Goals from open play

[verlaine1979]

Last three league games we've scored five goals, only one of which was in open play, and that from a Stones back pass/mistake. Only one goal from any of the midfield three in eleven league games this season (JWP against a dead-and-buried West Ham). I don't believe our failure to score more against Hull this afternoon had anything to do with tiredness, or unlucky/inept finishing - we have had a midfield creativity/goal scoring problem for several seasons now, and it wont get any better until certain inadequate players are dropped.

 

Today we had Davis and Clasie as ostensible central midfielders, but how many times did they actually show up in the box when we were attacking? So many times today we had the ball wide, with only Austin in the box covered by two CBs. I see what both players bring in retention and recycling of possession, but popping the ball around in the middle third hoping to win on corners is going to lead to more results like today.

 

I'd like to see Boufal in place of Davis & Hojbjerg in place of Clasie. Based on recent performances, I'm not sure we'd lose much defensively, while the gains in creativity and ball-carrying would be massive.

[Saint-Fred]

Last three league games we've scored five goals, only one of which was in open play, and that from a Stones back pass/mistake. Only one goal from any of the midfield three in eleven league games this season (JWP against a dead-and-buried West Ham). I don't believe our failure to score more against Hull this afternoon had anything to do with tiredness, or unlucky/inept finishing - we have had a midfield creativity/goal scoring problem for several seasons now, and it wont get any better until certain inadequate players are dropped.

 

Today we had Davis and Clasie as ostensible central midfielders, but how many times did they actually show up in the box when we were attacking? So many times today we had the ball wide, with only Austin in the box covered by two CBs. I see what both players bring in retention and recycling of possession, but popping the ball around in the middle third hoping to win on corners is going to lead to more results like today.

 

I'd like to see Boufal in place of Davis & Hojbjerg in place of Clasie. Based on recent performances, I'm not sure we'd lose much defensively, while the gains in creativity and ball-carrying would be massive.

 

We would have to change the system for that to work IMO.

[Batman]

we are slow to get the ball forward and when we do, everything is (almost) to feet.

We have quick and tricky players that get get beyond their opponents. When they do, it is to cut back in.

 

we allow teams to get 10 men behind the ball pretty easily with our backwards/sideways passing. Looks good though

 

Get redmond wide (left or right) or Boufal. get beyond our players.

also, Boufal needs to start games.

 

 

No doubt the number of games caught up with us today. We will probably go out in the league cup next round so a bit of relief there. Two more games before a break in the EL too.

 

we clearly need a starting standard CF. Which we knew in the summer

[USA SaintsFan]

I think the only problem here is putting the ball into the net, not our play. We create 15-20 chances in many games, and often have enough to win. You can say we are predictable, slow, without urgency, etc. and those might be true at times, but the chances are coming, probably more so than many games last year.

[ScepticalStan]

The lack of goal threat from central midfield is a massive issue. Romeu is a defensive midfielder who ought really not to have to shoulder any creative responsibility. Clasie and Davis between them should therefore be able to create things going forward. But they can't. Mainly because they don't have the ability to beat players, shoot from distance or create chances.

 

Both players have their uses in games where we're a clear, clear underdog, as they can keep the ball relatively well, aren't easily intimidated, can break up the opponents play and operate in tight spaces.

 

In matches where we're the favourite or have taken the lead (as exemplified yesterday), and have loads of space/ought to be creating plenty of chances, neither Clasie nor Davis bring anything to that particular party.

 

Liverpool play Lallana in central midfield position along with Can and Henderson and the results for them going forward, with Lallana linking with Coutinho, Firmino and Mane up front have been massive. Why can't we do the same with Boufal or move Tadic into the 'number 10' role and stick Boufal out wide?

[verlaine1979]

I think the only problem here is putting the ball into the net, not our play. We create 15-20 chances in many games, and often have enough to win. You can say we are predictable, slow, without urgency, etc. and those might be true at times, but the chances are coming, probably more so than many games last year.

 

We have a lot of blocked shots that count technically as 'chances' but which were never likely to make it beyond the covering defender. Our chance creation stat seems to be a balm to a lot of people, but barring the Burnley game where we genuinely did create a lot of scoring opportunities, I don't think this is a genuine reflection of our creativity. We're certainly not spurning anything like 15-20 genuine goal scoring opportunities each game.

[wild-saint]

Last three league games we've scored five goals, only one of which was in open play, and that from a Stones back pass/mistake. Only one goal from any of the midfield three in eleven league games this season (JWP against a dead-and-buried West Ham). I don't believe our failure to score more against Hull this afternoon had anything to do with tiredness, or unlucky/inept finishing - we have had a midfield creativity/goal scoring problem for several seasons now, and it wont get any better until certain inadequate players are dropped.

 

Today we had Davis and Clasie as ostensible central midfielders, but how many times did they actually show up in the box when we were attacking? So many times today we had the ball wide, with only Austin in the box covered by two CBs. I see what both players bring in retention and recycling of possession, but popping the ball around in the middle third hoping to win on corners is going to lead to more results like today.

 

I'd like to see Boufal in place of Davis & Hojbjerg in place of Clasie. Based on recent performances, I'm not sure we'd lose much defensively, while the gains in creativity and ball-carrying would be massive.

 

so in summary, what you are saying is we have scored 5 goals in the last 3 games.

[USA SaintsFan]

We have a lot of blocked shots that count technically as 'chances' but which were never likely to make it beyond the covering defender. Our chance creation stat seems to be a balm to a lot of people, but barring the Burnley game where we genuinely did create a lot of scoring opportunities, I don't think this is a genuine reflection of our creativity. We're certainly not spurning anything like 15-20 genuine goal scoring opportunities each game.

But blocked shots still count as chances. Direct them better, and they can go in. I'm not saying we create that many clear cut chances, but in many games against "lesser" clubs we seem to create quite enough chances to win the game, as has been said many times over on here. Hull City match, we had 19 shots 7 on target. It astounds me that Hull, despite clearly have a much less superior side to ours, possessed the finishing to completely out class us.

[Evil Monkey]

Agree completely with this. Although I think Dusan might be better to move inside. Agree again about Hoj coming in too.

 

Forster

Cedric Fonte VVD Bertrand

Hoj Rom Tadic

Redmond Austin Bouffal

 

Something like that at home/vs the lesser teams. Obviously something more solid vs the bigger boys.

[verlaine1979]

so in summary, what you are saying is we have scored 5 goals in the last 3 games.

 

Or, in summary I'm saying we've scored half our league goals in just two games against dross. Or that our midfield has managed a single goal all season, and that from a substitute in the dying minutes against the aforementioned dross. Do three goals against Burnley make up for not laying a glove on Chelsea and only managing a penalty against Hull (and relying on an o.g. for our 'famous' win against Inter)?

[mrfahaji]

Or, in summary I'm saying we've scored half our league goals in just two games against dross. Or that our midfield has managed a single goal all season, and that from a substitute in the dying minutes against the aforementioned dross. Do three goals against Burnley make up for not laying a glove on Chelsea and only managing a penalty against Hull (and relying on an o.g. for our 'famous' win against Inter)?

 

With the possible exception of Aston Villa last season, there's no such thing as dross in the Premier League. Hull and Sunderland come close, but if Burnley and West Ham were poor against us that's partly due to how we played. Chelsea's last five league games have been 2-0, 3-0, 4-0, 2-0, 5-0. Hardly embarrassing that we struggled to create much against them. "Relying" on an own goal - who's to say we wouldn't have continued pressing and scored a second if that hadn't gone in?

 

Your concern about the lack of firepower from our midfield is a legitimate one, but you don't make your case very well. Your anti-Davis agenda is also so constant and predictable that it rivals Dalek's relegation fears or ALWAYS_SFC's relentless swiping of other posters!

[ozzmeister]

With the possible exception of Aston Villa last season, there's no such thing as dross in the Premier League. Hull and Sunderland come close, but if Burnley and West Ham were poor against us that's partly due to how we played. Chelsea's last five league games have been 2-0, 3-0, 4-0, 2-0, 5-0. Hardly embarrassing that we struggled to create much against them. "Relying" on an own goal - who's to say we wouldn't have continued pressing and scored a second if that hadn't gone in?

 

Your concern about the lack of firepower from our midfield is a legitimate one, but you don't make your case very well. Your anti-Davis agenda is also so constant and predictable that it rivals Dalek's relegation fears or ALWAYS_SFC's relentless swiping of other posters!

 

I thought Dalek was Hoddle love, and Alpine was relegation fears?

[The9]

we are slow to get the ball forward and when we do, everything is (almost) to feet.

We have quick and tricky players that get get beyond their opponents. When they do, it is to cut back in.

 

we allow teams to get 10 men behind the ball pretty easily with our backwards/sideways passing. Looks good though

 

Get redmond wide (left or right) or Boufal. get beyond our players.

also, Boufal needs to start games.

 

 

No doubt the number of games caught up with us today. We will probably go out in the league cup next round so a bit of relief there. Two more games before a break in the EL too.

 

we clearly need a starting standard CF. Which we knew in the summer

 

We're not slow to get the ball forward at all, we did it quickly on plenty of occasions against Hull, but the final ball was usually poor - often as a result of our third choice CB playing as our third choice RB, which isn't really something to worry about. Tadic got past loads of times but rarely found a teammate, that's generally what happens when defenders are around.

 

We had no problems at all with fatigue or energy and totally bossed the game for all but the first minute and the 4 minutes either side of their goals. Hull got lucky, especially when the ball rebounded over the bar from a yard out off Rodriguez from the goalline clearance in injury time. Austin had 3 shots on target well saved, and one block from 6 yards out. On another day we'd have had 5, this was a fluke - especially considering their best player by a mile was Snodgrass, who came on as an emergency sub for a second injured Hull player in a completely different position and completely changed the game with his contribution. FWIW I thought Bertrand was poor by his standards, and he's one that's had more rests than most.

Edited 8 November, 2016 by The9

[mrfahaji]

I thought Dalek was Hoddle love, and Alpine was relegation fears?

 

Maybe Dalek has that as well, but he predicts us for relegation every year and mentions the prospect of going down virtually every week. It can be more funny than annoying if you don't take him seriously though...