this case wilfully misreading them. Obviously we do have a problem, but clearly it is conversion of chances rather than creating them. We are a clinical finisher away from being excellent again. Or, in the short term, Long finding something resembling goalscoring form.

 

A "key pass" is defined by most of these stats sites as a pass that leads to any attempt on goal. That definition alone shows how meaningless these stats are

[Saint_clark]

A "key pass" is defined by most of these stats sites as a pass that leads to any attempt on goal. That definition alone shows how meaningless these stats are

 

Says you. Yet stats are becoming increasingly important at all levels of coaching, scouting and recruiting.

[beowulf]

We haven't got a strong enough squad to succeed in Europe and Cups, and increasingly the pressure of staying clear of the relegation zone is going to tell.

Every time we show any promise,big clubs come sniffing round for our best players.Why we don't just say NO! GO AWAY can only send the message that we are a selling club with no ambition other than to make money and hopefully maintain our lofty position.

I believe speculation surrounding VVD can only have a destabilising affect on the club.

You build your defence round a strong centre half.

I reserve judgment on the manager, but must say I'm far from impressed to date

He doesn't seem very inspiring, I hope I'm wrong for our sake.

[tobes8]

We haven't got a strong enough squad to succeed in Europe and Cups, and increasingly the pressure of staying clear of the relegation zone is going to tell.

Every time we show any promise,big clubs come sniffing round for our best players.Why we don't just say NO! GO AWAY can only send the message that we are a selling club with no ambition other than to make money and hopefully maintain our lofty position.

I believe speculation surrounding VVD can only have a destabilising affect on the club.

You build your defence round a strong centre half.

I reserve judgment on the manager, but must say I'm far from impressed to date

He doesn't seem very inspiring, I hope I'm wrong for our sake.

 

Didn't Watford turn down huge money in the summer for igalo and deeny. How can they do it? We seem to get bullied, Are our board weak?

Our football is just predictable and boring. Last season we hit a tricky run and koeman totally changed formation and turned the corner. Can pull do the same I wonder?

[View From The Top]

No surprise to see the mouth breathers still don't understand.

 

I reckon some of you would struggle to walk and talk at the same time.

[Pamplemousse]

I don't really care about stats but a quick glance at "key passes" (whatever they are) shows Tadic is in the joint third in the league with 2.8 (Payet and KDB the only two better than him). And Redmond, with his "under 3" score (1.9) is actually 17th in the country alongside Hazard and Lamela (both 2.0) and Lukaku (1.. So Saints have 2 in the top twenty, which maths suggests is better than the majority of Premier League clubs. Odd you've picked that one to get upset about.

 

As a previous poster suggests, it looks like you are cherry picking stats, or in this case wilfully misreading them. Obviously we do have a problem, but clearly it is conversion of chances rather than creating them. We are a clinical finisher away from being excellent again. Or, in the short term, Long finding something resembling goalscoring form.

 

We're living in a post-fact era. You can't reason with these people using perfectly reasonable arguments.

[St Marco]

I don't really care about stats but a quick glance at "key passes" (whatever they are) shows Tadic is in the joint third in the league with 2.8 (Payet and KDB the only two better than him). And Redmond, with his "under 3" score (1.9) is actually 17th in the country alongside Hazard and Lamela (both 2.0) and Lukaku (1.. So Saints have 2 in the top twenty, which maths suggests is better than the majority of Premier League clubs. Odd you've picked that one to get upset about.

 

As a previous poster suggests, it looks like you are cherry picking stats, or in this case wilfully misreading them. Obviously we do have a problem, but clearly it is conversion of chances rather than creating them. We are a clinical finisher away from being excellent again. Or, in the short term, Long finding something resembling goalscoring form.

 

My point was that Tadic is our main provider and the others are not doing as much. Redmond is doing ok but we need more.

Goals table

 

assists table

 

In regards to the key passes etc and comparing Redmond to Hazard that is quite interesting. In terms of numbers you would think Redmond and Hazard were pretty similar. As you mention Hazard has an average of 2 per game while Redmond has 1.9. Do you think however that Redmond makes/creates as much with those Passes as Lamela and Hazard?

[CB Fry]

My point was that Tadic is our main provider and the others are not doing as much. Redmond is doing ok but we need more.

Goals table

 

assists table

 

In regards to the key passes etc and comparing Redmond to Hazard that is quite interesting. In terms of numbers you would think Redmond and Hazard were pretty similar. As you mention Hazard has an average of 2 per game while Redmond has 1.9. Do you think however that Redmond makes/creates as much with those Passes as Lamela and Hazard?

 

I'd like to see a club bottom of the goals table but top of the assist one. Great stat analysis yet again. Well done on posting up both tables. Insightful.

 

I also like how you have now dismissed the key passes stat immediately now that I have pointed out that a crappy old Saints player has the same stat as Hazard/Lamela. Their brilliant key passes are worth much more than Redmond's rubbish key passes. But of course. Let's remember you brought it up.

 

I've said we have an issue, it's obvious what it is. My only advice would be that if you are going to back it up with stats try and find ones that actually back up the point you're making.

Edited 27 November, 2016 by CB Fry

[verlaine1979]

A "key pass" is defined by most of these stats sites as a pass that leads to any attempt on goal. That definition alone shows how meaningless these stats are

 

Indeed - the key pass stat ignores whether the subsequent shot speculatively ballooned over from 35 yards, or immediately crashed into a wall of defenders as it was always doomed to.

 

Chances, Key Passes and related stats have proven particularly unhelpful in assessing our performances this year. Ostensibly we're among the most attacking sides in the league in terms of shots & chances, but aside from Burnley, we haven't squandered a huge number of gilt-edged scoring opportunities in any game.

 

We've taken a lot of shots this season, but a lot of them have been in frustration against defenses well set up to block them (i.e. not really a 'chance' at all). Without any indication of chance quality, you get absurd situations where Redmond appears to be operating at approximately the same level as the league's most dangerous attacker.

[St Marco]

My only advice would be that if you are going to back it up with stats try and find ones that actually back up the point you're making.

 

Wow you really are a bit of a knob aren't you? Why the hostility?

 

I will explain my point again then seeing as maybe I need to make it a bit more simpler for you to understand.

 

Central midfielders = not creating much. Too similar players playing in the middle.

Wingers = Not creating enough clear cut chances for either themselves or the strikers. Hence the lack of assists and goals.

How to improve on that = Don't play Clasie/Hojberg/Romeu and Davis in the same positions. Put someone on who is more attack minded (not jwp).

 

Better?

[Saint Benali]

Wow you really are a bit of a knob aren't you? Why the hostility?

 

 

Ignore him. Everyone else does.

 

I agree with what you are saying. Especially the bit about not changing if things are not working out.

We really lack someone to come off the bench who will rip **** up. Hopefully Boufal can find some form and help with that.

[CB Fry]

Wow you really are a bit of a knob aren't you? Why the hostility?

 

I will explain my point again then seeing as maybe I need to make it a bit more simpler for you to understand.

 

Central midfielders = not creating much. Too similar players playing in the middle.

Wingers = Not creating enough clear cut chances for either themselves or the strikers. Hence the lack of assists and goals.

How to improve on that = Don't play Clasie/Hojberg/Romeu and Davis in the same positions. Put someone on who is more attack minded (not jwp).

 

Better?

6th in table for shots on target.