Nordic Saint Posted 20 November, 2016 Share Posted 20 November, 2016 Only one club on the south coast: http://www.nufc.com/2016-17html/attendance-all-time.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 20 November, 2016 Share Posted 20 November, 2016 The Newcastle table doesn't say which years are covered within each teams figures, presumably from the date each team entered the Football League which in the case of Pompey & Saints, was 1921 The interesting thing here is that over the past 50 years or so, ie within recent history of both club's fanbase, our average crowd is 21,000 whereas Pompey's is just over 14,000, despite them having a ground with a bigger capacity for most of this period. Pompey may have won more trophies and have a larger geographical population to draw on but Saints have been able to get more paying customers through the gates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 20 November, 2016 Share Posted 20 November, 2016 The Newcastle table doesn't say which years are covered within each teams figures, presumably from the date each team entered the Football League which in the case of Pompey & Saints, was 1921 The interesting thing here is that over the past 50 years or so, ie within recent history of both club's fanbase, our average crowd is 21,000 whereas Pompey's is just over 14,000, despite them having a ground with a bigger capacity for most of this period. Pompey may have won more trophies and have a larger geographical population to draw on but Saints have been able to get more paying customers through the gates Portsmouth doesn't have a larger geographical area to draw on. Southampton has a population 50k greater than Portsmouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 20 November, 2016 Share Posted 20 November, 2016 Shame this has focused on our relative position vs Pompey. The position won't change between us for many many years. The interesting point is that we have recently overhauled former European Champions, Nottm Forest, and our next target is former European semi-finalists, Derby County. This table won't change much (in terms of positions) from season to season, but we could overhaul Derby in the next year or so. Our home average currently is about 1800 more than theirs, and the difference between us in the table stands at 45. It would be nice to see us in the Top 20, and given all the years when we were restricted by the small size of The Dell this will be some achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 20 November, 2016 Share Posted 20 November, 2016 Portsmouth doesn't have a larger geographical area to draw on. Southampton has a population 50k greater than Portsmouth. Depends on what information you work on as there is quite a bit of differing information available According to the 2011 census Southampton has a population of 236,882 which is the figure used by the council although there is a figure of 253,651 also recorded on other sites as to the population within city boundaries (don't really understand the difference). In comparison Portsmouth Council records a figure of 205,056 from the 2011 census with the 'within city boundary' figure of 238,137 I based my initial comparison on the urban area population basically covered by Post Code area. Unfortunately I cant locate the most recent figure but there is a figure from 1995 which shows Portsmouth at 476k and Southampton at 322k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydenhampton Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 I based my initial comparison on the urban area population basically covered by Post Code area. Unfortunately I cant locate the most recent figure but there is a figure from 1995 which shows Portsmouth at 476k and Southampton at 322k. The "PO" postcode covers more larger urban areas, it includes Fareham, Grostspot, Chavant, Bognor, Chi and the entire IOW for a start. "SO" includes Eastleigh & Winch, plus smaller towns such as Romsey & Lymmo for example. Postcode is no indicator of size of population in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 We've overtaken Forest and are close to Derby seemingly on the basis that they are 20 years older than us historically (ie Forest formed in 1865 not 1885) so have more "all time" to divide their total attendance between. Both those clubs have an absolute/total attendance of some 9-10m more than us. If it is really true that this is driven by solid attendances in the 1870s, fair enough, but I'm not sure. Basically I think we should go back 50 years for this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 Did Bootle only play 11 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 And me and mates always used to try and out do each other with obscure aways. Would have loved to have had Middlesbrough Ironopolis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 The "PO" postcode covers more larger urban areas, it includes Fareham, Grostspot, Chavant, Bognor, Chi and the entire IOW for a start. "SO" includes Eastleigh & Winch, plus smaller towns such as Romsey & Lymmo for example. Postcode is no indicator of size of population in this instance. I appreciate the point you make. There is no scientific way of measuring 'captive' areas for football team support but relevant post code provides a reasonable indication I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 Did Bootle only play 11 games? Apparently they played 22 games (11 at home) in Div 2 in 1892 before having to pack up due to financial problems. Until then they were main rivals of Everton Ironically they were replaced by in Div 2 the following year by Liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 Seems to me we are well down the pecking order and the gap to Pompey isnt that much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 Seems to me we are well down the pecking order and the gap to Pompey isnt that much... Cant argue with the facts as presented However Saints have never possessed a ground with a capacity of more than 32,000 whereas all the clubs above us in the average attendance league and a fair few below had much bigger capacities especially post WW2 when attendances rocketed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 Just to clarify that gap Alpine, if pompey sold out every home fixture for the next ten years, they would be further behind us in 2026 than they are now. The attendance debate is over. We won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 21 November, 2016 Share Posted 21 November, 2016 NB: Pre-war attendance figures based on media estimates and club records - both sources notoriously inaccurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 22 November, 2016 Share Posted 22 November, 2016 NB: Pre-war attendance figures based on media estimates and club records - both sources notoriously inaccurate Indeed However if the table is designed to show 'attendance' (as opposed to tickets sold, including season ticket holders etc) I guess you could query the more recent crowd figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 22 November, 2016 Share Posted 22 November, 2016 Raw data has only superficial interest, there are so many variables at play that serious interpretation is meaningless. That's before you factor in political dishonesty like counting ST sales as attendance irrespective of whether a ST holder is present or not which has probably always happened. I remember several sold-out matches at the Dell in bygone years when locked gates were forced open and people dived in for free by the hundreds... say no more. In fact on any one day at a match, it is doubtful anybody has a clue how many people are inside a ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnery Posted 22 November, 2016 Share Posted 22 November, 2016 This is wholly inaccurate, the bestest superest football club in all eternity isn't at the top ...innit mush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 22 November, 2016 Author Share Posted 22 November, 2016 NB: Pre-war attendance figures based on media estimates and club records - both sources notoriously inaccurate Yes, Saints would be a lot higher up that table if pre-war estimates weren't included and Pompey would be a lot further down it. Our post-war-average is over 20,000 while Pompey's is less than 17,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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