Rumours of takeover/investment interest

[Saint_Ash]

Get the feeling this has been leaked to smoke out other investors

[Badger]

Get the feeling this has been leaked to smoke out other investors

 

I think after the last "leak" it was also suggested there were two other parties in the running, including another Chinese and an American interested, with the American's described as the preferred option.

[doddisalegend]

I still rather they ****ed off. I'm happy with the way the club is run I just have a bad feeling that this lot will turn out like the guy at Villa or one of the many other far eastern owners that have generally been gash.

 

We have, imo, a great owner who I'd rather keep.

[Badger]

I still rather they ****ed off. I'm happy with the way the club is run I just have a bad feeling that this lot will turn out like the guy at Villa or one of the many other far eastern owners that have generally been gash.

 

We have, imo, a great owner who I'd rather keep.

 

Ditto.

[Wade Garrett]

Reading between the lines, it would appear that our current owner isn't willing/able to provide the investment to the club she thinks it needs.

 

Asset strippers tend to buy clapped out businesses at rock bottom prices. This doesn't strike me as anything like that. Are the combined assets of the business worth more than £190m? I don't see them as that type of buyer.

[shurlock]

"A desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio"

 

Some might say she's lost interest and/or has other priorities.

[hypochondriac]

Inclined to agree. This Lander group just doesn't feel right somehow. (A view not based on any tangible evidence, just a hunch).

 

That said, part of me is reassured that Katharina surely wouldn't want to sell on her father's legacy to a cowboy outfit, would she?

 

Interesting times.

 

More than anything else, they don't appear to have an awful lot of cash which is normally a good indicator of intentions. Then you have the Chinese and the culture clash and there seems quite a lot of scope for things to go pear shaped.

[hypochondriac]

"A desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio"

 

Some might say she's lost interest and/or has other priorities.

 

I doubt she has lost interest. I expect the plan was always to get us as far as she could take us with minimal outlay on her part. She probably understands that our current selling strategy is fairly unsustainable in the long term and is probably looking for a return on her investment as well as securing our future in memory of her father (I imagine that academy building named in his honour would represent an emotional tie still if nothing else.) I hope if we do sell to these guys that she has undertaken rigorous due diligence and received commitments in order to get us funded to a greater degree than we are being funded at the moment, otherwise what would be the point?

[SuperSAINT]

Article in full:

 

Southampton look set to become the second Premier League club to pass into Chinese ownership after receiving an improved offer from Lander Sports Development to buy a 100 per cent stake in the club for £190 million. The Chinese property development company has proposed a phased takeover in which it would initially buy into the club before going on to take full control.

 

Katharina Liebherr, the club’s owner, rejected an offer of £180 million in January, as revealed by The Times, but Lander’s improved bid is much closer to her valuation and negotiations are believed to be at an advanced stage. The sale is being handled by the Zurich office of the investment bank UBS, which has been retained by Liebherr since she inherited Southampton after the death of her father, Markus, in 2010.

 

Liebherr intends to keep some of her shares in the short term to provide continuity before selling up completely if Lander’s promises of additional investment materialise and the buy-out goes well. Lander and Southampton have been talking for more than a year, although a six-week period of exclusive negotiations ended in January without an agreement.

 

Lander appears to be happy for Liebherr to stay on as a minority shareholder and is not planning any significant changes at the club if it secures a majority stake. The chairman, Ralph Krueger, and chief executive, Gareth Rogers, are likely to remain in place, although Lander will seek representation on the board.

 

Liebherr’s willingness to sell stems from her belief that Southampton require additional investment to cement their position as a top-ten Premier League club and a desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio. The Liebherrs’ wealth was reported to be £3 billion after Markus’s death, although that figure is understood to have referred to the entire family’s assets rather than the trust that Katharina inherited.

 

Southampton posted healthy financial results for the year ending 2015-16 last week, with post-tax profits of £4.9 million and an increased turnover of £124.3 million, although the club retains debts of almost £50 million, a factor that is believed to have played a part in the protracted negotiations.

 

Lander is seeking to become the second Chinese owner in the Premier League after Guochuan Lai’s takeover of West Bromwich Albion last year.

 

Cheers for posting. I'm sure she wants what's best for the club, but you can never know for sure how buyers are going to behave.

 

Our time under Markus & Kat has been fantastic - It will be a shame for it to end.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Wonder why nobody is applying the logic to Katharina that is applied to players. If they don't want to be here, let them leave

[Charlie Wayman]

Inclined to agree. This Lander group just doesn't feel right somehow. (A view not based on any tangible evidence, just a hunch).

 

That said, part of me is reassured that Katharina surely wouldn't want to sell on her father's legacy to a cowboy outfit, would she?

 

Interesting times.

 

I have the same uneasy feeling as you about this despite the reassuring noises about minority interests and KL hanging in there as a minority shareholder with the intent of keeping a watchful eye on Corporate Governance and Fulfilment. Nor would I expect Ralph Kreuger to be here after KL has gone, he is after all her man.

 

Nor can I see what is in this for the Chinese. Their usual motivation is investment of hot cash as cash is not king these days and UK property is seen globally as a nailed on cast iron certainty to retain its value, grow your capital and provide income - a nice little earner if ever there was one!

 

Paying £190m for SFC would be a very bad move especially with a £50m debt. We are where we are with no immediate prospect of improving to a top six level club so where will any growth of capital come from. It is even likely that the club's value would decline unless huge investment is made by a new owner to push the club on with better players and staff and better facilities. So that's more money on top of the buy-in cost as well. To me that makes little sense and for that reason I just cannot see this deal happening at all. The Chinese are not known for making highly risky decisions with their cash investments as we have seen already with the new nuclear reactor deal that they are involved in.

 

If it happens the Club ethos will change, no doubt about that. SFC may well cease to be the family friendly outfit that so many of us have loved over the years, the price that fans could pay to become a 'bigger' club.

[doddisalegend]

Wonder why nobody is applying the logic to Katharina that is applied to players. If they don't want to be here, let them leave

 

 

In fairness a bad owner can do far more damage to a club than a few players leaving..

[Dusic]

If they have been in talks for over a year then Lander are onviously keen and KL clearly not wanting to rush into something unless it is right. That is a good sign.

 

But there isn't much upon which to base any kind of assessment of Lander as potential owners, which is possibly a concern.

 

All IMHO of course,

Morph

[Morph]

In fairness a bad owner can do far more damage to a club than a few players leaving..

 

Hey you are using my catchphrase.

 

Follow Noah Liebherr on Instagram.

 

https://www.instagram.com/noahliebherr/?hl=en

 

Always a few clues there

 

All IMHO of course

 

Morph

[SuperSAINT]

Inclined to agree. This Lander group just doesn't feel right somehow. (A view not based on any tangible evidence, just a hunch).

 

That said, part of me is reassured that Katharina surely wouldn't want to sell on her father's legacy to a cowboy outfit, would she?

 

Interesting times.

 

Owner's never intend to sell to morons on purpose. Doug Ellis thought Lerner would have the best intentions.

 

David Moores thought Hicks & Gillett would be brilliant for Liverpool...

[Micky]

I still rather they ****ed off. I'm happy with the way the club is run I just have a bad feeling that this lot will turn out like the guy at Villa or one of the many other far eastern owners that have generally been gash.

 

We have, imo, a great owner who I'd rather keep.

 

This. There has been nothing but a positive vibe at the club since Markus and Kat walked in the door. Since then - they have conducted all aspects of the business in a very professional manner and provided investment along the way. You can talk about 'going to the next level', but the reality is that in order to do so you need massive amounts of money. I'm more than happy with her to freely admit that she does not have that investment.

 

I would much rather 'stick' at this point - very happy with whats happened at the club since their takeover.

[doddisalegend]

If they have been in talks for over a year then Lander are onviously keen and KL clearly not wanting to rush into something unless it is right. That is a good sign.

 

But there isn't much upon which to base any kind of assessment of Lander as potential owners, which is possibly a concern.

 

All IMHO of course,

Morph

 

Hey you are using my catchphrase.

 

Follow Noah Liebherr on Instagram.

 

https://www.instagram.com/noahliebherr/?hl=en

 

Always a few clues there

 

All IMHO of course

 

Morph

 

err forgot which account you were logged in on did we...

[ALWAYS_SFC]

err forgot which account you were logged in on did we...

 

 

Is he logged in as St Charlie too...

[Marsdinho]

I still rather they ****ed off. I'm happy with the way the club is run I just have a bad feeling that this lot will turn out like the guy at Villa or one of the many other far eastern owners that have generally been gash. We have, imo, a great owner who I'd rather keep.

 

 

Yeah, lets leave the club in the hands of someone who thinks they dont have enough money to take the club any further forward.

[doddisalegend]

Yeah, lets leave the club in the hands of someone who thinks they dont have enough money to take the club any further forward.

 

Yeah sadly due to FFP your wet dreams of some billionaire owner pouring money into the club buying world class players to take us to the next level are just that dreams...

[ErwinK1961]

If they have been in talks for over a year then Lander are onviously keen and KL clearly not wanting to rush into something unless it is right. That is a good sign.

 

But there isn't much upon which to base any kind of assessment of Lander as potential owners, which is possibly a concern.

 

All IMHO of course,

Morph

 

How many log-ins do you have Charlie?

[Micky]

Yeah, lets leave the club in the hands of someone who thinks they dont have enough money to take the club any further forward.

 

How do you know that those people who are proposing to buy us have the money? Or are you just assuming that they do?

 

It takes a massive amount of investment to break into the elite echelons and to stay there, unfortunately there are very few owners who have the funds to put in - therefore you have to be realistic about what level the club will reach. When you look at the countries football pyramid, we are in the top ten - pretty good really.

[Marsdinho]

There are a lot of wild assumptions on this tread mate, not just me. Some of the Daily Mail readers on here are convinced it's a bad thing "based on a hunch". None of us know anything, so let's trust Kats judgement and not be negative about it just because it's Chinese.

[benjii]

Reading between the lines, it would appear that our current owner isn't willing/able to provide the investment to the club she thinks it needs.

 

Asset strippers tend to buy clapped out businesses at rock bottom prices. This doesn't strike me as anything like that. Are the combined assets of the business worth more than £190m? I don't see them as that type of buyer.

 

"A desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio"

 

Some might say she's lost interest and/or has other priorities.

 

The references to the quoted figure of the Liebherr wealth - as compared with her personal wealth - sound like a leak to me and basically a way of telling the public that, yes, she's loaded, but she isn't herself a multi-billionaire and can't / won't chuck in tens of millions constantly. That angle has never been reported before and I can't see a journo would suddenly dig into it now.

 

I've never seen a creditable source for the reported value of Markus' alleged wealth. Clearly he was very wealthy and had millions in cash but the "several billion" reports all seemed to be based on the value of the Liebherr businesses, rather than his.

 

So, basically, I think Kat feels she can't take us any further without being unduly exposed. Which is fair enough.

 

Whatever happens, the Liebherrs have been nothing but brilliant for the club, the fans and the city.

[SuperSAINT]

The references to the quoted figure of the Liebherr wealth - as compared with her personal wealth - sound like a leak to me and basically a way of telling the public that, yes, she's loaded, but she isn't herself a multi-billionaire and can't / won't chuck in tens of millions constantly. That angle has never been reported before and I can't see a journo would suddenly dig into it now.

 

I've never seen a creditable source for the reported value of Markus' alleged wealth. Clearly he was very wealthy and had millions in cash but the "several billion" reports all seemed to be based on the value of the Liebherr businesses, rather than his.

 

So, basically, I think Kat feels she can't take us any further without being unduly exposed. Which is fair enough.

 

Whatever happens, the Liebherrs have been nothing but brilliant for the club, the fans and the city.

 

This.

[doddisalegend]

The references to the quoted figure of the Liebherr wealth - as compared with her personal wealth - sound like a leak to me and basically a way of telling the public that, yes, she's loaded, but she isn't herself a multi-billionaire and can't / won't chuck in tens of millions constantly. That angle has never been reported before and I can't see a journo would suddenly dig into it now.

 

I've never seen a creditable source for the reported value of Markus' alleged wealth. Clearly he was very wealthy and had millions in cash but the "several billion" reports all seemed to be based on the value of the Liebherr businesses, rather than his.

 

So, basically, I think Kat feels she can't take us any further without being unduly exposed. Which is fair enough.

 

Whatever happens, the Liebherrs have been nothing but brilliant for the club, the fans and the city.

 

In fairness the number of rich people who could truly take us further must be tiny. Seeing as PL Clubs are some of the richest in world football it seems pretty amazing that we still need more cash to achieve anything. Striving to finish top 10 every season and push on to win some cups and occasionally get into Europe should be pretty achievable with vast new investment surely.

[Marsdinho]

In fairness the number of rich people who could truly take us further must be tiny. Seeing as PL Clubs are some of the richest in world football it seems pretty amazing that we still need more cash to achieve anything. Striving to finish top 10 every season and push on to win some cups and occasionally get into Europe should be pretty achievable with vast new investment surely.

 

If you want to “achieve anything” when “some of the richest clubs in world football” are your competition….you need cash.

[pluto]

Some information about lander sports, its people and what their future plans would be is a starting point before any pen is put to paper. A 'Wealthy owner' can do very little these days as its commercial revenue that rules the roost after tv revenue.

[mrfahaji]

Please, some decorum. It's who paid whom.

 

Like.

[doddisalegend]

If you want to “achieve anything” when “some of the richest clubs in world football” are your competition….you need cash.

 

 

Yeah we already have alot of that last season every team in the PL was in the top 50 richest clubs in Europe and as others have pointed out no one has any idea if Lander has any money or if they'd actually plan to blow it Man City style on saints (not that they can do that thanks to FFP anyway).

[rooney]

The Sky TV etc. gravy train will not last for ever and Kat became owner by default, You cannot blame her if she wishes to consider selling. We do not know if she is really interested in Football apart from the sentimental aspect, but she has done us proud.

[hutch]

I think the fact that the exclusive due diligence period lapsed without any agreement is a far more reliable piece of information than a planted story in a newspaper.

 

Offering to up the price by 5% and pay in instalments doesn't sound too appealing. I think it's Lander feeding the media to try and leverage some kudos for their brand locally in China by association with us. I would be surprised if this goes ahead, although the Chinese do have some strange ways of doing business.

[verlaine1979]

The references to the quoted figure of the Liebherr wealth - as compared with her personal wealth - sound like a leak to me and basically a way of telling the public that, yes, she's loaded, but she isn't herself a multi-billionaire and can't / won't chuck in tens of millions constantly. That angle has never been reported before and I can't see a journo would suddenly dig into it now.

 

I've never seen a creditable source for the reported value of Markus' alleged wealth. Clearly he was very wealthy and had millions in cash but the "several billion" reports all seemed to be based on the value of the Liebherr businesses, rather than his.

 

So, basically, I think Kat feels she can't take us any further without being unduly exposed. Which is fair enough.

 

Whatever happens, the Liebherrs have been nothing but brilliant for the club, the fans and the city.

 

Yup, there's a strong hint in the article that her reported wealth has been wildly overstated. Selling the club to diversify makes sense if it was one of the most valuable things you inherited, but less so if it was just one element of a multi-billion estate.

[Window Cleaner]

Yup, there's a strong hint in the article that her reported wealth has been wildly overstated. Selling the club to diversify makes sense if it was one of the most valuable things you inherited, but less so if it was just one element of a multi-billion estate.

 

 

Which is exactly what i've been suggesting for years isn't it. Rich but not that rich, just an overused (and erroneous) extrapolation of the wealth of the whole family.

[Charlie Wayman]

I still rather they ****ed off. I'm happy with the way the club is run I just have a bad feeling that this lot will turn out like the guy at Villa or one of the many other far eastern owners that have generally been gash.

 

We have, imo, a great owner who I'd rather keep.

 

Just wishful thinking really, KL wants out otherwise none of these rumours would arise in the first place let alone persist. What's the point of an owner who doesn't want to be here?

 

Obviously to the Liebherr's Trust SFC is just another investment ("she wishes to diversify her investments") and explains in a jot all the comings and goings and upheaval of recent years since Marcus died.

 

Looking back you could easily take the view that emotionally we backed the wrong horse when Cortese walked, he may well have been the one to take us to another level rather than KL but of course without the expressed backing of the owner he was not in a position to do that financially.

 

You do not need to be an expert of family politics to work out how Marcus's love of Cortese as a proxy-son played out with KL and other family members. Gnashing of teeth and sharpening of blades no doubt! Of course the lady got what she wanted ibut that game may have played itself out now and the prize no longer is of importance.

[verlaine1979]

Which is exactly what i've been suggesting for years isn't it. Rich but not that rich, just an overused (and erroneous) extrapolation of the wealth of the whole family.

 

Quite. If the story about him handing back his share of the Liebherr business was true, it always seemed unlikely that he'd sauntered off and built up another billion pound business in the meantime.

[John Boy Saint]

I think the fact that the exclusive due diligence period lapsed without any agreement is a far more reliable piece of information than a planted story in a newspaper.

 

Offering to up the price by 5% and pay in instalments doesn't sound too appealing. I think it's Lander feeding the media to try and leverage some kudos for their brand locally in China by association with us. I would be surprised if this goes ahead, although the Chinese do have some strange ways of doing business.

Chinese Government not only have slammed the lid on Johnnie Foreigners over populating their football teams by sticking in a quota per team. But they have also recently slapped restrictions on big Chinese money being invested overseas rather than at home where it's needed. So this staged buying could well be Lander zig-zagging to get the Chinese Government off their scent.

[VectisSaint]

Which is exactly what i've been suggesting for years isn't it. Rich but not that rich, just an overused (and erroneous) extrapolation of the wealth of the whole family.

Around the time that Markus took us over it was reported on the Forbes List (which is about as authoritative as you can get outside seeing his personal bank accounts) that his personal wealth was around $4bn, nothing to do with the Liebherr family as a whole, as they were separately listed. Whether he still had this mount when he died is another matter, and undoubtedly Katherina did not inherit this much.

[Window Cleaner]

Quite. If the story about him handing back his share of the Liebherr business was true, it always seemed unlikely that he'd sauntered off and built up another billion pound business in the meantime.

 

As I've said on several occasions, there is no real evidence available in the public domain that Ms Liebherr disposes of anywhere near 1 billion dollar/swiss francs/euros etc. She may of course be the proud possessor of a billion Nigerian nagwes or similar.

MALI International was wound up with very little fuss in the years following Marcus's sad demise. The fact that Cortese seemed to be the sole administrator on a part time basis for much of that time would tend to indicate that is was just a solid but relatively simple affair.

[Window Cleaner]

Around the time that Markus took us over it was reported on the Forbes List (which is about as authoritative as you can get outside seeing his personal bank accounts) that his personal wealth was around $4bn, nothing to do with the Liebherr family as a whole, as they were separately listed. Whether he still had this mount when he died is another matter, and undoubtedly Katherina did not inherit this much.

 

Show me that then.The only Liebherr's that exist on Forbes list are Willy and Isolde and Family.

[shurlock]

As I've said on several occasions, there is no real evidence available in the public domain that Ms Liebherr disposes of anywhere near 1 billion dollar/swiss francs/euros etc. She may of course be the proud possessor of a billion Nigerian nagwes or similar.

MALI International was wound up with very little fuss in the years following Marcus's sad demise. The fact that Cortese seemed to be the sole administrator on a part time basis for much of that time would tend to indicate that is was just a solid but relatively simple affair.

 

That's not my understanding - had a friend who was an inhouse lawyer at a major global bank and was involved in drawing up a contract to refinance one of Mali's loan. She was astonished how willingly the bank bent over backwards to give Mali generous terms because of its size and importance as a client.

[Window Cleaner]

That's not my understanding - had a friend who was an inhouse lawyer at a major global bank and was involved in drawing up a contract to refinance one of Mali's loan. She was astonished how willingly the bank bent over backwards to give Mali generous terms because of its size and importance as a client.

 

It was obviously a solid group of companies but I doubt it was much more than that.

[Morse]

Football fans are without doubt the most over sentimental bunch of hopeless romantics in the playground. Marcus Liebherr did exceptionally well with his investment in SFC, and I would hazard a guess if he was alive today would be looking to cash in his investment. All this talk about Katarina looking after her father's legacy and memory is utter ******. She's cashing in at the right time too, and good luck to her for it.

 

Whether the Chinese lot will turn out to be good for SFC or not only time will tell but alas it's out of our hands.

[Morse]

Just wishful thinking really, KL wants out otherwise none of these rumours would arise in the first place let alone persist. What's the point of an owner who doesn't want to be here?

 

Obviously to the Liebherr's Trust SFC is just another investment ("she wishes to diversify her investments") and explains in a jot all the comings and goings and upheaval of recent years since Marcus died.

 

Looking back you could easily take the view that emotionally we backed the wrong horse when Cortese walked, he may well have been the one to take us to another level rather than KL but of course without the expressed backing of the owner he was not in a position to do that financially.

 

You do not need to be an expert of family politics to work out how Marcus's love of Cortese as a proxy-son played out with KL and other family members. Gnashing of teeth and sharpening of blades no doubt! Of course the lady got what she wanted ibut that game may have played itself out now and the prize no longer is of importance.

 

Have you been working with glue or solvents in an unventilated room ?

[CB Fry]

Just wishful thinking really, KL wants out otherwise none of these rumours would arise in the first place let alone persist. What's the point of an owner who doesn't want to be here?

 

Obviously to the Liebherr's Trust SFC is just another investment ("she wishes to diversify her investments") and explains in a jot all the comings and goings and upheaval of recent years since Marcus died.

 

Looking back you could easily take the view that emotionally we backed the wrong horse when Cortese walked, he may well have been the one to take us to another level rather than KL but of course without the expressed backing of the owner he was not in a position to do that financially.

 

You do not need to be an expert of family politics to work out how Marcus's love of Cortese as a proxy-son played out with KL and other family members. Gnashing of teeth and sharpening of blades no doubt! Of course the lady got what she wanted ibut that game may have played itself out now and the prize no longer is of importance.

There's drivel and then there's drivel.

[Disco Stu]

Makes me nervous. I'm pretty content how things are regarding ownership and investment.

[Whitey Grandad]

Makes me nervous. I'm pretty content how things are regarding ownership and investment.

 

Mmm.. Isn't there a Chinese curse:

"May you live in interesting times"

[Shance]

Not too sure about this tbh.

[VectisSaint]

Show me that then.The only Liebherr's that exist on Forbes list are Willy and Isolde and Family.

Show me that then.

[farawaysaint]

Is it strange that the thing that is worrying me the most is the Echo stories? They only get like this when they are being fed trickles, pretty sure this is a certainty now and things will not be so rosy.