Niall Quinn on the 'Southampton way'

[Disco Stu]

Interesting read on Skysports today: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10584908/the-southampton-way-a-blueprint-for-others-to-follow-says-niall-quinn

[LegalEagle]

"They aren't a top six club". Errrr, yes we are. Check the final league table last season. Or did all the media luvvies favourite club, West Ham, finish above us? Great to see them struggling.

[St Louis]

Really interesting article, thanks.

Interestingly I heard a journalist on the radio the other day talking about how special Boufal is as a player, and that Saints had basically pitched themselves as the club for him to 'enter' the Premier League, progress and adjust as a player and then move on to one of the big boys in a couple of years (whether that was speculation or fact, I'm not sure). But it looks and sounds like we now accept that this is the way of modern football, but instead of burying our heads and ignoring the economics of it all, we embrace it. I for one am glad that we are a club that accepts this and because of that are always prepared for the next exile.

I think this is one of the reasons we are a really attractive proposition to the most promising up and coming players who are destined for the top one day (probably) like Van Dijk, Forster, Hojberg, Boufal, etc.

[Deano6]

We aren't a top 6 club and nor are Leicester.

 

Check the table this year, or the year before last. Or before that, or before that...

[St Louis]

"They aren't a top six club". Errrr, yes we are. Check the final league table last season. Or did all the media luvvies favourite club, West Ham, finish above us? Great to see them struggling.

 

We aren't traditionally (or perceived as) a Top 6 club though. We massively over-achieved last season and to come anywhere near that this season would be an even bigger achievement (more quality players have left, new manager, new system, unlikely Liverpool & Chelsea, etc will be as poor)

 

I do agree with you on the West Ham thing though, everyone in the media speaks about what a great season they had last year, and talk as if they were the big achievers after Leicester.

[Super_Uwe]

"They aren't a top six club". Errrr, yes we are. Check the final league table last season. Or did all the media luvvies favourite club, West Ham, finish above us? Great to see them struggling.

 

Yes he said that, but then followed it with "Not yet." Don't personally think what he said was in any way negative about what we are doing, in fact I think he is quite envious of how well we have progressed. And anyway, he is quite right - we finished 7th and 6th the past couple of years, but we need to continue this progress if we are going to be a proper top six club.

[VectisSaint]

Turkish will be in melt down mode when reads this. Its like Quinn is a member of the Cult of Cortese.

The issue that Quinn misses though is that the Academy conveyor belt has not worked for thr lsst 2 or 3 years, the model Quinn is talking about requires 2 or 3 new young players to come through each year. But it isn't happening amy more. Aparr from Targett none have really come throug now for 3 years (JWP broke through 4 or is it 5 years ago now (and is still not a regular first pick). The Southampton Way referred to in this article is no more. It is deceased.

[stpedro]

Turkish will be in melt down mode when reads this. Its like Quinn is a member of the Cult of Cortese.

The issue that Quinn misses though is that the Academy conveyor belt has not worked for thr lsst 2 or 3 years, the model Quinn is talking about requires 2 or 3 new young players to come through each year. But it isn't happening amy more. Aparr from Targett none have really come throug now for 3 years (JWP broke through 4 or is it 5 years ago now (and is still not a regular first pick). The Southampton Way referred to in this article is no more. It is deceased.

 

deceased is a bit harsh. Perhaps dormant and hopefully stirring would be better.

[washsaint]

Quite surpised -that is a well thought out piece from Quinn. I don';t believe he is just talking about the Academy: our recruitment process of buying young, unpolished talent and honing their skills means their resale value is enormous (potentiallY) which, in turn, allows us to reinvest and continue on our path.

 

It is also much harder for younger players to break into a top 6/8 team than a mid-table/lower half Prem team so I would expect it to take longer for younger players to break through now.

[trousers]

Interesting read on Skysports today: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10584908/the-southampton-way-a-blueprint-for-others-to-follow-says-niall-quinn

 

"They aren't a top-six club. Not yet. But neither are they a bubble waiting to pop."

 

Eh? I thought we were on the cusp of yet another meltdown a week or so ago?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't get it . I thought had Cortese stayed non of the players would have been sold , therefore the model Quinn is on about is Les & Kat's .

[Saint86]

Turkish will be in melt down mode when reads this. Its like Quinn is a member of the Cult of Cortese.

The issue that Quinn misses though is that the Academy conveyor belt has not worked for thr lsst 2 or 3 years, the model Quinn is talking about requires 2 or 3 new young players to come through each year. But it isn't happening amy more. Aparr from Targett none have really come throug now for 3 years (JWP broke through 4 or is it 5 years ago now (and is still not a regular first pick). The Southampton Way referred to in this article is no more. It is deceased.

 

Thats a really poor outlook to be honest Vectis. We are moving into the generation of players that came through when cuts were being made to the youth team. Cortese's management of the club signed players like Stephens and Gallagher and identified the weakness. He also drove the clubs policy and ethos and set it up so that we have quality coming through behind that black hole in quality.... Look at players like Sims, Statterly etc. If they singed 7,8,9 years ago they will have benefited massively from the coaching and set up of the youth teams since we have been in League 1. The block of kids before that were having their formative training when we were in dire straights lets not kid ourselves. Our under 23's/21's are on fire this season, they won the u21 cup previously and a lot of that generation are technically u18's. Its no mean feet considering we compete with Manchester City style campuses.

 

And you obviously haven't read the article if you assume it only refers to the academy - although if it is deceased we should knock down the ML Pavilion?!?! No need for it anymore I assume? But not only that, the whole set up of doing due diligence and having a plan stems from cortese's influence on the club and the foundations he laid. It is madness to ignore the influence he had on the club and dangerous to believe the PR crap that it all comes from Les Reed alone. It all went hand in hand.

[St Neel]

Turkish will be in melt down mode when reads this. Its like Quinn is a member of the Cult of Cortese.

The issue that Quinn misses though is that the Academy conveyor belt has not worked for thr lsst 2 or 3 years, the model Quinn is talking about requires 2 or 3 new young players to come through each year. But it isn't happening amy more. Aparr from Targett none have really come throug now for 3 years (JWP broke through 4 or is it 5 years ago now (and is still not a regular first pick). The Southampton Way referred to in this article is no more. It is deceased.

 

I think the Southampton Way is in excellent health. its not just the academy - its also about signing good young players like Mane, Wanyama, and Schneiderlin (and most likely Van Dijk and Forster, and hopefully Boufal and Hojbjerg), giving them a platform to do well in, and selling on to bigger clubs once they have proved themselves in the premier league. As the article says. Yes, there are fewer academy graduates coming through to the 1st team - but you are never going to bring 2 or 3 new players into a top half premier league side every year. But there are graduates are going out on loan to Championship and L1 clubs, which is excellent.

 

A very good article IMO

[VectisSaint]

deceased is a bit harsh. Perhaps dormant and hopefully stirring would be better.

 

So most people miss the point. The point is that Quinn is talking about a model that has not been in place for 2 or 3 years now. Thus the article is a load of rubbish

It shows what so many seem to have a problem.with, that the model Cortese put in place, whether good or bad is no longerbthe model and the original Southampton Way no longer exists. A new one may well exist but bears little relationship to the original. The current model no longer relies to a significant extent on the Academy, but instead on replacing players that leave with younger cheaper models. Not saying wherher this is good or bad just thay Quinn has demonstrated in his article that he has no understanding of how the club currently wworks.The Club has moved on since Cortese left but people like Quinn don't appear to have noticed.

[Delmary]

Is the PR machine preparing the chosen ones return?

[Saint Fen]

I think the Southampton Way is in excellent health. its not just the academy - its also about signing good young players like Mane, Wanyama, and Schneiderlin (and most likely Van Dijk and Forster, and hopefully Boufal and Hojbjerg), giving them a platform to do well in, and selling on to bigger clubs once they have proved themselves in the premier league. As the article says. Yes, there are fewer academy graduates coming through to the 1st team - but you are never going to bring 2 or 3 new players into a top half premier league side every year. But there are graduates are going out on loan to Championship and L1 clubs, which is excellent.

 

A very good article IMO

 

Great post, totally agree with what you said.

 

Really interesting article.

[Saint Fen]

So most people miss the point. The point is that Quinn is talking about a model that has not been in place for 2 or 3 years now. Thus the article is a load of rubbish

It shows what so many seem to have a problem.with, that the model Cortese put in place, whether good or bad is no longerbthe model and the original Southampton Way no longer exists. A new one may well exist but bears little relationship to the original. The current model no longer relies to a significant extent on the Academy, but instead on replacing players that leave with younger cheaper models. Not saying wherher this is good or bad just thay Quinn has demonstrated in his article that he has no understanding of how the club currently wworks.The Club has moved on since Cortese left but people like Quinn don't appear to have noticed.

 

Sorry I don't agree with this. I'll new way would have meant we finished our highest position in the premiership a point you may have missed however I like everyone else knows we won't finish as high as we did last season this year.

 

Would you keep Wayama and Pelle for them to leave on a free next year and Mane's value would have decreased massively as he would be on the last year in his contract, it's obvious he didn't want to be here. I'm not sure what the club is meant to do or what people expect. Ask yourself a question if you were playing for Stoke and Man Utd or Man City come in would you be happy at Stoke on a lower wage and a club that is less likely for success? The players don't have the same affinity that we as fans have.

[baggytrousers]

We aren't a top 6 club and nor are Leicester.

 

Check the table this year, or the year before last. Or before that, or before that...

 

Yeah, let's have an argument over how big a club we actually are.

 

Surely the most salient point about this good article is that as a club we have developed a strategy which works well in the modern football world we have today with it's crazy wages and insane transfer fees. That strategy was developed by Cortese and has been continued and taken forward by the club under Les Reed's guidance. As Quinn says it's about recognising that losing good players is inevitable but making sure that we can replace them at a faster rate than we lose them so we gradually spiral our way up in a sustainable way.

 

It's not difficult to see when you look at it over the course of a few seasons so why, oh why, do we have an insane meltdown on here every summer. Clearly there are some people on this site that just don't get it. Read Quinn's article and learn.

[Dellman]

But the Academy seems to have dried up since the mysterious exit of Dodds and Williams, we need their successors to have the same quality, who are they?

[hutch]

But the Academy seems to have dried up since the mysterious exit of Dodds and Williams, we need their successors to have the same quality, who are they?

Or the academy seems to have dried up because it takes about 10 years to bring a kid through to maturity, and 10 years ago we were at rock-bottom, relegated and heading for liquidation.

[SonicBoom]

I think Vectis is pretty much correct. The model is not the same as it was during the Cortese era. Academy products were a big part of the strategy but that is not sustainable in the top 10 of the premier league. We aren't going to produce many players who can go from the development squad playing U23 games - to the first team. It's too big a gap. In fact you can see this from the current team. No academy players have made it in the last two or three years since we rejoined the prem.

St Fen, I don't think Vectis was complaining or saying we should have kept Wanyama etc. On the contrary.

As we became more successful the model changed to rely less on bringing thourgh 2-3 academy players each year to selling high and buying lower. If academy players happen to make it then that's a bonus but we are not reliant on that happening anymore.

[doddisalegend]

I think Vectis is pretty much correct. The model is not the same as it was during the Cortese era. Academy products were a big part of the strategy but that is not sustainable in the top 10 of the premier league. We aren't going to produce many players who can go from the development squad playing U23 games - to the first team. It's too big a gap. In fact you can see this from the current team. No academy players have made it in the last two or three years since we rejoined the prem.

St Fen, I don't think Vectis was complaining or saying we should have kept Wanyama etc. On the contrary.

As we became more successful the model changed to rely less on bringing thourgh 2-3 academy players each year to selling high and buying lower. If academy players happen to make it then that's a bonus but we are not reliant on that happening anymore.

 

 

No academy players have made it since we re-joined the prem? really?

[SonicBoom]

Well I'm scratching my head. You tell me.

Ward Prowse I guess but even he hasn't nailed down a place. Targett has played a few games but is very much the understudy. Who else? Reed hasn't progressed at all and bar a few appearances on the bench no one else has stepped up.

We certainly haven't produced a Lallana type that comes from the academy and becomes a key player. And I can't see one pushing for a place now can you ?

[alpine_saint]

Maybe I am a bit oversensitive, but I feel like there is something wrong with the tone of the article. Like its grudging and Quinn is seething with envy.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Maybe I am a bit oversensitive, but I feel like there is something wrong with the tone of the article. Like its grudging and Quinn is seething with envy.

 

The only thing I can see that's wrong with it is that it's all been said before. To think that Niall Quinn has actually been paid for this. It's basically like copying somebody else's homework.