Rumours of takeover/investment interest

[northam soul]

The 85% doesn't make any sense as that values the entire club at £235m. The total transfermart squad value is £170mish and that values VVD at £13m~ add in all the rest of the assets and continued revenue from the premiership and we are easily worth £400-£500m.

 

No one is going to pay £400 million for Southampton football club.

It's value is probably around £175 million if someone were to buy the whole thing, it doesn't matter what players are worth as we still owe money on them.

[Matthew Le God]

The 85% doesn't make any sense as that values the entire club at £235m. The total transfermart squad value is £170mish and that values VVD at £13m~ add in all the rest of the assets and continued revenue from the premiership and we are easily worth £400-£500m.

 

Player value is not used to determine the value of football clubs in business transactions.

[farawaysaint]

Player value is not used to determine the value of football clubs in business transactions.

 

I would be shocked if the key assets are not included in a valuation to be honest, what are you basing this statement on?

[saintsmike25]

Financial fair play rules means a £200m potential takeover doesn't mean that amount will increase the wage bill or be spent on players, it's far more likely to go on increasing our infrastructure - so in this case we could be looking at an expansion of St Mary's, which naturally follows what has been done at the club improving the youth academy building and also trying to ramp up the club's commercial activities and expanding the brand, or paying off existing debts.

[shurlock]

Player value is not used to determine the value of football clubs in business transactions.

 

You're confusing valuation with financial reports.

[Chris27687]

Player value is not used to determine the value of football clubs in business transactions.

 

You're talking ****.

 

Here's the KPMG report on football club values - page 11.

 

5. Stadium ownership

Beside players’ registrations, the stadium is one of the most relevant assets of a football club. A club-owned stadium generally means more opportunity to generate revenues. Therefore, ownership of the home ground is also considered in our formula.

 

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/it-Football-Club-2016.pdf

[Shance]

Player value is not used to determine the value of football clubs in business transactions.

 

Lol. Wrong.

[CB Fry]

There really isn't a Chinese market when it comes to supporting English sides. Chinese consumers are as interested in following star players as they are in teams and even then are likely to support sides across all the European leagues rather than be invested in one side in one league.

What about if a team is wearing a completely red shirt? They love that sh it.

[simo]

Maybe they see 200m as a fair price for share in a successful "self sustainable" profit making premier league club ?

[Saint_clark]

Financial fair play rules means a £200m potential takeover doesn't mean that amount will increase the wage bill or be spent on players, it's far more likely to go on increasing our infrastructure - so in this case we could be looking at an expansion of St Mary's, which naturally follows what has been done at the club improving the youth academy building and also trying to ramp up the club's commercial activities and expanding the brand, or paying off existing debts.

 

People say that attendances prove an expansion wouldn't be worth it, but there's a lot of evidence that points to a "build it and they will come" trend in football. If you have a ground that's easy to get to, comfortable, aesthetically pleasing...it usually winds up drawing more people in. There was an excellent chapter in the book Soccernomics about it.

In this case though, I think i'd rather the money they're putting forward be spent on acquiring some of the land around the stadium and developing it for commercial use. If we could build a "plaza" type area with Saints owned and run bars, a restaurant etc. It would make St Marys an incredibly attractive destination.

[buctootim]

The 85% doesn't make any sense as that values the entire club at £235m. The total transfermart squad value is £170mish and that values VVD at £13m~ add in all the rest of the assets and continued revenue from the premiership and we are easily worth £400-£500m.

 

Erm not really. You could buy the trio of Juventus, Lazio and AS Roma for that money - or both Lazio and Sporting Lisbon and have £300m change

Edited 26 January, 2017 by buctootim

[buctootim]

What about if a team is wearing a completely red shirt? They love that sh it.

 

Probably the main reason tbf. Also I hear the directors box has good Feng Shui

[Saint_Ash]

Players contracts are intangible assets and would be used in valuing the club.

[SuperSAINT]

Players contracts are intangible assets and would be used in valuing the club.

 

MLG will be taking names of all people that have said he's wrong and will be planning long term revenge.

[Manuel]

I know it's heresy to say it but I actually preferred the all red shirt.

[buctootim]

I know it's heresy to say it but I actually preferred the all red shirt.

 

Someone will be round with the firelighters later

[doddisalegend]

I know it's heresy to say it but I actually preferred the all red shirt.

 

say hello to saints 2017-2018 season...

 

[ringwood]

say the money or investment is to build a new stadium to take us to a higher revenue stream, and then able to keep players ?

[SKD]

Sam Wallace (who has good club connections) made it pretty clear in his preview tweet earlier that it isn't a takeover:

 

No, he said not full takeover. There's a difference.

 

If the figure of £200million is accurate, they'll be controlling stakeholders.

[Graffito]

Football must be very confusing in China with everyone wearing red shirts.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

£200m doesn't seem enough to me for 85% of the business.

 

Not when you consider VVD is worth a quarter of that alone.

[SuperSAINT]

say the money or investment is to build a new stadium to take us to a higher revenue stream, and then able to keep players ?

 

If our scouting remains tip-top, I don't see us being able to keep players any easier - the only way we can do that is to sign crap players that nobody wants.

 

Would be great if they can come in, don't rock the boat & they give us in-roads into better commercial deals & primarily stadium development expertise.

 

That would be a win-win.

[doddisalegend]

No, he said not full takeover. There's a difference.

 

If the figure of £200million is accurate, they'll be controlling stakeholders.

 

The exact text in his article is

 

The Chinese investment will not represent a takeover of the club and Southampton do not want to change the model that has made them so phenomenally successful.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/01/26/southampton-owner-katharina-liebherr-assures-fan-chinese-sale/

[angelman]

OK fine, its not a takeover, but you have then ask what they are getting for their £200m. If they were to be redeveloping the surrounding area, then do they need to buy into a club? Apart from a rich man's plaything, I cannot see why Southampton would be a good investment unless taking money out of it (as opposed to building it up and making it a lot more profitable). Having said that, I have no idea what the Chinese market is like. If they could appeal to 20 million people and get them to spend a bit and make £10 a year profit from their spending, then it makes sense. But that might be an awfully big IF. (and no, I don't expect to make anything like £10 profit from 20m Chinese per year it was just for illustrative purposes).

Edited 26 January, 2017 by angelman

[doddisalegend]

OK fine, its not a takeover, but you have then ask what they are getting for their £200m. If they were to be redeveloping the surrounding area, then do they need to buy into a club? Apart from a rich man's plaything, I cannot see why Southampton would be a good investment unless taking money out of it (as opposed to building it up and making it a lot more profitable). Having said that, I have no idea what the Chinese market is like. If they could appeal to 20 million people and get them to spend a bit and make £10 a year profit from their spending, then it makes sense. But that might be an awfully big IF. (and no, I don't expect to make anything like £10 profit from 20m Chinese per year it was just for illustrative purposes).

 

Do we actually know its £200 million. Its a number people keep banding about but I don't know if its been confirmed anywhere.

[Saint Billy]

A bit frustrating that we only have a vague statement to go by and we are still left clutching at straws.

 

I suppose everything is still at a sensitive stage so would of thought that no statement would have been more appropriate but being a fan it would be nice to know who is planning on owning us.

[verlaine1979]

Hmm, looking back at the various articles from when the exclusivity period was announced, it appears that £200m was the original figure mooted for a takeover of the club, but now that it's apparently just a stake/partnership there's actually no indication of what the investment figure would be.

[VectisSaint]

Do we actually know its £200 million. Its a number people keep banding about but I don't know if its been confirmed anywhere.

The Bloomberg article this morning suggested Lander may buy control for as much as 200 million pounds. This is not definite, but would be a controlling interest, not just an investment as suggested by many on here.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-26/china-s-lander-to-buy-stake-in-southampton-premier-league-team?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[SNSUN]

say hello to saints 2017-2018 season...

 

 

At quick glance, the bloke at the back on the far right has a touch of the "Hojbjerg" about him...

[Matty's Caddy]

What have the Chinese ever done for us?

 

Origami

[ashnats]

Origami

 

Japanese

[benali-shorts]

Bit more in the times today:

 

Southampton have rejected an offer of £180 million from Lander Sports Development to buy the club, The Times has learnt.

 

Negotiations with the Chinese property company are continuing despite considerable irritation inside the club at Lander’s announcement on the Shenzhen stock exchange yesterday that an agreement had been reached in principle, but the two parties are a long way apart in their valuation of the club.

 

Katharina Liebherr, Southampton’s owner, is understood to value the club at £270 million so a sale is unlikely to be completed imminently. Moreover, it is unclear how much of Southampton Liebherr is willing to sell.

 

In an open letter to the fans yesterday the Swiss heiress referred to a “potential partnership” whereas Lander’s aim is to buy the club or secure a controlling interest.

 

Liebherr inherited Southampton as part of her late father Markus’s £3 billion trust after his death in 2010, a year after he had bought the club for just £14 million after they had been placed in administration.

 

Under the family’s stewardship Southampton have risen from mid-table in League One to become a top-ten Premier League club, and on Wednesday reached their first leading final for 14 years courtesy of their EFL Cup semi-final win over Liverpool.

 

Lander’s announcement came shortly after Southampton’s 2-0 aggregate victory, with club insiders suspicious of the timing and speculating that it was an attempt to speed up the deal.

 

Industry experts have valued Southampton at between £160 million and £220 million, as the club’s sound financial footing and huge success in player trading is offset by a seemingly limited potential for significantly increasing its match-day and commercial revenue.

 

I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club

In the club’s most recently published accounts to June 2015, Southampton recorded turnover of £113.7 million and profits of £14.9 million, down almost £15 million from the previous year, almost exclusively because of a reduction in the value of player sales.

 

The club’s revenue from television rights has increased significantly from £84 million in 2014-15 to a minimum of £105 million this season, although the wage bill will also have increased. Southampton have debts of £62 million, £32.7 million of which is owed to Liebherr, with the rest split between two separate bank loans.

 

Liebherr wrote to fans yesterday to say that she would act in the best interests of the club, but insisted that greater commercial growth was crucial to its future.

 

“I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club,” she wrote. “The Premier League is increasingly competitive; we need to keep moving forward and look to new markets for commercial growth, innovation and to share our journey.”

 

Southampton and Lander were unavailable for comment last night.

[SuperSAINT]

Bit more in the times today:

 

Southampton have rejected an offer of £180 million from Lander Sports Development to buy the club, The Times has learnt.

 

Negotiations with the Chinese property company are continuing despite considerable irritation inside the club at Lander’s announcement on the Shenzhen stock exchange yesterday that an agreement had been reached in principle, but the two parties are a long way apart in their valuation of the club.

 

Katharina Liebherr, Southampton’s owner, is understood to value the club at £270 million so a sale is unlikely to be completed imminently. Moreover, it is unclear how much of Southampton Liebherr is willing to sell.

 

In an open letter to the fans yesterday the Swiss heiress referred to a “potential partnership” whereas Lander’s aim is to buy the club or secure a controlling interest.

 

Liebherr inherited Southampton as part of her late father Markus’s £3 billion trust after his death in 2010, a year after he had bought the club for just £14 million after they had been placed in administration.

 

Under the family’s stewardship Southampton have risen from mid-table in League One to become a top-ten Premier League club, and on Wednesday reached their first leading final for 14 years courtesy of their EFL Cup semi-final win over Liverpool.

 

Lander’s announcement came shortly after Southampton’s 2-0 aggregate victory, with club insiders suspicious of the timing and speculating that it was an attempt to speed up the deal.

 

Industry experts have valued Southampton at between £160 million and £220 million, as the club’s sound financial footing and huge success in player trading is offset by a seemingly limited potential for significantly increasing its match-day and commercial revenue.

 

I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club

In the club’s most recently published accounts to June 2015, Southampton recorded turnover of £113.7 million and profits of £14.9 million, down almost £15 million from the previous year, almost exclusively because of a reduction in the value of player sales.

 

The club’s revenue from television rights has increased significantly from £84 million in 2014-15 to a minimum of £105 million this season, although the wage bill will also have increased. Southampton have debts of £62 million, £32.7 million of which is owed to Liebherr, with the rest split between two separate bank loans.

 

Liebherr wrote to fans yesterday to say that she would act in the best interests of the club, but insisted that greater commercial growth was crucial to its future.

 

“I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club,” she wrote. “The Premier League is increasingly competitive; we need to keep moving forward and look to new markets for commercial growth, innovation and to share our journey.”

 

Southampton and Lander were unavailable for comment last night.

 

Wowsers. Some good detail in there, assuming it's true.

 

Probably makes me a little more nervous if they want a controlling stake.

Edited 27 January, 2017 by SuperSAINT

[Saint Billy]

Bit more in the times today:

 

Southampton have rejected an offer of £180 million from Lander Sports Development to buy the club, The Times has learnt.

 

Negotiations with the Chinese property company are continuing despite considerable irritation inside the club at Lander’s announcement on the Shenzhen stock exchange yesterday that an agreement had been reached in principle, but the two parties are a long way apart in their valuation of the club.

 

Katharina Liebherr, Southampton’s owner, is understood to value the club at £270 million so a sale is unlikely to be completed imminently. Moreover, it is unclear how much of Southampton Liebherr is willing to sell.

 

In an open letter to the fans yesterday the Swiss heiress referred to a “potential partnership” whereas Lander’s aim is to buy the club or secure a controlling interest.

 

Liebherr inherited Southampton as part of her late father Markus’s £3 billion trust after his death in 2010, a year after he had bought the club for just £14 million after they had been placed in administration.

 

Under the family’s stewardship Southampton have risen from mid-table in League One to become a top-ten Premier League club, and on Wednesday reached their first leading final for 14 years courtesy of their EFL Cup semi-final win over Liverpool.

 

Lander’s announcement came shortly after Southampton’s 2-0 aggregate victory, with club insiders suspicious of the timing and speculating that it was an attempt to speed up the deal.

 

Industry experts have valued Southampton at between £160 million and £220 million, as the club’s sound financial footing and huge success in player trading is offset by a seemingly limited potential for significantly increasing its match-day and commercial revenue.

 

I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club

In the club’s most recently published accounts to June 2015, Southampton recorded turnover of £113.7 million and profits of £14.9 million, down almost £15 million from the previous year, almost exclusively because of a reduction in the value of player sales.

 

The club’s revenue from television rights has increased significantly from £84 million in 2014-15 to a minimum of £105 million this season, although the wage bill will also have increased. Southampton have debts of £62 million, £32.7 million of which is owed to Liebherr, with the rest split between two separate bank loans.

 

Liebherr wrote to fans yesterday to say that she would act in the best interests of the club, but insisted that greater commercial growth was crucial to its future.

 

“I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club,” she wrote. “The Premier League is increasingly competitive; we need to keep moving forward and look to new markets for commercial growth, innovation and to share our journey.”

 

Southampton and Lander were unavailable for comment last night.

 

Ahh that makes more sense of it. Chinese sounding a bit too eager.

[hypochondriac]

Hmm that doesn't make it seem like they know what they are doing...

[Saint_Ash]

I reckon Lander may have shot themselves in the foot.

[SonicBoom]

Seems a bit of a mess from the start. They announced six weeks of exclusivity which came and went with no real comment. Then Lander blurt out some news in China which I don't think pleased Saints and forced Kat to say something before she was ready. I think you can tell that by the content of the letter, it was very light on detail but the essence was "don't worry, I'm not going to do anything that isn't good for the club".

It's impossible to know whether this was deliberate ploy by Lander to bring things into the light and push it along, or simply a cultural difference in the way business is conducted. Either way I think it irritated Kat and Saints.

[Convict Colony]

Reckon they are grandstanding for the chinese market at the moment, wanting to capitalise on the news of the final to get more coverage of the announcement.

[Junior Mullet]

The first half-decent Chinese footballer is going to be in such demand! He'll be worth a fortune.

 

Back to Lander - has anything been confirmed about the form of investment? ie. whether Kat is selling part of her share in the club (in which case she would be cashing in) or whether Lander would be taking newly issued shares, in which case it would represent new funding for the club? There are many different shapes a potential 'investment' might take. Until the facts are known it's probably best to enjoy the fact that we have got to a cup final and the rest of the season.

[SuperSAINT]

The first half-decent Chinese footballer is going to be in such demand! He'll be worth a fortune.

 

Back to Lander - has anything been confirmed about the form of investment? ie. whether Kat is selling part of her share in the club (in which case she would be cashing in) or whether Lander would be taking newly issued shares, in which case it would represent new funding for the club? There are many different shapes a potential 'investment' might take. Until the facts are known it's probably best to enjoy the fact that we have got to a cup final and the rest of the season.

 

The only known facts are:

 

- Lander is interested in some kind of investment (How much '£' & '%' is speculation.)

- Kat's statement says "partnership".

[thorpie the sinner]

Sky Pete O'Rourke saying we have rejected £180m bid for club by Lander

[a1ex2001]

It's all very vague and a bit unsettling the sooner they get this sorted out the better.

[SW5 SAINT]

Surely the value of contracts i.e the television money guaranteed from Sky, must be part of the equation in determining the value of a football club. Going forward with parachute payments, that must be worth about £200m on it's own. Lets face it with a privately owned company like Southampton, the owner can in theory just pocket that money.

[Saint_clark]

Surely the value of contracts i.e the television money guaranteed from Sky, must be part of the equation in determining the value of a football club. Going forward with parachute payments, that must be worth about £200m on it's own. Lets face it with a privately owned company like Southampton, the owner can in theory just pocket that money.

 

Not really because we have outgoings that need to be paid. Profit was less than £20million last year I think. Now that the owner can pocket if they so choose...

[a1ex2001]

Sky Pete O'Rourke saying we have rejected £180m bid for club by Lander

 

She'd be mad to accept that, the club is clearly worth more in this market.

[SuperSAINT]

Sky Pete O'Rourke saying we have rejected £180m bid for club by Lander

 

He's copied that from the article in The Times this morning (See post #790)

[thorpie the sinner]

He's copied that from the article in The Times this morning (See post #790)

 

Ah ok, will flick back

[a1ex2001]

Not really because we have outgoings that need to be paid. Profit was less than £20million last year I think. Now that the owner can pocket if they so choose...

 

The owner can also borrow massive amounts of money against the clubs future earnings pocket that and then run off!

[tajjuk]

Hmmn, investment is fine, control or full selling to these guys is a worry IMO.

 

Anything unstabling the system we have built behind the scenes would a be a disaster IMO. Either these guys would be looking for pure profit which is no great way to run a club and would probably see us sell our best players every year or they might be looking for some quick fix to success route that could massively back fire and the club completely loses it's identity.

 

Ideally I'd hope the club are looking to raise some capital to invest into the stadium and the areas around the ground to increase our commercial and match day income without impacting the playing squad too much. They then see selling a share of the club as the best way to do this and push the club on even further.

 

That's my ideal scenario, the night mare one is some asset stripping takeover akin to what is happening to Hull.

[Whitey Grandad]

The owner can also borrow massive amounts of money against the clubs future earnings pocket that and then run off!

 

That would be illegal.