Rumours of takeover/investment interest

[Saint86]

So is there any truth in the investment rumours [emoji851][emoji12]

 

 

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No, just the same people who enjoy shouting down anyone who dreams of investment. The latest classic, we have a 30k seater home attendance stadium, to get tickets for the final you had to have been to home games and you could buy only 1 ticket.... then they were shocked when people with few games could get a ticket.... Nothing to do with the number of seats at wembley being bigger than our ****ing stadium

[Saint86]

No, just the same people who enjoy shouting down anyone who dreams of investment. The latest classic, we have a 30k seater home attendance stadium, to get tickets for the final you had to have been to home games and you could buy only 1 ticket.... then they were shocked when people with few games could get a ticket.... Nothing to do with the number of seats at wembley being bigger than our ****ing stadium

 

Nor anything to do with the fact that we sold 55k tickets when we were in the 3rd tier.... Nope, we just don't have the fanbase size.

[SaintBobby]

Seriously, does it really matter? I don't think those gas towers have ever detracted from my match experience or stopped any single fan from going to the match, ever. We're less than ten minutes walking distance from town FFS.

 

Stadium MK is out in ring road retail park nowheresville. You making out it is some kind of fan-attracting fun-palace is laughable.

 

I'd rather the city was developed around the docks than around the St Mary's area anyway. That's what this city is supposed to be about. The sea.

 

I notice you didn't answer the question - what has MK got that you want next to us that adds 5,700 fans to the gate and isn't already minutes away in the city centre?

 

If you genuinely think that putting a Harvester and a Cinema next to a football stadium adds 6,000 to the gate then condescension is what you deserve.

 

Isn't the whole thing about getting more cash out of the current fans?

 

I'm a season ticket holder from London. I spend a lot of money in Southampton, but not that much at St Mary's.

 

I probably spend £1,000 a year on staying at the Premier Inn or Jury's Inn just down the road (about 12 overnights a season), about £2,000 a year on food/drink in Southampton (c25 matches at anywhere from £25-£200 a pop).

 

The club takes hardly any of this £3K per annum (maybe 10% max of the food/drink stuff).

 

Ok, readily accept that I'm not a typical fan - either in location or expenditure. But if those gas towers were converted into somewhere I could eat, drink and stay overnight, and owned by SFC, the club would get a lot, lot more money out of me every year,

[The Cat]

Nor anything to do with the fact that we sold 55k tickets when we were in the 3rd tier.... Nope, we just don't have the fanbase size.

 

Looks like you forgot to switch logins there. Well done.

[scotty]

Looks like you forgot to switch logins there. Well done.

 

[trousers]

Looks like you forgot to switch logins there. Well done.

Don't you just hate it when that happens? [emoji1]

[trousers]

Don't you just hate it when that happens? [emoji1]

Yeah!

[CB Fry]

Isn't the whole thing about getting more cash out of the current fans?

 

I'm a season ticket holder from London. I spend a lot of money in Southampton, but not that much at St Mary's.

 

I probably spend £1,000 a year on staying at the Premier Inn or Jury's Inn just down the road (about 12 overnights a season), about £2,000 a year on food/drink in Southampton (c25 matches at anywhere from £25-£200 a pop).

 

The club takes hardly any of this £3K per annum (maybe 10% max of the food/drink stuff).

 

Ok, readily accept that I'm not a typical fan - either in location or expenditure. But if those gas towers were converted into somewhere I could eat, drink and stay overnight, and owned by SFC, the club would get a lot, lot more money out of me every year,

Pretty sure we don't own that land, so the club would have to sink investment into that, then the small matter of the investment in building and maintaining hotels and restaurants on the site - are you thinking we are building and running these developments or are we going to allow hotel companies and restaurants to do it?

 

I'd call the whole thing a total distraction from the core business of the football club, and in reality with the returns barely moving the needle for the funds/energy invested. At best it might be a revenue stream to rely on if we end up in the Championship. And as I said before SMS is in the city centre. There are loads of hotels in walking distance. I know some people wish we were living the dream of being on a ring road trading estate but we're not.

 

I'm struggling to think of a football club anywhere that can point to their hotel/entertainment interests being the driver of their on-pitch success. Certainly none of our current top six, and no global major club I can name. Will owning a hotel drive us up the table past sixth place?

 

Reading and Bolton have hotels bolted on to their grounds, though.

[nta786]

Isn't the whole thing about getting more cash out of the current fans?

 

I'm a season ticket holder from London. I spend a lot of money in Southampton, but not that much at St Mary's.

 

I probably spend £1,000 a year on staying at the Premier Inn or Jury's Inn just down the road (about 12 overnights a season), about £2,000 a year on food/drink in Southampton (c25 matches at anywhere from £25-£200 a pop).

 

The club takes hardly any of this £3K per annum (maybe 10% max of the food/drink stuff).

 

Ok, readily accept that I'm not a typical fan - either in location or expenditure. But if those gas towers were converted into somewhere I could eat, drink and stay overnight, and owned by SFC, the club would get a lot, lot more money out of me every year,

 

That 3k for Saints would be worth around a penny for them.

There is no need- unless the city coucil rejuvenates that end of Southampton

[FloridaMarlin]

Pretty sure we don't own that land, so the club would have to sink investment into that, then the small matter of the investment in building and maintaining hotels and restaurants on the site - are you thinking we are building and running these developments or are we going to allow hotel companies and restaurants to do it?

 

I'd call the whole thing a total distraction from the core business of the football club, and in reality with the returns barely moving the needle for the funds/energy invested. At best it might be a revenue stream to rely on if we end up in the Championship. And as I said before SMS is in the city centre. There are loads of hotels in walking distance. I know some people wish we were living the dream of being on a ring road trading estate but we're not.

 

I'm struggling to think of a football club anywhere that can point to their hotel/entertainment interests being the driver of their on-pitch success. Certainly none of our current top six, and no global major club I can name. Will owning a hotel drive us up the table past sixth place?

 

Reading and Bolton have hotels bolted on to their grounds, though.

 

So does Hampshire CCC!

[VectisSaint]

So does Hampshire CCC!

MK stadium contains integral hotel with rooms over looking the pitch

[sandwichsaint]

Genuine question, don't know the answer, are Spurs ST's going to be cheaper or dearer in the new stadium? From what I've seen for the most prime positions/best hospitality they are creating another layer(s) of premium pricing above what they already have. But for the ordinary punter? They will tap into their existing waiting lists and fan base, so will they be financing the new stadium (in part) by raising ticket prices per unit, or will the increased supply of seats lead to them reducing prices? I would expect their 20k waiting list will mean they can move over and charge more, win win!

 

Nothing like us, we don't have 'any' pent-up demand for STs on tap, I would suggest that any increase at SMS would lead to cheaper prices overall (?).

 

Take this at face value, the cost of an extra seat might be 3k (quoted from up thread), I would suggest that seat could raise an average of £500/year (that figure might be too high based on occupancy/ratio of full cost to concessions etc). On those, totally hypothetical figures, you are looking at a pay-back of minimum 6 years, possibly up to 7-8. Clearly there are a lot of variables in the mix but would a 6-7 year pay-back make business sense? The hardest part of the equation seems to be finding bums to sit on the seats.

[Mattio]

I'm struggling to think of a football club anywhere that can point to their hotel/entertainment interests being the driver of their on-pitch success. Certainly none of our current top six, and no global major club I can name. Will owning a hotel drive us up the table past sixth place?

 

Reading and Bolton have hotels bolted on to their grounds, though.

Obviously not a driver but the Hotels, bars and restaurants are a source of income for Chelsea at the Bridge (I know events are held throughout the year at Under the Bridge because my company is one of the users of the venue). There are additional benefits too, such as adding to the potential fanbase and increasing "value" for current fans.

[Saint-Fred]

Genuine question, don't know the answer, are Spurs ST's going to be cheaper or dearer in the new stadium? From what I've seen for the most prime positions/best hospitality they are creating another layer(s) of premium pricing above what they already have. But for the ordinary punter? They will tap into their existing waiting lists and fan base, so will they be financing the new stadium (in part) by raising ticket prices per unit, or will the increased supply of seats lead to them reducing prices? I would expect their 20k waiting list will mean they can move over and charge more, win win!

 

Nothing like us, we don't have 'any' pent-up demand for STs on tap, I would suggest that any increase at SMS would lead to cheaper prices overall (?).

 

Take this at face value, the cost of an extra seat might be 3k (quoted from up thread), I would suggest that seat could raise an average of £500/year (that figure might be too high based on occupancy/ratio of full cost to concessions etc). On those, totally hypothetical figures, you are looking at a pay-back of minimum 6 years, possibly up to 7-8. Clearly there are a lot of variables in the mix but would a 6-7 year pay-back make business sense? The hardest part of the equation seems to be finding bums to sit on the seats.

 

Spurs are already one of the highest price season tickets so we may see a new standard bearer for cost at a footy match with their new stadium.

Talking of payback on the investment, Spurs new ground will cost, what 400m? If you try to get a 7 year payback on that , it would mean about £1000 a year per seat but that's not profit as you'd need to remove operating costs for the stadium etc...not sure 7 years would be feesable for many projects of that size?

[benjii]

Right Saint Fred.

[saintquin]

Spurs are already one of the highest price season tickets so we may see a new standard bearer for cost at a footy match with their new stadium.

Talking of payback on the investment, Spurs new ground will cost, what 400m? If you try to get a 7 year payback on that , it would mean about £1000 a year per seat but that's not profit as you'd need to remove operating costs for the stadium etc...not sure 7 years would be feesable for many projects of that size?

 

You would think that more fans in the stadium would also increase income for programmes, club shop and food and drink.

[Saint-Fred]

You would think that more fans in the stadium would also increase income for programmes, club shop and food and drink.

 

I expect that they would be looking to raise their matchday income up to enear Arsenals which is something like 100m a year I think.

[Charlie Wayman]

Let's face it the match day experience at St Mary's is lousy and anything to spice it up would be welcome and long overdue. Don't hold your breath 'though as the club's fan surveys (one in action now) where people's opinions on this topic are canvassed are binned the second they are returned.

 

Personally I turn up 10 minutes before ko watch the game, have a pee in the break and go home immediately after the final whistle. No time or no interest to spend money up there on junk food or a "programme" that never tells you anything you don't already know and never lists the starting XI.

[CB Fry]

Let's face it the match day experience at St Mary's is lousy and anything to spice it up would be welcome and long overdue. Don't hold your breath 'though as the club's fan surveys (one in action now) where people's opinions on this topic are canvassed are binned the second they are returned.

 

Personally I turn up 10 minutes before ko watch the game, have a pee in the break and go home immediately after the final whistle. No time or no interest to spend money up there on junk food or a "programme" that never tells you anything you don't already know and never lists the starting XI.

 

No programme in the history of football has ever published the starting eleven.

[nta786]

Let's face it the match day experience at St Mary's is lousy and anything to spice it up would be welcome and long overdue. Don't hold your breath 'though as the club's fan surveys (one in action now) where people's opinions on this topic are canvassed are binned the second they are returned.

 

Personally I turn up 10 minutes before ko watch the game, have a pee in the break and go home immediately after the final whistle. No time or no interest to spend money up there on junk food or a "programme" that never tells you anything you don't already know and never lists the starting XI.

 

I agree with this up until those final 6 words!

[Pamplemousse]

In my opinion, the area around the river, where the aggregate works is opposite the ground, could easily be developed into something a lot better. Think the South Bank in London but in Southampton and with a view of Woolston instead.

 

OK, maybe not, but a few bars/restaurants would be so much better than what it is at the moment.

[Faz]

In my opinion, the area around the river, where the aggregate works is opposite the ground, could easily be developed into something a lot better. Think the South Bank in London but in Southampton and with a view of Woolston instead.

 

OK, maybe not, but a few bars/restaurants would be so much better than what it is at the moment.

 

Nobody is going to invest in bars and restaurants that will be used only 38 days a year. The point of the MK Stadium and surrounding complex is not that it draws extra people on match days, but that it draws people on the 300 odd days a year when there is nothing happening at the Stadium.

 

Retail is out of the question, with West Quay just around the corner. Really the only viable option is an integrated residential/leisure/marina/hotel complex. It really needs to be a "destination" in its own right - a bit like Port Solent, but obviously more accessible from the City.

[Pwoite]

So, in summary, we haven't a clue about negotiations or a possible buy out or anything else, though there are rumours of Katerina saying the interests of the club are paramount in any decision.

 

For any potential investor, what are they looking to achieve? Certainly not a return on their investment, as that simply isn't what happens in football, unless they can grow their business and sell it on. In truth, that is unlikely.

 

They might be looking to use us as a means of increasing brand awareness in the UK but there are many cheaper and more rewarding means of doing that rather than the high risk of football. Alternatively it could be a vanity project, as so many club purchases appear to be with hindsight, but would a major financial institution indulge in such things? Generally unlikely.

 

And what would be the intentions of any purchaser beyond financial or marketing gain? Do they see real reflected glory through a mid table team, or are they prepared to invest. And if they do invest, is that in players, infrastructure or both? To significantly improve the squad would require cash investment similar to the money talked about to buy it. Is anyone mad enough to do that, when the return would be minimal on the gate, in the ground, in TV rights or merchandise? Sure, success following investment could create a potentially massive Chinese marketing opportunity, but with the game in that country growing rapidly eyes will turn to domestic teams rather than European ones only 0.01% of he Chinese population will ever have heard of. So, much as I'd like to see more money for new players, development of the ground and surrounding area, better facilities on match day and so on I cannot make any financial case for why serious investment over the long term, which is critical, is going to come our way. In Katerina we trust!

[SKD]

Spurs are already one of the highest price season tickets so we may see a new standard bearer for cost at a footy match with their new stadium.

Talking of payback on the investment, Spurs new ground will cost, what 400m? If you try to get a 7 year payback on that , it would mean about £1000 a year per seat but that's not profit as you'd need to remove operating costs for the stadium etc...not sure 7 years would be feesable for many projects of that size?

 

Aren't they proposing to use WHL as the potential home of the London based NFL franchise?

 

If this happens, I would suspect that would generate a few bob in revenue its self.

 

Personally, like others have said, I feel that SMS and the surrounding area needs a bit of a face lift, especially given the corporate world football has fallen into.

[VectisSaint]

No programme in the history of football has ever published the starting eleven.

Fake news.

[Window Cleaner]

Fake news.

 

Indeed,IIRC the old programmes used to have the projected teams printed on the back cover and people made changes with a pen (or pencil in some cases) when they were announced over the tannoy. Before there were names on shirts of course, it was the way that you knew who was who in the opposing sides. They were also full of fag and drink adverts, now there's something else you don't get for your money nowadays..

Edited 15 March, 2017 by Window Cleaner

[The9]

Apart from the MK Dons, most clubs who expand their stadiums or move to a much larger new ground seem to attract the fans to fill them. I can think of Southampton, Brighton, West Ham, Manchester City, Swansea and Hull just of the top my head.

 

You can probably add Reading and Arsenal to that... both have more fans than they had at their old grounds, but only the one continually getting into the top 4 in the Premier League doesn't have many empty seats.

 

However, Darlington, Doncaster, Cardiff City, Rushden & Diamonds, and Huddersfield all have had new grounds with no particular improvement on attendance compared to the old ground at the same level, and two of them went bust trying to maintain it. Other clubs like Wolves, Blackpool, Newport, Aston Villa, Portsmouth and numerous others have moved elsewhere or added seating to existing grounds in some other way and have failed to fill the stadiums - the common factor being that all but one of them are at a lower level than they were when they expanded.

 

The main determinant of attendance is a team's success, and the main determinant of that is investment in the playing squad. Clubs with the money to build new stadiums usually have the money to improve their teams which makes them more successful, and so more people want to attend. That's how Liverpool and Man U are able to expand - the demand is already there.

 

Brighton, Man City, Swansea and Hull all had big money backers making the move viable and all of them have surged up the league compared to where they were in 2000, West Ham have slashed prices on a stadium they didn't have to pay for and have dropped in league position, whether they're actually making more money isn't clear yet, whether many of their new ST holders will come back next year isn't, either.

[holepuncture]

Isn't the whole thing about getting more cash out of the current fans?

 

I'm a season ticket holder from London. I spend a lot of money in Southampton, but not that much at St Mary's.

 

I probably spend £1,000 a year on staying at the Premier Inn or Jury's Inn just down the road (about 12 overnights a season), about £2,000 a year on food/drink in Southampton (c25 matches at anywhere from £25-£200 a pop).

 

The club takes hardly any of this £3K per annum (maybe 10% max of the food/drink stuff).

 

Ok, readily accept that I'm not a typical fan - either in location or expenditure. But if those gas towers were converted into somewhere I could eat, drink and stay overnight, and owned by SFC, the club would get a lot, lot more money out of me every year,

 

Pretty sure we don't own that land, so the club would have to sink investment into that, then the small matter of the investment in building and maintaining hotels and restaurants on the site - are you thinking we are building and running these developments or are we going to allow hotel companies and restaurants to do it?

 

I'd call the whole thing a total distraction from the core business of the football club, and in reality with the returns barely moving the needle for the funds/energy invested. At best it might be a revenue stream to rely on if we end up in the Championship. And as I said before SMS is in the city centre. There are loads of hotels in walking distance. I know some people wish we were living the dream of being on a ring road trading estate but we're not.

 

I'm struggling to think of a football club anywhere that can point to their hotel/entertainment interests being the driver of their on-pitch success. Certainly none of our current top six, and no global major club I can name. Will owning a hotel drive us up the table past sixth place?

 

Reading and Bolton have hotels bolted on to their grounds, though.

 

Good response to a good idea. Even for Reading, I doubt the hotel brings in enough cash each week to pay for a player or two, in the grand scheme it isn't going to help much in the short term.

 

On the other hand, it is also relatively low cost for the club with its huge broadcasting income, which could act like a pension should the cash stop rolling in.

 

I'd like to see some sort of pre-match bier haus arrangement at the Northam & Chapel ends, properly done, no weak p*ss beer in sight

[hackedoff]

In my opinion, the area around the river, where the aggregate works is opposite the ground, could easily be developed into something a lot better. Think the South Bank in London but in Southampton and with a view of Woolston instead.

 

OK, maybe not, but a few bars/restaurants would be so much better than what it is at the moment.

 

It,s the " view of Woolston " bit where this plan unhinges.

[Toadhall Saint]

It,s the " view of Woolston " bit where this plan unhinges.

 

Nowt wrong with woolston mush.

[sotonjoe]

Nowt wrong with woolston mush.

Apart from the poverty of aspiration and the normalisation of incest.

[Toadhall Saint]

Apart from the poverty of aspiration and the normalisation of incest.

 

Sounds like you have first hand experience

[Wade Garrett]

Apart from the poverty of aspiration and the normalisation of incest.

 

Lived there all my life, and the only case of incest I've ever come across was some lad at school who used to finger his sister for a quid a time.

[CB Fry]

Lived there all my life, and the only case of incest I've ever come across was some lad at school who used to finger his sister for a quid a time.

Who paid who?

[Saint Billy]

Moving on quickly!.

[sambosa75]

Well that escalated....

[benjii]

Lived there all my life, and the only case of incest I've ever come across was some lad at school who used to finger his sister for a quid a time.

 

[DuncanRG]

Who paid who?

 

Please, some decorum. It's who paid whom.

[Wade Garrett]

Who paid who?

 

The girl got paid. By the time she was 18, she had a Bells Whiskey bottle full of pound coins and a fanny like a ripped out fireplace.

[Saint Billy]

The girl got paid. By the time she was 18, she had a Bells Whiskey bottle full of pound coins and a fanny like a ripped out fireplace.

 

She wasn't hot then?

[Sanjay Sanchez]

The girl got paid. By the time she was 18, she had a Bells Whiskey bottle full of pound coins and a fanny like a ripped out fireplace.

 

She was unfortunate that her brother was Pat Jennings.

[mattyd]

Seriously, does it really matter? I don't think those gas towers have ever detracted from my match experience or stopped any single fan from going to the match, ever. We're less than ten minutes walking distance from town FFS.

 

Stadium MK is out in ring road retail park nowheresville. You making out it is some kind of fan-attracting fun-palace is laughable.

 

I'd rather the city was developed around the docks than around the St Mary's area anyway. That's what this city is supposed to be about. The sea.

 

I notice you didn't answer the question - what has MK got that you want next to us that adds 5,700 fans to the gate and isn't already minutes away in the city centre?

 

If you genuinely think that putting a Harvester and a Cinema next to a football stadium adds 6,000 to the gate then condescension is what you deserve.

 

People miss the point. When we left the Dell few thought we would get 25,000 fans (Stoneham argument) let alone 30,000 +. Having redeveloped land around the ground encourages non matchday activity which any business person would say is critical for a building who's principle activity is less than 25 days per year.

 

We need more revenue which bigger crowds with more "local" spending all year round and therefore become more attractive to sponsors etc. I spent Sunday in a box at White Heart lane with Saints fans who are not from Southampton. They said that they would go more often if they could get tickets easily and at late notice. Many people like a matchday experience and would enjoy having enhanced facilities etc

[Miltonaggro]

The girl got paid. By the time she was 18, she had a Bells Whiskey bottle full of pound coins and a fanny like a ripped out fireplace.

 

Dante's inferno!

[Toon Saint]

The Times reporting that Lander have offered £190m and want 100% of the club. Close to Liebherr's valuation but she will retain a minority stake until Lander meet their commitments to financial investment. This lot won't go away...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SuperSAINT]

The Times reporting that Lander have offered £190m and want 100% of the club. Close to Liebherr's valuation but she will retain a minority stake until Lander meet their commitments to financial investment. This lot won't go away...

 

I'm happy how things are. Still concerned we might get an Ellis Short or Randy Lerner.

[benali-shorts]

The Times reporting that Lander have offered £190m and want 100% of the club. Close to Liebherr's valuation but she will retain a minority stake until Lander meet their commitments to financial investment. This lot won't go away...

 

Article in full:

 

Southampton look set to become the second Premier League club to pass into Chinese ownership after receiving an improved offer from Lander Sports Development to buy a 100 per cent stake in the club for £190 million. The Chinese property development company has proposed a phased takeover in which it would initially buy into the club before going on to take full control.

 

Katharina Liebherr, the club’s owner, rejected an offer of £180 million in January, as revealed by The Times, but Lander’s improved bid is much closer to her valuation and negotiations are believed to be at an advanced stage. The sale is being handled by the Zurich office of the investment bank UBS, which has been retained by Liebherr since she inherited Southampton after the death of her father, Markus, in 2010.

 

Liebherr intends to keep some of her shares in the short term to provide continuity before selling up completely if Lander’s promises of additional investment materialise and the buy-out goes well. Lander and Southampton have been talking for more than a year, although a six-week period of exclusive negotiations ended in January without an agreement.

 

Lander appears to be happy for Liebherr to stay on as a minority shareholder and is not planning any significant changes at the club if it secures a majority stake. The chairman, Ralph Krueger, and chief executive, Gareth Rogers, are likely to remain in place, although Lander will seek representation on the board.

 

Liebherr’s willingness to sell stems from her belief that Southampton require additional investment to cement their position as a top-ten Premier League club and a desire to spread her assets across a wider portfolio. The Liebherrs’ wealth was reported to be £3 billion after Markus’s death, although that figure is understood to have referred to the entire family’s assets rather than the trust that Katharina inherited.

 

Southampton posted healthy financial results for the year ending 2015-16 last week, with post-tax profits of £4.9 million and an increased turnover of £124.3 million, although the club retains debts of almost £50 million, a factor that is believed to have played a part in the protracted negotiations.

 

Lander is seeking to become the second Chinese owner in the Premier League after Guochuan Lai’s takeover of West Bromwich Albion last year.

[scotty]

The girl got paid. By the time she was 18, she had a Bells Whiskey bottle full of pound coins and a fanny like a ripped out fireplace.

 

Coins?? How recent was this?

[hypochondriac]

This Lander Sports outfit seems pretty dodgy. If we are changing owners then I'd rather swap for another benevolent billionaire.

[trousers]

This Lander Sports outfit seems pretty dodgy. If we are changing owners then I'd rather swap for another benevolent billionaire.

Inclined to agree. This Lander group just doesn't feel right somehow. (A view not based on any tangible evidence, just a hunch).

 

That said, part of me is reassured that Katharina surely wouldn't want to sell on her father's legacy to a cowboy outfit, would she?

 

Interesting times.

[Badger]

This Lander Sports outfit seems pretty dodgy. If we are changing owners then I'd rather swap for another benevolent billionaire.

 

Hope they're not a Chinese SISU.

 

Where's Paul Allen's yacht when you need him?