VVD already on his way ???

[Badger]

Why do we just accept that our best players will move on?

What is frustrating is that it has become acceptable that they do.

I cannot remember a time when we have sold so many of our best players season after season.

If this the business model it will eventually crash and burn.

The academy has its work cut out bringing the players through, its not easy for a young lad to step up to Premier League standard.

When Brian Clough developed Nottingham Forest into such a good side, I don't remember there being a stampede of their players to leave to go to so called big clubs.

Saints are my club,I have a right to my opinion as do any other fans,its just frustrating to see a good player develop only to see him join the ranks of the departed.

I don't know what will happen with VVD all I know its not good to have this sort of speculation, half way through a season, on one of the best centre halves this club has ever seen.

Lets stop the name calling its childish,everyone has the right to an opinion.

 

Some valid points but the comparison with Clough's Nottm Forest is a little flawed to be honest. I recall Birtles and Woodcock jumping ship,and eventually Shilton moved on but to us rather than one of the big four. Generally though you're right he did keep the bulk of his squad together for two/three seasons. But times were diffferent, and possibly there wasn't such a gulf in salaies between Forest and the big four at the time.

 

If you want another comparison, Leicester lost Kante despite winning the league, and offering CL football. They did of course hang onto Mahrez and Vardy although are paying £100,000 wages.Even so, I think everyone expects Mahrez will still p!ss off at the end of the season.

Edited 21 November, 2016 by Badger

[Verbal Kint]

Why do we just accept that our best players will move on?

 

Because it's highly likely that a big selling point of us v other similar sized clubs is that we tell them they can move on if an acceptable offer is made. VVD didn't sign a 6 year contract here without getting assurances from the board that we'd let him go to a big club at the right price. The only question and doubt I have is if the club will get the right price, like Everton did with Stones. Virgil is a 50 million player and we shouldn't accept less next summer with so long left on his contract

[GGalpin]

I still cannot believe that people seem to think Saints have been "lucky" in how they've kept in the top ten despite losing players- it's almost as if watching Dušan Tadić for four years might give them a reasonable idea of whether he could replace Adam Lallana...

 

Virgil would have joined in the full knowledge that we'd be a stepping stone to the top, just like he joined Celtic for a step up, and Saints make a huge profit from having a superb CB for 2-3 seasons, giving the club plenty to spend on the next Van Dijk like they did for Alderweireld and Lovren before that.. Tell me what the disadvantage is in that?

[egg]

I only think VVD signed because Les said to him that you can go after a couple more years, don't think he would have signed otherwise.

 

However, Heisenberg raises the point, does VVD's new contract have a release clause? If not, then whilst we can hold him for the full 6 years, Les and Virgil probs have a mutual agreement, and that is the same with most our players, similar to Morgan's departure and Wanyama's this year.

 

And that is our business model, sign young promising players, improve them and sell them on for heavy profit.

 

If anyone's answer to keeping players is give them £100k a week, Leicester have done that with Vardy, Mahrez, Drinkwaters on £80k now, and others like Musa+Slimani also on high wages, its not working for them though is it, just looks like hunger has gone.

 

What our business model means is we get quality players on £50/60k without really overdoing it on wages, one thing I'll say is that maybe we could spend another £10-15m more this season, as I thought TV money would cover the wages, maybe we have stored that £15m for a rainy day!

 

Good post. FFP is the reason we can't spend an extra £10-15mil a year on wages. TV money doesn't help us compete with the clubs (most of them) with higher FFP caps. Ambition and cash aren't the issue.

[LaptopSaint]

Good grief, this thread. Manager who can barely string a sentence together in English says he enjoys watching one of his centre backs play football. Nothing else to be seen here. Move on.

[Heisenberg]

Good grief, this thread. Manager who can barely string a sentence together in English says he enjoys watching one of his centre backs play football. Nothing else to be seen here. Move on.

 

It's easy to panic given the clubs appetite to sell players as soon as a bid arrives?

 

However we are not going to sell our best players forever right?

 

I have just reread Reeds comments again and feel a bit more relaxed now -

 

The aspiration is to compete with the best,” he said. “That’s what we want the players to buy into. We want them to believe and the next addition will be down in reception with the trophy cabinet.”

[whelk]

What do you do when you're not posting antagonistic attention craving unintelligent böllocks on football forums?

 

Talks to Larry and replies to PMs asking for his opinion

Edited 21 November, 2016 by whelk

[Dellman]

I fear VVD will make his way to Liverpool and it will be another sad day for the fan base, even if it is a big profit day for the Board. But I take heart from the fact that Liverpool have paid us about £100million already for our best players---and they still couldn't beat us.

[nta786]

It's easy to panic given the clubs appetite to sell players as soon as a bid arrives?

 

However we are not going to sell our best players forever right?

 

I have just reread Reeds comments again and feel a bit more relaxed now -

 

The aspiration is to compete with the best,” he said. “That’s what we want the players to buy into. We want them to believe and the next addition will be down in reception with the trophy cabinet.”

 

if we are sh*te and finish consistently bottom half we won't? then will you be happy?

[Winnersaint]

I fear VVD will make his way to Liverpool and it will be another sad day for the fan base, even if it is a big profit day for the Board. But I take heart from the fact that Liverpool have paid us about £100million already for our best players---and they still couldn't beat us.

 

Liverpool, regrettably are a huge club, we are not. Can't help feeling they buy our players to slap us down, but FFP means we will never be competitive

[Dr. Kucho]

Quickly scrolling through the comments and was just wondering 'is this forum still being moderated?'

Seems like the trolls can say and do whatever the like. Shame really, used to have some good conversations

and knowledgeable posters on here.

 

Can anyone recommend a forum where people write their own match reports and sensible conversations are

held without trolls ruining the threads?

[trousers]

Quickly scrolling through the comments and was just wondering 'is this forum still being moderated?'

 

No.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I can't work out whether people are deluded or on a wind up.

 

We do not have a business model that buys players low and sells high, it's not some sort of master plan that makes our owner rich . It is purely and simply the only way to run a sustainable club that lives within its means and is a result of modern football reality . The game has driven the model, not some sort of plan. I've no doubt Les & Kat would like nothing better that VvD to stay and see out his 6 years and do so within our pay structure. The fact that his performances have taken him into a pay band & career path we can not compete with means he'll go. It is not a desire for the board to "cash in" .

 

We should be grateful that the board is so good at what they do, not slag them off . What do people want? Our recruitment to be so average that nobody wants our players . No doubt they'd be slagged off then, they can't win

Edited 21 November, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[BlakeySFC]

Get the Chinese in ASAP so we can put him on £140K a week and keep him!

[DuncanRG]

I can't work out whether people are deluded or on a wind up.

 

We do not have a business model that buys players low and sells high, it's not some sort of master plan that makes our owner rich . It is purely and simply the only way to run a sustainable club that lives within its means and is a result of modern football reality . The game has driven the model, not some sort of plan. I've no doubt Les & Kat would like nothing better that VvD to stay and see out his 6 years and do so within our pay structure. The fact that his performances have taken him into a pay band & career path we can not compete with means he'll go. It is not a desire for the board to "cash in" .

 

We should be grateful that the board is so good at what they do, not slag them off . What do people want? Our recruitment to be so average that nobody wants our players . No doubt they'd be slagged off then, they can't win

 

Too right.

[Saint in NZ]

I can't work out whether people are deluded or on a wind up.

 

We do not have a business model that buys players low and sells high, it's not some sort of master plan that makes our owner rich . It is purely and simply the only way to run a sustainable club that lives within its means and is a result of modern football reality . The game has driven the model, not some sort of plan. I've no doubt Les & Kat would like nothing better that VvD to stay and see out his 6 years and do so within our pay structure. The fact that his performances have taken him into a pay band & career path we can not compete with means he'll go. It is not a desire for the board to "cash in" .

 

We should be grateful that the board is so good at what they do, not slag them off . What do people want? Our recruitment to be so average that nobody wants our players . No doubt they'd be slagged off then, they can't win

 

All of that's fine provided Les and co. don't pretend that we are going to be a club playing in the CL anytime. Mid-table mediocrity is the best we can hope for, about where we are now.

 

Quote on BBC gossip "Liverpool are lining up deals for Southampton defender Virgil van Dijk, 25, and midfielder Sam McQueen, 21, which will cost the Reds £40m in January." What does that make McQueen worth? £-10m? If Virgil is sold for less than £40m, the board really wants its collective head testing.

[Nordic Saint]

If VVD does go it will show the club has absolutely no ambition apart from making money.

 

Look on the bright side. We'll be able to watch an ex-Saints XI dominating English football for years to come. Admittedly, the fact they'll all be wearing Liverpool shirts puts a bit of a dampener on it.

 

Kat has already sold our attack. IF, and that's a big if, she also sells our defence and follows that by selling what's left of the club, she will have shown considerable ambition for making money.

 

We have to balance this by taking into account the fact the last 3 years have been great and we did beat Inter Milan. So, it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

[CB Fry]

All of that's fine provided Les and co. don't pretend that we are going to be a club playing in the CL anytime. Mid-table mediocrity is the best we can hope for, about where we are now.

 

.

 

Who was that club that finished sixth last season and seventh the season before, then? Could have sworn that was us.

[Heisenberg]

The "we must sell our best players every year to be sustainable" argument got a little weak about 3 years ago

 

You realise that TV money alone is worth £120-140 million per season now right?

 

We are the only premier league club that sells its best players every year - why?

[Noodles34]

The "we must sell our best players every year to be sustainable" argument got a little weak about 3 years ago

 

You realise that TV money alone is worth £120-140 million per season now right?

 

We are the only premier league club that sells its best players every year - why?

 

Becasue the players want to leave and clubs are not strong enough to keep them their contracts. Sometimes we say to a player, one more year and you can go, sometimes we don't.

Whilst I understand what you are saying, it's all a bit too simplistic and you know it.

[saints1988]

Does anyone think along the lines that if we didn't lose out on Toby we may have never had VVD.

 

But we did and now VVD will more then likely go at some point which means we will get a replacement.

 

This replacemt may be as good or better then VVD - based on our previous dealings (which have been spot on)

[kermitsaint]

I've no problem with players being sold but the club made such a fuss about Vvd signing such a long contract implying that he was staying .

The cynics among us just know its to push up their value .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[hypochondriac]

Are people really expressing surprise or disappointment at this news? He will follow the path every other player has and will most likely be sold in the summer or at the most the summer after that, hopefully for big bucks.

[CB Fry]

I've no problem with players being sold but the club made such a fuss about Vvd signing such a long contract implying that he was staying .

The cynics among us just know its to push up their value .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

The non-dinlows amongst us understood exactly what VVD's new contract was all about.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Does anyone think along the lines that if we didn't lose out on Toby we may have never had VVD.

 

But we did and now VVD will more then likely go at some point which means we will get a replacement.

 

This replacemt may be as good or better then VVD - based on our previous dealings (which have been spot on)

 

You can't get away with Russian roulette forever

[Heisenberg]

The non-dinlows amongst us understood exactly what VVD's new contract was all about.

 

So the new 6 year contract was a 1 year contract?

[kermitsaint]

The non-dinlows amongst us understood exactly what VVD's new contract was all about.

Well seeing as I am one of those cynics I can only assume you're insulting every one else rather than me .

 

I'm more annoyed at the club trumpeting the news as if it actually means anything .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Why some of these "constantly dissapointed fans " stick around i cannot understand..

[Doctoroncall]

You can't get away with Russian roulette forever

 

That's why we have invested millions in the set up we have and continue to invest as well as having a defined strategy, to lower the risk of pulling the trigger with a bullet in the chamber.

 

Do you really think it's a pin in a book of names approach as to which player to purchase?

[FloridaMarlin]

Liverpool's rape and pillage set to continue, according to the Daily Star.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/563872/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-Virgil-van-Dijk-Sam-McQueen

 

Not too difficult a story to write.

 

Add two and two together, don't bother finding any quotes, Bob's your uncle.

[Pass the Dutchie]

Are people really expressing surprise or disappointment at this news?

 

But what news? The 'news' that Puel enjoys that VVD is playing well. Because that's all that was said.

[Verbal Kint]

You can't get away with Russian roulette forever

 

Since Cortese's ego signings I don't think we've made a bad one. It clearly isn't luck when they keep getting it right

[S-Clarke]

It's not even worth discussing the McQueen articles in any of the papers, they're fake.

 

He is contracted until 2018.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Liverpool's rape and pillage set to continue, according to the Daily Star.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/563872/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-Virgil-van-Dijk-Sam-McQueen

 

Not too difficult a story to write.

 

Add two and two together, don't bother finding any quotes, Bob's your uncle.

 

Amazingly it will become gospel truth on here with immediate effect

[skintsaint]

A number of good European teams have the same model as us to produce & sell good players and reinvest in players with potential, and most of them get regular European footie at the same time. Its nothing new.

[saints1988]

You can't get away with Russian roulette forever

 

If the summer comes round and there is not a clamour for the top clubs to sign Saints players we will have had a poor season and I am sure a few people will be happy about that.

 

But the players will not be the quality of VVD, Tadic, Forster, Bertrand.

 

But the way the club is working currently I cannot see that happening.

[Saints foreva]

Amazingly it will become gospel truth on here with immediate effect

 

I think many on here are aware that it isn't the gospel truth until the Liverpool Echo start running the story, they have been pretty clued up when it comes to the transfer dealings between the two clubs.

[spyinthesky]

A number of good European teams have the same model as us to produce & sell good players and reinvest in players with potential, and most of them get regular European footie at the same time. Its nothing new.

 

This is a relevant comment

 

I am sure it irks us all that we lose good players and I am sure Celtic fans are peeved that they have lost 3 of their best players to us.

 

However it is a natural progression

 

Even massive clubs like Pompey lose players to even massiver clubs

[Mowgli]

Get the Chinese in ASAP so we can put him on £140K a week and keep him!

 

Deluded

[Mowgli]

Why some of these "constantly dissapointed fans " stick around i cannot understand..

 

If I chose to ignore the greatest era in history if the club and focussed on what might happen rather than enjoy the ride, I would think there was something seriously wrong in my head.

[Colinjb]

I totally understand how we operate, have enjoyed the success the strategy has brought us and look forward to seeing the next group of talent come into the team and play in our colours.

 

But why oh f**king why does it always have to be f**king Liverpool!? Their chief scout must have the easiest job in the world.

[Badger]

A number of good European teams have the same model as us to produce & sell good players and reinvest in players with potential, and most of them get regular European footie at the same time. Its nothing new.

 

True, although the continual qualifying for European football is not a fair comparison that we can necessarily aachieve. Many of the clubs who continually produce the quality players are probably bigger clubs in their domestic set up than we are. Ajax are probably the best example of this, Celtic another.

[Badger]

This is a relevant comment

 

I am sure it irks us all that we lose good players and I am sure Celtic fans are peeved that they have lost 3 of their best players to us.

 

However it is a natural progression

 

Even massive clubs like Pompey lose players to even massiver clubs

 

There is no massiver club than them.

[Winnersaint]

A number of good European teams have the same model as us to produce & sell good players and reinvest in players with potential, and most of them get regular European footie at the same time. Its nothing new.

 

Athletico Madrid to some extent have done this. Sell Costa to Chelsea for £32M and replace with Griezmann for £25M is one example.

[Appy]

Liverpool's rape and pillage set to continue, according to the Daily Star.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/563872/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-Virgil-van-Dijk-Sam-McQueen

 

Not too difficult a story to write.

 

Add two and two together, don't bother finding any quotes, Bob's your uncle.

 

No quotes, facts wrong, oh look who wrote it.

[Glassesbloke]

A number of good European teams have the same model as us to produce & sell good players and reinvest in players with potential, and most of them get regular European footie at the same time. Its nothing new.

 

Exactly. Apart from the fact that a lot of people on here just don't get it, most of the big club-worshipping press don't either. The need to try to overcome the FFP handicap is constantly forgotten - but we've made good progress and can continue as long as the stability at the top does. Plenty of good players get fed up with being on the bench, and we have plenty of our own in the production line.

 

Funny how these crap meltdown transfer stories emerge just before "important" games, last time round was Jose to Man U again, now this one (throwing McQueen in for good measure) comes just before an important one in terms of European progression.

[Winnersaint]

Some on here keep harping on about using the TV deal to boost player wages, but FFP rules do not allow any club to do this. The revenue from centralised TV deals is not counted as part of a club's 'own revenue'. These come from commercial/sponsorship deals, player sales, match day income and any UEFA prize money. A club can increase it's wage bill by £19M based on its 2012/13 wage costs as a baseline, but can exceed it if 'own revenue' allows. As far as I can ascertain this means that we would be able to increase the wage bill to £66M to be compliant with the rules, however with a 2015/16 wage bill of £60M we are only able to increase the wage bill this season by £6M, which probably allowed us to tie a few down to 'longer term', more lucrative contracts but does not allow us to compete with the very top clubs.

Some bemoan the fact that we sell disproportionately to Liverpool. If you take their baseline of £132M in 2012/13 increase it by £19M it increases their wage budget to £151M, however, last season they spent £152M which means effectively they have to lower their wage bill by £1M. So it seems like FFP is working in our favour, but Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have such global profiles their 'own revenue' specifically that from commercial/sponsorship deals more than compensates for having to comply with FFP rules.

[S-Clarke]

Dortmund, Atleti and to an even greater extent the Portuguese clubs do it (notably Porto). In recent years they've turned over the likes of Falcao, Mangala, Fernando, Pepe, Jackson Martinez, James Rodriguez, Hulk. **** loads of talent has gone through there, more than most European clubs.

 

Next on the line for them will be the likes of Barhami, Oliver, Neves (who is a top, top midfielder). They turn it around pretty well, they have some close links with South American clubs and they bring over some awesome talent at times.

 

It's part of the game really, the transfer merry-go-round. As other's have pointed out, if clubs didn't want our players then we're doing something wrong. The fact clubs keep coming back to us for our players is because we recruit well, we know what we're doing and we know how to execute it. Our scouting and recruitment is the envy of most. And that's why none of what we do is down to luck or is what i'd call a gamble. It's good planning and a sustainable model for clubs below the elite to operate on.

[Gunnery]

So the new 6 year contract was a 1 year contract?

Can I ask how old you are and how long you've been following football?

[FloridaMarlin]

"I think many on here are aware that it isn't the gospel truth until the Liverpool Echo start running the story, they have been pretty clued up when it comes to the transfer dealings between the two clubs."

 

That's because the club shamelessly use the paper to do their dirty work for them; plant stories, muddy pools, create interest where there isn't any, unsettle players.

 

If they are part of, and party to, the process then it is going to be clued up.

 

These days, papers and other media are kept at arm's length by clubs, so if the club suddenly want to use the paper and it gives the Liverpool Echo a chance to be brought closer to the action, it is not going to say 'no'.

 

But why oh f**king why does it always have to be f**king Liverpool!? Their chief scout must have the easiest job in the world.

 

It is a bit of a back-handed compliment that they always consider our players good enough for them (not that that is any consolation), but it's football's equivalent of lazy journalism.

 

Liverpool once had a good production line that down the years that ensured a good percentage of the team were Scouse-born, from the likes of Gerry Byrne, Chris Lawler and Tommy Smith, through Phil Thompson, Jimmy Case, Sammy Lee and Terry McDermott, up to the likes of Fowler, McManaman and Gerrard.

 

But last year was the first time since 1986 that the Liverpool team did not contain a single Scouser for a Merseyside derby and like a lot of Premier League clubs, they simply find it easier and expedient to buy in success, rather than breed their own.

 

Even the Liverpool Echo was concerned enough about it to compile a piece about the club losing its Scouse heart, although that typical Merseyside bleating and crying of crocodile tears will soon be forgotten if they contrive to win something this year.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/analysis-liverpool-fc-danger-losing-8432699

 

It's not so much Liverpool's chief scout who has the easiest job in football, but academy director Alex Inglethorpe who has the most thankless.