Sparta Prague 1 Saints 0 - Match Thread & Melt Down

[hans gruber]

Reading through this

 

I would imagine that the posters on the Inter equivalent of "Saintsweb" would be suicidal

[Sour Mash]

Our attitude to this tournament has been an absolute joke. We should have comfortably qualified.

 

Reaction at the end speaks volumes, fans not happy, we're not enjoyable to watch at the moment.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

I'm not going to start calling people bed wetters , but some perspective is needed. It is the Europa LEAGUE , a league we need to beat or avoid a goal scoring draw against an Israeli team to get out of. I'd take that any day of the week.

 

We also need to look at the side we've played in this league. Our captain and guanteed starter hasn't kick a ball , 3 other shoe ins ( Davis, Cedric,Bertrand) haven't played or hardly played . That's 3 of our back 4 , not many sides can get away with that and still qualify.

 

As disappointing today is, it's not the end . It's not like Sunderland or Denmark where a shiete performance meant goodnight Vienna, we're still in this. Puel is getting a rough deal on here tonight , but his rotation & tactics can only be judged at the end of the season. 90 odd European games earns him that. I'm hoping the McQueen's, Redwoods & PEH's of the side will learn from this and Puel & the club will finally see that JWP/JRod/Classie are done .

 

Knock out stages , we'd all have taken that from day one. Koeman couldn't even get us into the league , with Mane,Big Vic & Pelle, yet Puel gets dumped on?

 

This is all very rational. But to be fair, if that was the plan, maybe the club should have warned the fans not to travel as they were planning to go off half cocked in the away games to save players for the Prem/limp over the line to qualify. The selection, tactics and performance tonight were an insult to those that travelled, and have alienated a large section of the fan base at home. Puel should be ashamed of himself. A journalist with some Kahunas needs to call him on his BS in the post match Pressers too - he gets away with murder spinning his positive comments when it's clear the bloke sends the team out to play possession based negative football and is a total coward when it comes to promoting attacking, risk taking, chance creating football.

Edited 25 November, 2016 by Kingsbridge Saint

[austsaint]

This is all very rational. Maybe the club should have warned the fans not to travel as they were planning to go off half cocked in the away games to save players for the Prem/limp over the line to qualify. The selection, tactics and performance tonight were an insult to those that travelled, and have alienated a large section of the fan base at home. Puel should be ashamed of himself. A journalist with some Kahunas needs to call him on his BS in the post match Pressers too - he gets away with murder spinning his positive comments when it's clear the bloke sends the team out to play possession based negative football and is a total coward when it comes to promoting attacking, risk taking, chance creating football.

 

Get off Puel's back and take a close look at the players we have in the squad beyond the best 11 - who cannot play every game. It's not Puel's doing that we have players like Martina, J-Rod, Long, Clasie, Ward-Prowse and even Redmond who I suspect Uncle Les had signed up before Puel arrived. Those six are frankly mediocre footballers and better players like VVD, Romeu, Boufal and Hojbjerg can't carry so much deadwood in important games. If you're arguing that Puel should have played our best eleven to secure knockout stage at the expense of Sunday's match v Everton then maybe you've got a case, but the more significant issue of blunt attacking force, lightweight mid-field and poor RB options have little to do with Puel.

[whelk]

This time of year is always so depressing for us Saints fans. Every year we just fck up in November/December.

Optimism can change so quickly but that was turgid

[DuncanRG]

This time of year is always so depressing for us Saints fans. Every year we just fck up in November/December.

Optimism can change so quickly but that was turgid

 

Yep - very frustrating that it happens every year. We'll ride it out but just have to make sure we get the job done against Hapoel.

[Batman]

It is killing us that redmond was brought in as a striker and he virtually always plays.

 

Last season, he would have been a squad player.

 

Tells its own story

[ericofarabia]

Absolutely Gutted by the lack of skill, passion and self belief we showed against what was virtually their reserve team FFS.

 

I think a team of tortoises would get the ball and players forward quicker than last nights ponderous efforts.

89th minute and we make about 5 passes along the halfway line giving Prague time to regroup then a hopeless long ball to no one in particular.

Did Redmond actually make a forward pass or run? Did anybody actually take on a man and get past him?

 

I'm normally on the Happy Clappy side of the fence, but last night was as bad as anything I've ever seen from a Saints team in my life.

Those players last night need to have a long hard look at themselves and ask why none of them could barely complete a 5 yard pass to a team mate, let alone thread through a killer pass.

Enough of this containing and retaining possession shyte. I want flair and commitment and courage to try something besides a sideways or backwards lass when we are going forward.

 

I don't see why we need so many wholesale changes each game. Players should be able to manage 2 games a week, okay for a couple of tweaks, but leaving too many key players out for what?

We are not going to be anywhere near top 6. Cup games are our only chance of any success.

Respect the fans who take valuable time off work and spend a lot of hard earnt money travelling for mid week games here there and everywhere. They deserve so much better than the dross served up last night.

At least in Milan there was some honour in our defeat, but the other two games we set up so negatively and got what we deserved where if we'd have gone for it we'd surely have come away with wins quite comfortably.

 

Rant over ..... but that display hurt me and I can't see us recovering against Everton on Sunday. I dread to think how bad the atmosphere might be.

[JRM]

Our attitude to this tournament has been an absolute joke. We should have comfortably qualified.

 

Reaction at the end speaks volumes, fans not happy, we're not enjoyable to watch at the moment.

 

Interesting that I've heard from a few fans who were there and the anger and booing directed at the players at the end was very noticeable, clearly Long realised and the fact McQueen issued an apology to the fans I think he did too. I only did Israel and spent more on that trip than a season ticket so I can imagine those who have done all three without even seeing a goal feel cheated by our lack of effort.

I've joked with Spurs fans I know in the past few seasons about the contradiction of them resting players and going out of Europe just so they can prioritise the league trying to qualify for Europe but we are even worse in that regard. I guess every league place we finish higher is worth more to the club and from a business perspective it makes sense to invest our resources into league games. Just such a shame it has come to that. In recent history Fulham and Middlesbrough have got to the final of this competition which shows it can be done, at the very least we've given ourselves a tough chance needing to beat Be'ersheva and will be unseeded in the next round if we do.

[beatlesaint]

It is killing us that redmond was brought in as a striker and he virtually always plays.

 

Last season, he would have been a squad player.

 

Tells its own story

 

have to agree. The desire to make him a striker and trailing it every match is doing us no favours.

[Shroppie]

have to agree. The desire to make him a striker and trailing it every match is doing us no favours.

Strikers score goals. Redmond doesn't. Therefore he isn't a striker. He's also not a very good player. He makes mistakes, doesn't anticipate opportunities, doesn't bring the direct threat we need and is bad for the team in the way he constantly blames others.

 

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[kermitsaint]

Get off Puel's back and take a close look at the players we have in the squad beyond the best 11 - who cannot play every game. It's not Puel's doing that we have players like Martina, J-Rod, Long, Clasie, Ward-Prowse and even Redmond who I suspect Uncle Les had signed up before Puel arrived. Those six are frankly mediocre footballers and better players like VVD, Romeu, Boufal and Hojbjerg can't carry so much deadwood in important games. If you're arguing that Puel should have played our best eleven to secure knockout stage at the expense of Sunday's match v Everton then maybe you've got a case, but the more significant issue of blunt attacking force, lightweight mid-field and poor RB options have little to do with Puel.

Yet its Puel who picks a formation that doesn't suit the players he sends out . He is responsible for that . He is responsible for playing Redmond out of position regardless of how ineffective he is . He can change things at any time but chooses not to .

 

Puel and Les Reed are the problem

 

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[shurlock]

It is killing us that redmond was brought in as a striker and he virtually always plays.

 

Last season, he would have been a squad player.

 

Tells its own story

 

It's a myth that he plays as an out-and-out striker. More often than not, Redmond collects the ball in wide positions and has the opportunity to run at fullbacks (which should be his strengths). Too many people obsessing about presumed formations and not actually watching games.

Edited 25 November, 2016 by shurlock

[beatlesaint]

It's a myth that he plays as an out-and-out striker. More often than not, Redmond collects the ball in wide positions and has the opportunity to run at fullbacks (which should be his strengths). Too many people obsessing about presumed formations and not actually watching games.

 

an opportunity that he seems to have forgotten he has in the past few games. its his strength, you are correct, but its been rarely used recently. Im not sure it is a myth, on many occasions he has been the centre of the three and in that position his decision making is poor. But he's a young player who has been told by the manager "i dont play wingers" so hes had to adapt. Its not his fault.

[rooney]

We were poor last night and the worse we have played all season. Only McQueen looked decent. We have about three chances a game now and do not have the quality to convert. If we want to progress in this competition, we shall have to play our "best team" at home now but I am not sure what this is.

[redkeith]

VVD had a poor game, needless free-kick given away for the goal and missed our best chance.

 

McQueen was our best player, linked well with Redmond until Sparta shifted across and made us go down the right with Martina.

 

I have seen Steve Baker have better games than Martina tonight. He often gets into a good postion, but his first touch kills momentum dead, and often makes him go backwards. He did the same in the 2nfd half at Inter, where he had so much space to attack. Not that that mattered in the end, as his crosssing was appalling. We reaally do need another right back in January.

 

Apart from Yoshida, McQueen and Forster, I don't think anyone else can look themserlves in the mirror this morning.

 

JayRod and Long need to play for the U23's to try and get some confidence. Long had a good run of scoring last season, but it turns out he was using all his goes at once. I saw him at the Euros where he looked clueless and out of his depth, and he looks the same ever since.

[Saint Billy]

What a disservice that outfit did to the fans that made that trip and others, disgusting!.

 

Even though we had a run of unbeaten games the style of our play has been dull dull dull.

 

The only time I see our players running with any purpose or plan is when they are heading towards our own goalkeeper and giving him the ball to work out what to do with it. This stuff is so tedious to watch, god knows what the players are feeling having to play that way.

 

I do think we have an inadequate side but what compounds it is a manager who seems hell bent on protecting our own goal rather than putting the ball in their's.

 

Reed, your run of good fortune has run out and somehow you have conspired to hire Monsieur Branfoot. The dreamy heights we have reached over the last few seasons are now well and truly over. Our reluctance to push on has now left us with a dull manager, squad and plàying style......well done!.

[Sour Mash]

To be fair, I thought the players that played put in as much effort as they could, just weren't good enough.

 

My main moans are why play such a weakened team in Europa games and our summer transfer dealings weren't good enough.

[sandwichsaint]

Interesting that I've heard from a few fans who were there and the anger and booing directed at the players at the end was very noticeable, clearly Long realised and the fact McQueen issued an apology to the fans I think he did too. I only did Israel and spent more on that trip than a season ticket so I can imagine those who have done all three without even seeing a goal feel cheated by our lack of effort.

I've joked with Spurs fans I know in the past few seasons about the contradiction of them resting players and going out of Europe just so they can prioritise the league trying to qualify for Europe but we are even worse in that regard. I guess every league place we finish higher is worth more to the club and from a business perspective it makes sense to invest our resources into league games. Just such a shame it has come to that. In recent history Fulham and Middlesbrough have got to the final of this competition which shows it can be done, at the very least we've given ourselves a tough chance needing to beat Be'ersheva and will be unseeded in the next round if we do.

 

Every cloud and all that, if we limp past BS we could get a decent draw in the knockouts! I went to Milan and would love another go to somewhere else - big team, big ground, somewhere decent and not too far away will do nicely. Can we draw Celtic in the current permutations?

[eelpie]

Anyone else think the attitude of our players is beyond poor? What happens if they all show the passion of Romeu? If you can't create and you can't score, I want to see tackles flying in, aggressive pressing, drilling / whipping balls into the box.

 

There was nothing wrong with our players' attitude against Manchester City on Saturday. They tackled and pressed aggressively.

Goals are the main problem.

[Shroppie]

Every cloud and all that, if we limp past BS we could get a decent draw in the knockouts! I went to Milan and would love another go to somewhere else - big team, big ground, somewhere decent and not too far away will do nicely. Can we draw Celtic in the current permutations?

No, because Celtic will finish bottom of their CL group and not be in Europa.

 

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[Sheaf Saint]

There's nothing really for me to add on top of what has already been said (too slow, too indecisive, not clinical enough etc...), and I admit I haven't read through all the reaction as yet, because I think I can guess what a lot of people are going to say.

 

But from what I have read so far, I'm at a loss to understand why Long isn't getting the absolute slating that he deserves because he was atrocious last night. Every time the ball went near him either he was offside, or he gave away a needless foul, then jogged back with that stupid grin he puts on when he knows he's cocked up.

 

There has been plenty of criticism of J-Rod, but when he came on against Liverpool last weekend he showed that he still has some skill on the ball to beat defenders even if he has lost his pace. Long, on the other hand, has as much ball skill as a drunken elephant. I know he has had a few games out injured but he has contributed nothing so far this season. He's the one I would be looking to offload in January, not Jay.

[broncoboy]

Get off Puel's back and take a close look at the players we have in the squad beyond the best 11 - who cannot play every game. It's not Puel's doing that we have players like Martina, J-Rod, Long, Clasie, Ward-Prowse and even Redmond who I suspect Uncle Les had signed up before Puel arrived. Those six are frankly mediocre footballers and better players like VVD, Romeu, Boufal and Hojbjerg can't carry so much deadwood in important games. If you're arguing that Puel should have played our best eleven to secure knockout stage at the expense of Sunday's match v Everton then maybe you've got a case, but the more significant issue of blunt attacking force, lightweight mid-field and poor RB options have little to do with Puel.

 

We knew at the start of the season we didn't have a quality striker. We took a risk on Charlie Austin and that has paid off .

Rodriguez was a gamble and he has not delivered. He lacks confidence and goodness knows how long he will take to recove that

Shane Long has always missed more chances than he takes. Redmond is not a stricker and has not converted to his new role

When you blame VVD for not taking his chance you know you don't have a a strike force.

The club is entirely to blame for starting the season with Long Austin Redmond & Ridriguez. There was never going to be enough goals in them

[sandwichsaint]

No, because Celtic will finish bottom of their CL group and not be in Europa.

 

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Cheers, saved me looking it up,that about sums up my interest in European/Champions Lge football!

[Winchy]

Admittedly I didn't watch the Liverpool game however the Hull & Sparta games have been equally awful. We're crying out for a creative midfielder- someone who can make a forward pass- I was hoping Hojberg might be that when we signed him however feels like he needs a little more time. Unfortunately Clasie & JWP never offer anything- whilst Long & J-Rod are both shot of confidence up front. Having said that at least qualification is still in our hands- it will be crucial Hapoel don't score first however as I can see the nerves getting the better of us.

[Window Cleaner]

Admittedly I didn't watch the Liverpool game however the Hull & Sparta games have been equally awful. We're crying out for a creative midfielder- someone who can make a forward pass- I was hoping Hojberg might be that when we signed him however feels like he needs a little more time. Unfortunately Clasie & JWP never offer anything- whilst Long & J-Rod are both shot of confidence up front. Having said that at least qualification is still in our hands- it will be crucial Hapoel don't score first however as I can see the nerves getting the better of us.

 

 

I wouldn't say that Long is short of confidence. He's just pertpetually either offside or committing petty,sunday league football fouls.

[trousers]

This time of year is always so depressing for us Saints fans. Every year we just fck up in November/December.

 

Which is typically followed by a good run in the new year. Here's hoping history repeats itself again.

[corky morris]

Its patently obvious to anyone with a brain we need to score more goals & take our chances. All well & good saying get a new striker in in January. The problem is who?? We went after Slimani, but the price went to £30m. Its just not what we do.

Jay Rod is struggling. Badly! He looks a pale shadow of the player he was. Why are we surprised? With all the injuries he's had he deserves some time. IMHO that time would be better spent on loan in the Championship.

Long has been out injured too. He's never been prolific, never will be. He's a nuisance & excellent at that role.

Redmond isn't a striker. Lets just accept it.

We lost Pelle & Mane. Yep, we got £50m for the 2 of them, but we simply haven't replaced them. Not sure who we can get to even try.

VVD was poor last night. Not saying he is a poor player. He had a bang average at best game. That stands out as he has been so good this season.

Martina simply isn't good enough to play in this system. I can think of so many goals conceded that have been from his side.

I have been wanting to give Clasie a chance. Think last night was my decision made that he needs moving on in the summer. Not even close to Schniederlin.

Can we stop saying JWP is a set piece specialist please. His delivery last night was rubbish. 3 times his corner didn't beat the first man. Rubbish.

That was a really poor performance. Cant dress it up we were s h 1 t e!

Worst of all is the pace we play at. I have been moaning about it all season. We are so slow. We move the ball slowly. We lack pace. We are one dimensional.

Thought Hull was bad, this was worse!!

[sydneysaint17]

Anyone else think the attitude of our players is beyond poor?

 

Certain players I agree. Usually don't pay too much attention to their social media posts and respect that they have a life outside of football, but was disappointed to see almost jovial posts about flying home from Hojbjerg and Cedric, whilst Charlie Austin was retweeting horse racing nonsense and plugs for his football academy almost immediately after the game.

 

Not asking for their social media manager to post an Anichebe style apology but in my opinion, its not very tactful or respectful to the fans who travelled all over Europe for those performances.

[Chris27687]

We are mid table in the prem and a draw at home to Hapoel Will get us through to the knock out stages of the Europa league & we are in the 5th round of the league cup.

 

Kill the manager, burn the stadium to the ground etc.

[sadoldgit]

Yet its Puel who picks a formation that doesn't suit the players he sends out . He is responsible for that . He is responsible for playing Redmond out of position regardless of how ineffective he is . He can change things at any time but chooses not to .

 

Puel and Les Reed are the problem

 

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Remind me again, what position do they play?

[Kingsland Red]

Very expensive road trips for not one goal...

[lickierambert]

Very expensive road trips for not one goal...

 

and maybe 2 clear cut chances created over the three games

[trousers]

We are mid table in the prem and a draw at home to Hapoel Will get us through to the knock out stages of the Europa league & we are in the 5th round of the league cup.

 

Kill the manager, burn the stadium to the ground etc.

 

Weird isn't it? Overall, we're not in a hugely dissimilar state of play to where we were around this time last season (i.e. middle third of Premier League, quarter final of league cup and in the europa league with a good chance of qualifying for the knock-out stages) yet we've somehow gone backwards in the eyes of some...

 

Yes, our performances of late have been somewhat lacking, but we nearly always go through phases like this, so where's the logic in automatically assuming we won't emerge from this frustrating period like we have done previously?

 

If come February/March we're out of all cup competitions and languishing near the foot of the premier league table then I'll happily join the doom and gloom club, but until then I'm maintaining a pragmatic stance.

Edited 25 November, 2016 by trousers

[Professor]

Beginning to think that trying for top six is a waste of time. European qualification hasn't brought much, if any, pleasure to the fans. Beating Inter Milan was a highlight, but that was the Inter side that is finishing bottom of our EUROPA group so not quite the achievement it sounds at first. On the down side we have the rush of games, the weakened teams because of having to rotate ad unexpected league defeats. There has been criticism of some of the players in the side against Prague, such as Classie, Long, JWP and Redmond with someone calling them mediocre. They are far from that, after all Classie and Long play regularly in good international sides while JWP and Redmond are considered good enough to play for England u-21. That suggests they are good quality premier league players, but I doubt any of them would get a place with any of the top 5 or 6 sides in the Premier League. When we do get players of that standard, it's only for a season or two as they are soon tempted away for more money. In the meantime, the players we have are easily capable of a comfortable mid-table league finish if they aren't spread too thinly.

This, it seems to me, is the reality. We should be content with top 10 but not top 6, keeping far enough away from the relegation zone so as not get drawn in to the relegation struggle that always hots up as the season goes on. We should make a real effort in the domestic cups to give supporters the chance of winning something but forget about Europe altogether. It takes far more financial clout than we have at present to compete at that level but established Premier League should be enough to settle for.

[Professor]

Duplicated

[Charlie Wayman]

Strikers score goals. Redmond doesn't. Therefore he isn't a striker. He's also not a very good player. He makes mistakes, doesn't anticipate opportunities, doesn't bring the direct threat we need and is bad for the team in the way he constantly blames others.

 

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100% on the money. He's a joke of a player.

[hackedoff]

Well, there you have it. I have being saying this from the beginning of the season. The Board did not invest enough fro a European campaign. There again, the Europa does not bring any money into the Club and SFC is a business. No, I think the decision has been made somewhere to exit Europe and the Cup and concentrate on staying in the PL. That's where the money is and if we can do it with the minimum of outlay I am sure the Board will be delighted.

 

Trouble is, we are in danger of being dragged into a relegation dog fight !

 

Yep , we have come around to the Rupert Lowe way of thinking, stay in the Prem with minimum outlay. The same result will happen, still lets all smile and keep paying the money.

[Shroppie]

We are mid table in the prem and a draw at home to Hapoel Will get us through to the knock out stages of the Europa league & we are in the 5th round of the league cup.

 

Kill the manager, burn the stadium to the ground etc.

A 0-0 draw will get us through. Any other draw won't.

 

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[mrfahaji]

A 0-0 draw will get us through. Any other draw won't.

 

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It does mean that Hapoel will have to attack to an extent though. If they don't score, they're out. It might suit us a little better than if they sat 11 men behind the ball.

 

Having said that, if I was their manager, I'd be instructing them to go hell for leather in the first 10 minutes, nick one and then defend. If that happens we'll struggle to score one, never mind two.

[OldNick]

100% on the money. He's a joke of a player.

I thought you'd be brighter than that.

[sadoldgit]

Not sure what all of the bedwetting is all about. We have a good chance of going through and if Puel played that team against Everton and we got beat you imagine how the pitch fork brigade would react.

[Shroppie]

It does mean that Hapoel will have to attack to an extent though. If they don't score, they're out. It might suit us a little better than if they sat 11 men behind the ball.

 

Having said that, if I was their manager, I'd be instructing them to go hell for leather in the first 10 minutes, nick one and then defend. If that happens we'll struggle to score one, never mind two.

That's my worry.

 

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[Kingsland Red]

That was as bad as Sheffield United in the League Cup, and that was turgid stuff.

[kermitsaint]

Remind me again, what position do they play?

Read what I wrote . Its pretty clear .

Do you think this formation and tactics suit the players we have ?

 

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[Fitzhugh Fella]

Not sure what all of the bedwetting is all about. We have a good chance of going through and if Puel played that team against Everton and we got beat you imagine how the pitch fork brigade would react.

 

Says someone who spent not a penny travelling all around Europe watching crap football and not even getting a goal to cheer.

The moronic armchair fan who calls those that spend their hard-earned money and then dare to moan "bedwetters" in a nutshell.

[DT]

Just back from Prague. Won't be doing that again.

What's worrying is that there is clearly something up - either the players are knackered, don't give a monkey's, are fed up with hearing that VVD is gone in Jan or next summer/want some of that, aren't good enough as a group of players, or really don't like or respect the manager and his passion for needless squad rotation. We all know that teams on a roll get energy from that, and that a settled team produces results. But oh, no, let's not actually pick our best team in a really important game. Guess it's more important to have one over on Ronald at the weekend...

Having JayRod in the squad is laughable. Has been all season, barring one shot. Didn't think he would be the player he was but he looks mentally shot with it all, let alone physically. Barely more than a pub player. Martina played as well as my gran could last night, and we have a sideways tendancy and fear of doing anything remotely positive that is starving the team of any oxygen whatsoever. I cannot see where a goal will come from, principally because the strikers are awful, and are not served by the crabs behind them. Even Ward Prowse consistently failed to beat the first man's head from the corner spot. Forster looks lumbering in goal, and as if he is dreaming of playing elsewhere, VVD like he needs to get back to his answerphone from all those Liverpool calls (although he's easily our best player), and Clasie looks like he just wants to get back to being stroked on the back of the head by Koeman. Thank God for Romeu and McQueen. But it really is bleak. Still, at least we only have to draw 0-0 in the next one. Our nil I know we can manage. It's their one that bothers me.

[Norm]

Four things in your post stand out for me. Forster looks slow to react and seems stiff in movement. WP was a big disappointment last night and I do wonder if he will ever be anything other than a squad or championship player. Then we have Martina, oh dear me. Not really sure what positives I can write about him.

As for our sideways play, we are really good at that!

[Dalek2003]

Beginning to think that trying for top six is a waste of time. European qualification hasn't brought much, if any, pleasure to the fans. Beating Inter Milan was a highlight, but that was the Inter side that is finishing bottom of our EUROPA group so not quite the achievement it sounds at first. On the down side we have the rush of games, the weakened teams because of having to rotate ad unexpected league defeats. There has been criticism of some of the players in the side against Prague, such as Classie, Long, JWP and Redmond with someone calling them mediocre. They are far from that, after all Classie and Long play regularly in good international sides while JWP and Redmond are considered good enough to play for England u-21. That suggests they are good quality premier league players, but I doubt any of them would get a place with any of the top 5 or 6 sides in the Premier League. When we do get players of that standard, it's only for a season or two as they are soon tempted away for more money. In the meantime, the players we have are easily capable of a comfortable mid-table league finish if they aren't spread too thinly.

This, it seems to me, is the reality. We should be content with top 10 but not top 6, keeping far enough away from the relegation zone so as not get drawn in to the relegation struggle that always hots up as the season goes on. We should make a real effort in the domestic cups to give supporters the chance of winning something but forget about Europe altogether. It takes far more financial clout than we have at present to compete at that level but established Premier League should be enough to settle for.

 

Very true. Also it makes sense business wise to finish mid table. The Europa League does not make the club money and making a profit is paramount in the mind of the Board.

[TheCholulaKid]

Weird isn't it? Overall, we're not in a hugely dissimilar state of play to where we were around this time last season (i.e. middle third of Premier League, quarter final of league cup and in the europa league with a good chance of qualifying for the knock-out stages) yet we've somehow gone backwards in the eyes of some...

 

Yes, our performances of late have been somewhat lacking, but we nearly always go through phases like this, so where's the logic in automatically assuming we won't emerge from this frustrating period like we have done previously?

 

If come February/March we're out of all cup competitions and languishing near the foot of the premier league table then I'll happily join the doom and gloom club, but until then I'm maintaining a pragmatic stance.

 

People are generally ****ing idiots. Recent political shenanigans have shown that. There's no reason to think football fans are any different. Bunch of (in the main) utter fannies on here.