17 managers in 20 years

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Interesting article in today's Guardian on Wenger's 20 years in charge. It investigates how many permanent managers the other clubs then (1996) in the premiership have had in the intervening years and us and Forest come up top with 17. I was going to name them to see if they were correct but I lost the will to live around Wotte.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/21/arsene-wenger-arsenal-1966-premier-league-rivals-where-are-they-now

[Golden Balls]

Koeman still the only one with 2 full seasons?

[Pancake]

Koeman still the only one with 2 full seasons?

 

Jones, WGS, Burley, Adkins?

 

Edit: ignore me, I see you said 2 full seasons.

Edited 22 September, 2016 by Pancake

[trousers]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southampton_F.C._managers

[Whitey Grandad]

Frequent changes of manager are also one of the reasons for frequent changes of players.

[saint si]

Jones, WGS, Burley, Adkins?

 

Edit: ignore me, I see you said 2 full seasons.

 

Jones did all of 97-98, 98-99 and part of 99-00 before he had to go on gardening leave and Hoddle came in.

[angelman]

I'm sure Leeds, currently on 16, will soon join and surpass us. In fact I am surprised that they aren't way out in front as Celino seems to get through one a week. Having said that, the Grauniad hasn't included Eddie Gray who with 26 matches in charge, out does about half a dozen of our permanent managers.

[SonicBoom]

Different game nowdays. If you are good you tend to go to a bigger job quickly. If you are ****e you tend to end up on Sky as an expert pundit.

[CB Saint]

What is scary is from 1892 to 2000 we had 23 managers

 

from 2000 to 2016 we have had 19 (including two stand ins)

[sadoldgit]

The game has changed big time. The manager used to be the main person in the club and would stay for years. They come and go like kit changes now. Wenger is the exception but there are many Gooners who wished he had left years ago! How many posters on here were calling for Koeman's head when we had our blip earlier in the year? Four games in and there were people on here saying that Puel would be gone by Christmas. The first season with Lawrie Mac we went down. If that happened now he would probably have been sacked. Yet as managers fail and get sacked they still find jobs elsewhere. Must be good to know that if you fail you will get a decent pay off and another job soon after. Who'd be a football manager eh?

[Wade Garrett]

I wonder if manager's would last longer in their jobs if they didn't have Director of Football's over their shoulders, interfering with transfers.

 

Dont get me wrong, this is not a dig at Les Reed. Hopefully Puel will be here for a good while.

[Cartman]

I wonder if manager's would last longer in their jobs if they didn't have Director of Football's over their shoulders, interfering with transfers.

 

Dont get me wrong, this is not a dig at Les Reed. Hopefully Puel will be here for a good while.

 

I'd expect most people would last longer in their jobs without a boss evaluating their performance.

A coach's job is to make a fit and well drilled team out of the group of players he's got, and to communicate to the DoF and recruitment staff where the squad is lacking in quality and/or quantity, not mess around with transfers.

[Fan The Flames]

Judging from the fact that the period with lots of managers has seen us experience a stable prem period, relegation to League 1 and a rise to European qualification, it doesn't really matter.

[CB Fry]

Judging from the fact that the period with lots of managers has seen us experience a stable prem period, relegation to League 1 and a rise to European qualification, it doesn't really matter.

Absolutely it doesn't.

 

We had a pretty solid period of success with a high managerial turnover from 1998 up to the end of the Luggy season, and of course our rise through the divisions was punctuated with plenty of managerial upheaval.

 

Plus unstable Chelsea and Man City have pi ssed all over super stable Arsene in the same time.

 

Up there with net spend as a spectacular false metric.

[Nordic Saint]

Some I liked, some I didn't, and it wasn't necessarily only dependent on their results. How trustworthy they seemed was an important factor. I know some Saints fans think very highly of Pardew but I could never stand the man:

 

Liked:

Alan Ball

Nigel Adkins

Gordon Strachan

Ronald Koeman

 

Disliked:

Ian Branfoot

Dave Jones

Glenn Hoddle

Alan Pardew

 

Others, like Jan Poortvliet and Paul Sturrock, were not very good managers so I wanted them sacked but I didn't particularly dislike them.

 

I'm growing to like Puel.

[New Forest Steve]

I wonder if manager's would last longer in their jobs if they didn't have Director of Football's over their shoulders, interfering with transfers.

It's a good question very ably handled by the post below

 

A coach's job is to make a fit and well drilled team out of the group of players he's got, and to communicate to the DoF and recruitment staff where the squad is lacking in quality and/or quantity, not mess around with transfers.

 

 

 

The point is Puel is a coach not a manager. It's the modern way and most clubs work like that nowadays. I think the reasoning behind it is keeping continuity and making the transition smoother as coaches come and go. Players are essentially club signings not the coach's signings (obviously there's some input). So if the coach leaves the new guy doesn't inherit a group of players put together by someone who's no longer involved in the club and who's 'vision' for them, went with him. Theoretically the wheels just keep turning but with a different coach in place. From a clubs point of view it also means it's not such a 'biggie' to replace a coach if he's not performing, tho' that's arguable.

 

I think Fergie was probably the last of the old school managers, though I'm not really sure what the Wenger/Arsenal set up is.

Edited 22 September, 2016 by New Forest Steve

[angelman]

It all started going wrong when Nicholl got the sack

[New Forest Steve]

Some I liked, some I didn't, and it wasn't necessarily only dependent on their results. How trustworthy they seemed was an important factor. I know some Saints fans think very highly of Pardew but I could never stand the man:

 

Liked:

Alan Ball

Nigel Adkins

Gordon Strachan

Ronald Koeman

 

Disliked:

Ian Branfoot

Dave Jones

Glenn Hoddle

Alan Pardew

 

Others, like Jan Poortvliet and Paul Sturrock, were not very good managers so I wanted them sacked but I didn't particularly dislike them.

 

I'm growing to like Puel.

 

Seem to remember Sturrock only being given a handful of games and his results weren't too shabby. I suppose tho', to lose the dressing room after only 6 games does make you a pretty poor manager

[Dark Munster]

Seem to remember Sturrock only being given a handful of games and his results weren't too shabby. I suppose tho', to lose the dressing room after only 6 games does make you a pretty poor manager

Indeed, he had a decent record for us. He gets unfairly blamed for the Wigley/Saggy debacle.

[CB Fry]

I wonder if manager's would last longer in their jobs if they didn't have Director of Football's over their shoulders, interfering with transfers.

 

.

 

Or maybe they'd last less time with huge amounts of their time spent being browbeaten by avaricious agents, being bombarded with video highlights reels, or pi ssing the club's money away massively overpaying for the left back and winger they had two years ago at their previous club because its easy to stick with who you know even if their legs have gone, I'll chuck him four years on silly money because I like his wife and kids and, well, there's a bung in it.

 

In other news, Leicester City have one. Manchester City have one. Barcelona have one.

[Dark Munster]

Some I liked, some I didn't, and it wasn't necessarily only dependent on their results. How trustworthy they seemed was an important factor. I know some Saints fans think very highly of Pardew but I could never stand the man:

 

Liked:

Alan Ball

Nigel Adkins

Gordon Strachan

Ronald Koeman

 

Disliked:

Ian Branfoot

Dave Jones

Glenn Hoddle

Alan Pardew

 

Others, like Jan Poortvliet and Paul Sturrock, were not very good managers so I wanted them sacked but I didn't particularly dislike them.

 

I'm growing to like Puel.

No mention of Saggy? Or maybe he would have to go into a whole new category of his own. ("Loathed/despised")

[Nordic Saint]

Seem to remember Sturrock only being given a handful of games and his results weren't too shabby. I suppose tho', to lose the dressing room after only 6 games does make you a pretty poor manager

 

Probably a bit unfair of me to say he was not very good. He was an excellent lower league manager and won 3rd division and 2nd division titles with Plymouth, as well as being named divisional manager of the year twice. As I said, I never disliked him and am pleased to hear he is doing well in retirement in Plymouth.

[Fan The Flames]

Probably a bit unfair of me to say he was not very good. He was an excellent lower league manager and won 3rd division and 2nd division titles with Plymouth, as well as being named divisional manager of the year twice. As I said, I never disliked him and am pleased to hear he is doing well in retirement in Plymouth.

 

Although he has been diagnosed with Parkinson disease and is being sued because he said in his autobiography that a player couldn't come to training because he still had an erection from taking Viagra.

 

i wish him all the best.

[ooh it's a corner]

what would be interesting would be to understand how many managers left (for bigger and better things) versus how many were sacked.

 

So, if my memory serves, then Strachan chose to leave, as did Burley, Hoddle, Redknapp, Poch and Koeman.

 

So, 17 becomes 11 ?

 

Not sure we would have kept any one of them for the 20 years Wenger has been in charge, but 17 in 20 years makes us look like a "hire 'em, fire 'em" club likes Leeds, whereas the truth isn't that clean cut

[Nordic Saint]

Slimy Pardew reviled by most in the football world:

 

https://www.balls.ie/football/johnny-giles-alan-pardew-shane-long-dive/347036

[New Forest Steve]

Although he has been diagnosed with Parkinson disease and is being sued because he said in his autobiography that a player couldn't come to training because he still had an erection from taking Viagra.

i wish him all the best.

Really ? .... I've heard some 'sickie' excuses in my time but that's way out there !!

[red&white56]

Interesting read, but if Poch hadn't bought himself out of his contract he would still be here - 4 years on. If Koeman hadn't walked away he'd still be here.

 

My point being that SFC's current leadership is looking for stability and offering long term contracts and not of all the changes are due to the club.

 

if anyone has the knowledge it would be good to know how many managers walked away (e.g. Strachan) and how many were fired.

[CB Fry]

Interesting read, but if Poch hadn't bought himself out of his contract he would still be here - 4 years on. If Koeman hadn't walked away he'd still be here.

 

My point being that SFC's current leadership is looking for stability and offering long term contracts and not of all the changes are due to the club.

 

if anyone has the knowledge it would be good to know how many managers walked away (e.g. Strachan) and how many were fired.

Souness - quit

Jones - gardening leave/paid off

Hoddle- quit

Gray - sacked

Strachan - quit

Sturrock - mutual

Wigley - sacked

Scum - quit

Burley - quit

Pearson - not renewed/sacked

Jan- sacked

Wotte - sacked

Pards- sacked

Nigel- sacked

Poch- quit

Koeman- quit

Edited 25 September, 2016 by CB Fry

[sadoldgit]

Slimy Pardew reviled by most in the football world:

 

https://www.balls.ie/football/johnny-giles-alan-pardew-shane-long-dive/347036

 

Whilst he said that Long had a "history" I don't recall him saying it definitely wasn't a pen. More like he wasn't sure.

[Charlie Wayman]

Some I liked, some I didn't, and it wasn't necessarily only dependent on their results. How trustworthy they seemed was an important factor. I know some Saints fans think very highly of Pardew but I could never stand the man:

 

Liked:

Alan Ball

Nigel Adkins

Gordon Strachan

Ronald Koeman

 

Disliked:

Ian Branfoot

Dave Jones

Glenn Hoddle

Alan Pardew

 

Others, like Jan Poortvliet and Paul Sturrock, were not very good managers so I wanted them sacked but I didn't particularly dislike them.

 

I'm growing to like Puel.

 

Did you get to meet them all personally then?

[david in sweden]

I wonder if manager's would last longer in their jobs if they didn't have Director of Football's over their shoulders, interfering with transfers.

 

Dont get me wrong, this is not a dig at Les Reed. Hopefully Puel will be here for a good while.

 

that's a point of course, but I wonder how many managers know who is available /suitable in the same way as the data that The Black Box provides.

Of course every manager knows the players he wants to sign, but that is a personal thing and surely rules out a lot of good players they've never heard of.

 

I can think that Koeman had a few names that the Black Box also threw up, but leaving it just to the Manager to choose everyone (ala Mourinho) does limit the possibilities of signing a good /better player. Giving the manager a " totally free hand " can also lead to someone buying another Osvaldo ....because he liked him from a previous club situation.

.

There seems to be a bit of negativity about possible interest in Ben Arfa.

If Puel can get him to play as he wants then OK, but getting someone to " fit the formation " has to be the priority - if not - we end up with another Gaston.

 

I can think that the Black Box found Alderweireld for us , but I wonder how much Puel knows / knew about Hojdbjerg before he came?

Edited 25 September, 2016 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

Interesting read, but if Poch hadn't bought himself out of his contract he would still be here - 4 years on. If Koeman hadn't walked away he'd still be here.

 

My point being that SFC's current leadership is looking for stability and offering long term contracts and not of all the changes are due to the club.

 

if anyone has the knowledge it would be good to know how many managers walked away (e.g. Strachan) and how many were fired.

 

 

Of course, Managers want the best deal they can get , too. .and Koeman certainly did in going to Everton.

 

But they also want success for their teams which often involves "big money transfers" and the sort of salary levels that Saints are unable to match up to.

It's not a case of Katarina not wanting to invest, but at the end of the day the FFP /FPP(?) rules that dictate how much we can spend. It favours the bigger clubs unfairly.