Fitzhugh Fella Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Since getting back from Israel I have been mulling the game and the team selection which involved leaving 4 first teamers at home and having untested players on the bench. I also wanted to start this thread before tomorrow's match. Hindsight is a wonderful thing etc I can't see the point of Southampton FC spending 9 months, scrapping like hell to qualify for the Europa League group stages only to prioritise the Premier League once the season starts. Personally I think a stronger team v Be'er Sheba would probably have earned all 3 points which would have put us in a very strong position. OK that would have lessened our chances away to Leicester but so what. Is a point at Leicester more important than a win in the Europa? I know some will say the Premier League must remain our bread and butter but if that is the case just what was the point of busting a gut to qualify for Europe in the first place. Be'er Sheba were there for the taking, but Puel was too negative (in my opinion). If the Leicester game was to decide who went down fair enough but it is one in 38 games and the season is yet young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Personally i think rotating during the group stages is completely the right call. We've already got 4 points via rotating and can't see a reason why we won't qualify from the group using this approach. Once we get to the knock out stages that is the time to start making the call as to whether we want to priortise it or our league position or trying to win the european competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 1 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Personally i think rotating during the group stages is completely the right call. We've already got 4 points via rotating and can't see a reason why we won't qualify from the group using this approach. Once we get to the knock out stages that is the time to start making the call as to whether we want to priortise it or our league position or trying to win the european competition. Yes I understand what you are saying but with two games v Milan coming up we potentially spurned a good opportunity in Israel. Only time will tell if Puel made the right call but, I repeat, after spending 9 months of blood sweat and tears to qualify for the Europa League and then to send out a weakened team when 3 points were attainable, begs my question - is an away game at Leicester more important than a winnable Europa Group game? If win tomorrow and v Milan away and I might be persuaded you and Claude have got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 100% agree. Frankly bizarre we left our captain at home for our first away fixture in Europe proper for a decade. We should have prioritised this over Leicester all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Clearly the Europa league is easier than the PL we've played a second string side in two games, picked up 4 pts, top the group and have yet to concede a goal. Rotation is the way to go as far as I can see if we get past the group stage then things might change but right now things are working out well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 4 points is a good return. If we win all of our home games, then we'll qualify from the group. Admittedly though, I would be disappointed if we didn't name a strong team to play Inter at the San Siro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Two reasons: 1) Leicester are better than Be'er Sheva so it's logical to play our strongest team against the stronger opponent if we want good results from both games. 2) We will face better opponents in the knockout stages and will need to rotate then to give ourselves a better chance of going as far as possible, so we will need league points in the bank to fully prioritize the Europa without our final league position suffering to much as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Yes I understand what you are saying but with two games v Milan coming up we potentially spurned a good opportunity in Israel. Only time will tell if Puel made the right call but, I repeat, after spending 9 months of blood sweat and tears to qualify for the Europa League and then to send out a weakened team when 3 points were attainable, begs my question - is an away game at Leicester more important than a winnable Europa Group game? If win tomorrow and v Milan away and I might be persuaded you and Claude have got it right. That would be the Milan who've played their reserves against the worst 2 teams in the group and lost both times. Thus rendering it very unlikely they'll progress unless they play their best team which they obviously have no intention of doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 I completely agree with Duncan in terms of the mindset. Whilst at the same time not being convinced that we would have won if the 4 absentees had played. That said, having got home at 2.30am this morning from Israel, and feeling shattered for most of today, I can imagine that those who played on Thursday may well be jaded tomorrow. So hopefully we can get a big boost tomorrow from those 4 players coming in much fresher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 If the Europa game was a must win game then fine but it wasn't, we got a point, we'll smash them at home and we've rested some players. By the way the only player that would make a difference was Austin and he's ****ed after 45 minutes let alone 2 games in a week with some travelling. Calm down and let the manager and sport scientists who are paid big money and have much more fitness information available to them than you and your thoughts make the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Puel was bought in for his European experience, so what part of that do you find so hard to comprehend FF. Let him do the job he was selected for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 1 October, 2016 Share Posted 1 October, 2016 Very much happy with the rotation, it's why we've tried to go for two decent players in every position and I'm pretty sure everyone would have taken 4 points from our first two games. Especially as Inter look poor and we know we can beat Beer at home and Sparta away. After seeing the opposition so far and Inters poor form, I fully expect us to win the group even with rotating players. Remember we've still got Boufal and Jay Rod to come back as well, further players that will need games not to mention youngsters need game time, what better than league cup games and europa league games against lesser opposition. Plus we are going to champions this Sunday, another win there and our season is really taking shape, though I'd be happy with a point. I think the rotation will come good later in the season and I'd expect full side in the knock out stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 If we had put out a team of reserves and kids, I'd have been p*ssed. We didn't though, we just rotated players with others who are more than capable. The likes of Yoshida, Clasie, Long and Martina are all good enough to get a decent result and we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiasaint Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Is a point at Leicester more important than a win in the Europa? Simple maths says the answer to this is yes. A point in a group advancement scenario will always be worth less than one in a head to head. Puel knows this and managed accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in NZ Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 100% agree. Frankly bizarre we left our captain at home for our first away fixture in Europe proper for a decade. We should have prioritised this over Leicester all day long. Still don't understand when Fonte spoke of how he was looking forward to playing in Europe that he hasn't even played one minute of either game. How does Puel decide to rest Fonte and not VVD, for example. Something to do with age I guess but, agree with others, that we fight tooth and nail to get into Europe and still field a second-string side. Not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 If we want to do this European malarkey again next season, then we have to aim for 7th in the PL. We'll never know whether a stronger squad would have earned 2 more points at HBS, but personally I doubt that it will turn out to have been a decisive factor in getting to the knockout stage. So it was the correct principle to apply. We have moved on from that team that used to get a European adventure once in a blue moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 We have a strong squad which is there to be used. If we'd played Stephens, Reed and McQueen I'd understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffaSaint Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Still don't understand when Fonte spoke of how he was looking forward to playing in Europe that he hasn't even played one minute of either game. How does Puel decide to rest Fonte and not VVD, for example. Something to do with age I guess but, agree with others, that we fight tooth and nail to get into Europe and still field a second-string side. Not convinced. Fonte played the midweek cup v palace so maybe for the next midweek puel will rest vvd and play fonte Sent from my HUAWEI GRA-L09 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 You can't have good players in the squad and expect them to push the first team players without them getting a game every now and then. Squad rotation is part of the managers job nowadays. At at the end of the season will points at HBS or Leceiester be more significant, I suspect it's the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Getting a point away in Europa was all that was needed If we had got a win it would have been a bonus. If we had lost it would not have been a big deal. Win at home and draw away and we will win the group, we only have to come 2nd to go through. Of course having fully fit squad against Leicester is more important. Surprised anyone cannot see that. Would have been different if we had not won against Praha or if Inter were not chucking their games. However just one conspiracy note, is it possible that Fonte and Bertrand were not left at home for disciplinary reasons? Though if so you might have expected Forster as well. I don't actually think this is the case but it does seem odd that some of our players were pictured rather the worse for wear after the Wet Sham game (Stevo was not of course, probably just carrying a slight knock). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 (edited) well 20 posts so far.... and opinions are more of less evenly split...... There's more to selecting " the best team on the day " and it's down to the manager to carry the can IF things go wrong. I'm reminded of Lawrie McMenemy's quote : " as a manager you can never win. If we win, fans say the team played well...if we lose ....it's my fault because I picked them "..... Leaving the four regulars at home was obviously preparation for the Leicester game, bearing in mind that had we had a better start, we'd have been higher than 9th .....but with the resurgent Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea already showing good form, we can't expect to see them finishing lower than they did last season, but will we? I repeat my pre-season prediction that it'll be a good team that finishes 10th this season.....and tough luck on some of those who finish lower than 6th. Predictably losing the Pelle / Mane goal tally shows up glaringly, and although Shane Long had his best-ever season last time around, he's struggling now and whatever it is that " Thierry " Redmond is expected to produce - it's a long time coming. Thankfully Charlie Austin hasn't forgotten how to score and the big uncertainty around JayRod's fitness also remains a big question. I belong to the "old school" that likes seeing a big striker up top, but being totally reliant on Austin is a bit unnerving. Puel made the judgment that we need to try out " the rest of the squad " early on, in order to assess their potential for the League run-in in April / May, (and who will make the eventual Europa League play-offs - should we qualify). Introducing the likes of Hesketh (who has enormous potential IMO) only goes to show Puel's commitment to the Academy concept and Jake ....will need to put Thursday's game down to experience in " big boy's football" and move on. Thursday's call was a brave one, and although we should have been better, those " second choicer's" who came into the side DAJFU and are one step closer to succeeding. By Christmas we (hopefully) will have qualified in this EL group, seen a return of form from JayRod, Long and Redmond ....and see exactly what Boufal is capable of. Edited 2 October, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 It worked on Thursday, mission accomplished as I said at the time but personally still feels deflating to deprioritise a tournament we tried so hard to win, to such an extent that the captain doesn't even travel. A defeat today is hardly going to define our season irrevocably, even a win won't but it would be nice of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 2 October, 2016 It worked on Thursday, mission accomplished as I said at the time but personally still feels deflating to deprioritise a tournament we tried so hard to win, to such an extent that the captain doesn't even travel. A defeat today is hardly going to define our season irrevocably, even a win won't but it would be nice of course. I agree entirely but I guess the argument will only be settled once the season is over or at least the Milan games are over. I still can't see the point of expanding so much energy to get into the EL only to downgrade its importance to a 1in 38 Premier league outing. Something not reported but the Be'er Sheva players were so chuffed with their 0-0 draw against us they went on a lap of honour. It was a tad embarrassing but fair play to the Saints fans (we were kept behind for 15 minutes) when the Israeli team approached our end everyone applauded them much to their bemusement. That sent a signal to me that perhaps Puel had given them too much respect and Thursday night was a missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Still don't understand when Fonte spoke of how he was looking forward to playing in Europe that he hasn't even played one minute of either game. How does Puel decide to rest Fonte and not VVD, for example. Something to do with age I guess but, agree with others, that we fight tooth and nail to get into Europe and still field a second-string side. Not convinced. Because VVD is about 8 years younger than Fonte and therefore maybe has better recovery? Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Four points out of two games. Unbeaten in Europe. Climbing up the Premiership. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kucho Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Because VVD is about 8 years younger than Fonte and therefore maybe has better recovery? Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk This, people underestimate the importance of recovery, especially for top athletes over 30. Reckon we will play are strongest team at the San Siro, all the players would want to play that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Four points out of two games. Unbeaten in Europe. Climbing up the Premiership. What's the problem? Who said there was a problem, I was merely highlighting with a tad more ambition it could have been 6 points which would have given us more leeway v Milan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 That would be the Milan who've played their reserves against the worst 2 teams in the group and lost both times. Thus rendering it very unlikely they'll progress unless they play their best team which they obviously have no intention of doing? They cant, they haven't named their best players in their Europa League squad for fear of a hefty fine. The commentators on BT Sport mentioned it a couple of times on Thursday. They obviously have no interest in the competition nor do they wish to progress in case they get landed with a massive fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 I agree entirely but I guess the argument will only be settled once the season is over or at least the Milan games are over. I still can't see the point of expanding so much energy to get into the EL only to downgrade its importance to a 1in 38 Premier league outing. Something not reported but the Be'er Sheva players were so chuffed with their 0-0 draw against us they went on a lap of honour. It was a tad embarrassing but fair play to the Saints fans (we were kept behind for 15 minutes) when the Israeli team approached our end everyone applauded them much to their bemusement. That sent a signal to me that perhaps Puel had given them too much respect and Thursday night was a missed opportunity. The side picked for Thursdays game was good enough to win it. That's all you can ask for from a manager. Up to the players to go win it, they didn't. The only missed opportunity is from the players who didn't step up when given a chance against as you say, a side they should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Should we get to the knockouts, you'll see our strongest team playing in Europa then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Who said there was a problem, I was merely highlighting with a tad more ambition it could have been 6 points which would have given us more leeway v Milan? Good, I am glad we agree that there isn't a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 (edited) We didn't bust a gut to get into the EL it is great reward for finishing high up the league. Long and Martina could easily play over Cedric and Austin in any game. Targett has filled in for Bertrand capably so is just Fonte and Davis who had little rest in summer and no rest at international break. It is what rotation is about and if not going to play then might as well excuse from the travel and get full benefit. No problem with it all Edited 2 October, 2016 by whelk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 its a fine line and we got it about right the other night 1 point away in israel is pretty good. we'll beat then at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris27687 Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Whilst Inter are clearly a great team - they can't play their best players in Europe die to the FFP thing. It would be like us having to play the team we played against Be'er Sheva every game - going to be hard to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Had we beaten Sunderland & Watford things we may have had different priorities . Although we've picked up lately, we're probably a bit lower in the league than we'd want to be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 2 October, 2016 Share Posted 2 October, 2016 Something not reported but the Be'er Sheva players were so chuffed with their 0-0 draw against us they went on a lap of honour. It was a tad embarrassing but fair play to the Saints fans (we were kept behind for 15 minutes) when the Israeli team approached our end everyone applauded them much to their bemusement. That sent a signal to me that perhaps Puel had given them too much respect and Thursday night was a missed opportunity. How do you know that they don't do that every game? Their team had already beaten Olympiakos, Celtic and Inter Milan this season. A point away was a good return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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