Arsenal 2-1 Saints - Post match

[Graffito]

Read some of the foregoing and contrary to what I've read I'm quite encouraged by that performance. Perhaps the players are getting to grips with the diamond. Certainly, Arsenal would not have been happy with ceding possession for periods. Saints carved them open a few times, let down by poor finishing, principally by Long. No comment on the kn@b of a ref.

[Chez]

Painful defeat. Fonte does lay hands on him, but it's six of one. We've had our share of fortune in recent years with pens, but we could do with one or two going our way in the next few weeks.

 

For periods we looked decent, but during others we seemed to park the bus, which is a tactic I don't enjoy, but has been effective nonetheless. I don't care what anyone says, results or otherwise, the quality of the side is not as good as it was a few years back and we no longer run games. That said there were some encouraging signs in terms of getting between the lines and creation of genuine chances. Mind you if we are only going a few per game then as the season progresses relying on Shane Long to take them leaves us with a problem. He's never been clinical and we actually we need more goals than last year...hmm.

Edited 10 September, 2016 by Chez

[Wade Garrett]

Ref couldn't wait to give that penalty.

 

Long has to do better with those chances.

 

Encouraging performance though.

[John Boy Saint]

Well that was jolly japes on MOTD!

If the officials had the minerals to give the foul on Long Monreal would have been off, by the letter of the law.

[Fabrice29]

I'm not reading through 5 pages of meltdown talk but having seen the penalty incident clearly now I assume everyone agrees it's ridiculous from Fonte and a penalty yes?

[Graffito]

I'm not reading through 5 pages of meltdown talk but having seen the penalty incident clearly now I assume everyone agrees it's ridiculous from Fonte and a penalty yes?

 

No.

[Fabrice29]

Really? Have a think how you'd feel if this wasn't given a penalty at the other end..

 

[shurlock]

Really? Have a think how you'd feel if this wasn't given a penalty at the other end..

 

 

What? That Giroud was backing into Fonte and had his arm around Fonte's neck, throwing him off-balance. Howard Webb, part of the referee's union, said it was a poor decision.

[Gingeletiss]

how can he be mis-quoted when he said those words

 

You got it wrong before, now your quoting him you really are a troll!

[Fabrice29]

What? That Giroud was backing into Fonte and had his arm around Fonte's neck, throwing him off-balance. Howard Webb, part of the referee's union, said it was a poor decision.

 

Fonte turned away from the ball, found himself the facing the wrong side panicked grabbed hold of Giroud and started dangling his feet around as Giroud out muscles him. You cant grab shirts, you cant desperately dangle your leg out and not get the ball and you cant trip someone up after the ball has gone. He panicked and was reckless.

[doddisalegend]

Fonte turned away from the ball, found himself the facing the wrong side panicked grabbed hold of Giroud and started dangling his feet around as Giroud out muscles him. You cant grab shirts, you cant desperately dangle your leg out and not get the ball and you cant trip someone up after the ball has gone. He panicked and was reckless.

 

Except that its a very debatable penalty and even if it wasn't the officials should have already blown the whistle for a clear foul on Long, a player down with a head injury and a player offside interfering with play all of which happened in the seconds leading up to the incident with Fonte but were mysteriously all unseen by the officials...

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Halseys comments earlier in the week about PGMOL show its a short step from that and actively favouring the big clubs after what Leicester did last season. Theres a lot of money about in the business of the Prem and where there is big money corruption is never far away.

[grezz]

How many pens did a committed Fonte give away last season when he cared? How many so far this season when he cares?

[Saint in NZ]

I'd be interested to know what posters would have felt if the Saints had conceded the second goal in the 70th minute. Think the discussions would be somewhat different. Having said that, since when has the rule change about head injuries? Thought the game MUST be stopped as soon as a head injury occurs, especially in the goalmouth area. What was the idiot ref thinking about? Let alone awarding a debatable penalty. Lets face it, teams like Arsenal will always contrive a result, with or without the help of the officials. They are a "big-name" team and will always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Some positives though. Thought the Saints looked cohesive and constructive for a lot of the match. Big negative is lack of firepower. The Saints have missed the boat in not signing a recognised striker, whilst selling two others. Think it will come back to haunt!

[Gingeletiss]

I'd be interested to know what posters would have felt if the Saints had conceded the second goal in the 70th minute. Think the discussions would be somewhat different. Having said that, since when has the rule change about head injuries? Thought the game MUST be stopped as soon as a head injury occurs, especially in the goalmouth area. What was the idiot ref thinking about? Let alone awarding a debatable penalty. Lets face it, teams like Arsenal will always contrive a result, with or without the help of the officials. They are a "big-name" team and will always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Some positives though. Thought the Saints looked cohesive and constructive for a lot of the match. Big negative is lack of firepower. The Saints have missed the boat in not signing a recognised striker, whilst selling two others. Think it will come back to haunt!

 

You answered your own question, fact is, a guy was down with a head injury, the game should of been stopped. This is fact, and wouldn't matter if it was the 70th minute, or the last minute, the ref was wrong, he is there is apply the laws in an impartial manner, not interpolate them as suits him.

[Bstokesaint]

Fonte was wrong side for the penalty but they both had hold of each other, never a penalty. Much easier to make example of saints and Stoke with the new rules in the penalty area. Referee would not have given it at the other end

[jabei]

So I am mostly positive about Puel & most players in their positions...and we are getting better every game but am surprised that even the most fair minded posters haven't mentioned the massive slice of luck we got with our goal.It was a good free kick but it hit the bar .....it was essentially a fluke that it ended up going in.

The criticisms of Long's finishing are fair but the fact is that it's no fluke he is getting all the chances...nobody else is getting those chances and therefore we need to persevere with him and hope he finds his goalscoring boots.

[John Boy Saint]

So I am mostly positive about Puel & most players in their positions...and we are getting better every game but am surprised that even the most fair minded posters haven't mentioned the massive slice of luck we got with our goal.It was a good free kick but it hit the bar .....it was essentially a fluke that it ended up going in.

The criticisms of Long's finishing are fair but the fact is that it's no fluke he is getting all the chances...nobody else is getting those chances and therefore we need to persevere with him and hope he finds his goalscoring boots.

Cech tipped it onto the bar it was going to sneak in if he hadn't reached it.

[eddie]

Missed most of the 2nd half but from what I have seen this season I am massively underwhelmed,deserved a draw today but can't see us achieving much in the league or Europa if it stays like this,hope I am wrong but I would take a top half finish right now

 

How you are underwhelmed with that performance away at Arsenal is beyond me. We played well, Boufal will be a much needed addition but bottom line is we deserved more than 3 draws this season. Feel Puel's testing of his best 11 is understandable but means we've had a very slow start to the season which is a shame.

[david in sweden]

well it seems that " the referees " on this site are mixed in their opinions, but I feel worse this morning than I have about any negative result in a long time.

 

The game should have been stopped

 

(1)..... for the earlier blatant foul at the other end on Shane Long, (right in front of the linesman).... who has radio contact with the ref. in the middle.

.....or

(2) .....when a player with a head injury is laying motionless in the 6 yard box, and the fact is totally ignored by Madley....... all this occuring long before the " penalty incident "

 

I have seldom seen Wenger more relieved than he did in his after match interview... His comment that .." we were a good side " is no consolation at all.

 

If the referee watches a video-replay of this match.....he should feel thoroughly ashamed.

[david in sweden]

Cech tipped it onto the bar it was going to sneak in if he hadn't reached it.

 

Agreed, I watched several "replays " of that incident.....

 

It was a good free kick, and perhaps only justice that it hit Cech on the back and went in. Had he not reached it, it might well have gone in under the bar.

[Chez]

Also it was not a fluke that we carved Arsenal open leading directly to the free kick on the edge of the box. Whether there was actual contact I don't know, but if the ref had played on we would have had a man clean through with just cech to beat.

[Miltonaggro]

Don't misquote him. He obviously meant most versatile choice of midfield options. Not the best players.

 

On the contrary, Reed said we have the "BEST pool of midfield options in the Premier League" - so if anyone is misquoting or misinterpreting it is you. That, and / or chivalric defence through a form of deluded public relations telepathy. Do you agree with him, do we currently have the best pool of midfield options in the Premier League?

[ART]

Much impressed in seeing Puel's Diamond amond formation is finally coming together. An excellent performance from the team and if Shane Long had better luck we might not have lost the points to a dodgy penalty in extra time.

 

My biggest concern is Fraser Forster's complete inability to save penalties now and again. He profile shows he hasn't made 1 penalty save since his move to the Premier League.

 

This compares to former goalkeeper Artur Borac was has saved 14 penalties in the Premier League.

 

More time needs to be spent by the goalkeeping coaches on improving[ Forster's penalty positioning and ability to save them. In Europe, if we do well penalty shoot outs will be all important.

[Shance]

Don't know what the debate is about. It wasn't a pen and no one in a position where there opinions matter think it was either. Even Howard Web with replays said it wasn't a pen.

[adrian lord]

Is there any punishment for referees after making such universally derided decisions?

[OldNick]

well it seems that " the referees " on this site are mixed in their opinions, but I feel worse this morning than I have about any negative result in a long time.

 

The game should have been stopped

 

(1)..... for the earlier blatant foul at the other end on Shane Long, (right in front of the linesman).... who has radio contact with the ref. in the middle.

.....or

(2) .....when a player with a head injury is laying motionless in the 6 yard box, and the fact is totally ignored by Madley....... all this occuring long before the " penalty incident "

 

I have seldom seen Wenger more relieved than he did in his after match interview... His comment that .." we were a good side " is no consolation at all.

 

If the referee watches a video-replay of this match.....he should feel thoroughly ashamed.

the fact of the player lying injured did not get mentioned on motd.

we always get dire decisions or refs who are determined c

for Arsenal to beat us.

i think it is about time that refs had to do after match interviews

[Shance]

As long as refs and officials keep getting away with **** like yesterday then it will continue to happen. There needs to be sanctions for it.

[rallyboy]

It doesn't matter what Jose did or didn't do, the game should have been stopped twice before that ball even came back into the box.

The ref got it wrong - at least twice in that passage of play, probably three times.

[beatlesaint]

Even by the standards whereby we are usually ****ed over by bad decisions over the years this one was a little bit special

[Dangermouth]

You answered your own question, fact is, a guy was down with a head injury, the game should of been stopped. This is fact, and wouldn't matter if it was the 70th minute, or the last minute, the ref was wrong, he is there is apply the laws in an impartial manner, not interpolate them as suits him.

 

 

Agree. Presume you mean 'interpret' rather than 'interpolate', however? I think Fonte actually just stood his ground was being shoved by Giroud, got the ball as he fell, etc. Really he should have got goal-side but that's hard without pushing Giroud out of the way. Giroud looked as though he was shouting at the ref for giving a foul against him, which would actually have been a better decision. All the bits that went before also should have ensured that situation did not occur as it did. Crap ref. Over to Whitey Grandad to defend him ...

[kermitsaint]

Rewatched the game . It was a Penalty although play should have stopped before it even happened .

Fonte needs to stop wrestling with players in the box . They've been warned about it before the season started .

 

Saints should have put the game to bed way before this all happened but we have Long to thank for that .

 

The team lacks belief but thats no surprise when they are being forced to play a different type of game to the one we found effective .

 

The only interesting part of the game was Always SFC desperately trying to start a fight with someone in the game thread. Pathetic but amusing .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Cabrone]

The good news is that maybe Puel's diamond is starting to take shape, the bad news is we are toothless where it matters.

 

Yes Long is a pest and causes problems but if he doesn't put it away it counts for nought.

 

We have a goal scorer in Charlie Austin - start playing him and giving him time to get used to the setup and maybe we'll start scoring some goals......

[eelpie]

I'd be interested to know what posters would have felt if the Saints had conceded the second goal in the 70th minute. Think the discussions would be somewhat different. Having said that, since when has the rule change about head injuries? Thought the game MUST be stopped as soon as a head injury occurs, especially in the goalmouth area. What was the idiot ref thinking about? Let alone awarding a debatable penalty. Lets face it, teams like Arsenal will always contrive a result, with or without the help of the officials. They are a "big-name" team and will always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Some positives though. Thought the Saints looked cohesive and constructive for a lot of the match. Big negative is lack of firepower. The Saints have missed the boat in not signing a recognised striker, whilst selling two others. Think it will come back to haunt!

 

This

[eelpie]

The good news is that maybe Puel's diamond is starting to take shape, the bad news is we are toothless where it matters.

 

Yes Long is a pest and causes problems but if he doesn't put it away it counts for nought.

 

We have a goal scorer in Charlie Austin - start playing him and giving him time to get used to the setup and maybe we'll start scoring some goals......

 

This too

[Webby]

I don't think we played diamond yesterday. It was clearly more of a 451 with Tadic up top, sometimes JRod. The wide men dropped deep to form a 5 man midfield enabling the midfield 3 to stay tighter together.

 

Personally, I think the 5 dropped too deep at times letting Arsenal have the ball with little to no pressure. Sometimes arsenal's deepest defender was in our half, we were that deep.

 

If you're gonna play that deep, at least have Long on the half way line with his threat of pace, rather than Tadic.

[Verbal Kint]

The good news is that maybe Puel's diamond is starting to take shape, the bad news is we are toothless where it matters.

 

Yes Long is a pest and causes problems but if he doesn't put it away it counts for nought.

 

We have a goal scorer in Charlie Austin - start playing him and giving him time to get used to the setup and maybe we'll start scoring some goals......

 

I'm not sure it is starting to take shape. I'd expect the diamond to help us in games against the better sides as it does allow us to control the ball a bit more (in theory) and whatever formation we play you will always get that bit much more space in attacking areas to create a few chances against the big teams. The problem is next weekend when we will come up against another team who will be organised and make it hard for us, and I'd wager we will get a performance more like S'land than yesterday. When we don't play with width then it becomes hard to create chances, and even if we do we won't have our main goalscorer on the pitch to convert them as Austin is clearly completely unsuited to the system. I've yet to see a single good reason for us playing this diamond over a more traditional 433/4231 with Austin or Long playing as a natural centre forward.

[Saint in NZ]

You answered your own question, fact is, a guy was down with a head injury, the game should of been stopped. This is fact, and wouldn't matter if it was the 70th minute, or the last minute, the ref was wrong, he is there is apply the laws in an impartial manner, not interpolate them as suits him.

 

Sorry, meant to say that if the Saints had conceded in the 70th minute but not in the same circumstances. Think most would have thought that the result was probably fair on the run of play. I believe that they put up a good fight and we now have hope here that we will beat a lot of the other lesser teams this season. Still worried who will score the goals though and gutted we lost the way we did today.

[Avenue_Saint]

We need a quality finisher with pace. Long is missing too many decent chances.

 

On the positive, think Boufal and Tadic could create something special

[saintant]

Arsenal's first goal should have been disallowed for dangerous play - two of our players tried to head the ball clear but were faced with Koscielny's flyng boot. Spectacular finish that it was under the laws of the game today it constituted an act of dangerous play. In Europe you only have to raise your foot above knee height.

 

The penalty was of course even worse. Does anyone doubt that had we cleared the ball and broke towards Arsenal's goal Madeley would have stopped play to allow treatment to Koscielny for an obvious head injury. Yet, because Arsenal were attacking he blatantly chose to ignore the rules of the game, let them play on and then compounded his error by harshly awarding a penalty for a tangle between Fonte and Giroud which could have been called either way. The fact that there was a long delay for the penalty kick while Koscielny received treatment says it all really.

 

One of the most blatantly biased pieces of refereeing I've ever seen. Disgraceful and Madeley should be taken to task over it and forced to explain his decision to representatives of our club.

[Saints foreva]

I didn't expect much yesterday but left the stadium annoyed that we didn't get at least a point. Good efforts from our lads.

 

Looking back at the highlights, I think Forster has a chance to come and get the ball before their first goal but coming off his line isn't one of his strong points. Still fuming about that penalty, the referee could not wait to give it.

 

I thought some of our play was decent but we really will regret not investing in another striker this season. Long gives us his all, he runs and runs and runs but he misses so many chances and it's incredibly frustrating. A better striker gets at least 2 goals with his chances yesterday.

 

Romeu had a great game yesterday, our MOTM.

[Professor]

There is no doubt we should have won that match, so people should not become blinded by the early season league table. Long should have scored from at least one of those chances and probably from both of them. According to the R5Live commentary, if you can give Paul Allen any credit, we were the better team for much of the game despite this being against one of the so-called 'top clubs' at their own ground and we still have Boufal to add to the side. If anyone should learn anything from the game it is Jose Fonte giving away an unnecessary penalty. Watched it on MotD this morning and it was a second lunge, after the Arsenal player had already lost the ball. For such an experienced CB, Fonte must know he made a serious mistake that cost us a point. But it was only a point, whereas Long probably cost us 3 points.

So, its not the team and its not the formation, its down to discipline and care by individuals. That is a problem which can be overcome following which the results will come. Wins at home to Swansea and Palace would change the picture. There will be alot of pressure on the players to win those games but we have a squad that is capable. Already, the draw with Watford looks better than it did, after seeing Watford's performance against Wet Spam.

[Hodgey]

Not sure due to yesterday's result we can suddenly say that a draw at home to Watford is a decent result - unless we think that finishing below Watford is fine. The more points the likes of Burnley, Hull, Watford, Bompey, WBA and Sunderland pick up the more chance we have of getting into trouble. That was 2 points lost, as was Sunderland - if we are not going to get shock results at the big 6, then we cannot afford to drop points in those home games.

We are now under big pressure at home to Swansea who will be looking at this game as one of the more likely places to take points and will cause us problems.

Biggest issue is complete lack of goals currently in this team - one goal we've scored from open play via a keeper howler from 4 games - and not exactly against the best defenses either. I'm not hugely bothered about our defence - although we do look more suseptable to conceding from set pieces, fact is half of the goals conceded are from erroneous or silly penalties.

[kermitsaint]

Don't know what the debate is about. It wasn't a pen and no one in a position where there opinions matter think it was either. Even Howard Web with replays said it wasn't a pen.

Interesting you say that as the one person who is in a position to judge was the ref who gave it . No one elses opinion matters . Not even Howard Webb

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[corky morris]

Same ref who didn't give the Ivanovic pull on Virgil at Chelsea last season. Again against Liverpool in Fizzy pop last year...............

Totally inconsistent & biased.

 

http://www.101greatgoals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-03-at-7.53.17-PM.png

[East Kent Saint]

The penalty could have gone either way , if it was in the first few minutes it would probably not been given !

For their first goal if Classie was 6" taller he would probably blocked it ! (IMHO etc).

[dellboysaint]

I'd be interested to know what posters would have felt if the Saints had conceded the second goal in the 70th minute. Think the discussions would be somewhat different. Having said that, since when has the rule change about head injuries? Thought the game MUST be stopped as soon as a head injury occurs, especially in the goalmouth area. What was the idiot ref thinking about? Let alone awarding a debatable penalty. Lets face it, teams like Arsenal will always contrive a result, with or without the help of the officials. They are a "big-name" team and will always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Some positives though. Thought the Saints looked cohesive and constructive for a lot of the match. Big negative is lack of firepower. The Saints have missed the boat in not signing a recognised striker, whilst selling two others. Think it will come back to haunt!

 

Long was only good last year because he was feeding off Pelle and Mane. Give him the responsibility of leading the line and he is not so clever. We should have kept Sam Gallagher - Poch gave him some games and he did well but not buying a striker could condemn us this year.

[derry]

It was nice to see Rodriguez playing his best to date. Another step on the way back. Linesman and referee were abysmal regarding Long's taking out by Monreal. Referee under no circumstances should have left Koscelney lying in front of the goal with a head injury.

 

Puel is the problem. Forget the diamond, winger Redmond is an incompetent and ineffective striker, a clever player on the ball he doesn't have a clue where to run as a striker. He won't score the goals we need from a striker so we are undermanned up front. Best centre forward Long who is a poor finisher, best finisher Austin, Next best alternative at this time Rodriguez. If Puel continues to play Redmond up front he will erode his confidence whilst making it difficult for us to score.

 

Puel looks like he is banking everything on Redmond and the diamond. It certainly isn't a formation that suits the type of player we have to play the centre midfield, the tip of the diamond and up front. Boufal may be the answer but I understand he only played as the ten 6 times last season, the rest of the time as a winger. For a start he could play Austin and Long up front with Rodriguez in support and Tadic and Hojbjerg in midfield with Romeu. May not work but looks stronger up front and more creative in midfield IMHO.

 

I can't see how he could play Redmond anywhere in this formation other than as a ten or a striker. To play him in his normal position entails ditching the diamond.

Edited 11 September, 2016 by derry

[pangy]

Forget the awful penalty decision, Long should of scored those 2 sitters, the game would of been out of sight by then. We all know he is a 1 in 10 striker failing to buy a proven striker may well cost us.

But signs were encouraging yesterday, it does seem strange that have gone backwards from last season, the board took a massive gamble on a manager full week knowing he would change the system and formation that had been so successful for a few seasons, we just have to have faith it will come good, because if it doesn't I hope either the manager or board take action before it's too late

[dellboysaint]

Giving Sam Gallagher away was crazy - he may have scored one of Long's chances and there may have been no stopping him after that! Short sighted decision - youth has no fear and he may have stepped up yesterday!