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Rumours of takeover/investment interest

eling-saint

By eling-saint,
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hughieslastminutegoal

hughieslastminutegoal

Posted
Posted
Have you been working with glue or solvents in an unventilated room ?

 

Why? It seemed obvious to me at the time that Cortese was earmarked for assuming some kind of control after Marcus, it's just that ML died rather sooner than was expected and Cortese didn't yet have all his ducks in a row - hence the final acrimony between Cortese and KL. Cortese's "passion" seemed rather greater than what he would have shown had he been just an employee. I don't believe that an already ill ML just went along with Cortese's idea of buying a "bankrupt" football club just to diversify his investments and leave his multi-million pound heiress daughter with something she didn't at the time really give a fart for. It seems much more likely that this was supposed to be a parting set-up for Cortese.

 

Obviously unless Cortese came out of the woodwork to confirm such speculation we'll never know, but looking at the circumstances, I think the above is more likely than not.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Article in full:

 

Southampton look set to become the second Premier League club to pass into Chinese ownership after receiving an improved offer from Lander Sports Development to buy a 100 per cent stake in the club for £190 million. The Chinese property development company has proposed a phased takeover in which it would initially buy into the club before going on to take full control.

 

Katharina Liebherr, the club’s owner, rejected an offer of £180 million in January, as revealed by The Times, but Lander’s improved bid is much closer to her valuation and negotiations are believed to be at an advanced stage. The sale is being handled by the Zurich office of the investment bank UBS, which has been retained by Liebherr since she inherited Southampton after the death of her father, Markus, in 2010.

 

Liebherr intends to keep some of her shares in the short term to provide continuity before selling up completely if Lander’s promises of additional investment materialise and the buy-out goes well. Lander and Southampton have been talking for more than a year, although a six-week period of exclusive negotiations ended in January without an agreement.

 

Lander appears to be happy for Liebherr to stay on as a minority shareholder and is not planning any significant changes at the club if it secures a majority stake. The chairman, Ralph Krueger, and chief executive, Gareth Rogers, are likely to remain in place, although Lander will seek representation on the board.

 

Liebherr’s willingness to sell stems from her belief that Southampton require additional investment to cement their position as a top-ten Premier League club and a desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio. The Liebherrs’ wealth was reported to be £3 billion after Markus’s death, although that figure is understood to have referred to the entire family’s assets rather than the trust that Katharina inherited.

 

Southampton posted healthy financial results for the year ending 2015-16 last week, with post-tax profits of £4.9 million and an increased turnover of £124.3 million, although the club retains debts of almost £50 million, a factor that is believed to have played a part in the protracted negotiations.

 

Lander is seeking to become the second Chinese owner in the Premier League after Guochuan Lai’s takeover of West Bromwich Albion last year.

 

If the above is true, it has eased any concerns I had of these taking over. At the end of the day, I very much doubt Kat makes many footballing decision.

 

Unfortunately, the way the PL is with FFP there is very little (in terms of money) a rich investor can bring to the table (other than really invest in infrastructure)

 

I have said on a number of occasions that if Kat can't afford / doesn't want to take us forward then it is best for her to sell.

 

Thanks for the memories, all very much appreciated and you and your father will go down in the history of the club (i'd love to see a Markus Statue).

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
It's not hard to find by using the wonders of IT. Any Forbes reference to M Liebherr is though.

https://www.forbes.com/profile/willi-isolde-liebherr/

Agreed, I cannot find the references either. I assume some sort of infiltration by the CIA or Barack Obama has lead to this information being modified :-). I distinctly remember at the time of the takeover or shortly thereafter that a list was available that showed the wealth of Markus, independently from that of Willi and Isolde, and that it was about $4bn. Maybe it wasn't Forbes, which is a shame because it is the backbone of my argument. That said, I think it beggars belief that you seriously think that Markus was not a multi billionaire (whether that be 2,3 or 4 billion). There are references around indicating that his wealth, independent of the Liebherr Group (Willi and Isolde) was around 3bn Euros (Telegraph Obituary, for example, which is clear that his business was quite separate from the Liebherr Group). Although not as good a source as Forbes, of course, it was reported in 2014 that Katharina had inherited her Father's $3bn fortune (although I don't believe myself that she did inherit the full amount), hence her appearance in the Top 10 Richest English Premier League owners (Valnet Inc), nevertheless it would be strange if they did not get their numbers from some reliable source. The Mirror (yes, I know a ragtop, with no substance at all) quoted that Katharina was worth £1.9bn in 2015 (probably a more believable figure than the $3bn from 2014). Whether or not KL is still a multi-billionaire (if 1.9 counts as multi) is a moot point, but there can surely be little doubt that her Father was before his untimely death. Markus inherited a great deal from his father, Hans, and purchased the main constituent companies of the MALI Group in 1994 (he did not build them up from scratch). These were not back yard/ industrial estate little tin pot companies, but suppliers of R&D and equipment to the automotive and other industries (diesel engine common rail technology). It was of course reported that he handed his shares in the Liebherr Group back at a later date (as did his brother Hubert), but this does not mean he gave back any of his "fortune", merely that he gave away his part in the controlling interest of the Liebherr Group and gained nothing further from their efforts. I think your assertion that the winding up of the MALI Group was a simple affair (implying the company was not substantial) is really pure fantasy.

 

Without the Forbes reference it is difficult to prove that Markus was as wealthy as believed, but there is still enough circumstantial evidence that he was worth in the realms of 2-4bn (whether that be dollars, euros, pounds, Swiss francs or other reliable currency as opposed to Nigerian Naira). If you really think Markus' wealth was wildly overstated then you will no doubt be able to produce verifiable details :-) It is arguable that KL is not as wealthy, that is accepted, the terms of her inheritance probably meant that she did not inherit even 50% of her Father's total estate, the inheritance laws in Switzerland are complex and in any case I suspect that substantial parts of his Estate passed to others, including his great friend Cortese, and possibly to KL's son.

 

Incidentally, in all of the years since ML came onto the scene I have never found any reference to his wife (KL's mother). Did she die, were they divorced, does anyone actually know?

 

Please post your citations to the list to back up your theory that Markus Liebherr was actually a pauper, my citations for the contra-argument are shown below :-)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/sport-obituaries/7950756/Markus-Liebherr.html

http://www.therichest.com/sports/soccer-sports/top-10-richest-english-premier-league-owners/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-owners-how-6233348.

 

On the other hand you might just think, who gives a tinker's cuss and give up ;)

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
Agreed, I cannot find the references either. I assume some sort of infiltration by the CIA or Barack Obama has lead to this information being modified :-). I distinctly remember at the time of the takeover or shortly thereafter that a list was available that showed the wealth of Markus, independently from that of Willi and Isolde, and that it was about $4bn. Maybe it wasn't Forbes, which is a shame because it is the backbone of my argument. That said, I think it beggars belief that you seriously think that Markus was not a multi billionaire (whether that be 2,3 or 4 billion). There are references around indicating that his wealth, independent of the Liebherr Group (Willi and Isolde) was around 3bn Euros (Telegraph Obituary, for example, which is clear that his business was quite separate from the Liebherr Group). Although not as good a source as Forbes, of course, it was reported in 2014 that Katharina had inherited her Father's $3bn fortune (although I don't believe myself that she did inherit the full amount), hence her appearance in the Top 10 Richest English Premier League owners (Valnet Inc), nevertheless it would be strange if they did not get their numbers from some reliable source. The Mirror (yes, I know a ragtop, with no substance at all) quoted that Katharina was worth £1.9bn in 2015 (probably a more believable figure than the $3bn from 2014). Whether or not KL is still a multi-billionaire (if 1.9 counts as multi) is a moot point, but there can surely be little doubt that her Father was before his untimely death. Markus inherited a great deal from his father, Hans, and purchased the main constituent companies of the MALI Group in 1994 (he did not build them up from scratch). These were not back yard/ industrial estate little tin pot companies, but suppliers of R&D and equipment to the automotive and other industries (diesel engine common rail technology). It was of course reported that he handed his shares in the Liebherr Group back at a later date (as did his brother Hubert), but this does not mean he gave back any of his "fortune", merely that he gave away his part in the controlling interest of the Liebherr Group and gained nothing further from their efforts. I think your assertion that the winding up of the MALI Group was a simple affair (implying the company was not substantial) is really pure fantasy.

 

Without the Forbes reference it is difficult to prove that Markus was as wealthy as believed, but there is still enough circumstantial evidence that he was worth in the realms of 2-4bn (whether that be dollars, euros, pounds, Swiss francs or other reliable currency as opposed to Nigerian Naira). If you really think Markus' wealth was wildly overstated then you will no doubt be able to produce verifiable details :-) It is arguable that KL is not as wealthy, that is accepted, the terms of her inheritance probably meant that she did not inherit even 50% of her Father's total estate, the inheritance laws in Switzerland are complex and in any case I suspect that substantial parts of his Estate passed to others, including his great friend Cortese, and possibly to KL's son.

 

Incidentally, in all of the years since ML came onto the scene I have never found any reference to his wife (KL's mother). Did she die, were they divorced, does anyone actually know?

 

Please post your citations to the list to back up your theory that Markus Liebherr was actually a pauper, my citations for the contra-argument are shown below :-)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/sport-obituaries/7950756/Markus-Liebherr.html

http://www.therichest.com/sports/soccer-sports/top-10-richest-english-premier-league-owners/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-owners-how-6233348.

 

On the other hand you might just think, who gives a tinker's cuss and give up ;)

 

Right, but based on the most recent Forbes list, the Leibherr family, who are the sole share holders of the Liebherr Group, a huge multi-national covering everything from cranes to trains to hotels, are worth about $4.5bn. Mali Group on the other hand don't appear to have had anything like the footprint of Liebherr Group, so while I suppose it's possible that Markus managed to both hand back his shareholding in the family company (which if he'd kept, would presumably be worth the couple of billion all the newspapers seem to think he had) and build up an entirely separate entity that happened to be worth almost as much, but without having anything like the same profile (despite also being in the heavy equipment manufacturing space), I tend to think that in reality, the estimates of his wealth are just the result of lazy reporting and poor initial information. All that would be needed for this situation to arise is for one newspaper article to be written early enough in his life that estimated his wealth in ignorance of the fact that he handed back his shareholding, and every subsequent article would end up perpetuating the error.

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Guy

Guy

Posted
Posted

Also these rich folk have their money (especially inheritances) tied up in various trusts to keep them away from the taxman or just exists on paper as unsaleable shares in family/unlisted companies so they can't spend the money even if they wanted to.

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted
Also these rich folk have their money (especially inheritances) tied up in various trusts to keep them away from the taxman or just exists on paper as unsaleable shares in family/unlisted companies so they can't spend the money even if they wanted to.

 

I don't

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
NC is still involved with managing the family's wealth so can't have been too much of a fall out between him and KL!

 

Errrrr - He was taken off the Mali board (Only a couple of months after he joined it) board even when he was still at Saints

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

Posted
Posted
Why... why do you post here? I mean you are welcome as longwell as you behave but weird choice.

 

A lot of people, my grandparents from the Scotswood Road included, moved from Newcastle to Southampton in the 20th century, mostly following the dock work. The first football match I was taken to see as a boy was Saints v Newcastle. I think a sizeable percentage of Sotonians have Geordie roots.

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NUFC-Fan

NUFC-Fan

Posted
Posted
Why... why do you post here? I mean you are welcome as longwell as you behave but weird choice.

 

I like your club and those associated with it, always wish them well. Created an account last year to see your opinions on Koeman moving to Everton and was met with warm responses.

 

A lot of people, my grandparents from the Scotswood Road included, moved from Newcastle to Southampton in the 20th century, mostly following the dock work. The first football match I was taken to see as a boy was Saints v Newcastle. I think a sizeable percentage of Sotonians have Geordie roots.

 

Is that true? I never knew. I work on Scotswood Road (pointless bit of information), its definitely a small world!

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angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted

NUFC - a belated welcome. AFAI am concerned, I am more than happy to have any football fan post on here, obviously as long as they aren't here to just take the ****, which you clearly aren't. We all share a similar interest, and it is always nice to see things from a different perspective rather than just have a talking shop which can get a bit parochial at times.

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
Yeh, let's not be like Pompey Online where they welcome absolutely nobody apart from their own folk.

 

Personally, I've always found Geordies to be sound people.

 

I've got a few mates up there. Really like it as a city and they are massively passionate about their football.

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
A lot of people, my grandparents from the Scotswood Road included, moved from Newcastle to Southampton in the 20th century, mostly following the dock work. The first football match I was taken to see as a boy was Saints v Newcastle. I think a sizeable percentage of Sotonians have Geordie roots.

 

My maternal grandparents were Geordies. My granddad and my great uncle road their pushbikes down in the very early 1930s when they heard the shipyards (Harland and Wolff I think) down south were looking for the skills they had, they had both been laid off as soon as they'd completed their apprenticeships on Tyneside.

 

My granddad was needed in Soton and my great uncle, pompey.

 

My granddad went into digs in Sholing for 2 years before saving enough money to bring his wife and kids down into their new house on Blackthorn Rd in Merry Oak.

 

He always went to The Dell or FP if Newcastle were playing.

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

Posted
Posted
I like your club and those associated with it, always wish them well. Created an account last year to see your opinions on Koeman moving to Everton and was met with warm responses.

 

 

 

Is that true? I never knew. I work on Scotswood Road (pointless bit of information), its definitely a small world!

 

My grandfather lived at 457 Scotswood Road more than 100 years ago and his grandfather lived in Pudding Chare back in the 1840s. It's changed a lot since then. Quite a lot of young men moved south from Newcastle in the pre-war era, looking for work in the docks.

 

I always think there's some affinity between the 2 cities and there has never been any real animosity between the fans. In the first match I saw at the Dell, John McGrath was playing for Newcastle. Not long after he moved down here too.

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NUFC-Fan

NUFC-Fan

Posted
Posted
My grandfather lived at 457 Scotswood Road more than 100 years ago and his grandfather lived in Pudding Chare back in the 1840s. It's changed a lot since then. Quite a lot of young men moved south from Newcastle in the pre-war era, looking for work in the docks.

 

I always think there's some affinity between the 2 cities and there has never been any real animosity between the fans. In the first match I saw at the Dell, John McGrath was playing for Newcastle. Not long after he moved down here too.

 

I remember being told how S Road used to be full of houses! Your Grandfather wouldn't recognise the place now, it's essentially a really long industrial estate now, full of various factories and car showrooms etc.

 

I had no idea there was a tie between the two cities until you guys told me, just generally quite liked Southampton as a club - fair to say this new information has only strengthened that!

 

Thanks for the other responses chaps, I look forward to (hopefully) playing against you lot next season again, and also a special thanks for whipping the other red and white team down the road. :D

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  • 3 weeks later...
Cartman

Cartman

Posted
Posted

 

Projected operating income for this season 165.2m? If that had been last season we would have been the 15th richest club in the world above Milan and Roma.

 

Seems this lot couldn't get approval from the China Securities Regulatory Commission. Good job too, looks like they were planning on only 30% of the funds needed to buy the club would have come from their own stash, with the other 70% funded through merger & acquisition loans. In other words, they are skint.

Hopefully Amer will step forward. Private company so no stock market regulators to deal with and they actually have cash. A lot of it.

 

https://www.forbes.com/profile/wang-wenyin/

http://fortune.com/2014/12/04/wang-wenyin-amer-international-global-500/

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SO16_Saint

SO16_Saint

Posted
Posted
Projected operating income for this season 165.2m? If that had been last season we would have been the 15th richest club in the world above Milan and Roma.

 

Seems this lot couldn't get approval from the China Securities Regulatory Commission. Good job too, looks like they were planning on only 30% of the funds needed to buy the club would have come from their own stash, with the other 70% funded through merger & acquisition loans. In other words, they are skint.

Hopefully Amer will step forward. Private company so no stock market regulators to deal with and they actually have cash. A lot of it.

 

https://www.forbes.com/profile/wang-wenyin/

http://fortune.com/2014/12/04/wang-wenyin-amer-international-global-500/

 

Is there any credible link to Amer?

 

Also, is there not a law in China that a Chinese national is now not allowed to own an overseas football club?

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Projected operating income for this season 165.2m? If that had been last season we would have been the 15th richest club in the world above Milan and Roma.

 

Seems this lot couldn't get approval from the China Securities Regulatory Commission. Good job too, looks like they were planning on only 30% of the funds needed to buy the club would have come from their own stash, with the other 70% funded through merger & acquisition loans. In other words, they are skint.

Hopefully Amer will step forward. Private company so no stock market regulators to deal with and they actually have cash. A lot of it.

 

https://www.forbes.com/profile/wang-wenyin/

http://fortune.com/2014/12/04/wang-wenyin-amer-international-global-500/

 

Private companies in China :lol:

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted

Irrational overseas investments eh. That rules out football in one clear statement. Football is an ego project for the super rich, not really a rational business in the truest sense.

 

Hopefully here is someone else out there who fancies a dabble in being a super rich premier league team owner.

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Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted
That might seal VVDs exit. Imagine Reed will stay on too? Or is he planning on retiring? Any ITKs know his plans?

 

Imagine Kat is annoyed

 

You 'imagine' most things as far as I can tell.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted

The rumour I heard from a decent source was originally there were 3 consortiums in the chase. 2 x Chinese and 1 x US. Kat won't do a deal unless it is beneficial to Saints. Also it was always going to be a minority takeover.

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Katalinic

Katalinic

Posted
Posted
The rumour I heard from a decent source was originally there were 3 consortiums in the chase. 2 x Chinese and 1 x US. Kat won't do a deal unless it is beneficial to Saints. Also it was always going to be a minority takeover.

 

Wasn't there recent talk somewhere that Saints had leaked the Landers bid to accelerate the preferred US deal?

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