Balanced reflections on the transfer window - no arguments allowed!

[baggytrousers]

I am absolutely certain we would be more positive as a group if we had 4 or 5 points more than we currently have; as that would have meant winning our home matches and possibly drawing away to Utd. Had we only won one of those home matches and drawn the other then many would also probably be feeling more positive. The problem is that we failed to score more than one goal against 2 very poor sides, whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet and looking fragile at the back.

 

I gave my overall thoughts of the window previously in this thread. Now, I would like to give my thoughts on each individual signing, who they effectively replaced and how I feel that will impact us this season. Primarily, I will compare how we stand right now, at the beginning of this season, with how we finished the last one. Additionally, I will make some comparisons of players over recent previous seasons.

 

McCarthy vice Stekelenburg

 

McCarthy - last season he made 7 appearances for Palace, failing to keep a clean sheet in any. The season before he that made 5 appearances (4 for QPR, 1 for Reading) whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet.

 

Stekelenburg - last season kept 9 clean sheets in his 25 appearances for us.

 

Yes, McCarthy is some 7 years younger than Stek, so will be playing for longer. However, he can only dream of having a career anything like the Dutchman who, at only 1 year older than McCarthy is now played in a World Cup Final. In a couple of years time I will probably be happier to have McCarthy than Stek. But, right now, for this season, I feel that Stek is the better 'keeper. Therefore, minus one transfer point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Taylor vice Kelvin and Gazzanigga

 

Taylor - To be honest, I am still trying to work out why we have bothered signing Taylor. Surely there must have been a better option out there? Yes, he is an experienced 'keeper; if you consider being 35 and spending almost your entire career sat on bench (at best) being experienced. He was without a club for the entirety of last season and has only made 10 first team appearances in the past 6 years! Of those only one was a clean sheet, for Leeds Vs Rotherham.

 

Kelvin/Gazza - Kelvin obviously felt, at 39, it was time to hang his gloves up. However, in recent years, he made far more fist team appearances than Taylor, and at a higher level. I also understand the need for Gazza to get first team experience and the need for him to go out on loan to achieve this.

 

However, all in all, when comparing Taylor's abilities to the other two I feel we are weaker in the 3rd choice 'keeper option. Therefore, another minus point.

 

Running Total -2

 

Pied vice Martina

 

Yes, I know Martina is still here but this was obviously the plan. The only thing that stopped Pied being Martina's replacement was his unfortunate, but probably timely, injury (it would be worse if he had picked the injury up today, for example, as I am sure Martina would now be an Everton player).

 

I was sat in the Kingsland for the Bilbao and Watford matches so got a good view of Pied during those matches. To be honest, I liked what I saw. I thought he was going to be very useful for us this season but, alas, that is not to be. As we are where we were, no positive or negative transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Hojbjerg vice Wanyama

 

Actually, this a difficult one to call as they are such different players despite both being defensive midfielders. Pierre is undoubtedly going to be the far better footballer of the two. I really like what I have seen of him thus far. Such potential. However, he does not (yet) give the defense anywhere near the amount of cover Victor did/does. Yes, I know Victor got sent off three times last season, but he still only played 3 games less (over the course of the season) than Pierre. And, as bad as his record is, Victor also seems to offer more of a goal scoring threat than Pierre - but I am sure this will change in the next season or two.

 

As we stand right now, I really think we are missing Victor's presence in midfield. Hojbjerg has not replaced that. What Hojbjerg has done is given us more strength than JWP or Classie in midfield. All in all I will call this one a draw, thus no plus or minus transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Redmond vice Juanmi/Ramirez

 

Another case of one player replacing two, as (despite their limited game time) we did have both Juanmi and Ramirez on our books last season and even paid a third of the latter's wages whilst he was playing for 'boro.

 

I like Nathan and believe he does also have a lot of potential I really hope he can be transformed into a striker but not sure that 6 goals in 37 last season (4 of which were scored by mid-October) and 7 in the 50 the previous one indicate that he can. To be fair though, he is already off the mark this season, but then he scored in both Norwich's first 2 matches last season.

 

I was also one of the few on here who liked Gaston and thought he was never really given a full opportunity to show his abilities with us. I honestly think he would be good in the number 10 position for us in our current system. He did score 7 in 18 for Middlesboro last season, albeit in the championship. And, I wonder, would Nathan be a full Uruguayan international if he were of that nationality? Of course, Juanmi lacked the physicality for the prem, or maybe just couldn't settle.

 

Weighing up all of the above I am, for some reason I can't really put my finger on, going to give this one positive point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Boufal vice Mane

 

Again, very hard to compare seeing as we have yet to see Boufal in a Saints shirt. However, we certainly know what Mane was (and is) capable of - 25 goals in his 75 Saints appearances = 1 in 3. Boufal is going to have to go some to top or equal that, which he was not far off for Lille, scoring 15 in 50.

 

Once more the key word with Boufal is potential. Hopefully he will give us the same unpredictability and threat that Mane did. As for Sadio, I really think we should have got more for him than we did. Liverpool have looked far more threatening when he has played this season. Obviously, it will still be a few weeks until we see anything of Sofiane; whereas Sadio is up and running. Therefore, I am going to give this one a minus point. I certainly hope that Boufal goes on to show I was wrong in doing so. Bu I honestly think we would have those extra points in the bag had Mane played for us against Watford and Sunderland.

 

Running Total -2

 

Austin vice Pelle

 

I really hate having to put this one here as we had both on our books for the latter part of last season, and we should be comparing to how we were at the end of last season. However, as it is generally accepted that Austin was bought to be Pelle's replacement.......

 

Over the past 2 seasons Austin scored 29 in 59 whilst Pelle bagged 30 in 79. Of course, 10 of Charlie's goals came in the Championship, whereas Pelles were in the prem or at international level. Which is another point, is there any one on here who honestly believes Austin would have be leading the Italian front line if their nationalities were reversed? I certainly don't. Which one of the reasons why I am going to give to give this another minus point, although perhaps that is a bit harsh and the players are more equal in talent. The other reason why I believe it is a minus is that we are a striker light within the squad (as I said previously, we had both of them at the end of the season).

 

Running Total -3

 

So, overall, I believe we are 3 players worse off - in terms of their current abilities and effectiveness to the squad - than we were at the end of last season. As has been said before, by myself and others, I feel that this really equates to huge missed opportunity given our 6th placed finish and participation in Europe this season.

 

We do, however, now have three players of great potential. If they all come good they will really be useful for us next season. I just hope they will all be here then, along with Frazer, VvD, Bertrand, etc.

 

Title of the thread is 'Balanced reflections on the transfer window'

 

You want the 'Biased reflections on the transfer window' thread.

[Minsk]

Why do you use "vice" instead of versus?

 

 

Vice - 'as a substitute/replacement for' - hence why I compared the new signings to the player(s) they replaced; as opposed to versus - 'against or in opposition to'

 

phew .... and I thought Puel's interviews were boring !!

 

Aww, poor poppet. Weren't there any pictures for yo to look at? I'm sorry. It's because my post was aimed at the grown-ups, who are able to read and comprehend information. Not for 'Trolls', 'WUMs', 'Skates' or school-kids who just dig at other people without ever adding anything constructive in this forum. Given that you joined here early/mid July and in that time have clocked up over 100 posts managing to call other posters boring, idiots, morons, grumpy and even the one c#nt, I'm assuming you are the latter.

 

Title of the thread is 'Balanced reflections on the transfer window'

 

You want the 'Biased reflections on the transfer window' thread.

 

Please feel free to state what you disagree with and why. At least I bothered to explain the reasons for my thoughts. Do you think we had a good or great window? If so, why? All I have seen from you on this thread thus far is that a Norwich supporter thinks Redmond should be playing for them in the Championship and you think he is (or will be this season) a better striker than Berahino and Bony.

[SonicBoom]

Seems a decent and thought through post whether you agree or not.

 

My opinion would be that as a rule we are always going to lose an established player and replace them with someone "with potential". If we were going to replace like for like then we would be paying the same 35 million as we got for Mane, and would those players come to us? Not sure.

It's very difficult to compare the new player with the old as they tend to be at different stages of their career.

 

We won't get every one right either, but in the last few years we got enough right to make progress.

Finally I'm really keen to see Boufal. He appears to be one of the most exciting signings we have made for years and I really hope the lad can develop well with us.

[baggytrousers]

Vice - 'as a substitute/replacement for' - hence why I compared the new signings to the player(s) they replaced; as opposed to versus - 'against or in opposition to'

 

 

 

Aww, poor poppet. Weren't there any pictures for yo to look at? I'm sorry. It's because my post was aimed at the grown-ups, who are able to read and comprehend information. Not for 'Trolls', 'WUMs', 'Skates' or school-kids who just dig at other people without ever adding anything constructive in this forum. Given that you joined here early/mid July and in that time have clocked up over 100 posts managing to call other posters boring, idiots, morons, grumpy and even the one c#nt, I'm assuming you are the latter.

 

 

 

Please feel free to state what you disagree with and why. At least I bothered to explain the reasons for my thoughts. Do you think we had a good or great window? If so, why? All I have seen from you on this thread thus far is that a Norwich supporter thinks Redmond should be playing for them in the Championship and you think he is (or will be this season) a better striker than Berahino and Bony.

 

Players with potential at the start of last season :

 

Riyad Mahrez

Dele Ali

N'Golo Kante

Marcus Rashford

Jamie Vardy

Danny Drinkwater

Dmitri Payet

 

whilst established premiership talents like Ivanovic, Fabregas, Bony, Hazard, even Schneiderlin floundered.

 

You mark down our incomings because they are only potential but get two of your -3 total from the moving on of a 39 year old third choice keeper and a 31 year old striker who had lost his place in the first team.

 

Football is continually renewing itself and the identifying and promoting of young talent is exactly what you need to do if you do not want to go backwards as your leading lights fade. Were we wrong to let Rickie Lambert leave when he did ? You count losing players at the end of their career as negatives but players that we have coming through at the start of their career don't even make your radar as possible positives.

 

I accept that losing Mane and Wanyama were blows but they were determined to go and we have replaced them with a 20 year old who Guardiola described as "the new Busquets" and an attacking midfielder who is probably the most exciting talent we have signed in many a long year.

 

Plus we have signed Redmond who is so far ahead of non-playing Juanmi and non-playing Ramirez that there's really no comparison. I take it your begrudging award of a slight, dubious positive in your comparison here was you trying to make it appear that you were being genuinely balanced in your viewpoint. For me there's absolutely no debate in this one. Crystal clear upgrade. Also, I believe you have misrepresented my previous post about him. The point I was making is that he scored more goals last season from midfield for a relegated side than two players who people on here were calling for us to sign at great cost who played for mid-table or Champions league sides as strikers, not midfielders. More assists as well.

 

Personally, I'm really positive about our three major signings this summer. Been a really good transfer window and I'm liking the direction the club are heading.

 

Don't expect you to agree but would like it if you put your misgivings behind you and gave these incomings and our new manager a fair chance to prove themselves.

 

You might be pleasantly surprised.

[New Forest Steve]

Aww, poor poppet. Weren't there any pictures for yo to look at? I'm sorry. It's because my post was aimed at the grown-ups, who are able to read and comprehend information. Not for 'Trolls', 'WUMs', 'Skates' or school-kids who just dig at other people without ever adding anything constructive in this forum. Given that you joined here early/mid July and in that time have clocked up over 100 posts managing to call other posters boring, idiots, morons, grumpy and even the one c#nt, I'm assuming you are the latter.

Ok I'll elaborate. My initial 'boring' comment was regards the sheer length of the post. I acknowledge that my remark was perhaps a bit flippant, considering your efforts and for this my apologies.

 

As to the content, it just seems full of odd comparisons and stats manipulated to fit an agenda, namely to achieve a negative rating in your scoring system.

 

An example for you. When comparing McCarthy and Stekelenberg, you give stats for McCarthy's season prior to joining us. So surely a balanced comparison would be Stekelenberg's record prior to joining us, which would paint a completely different picture to yours.

 

McCarthy vice Stekelenburg

 

McCarthy - prior to joining Saints he made 7 appearances for Palace, failing to keep a clean sheet in any. The season before he that made 5 appearances (4 for QPR, 1 for Reading) whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet.

 

Stekelenberg - prior to joining Saints made 8 appearances for Monaco, only 1 in La Ligue. The season before that he played 21 times before being dropped from a Fulham side that got relegated having conceded 85 goals that season

 

McCarthy's 7 years younger, a current international and has signed a permanent contract as opposed to a loan .... +1 point

 

So obviously McCarthy's a better signing than Stekelenberg was last year....... see what I've done ? There's lots more I could pick at from your post but I don't have the time. Baggy's covered a lot of it tho'.

Edited 5 September, 2016 by New Forest Steve
grammer

[doddisalegend]

Not directly related to saints but saw this piece on over priced players in the latest transfer window and thought it was interesting.

 

Everton overpaid Crystal Palace for Yannick Bolasie by £19m, CIES study claims

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/everton-overpaid-crystal-palace-for-yannick-bolasie-by-%C2%A319m-cies-study-claims/ar-AAiwfYp?li=AA572I&ocid=spartandhp

[Super_Uwe]

I can't honestly say that I feel we have done badly in this transfer window. All of the players who have left were expected to do so, and the club has backed the manager and ensured that we have brought in good quality replacements. Even with the manager himself, I can completely understand why we appointed him in the first place as his European experience will be really handy this year (hopefully). I think it is unfortunate that his interviews come across in such a bland way, otherwise I believe people would be cutting him a hell of a lot more slack right now (results aside even).

[Minsk]

Seems a decent and thought through post whether you agree or not.

 

My opinion would be that as a rule we are always going to lose an established player and replace them with someone "with potential". If we were going to replace like for like then we would be paying the same 35 million as we got for Mane, and would those players come to us? Not sure.

It's very difficult to compare the new player with the old as they tend to be at different stages of their career.

 

We won't get every one right either, but in the last few years we got enough right to make progress.

Finally I'm really keen to see Boufal. He appears to be one of the most exciting signings we have made for years and I really hope the lad can develop well with us.

 

Thanks for a nice, reasoned, post SB. You are correct that we are never going to be in the market for someone of Mane's abilities as they are now. Although, it is a shame that he decided to leave us for Liverpool at this exact time when we have qualified for Europe whilst they have not. Again, I agree that no club can ever get all transfers right; and I am also looking forward to seeing what Boufal will bring to the team.

 

You are also quite correct in that it probably isn't exactly right to compare new and old players who are at different stages in their careers. But then, how else are we to judge if he have had a good or not other than by whether the squad, as a whole, is stronger or weaker? And how can we conclude that without looking at what we had, and now have, at our disposal? That was all I was trying to do with my post above.

 

Moving on, thanks to the two guys below for taking the time and effort to also make more thought provoking posts than their previous ones. This place is so much better when posters engage in decent debate, no matter how different their opinions are, than when there is just petty name calling and digs. After all we are (allegedly - no dig at either of you intended) all Saints fans.

 

I will now respond to each of your posts below.

 

Players with potential at the start of last season :

 

Riyad Mahrez

Dele Ali

N'Golo Kante

Marcus Rashford

Jamie Vardy

Danny Drinkwater

Dmitri Payet

 

whilst established premiership talents like Ivanovic, Fabregas, Bony, Hazard, even Schneiderlin floundered.

 

You mark down our incomings because they are only potential but get two of your -3 total from the moving on of a 39 year old third choice keeper and a 31 year old striker who had lost his place in the first team.

 

Plus we have signed Redmond who is so far ahead of non-playing Juanmi and non-playing Ramirez that there's really no comparison. I take it your begrudging award of a slight, dubious positive in your comparison here was you trying to make it appear that you were being genuinely balanced in your viewpoint. For me there's absolutely no debate in this one. Crystal clear upgrade. Also, I believe you have misrepresented my previous post about him. The point I was making is that he scored more goals last season from midfield for a relegated side than two players who people on here were calling for us to sign at great cost who played for mid-table or Champions league sides as strikers, not midfielders. More assists as well.

 

Personally, I'm really positive about our three major signings this summer. Been a really good transfer window and I'm liking the direction the club are heading.

 

Nicely selected players with potential at the beginning of the post and, likewise, with those who didn't live up to expectations compared with the previous season. (Although I think the addition of players such as Vardy and Drinkwater who are older and already had a full season in the prem is pushing it a bit.) That is easy to do with hindsight. Juanmi was also highly rated as a player with great potential this time last year. Yes, it is possible that all our new, young, players with potential will be amazing this season, whilst the of Mane and Wanyama will be duds - possible, we will see.

 

One of my minus points did not come from Kelvin retiring. It was more to do with the fact that I do not see Stuart Taylor as an upgrade on Gazzaniga. I do, however, accept that Gazza needed to go out for first team experience, but I do feel that has left us weaker as a whole. Hopefully we will not need to find out either way.

 

Yes, another minus point was because Pelle was replaced with Austin - who I do not think is as good. Do you think Austin would be leading Italy's front line if he were Italian? Plus, as I also mentioned, at the end of last season both of them were on books now only Charlie is. Therefore, we have to be weaker as a squad. Do you not agree?

 

I am actually excited by the three young players - Redmond, Hojbjerg and Boufal - we brought in, I just hoped we might also sign one more; preferably a player of known quality. I do get your point that Redmond (6) scored more than Bony (4) - they both had 4 assists - but Redmond spent almost twice as long on the pitch as Bony did, with the latter almost always being used as a sub. I wasn't actually calling for us to sign Bony, but I really do think it would have been beneficial for us to sign someone like him, who was fully fit and raring to go from the season's start.

 

I also get what you say in reference to the squad having to grow, move out older players and bring in younger ones. Of course that needs to happen. The probably think they have that right in Romeu, having been here one year already, stepping into Wanyama's shoes and Hojbjerg to play alongside him. Hopefully, that will prove to be the case very soon. What is more concerning is moving on the top two scorers without adequately replacing them (in my opinion). Again, hopefully Charlie, Shane and JRod will go and prove my concerns unfounded by bagging at least a dozen each in the league this season.

 

If you check back through my posting history (beyond this summer) you will find that I am usually one of the happy clappers on here. I am just not that impressed at this juncture. Still, hopefully you are right and I will be pleasantly surprised. I shall still get to as many matches as possible, and will watch all others on-line, and will be cheering my heart out for all our players every match. Of that I can assure you.

 

 

 

Ok I'll elaborate. My initial 'boring' comment was regards the sheer length of the post. I acknowledge that my remark was perhaps a bit flippant, considering your efforts and for this my apologies.

 

As to the content, it just seems full of odd comparisons and stats manipulated to fit an agenda, namely to achieve a negative rating in your scoring system.

 

An example for you. When comparing McCarthy and Stekelenberg, you give stats for McCarthy's season prior to joining us. So surely a balanced comparison would be Stekelenberg's record prior to joining us, which would paint a completely different picture to yours.

 

McCarthy vice Stekelenburg

 

McCarthy - prior to joining Saints he made 7 appearances for Palace, failing to keep a clean sheet in any. The season before he that made 5 appearances (4 for QPR, 1 for Reading) whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet.

 

Stekelenberg - prior to joining Saints made 8 appearances for Monaco, only 1 in La Ligue. The season before that he played 21 times before being dropped from a Fulham side that got relegated having conceded 85 goals that season

 

McCarthy's 7 years younger, a current international and has signed a permanent contract as opposed to a loan .... +1 point

 

So obviously McCarthy's a better signing than Stekelenberg was last year....... see what I've done ? There's lots more I could pick at from your post but I don't have the time. Baggy's covered a lot of it tho'.

 

Apology accepted.

 

In my original I compared each player as they are today based on the most recent data available, their stats for last season (or last couple of seasons). I certainly did not manipulate any of those stats. If you really think I did, please feel free to point out where. I think it would be absolutely wrong to use one player's stats from last season and another's from 2, 3 or 4 seasons ago. That would prove nothing. Or maybe you think I should have compared what Hojbjerg did last season to that which Victor achieved during his last season at Celtic - where he scored 9 goals including a screamer against Barcelona? Or perhaps I should have compared McCarthy with Stekelenburg when he was at the same age? I think not. Comparing one player at current level of ability to another of years gone past in skewing the stats; not current with current.

 

Also, calling McCarthy a current international is stretching it a bit. How many full caps does he have? When did he win his last one?

 

At the end of the day, as I have mentioned previously and given reasons for, I honestly believe our squad is significantly weaker now than it was in May. You obviously do not. Perhaps you can give a reasoned argument for this?

 

Last season we finished 6th and qualified for Europe. On another thread the general consensus of Saints fans is that this season we will finish somewhere between 10th-15th. So it appears I am not alone in thinking we are weaker or, at the very least, weaker in comparison to our rivals this season (which amounts to the same thing).

 

To be honest, I just wish we had signed at least one other attacking midfielder/striker (one who was fit at the start of the start of the season, having had a decent pre-season) and an additional tough tackling, ball winning, defensive midfielder.

 

I honestly hope you are proved to be right and I am wrong in this instance.

 

(P.S. Sorry if this reply bored you. )

[New Forest Steve]

Thanks for a nice, reasoned, post SB. You are correct that we are never going to be in the market for someone of Mane's abilities as they are now. Although, it is a shame that he decided to leave us for Liverpool at this exact time when we have qualified for Europe whilst they have not. Again, I agree that no club can ever get all transfers right; and I am also looking forward to seeing what Boufal will bring to the team.

 

You are also quite correct in that it probably isn't exactly right to compare new and old players who are at different stages in their careers. But then, how else are we to judge if he have had a good or not other than by whether the squad, as a whole, is stronger or weaker? And how can we conclude that without looking at what we had, and now have, at our disposal? That was all I was trying to do with my post above.

 

Moving on, thanks to the two guys below for taking the time and effort to also make more thought provoking posts than their previous ones. This place is so much better when posters engage in decent debate, no matter how different their opinions are, than when there is just petty name calling and digs. After all we are (allegedly - no dig at either of you intended) all Saints fans.

 

I will now respond to each of your posts below.

 

 

 

Nicely selected players with potential at the beginning of the post and, likewise, with those who didn't live up to expectations compared with the previous season. (Although I think the addition of players such as Vardy and Drinkwater who are older and already had a full season in the prem is pushing it a bit.) That is easy to do with hindsight. Juanmi was also highly rated as a player with great potential this time last year. Yes, it is possible that all our new, young, players with potential will be amazing this season, whilst the of Mane and Wanyama will be duds - possible, we will see.

 

One of my minus points did not come from Kelvin retiring. It was more to do with the fact that I do not see Stuart Taylor as an upgrade on Gazzaniga. I do, however, accept that Gazza needed to go out for first team experience, but I do feel that has left us weaker as a whole. Hopefully we will not need to find out either way.

 

Yes, another minus point was because Pelle was replaced with Austin - who I do not think is as good. Do you think Austin would be leading Italy's front line if he were Italian? Plus, as I also mentioned, at the end of last season both of them were on books now only Charlie is. Therefore, we have to be weaker as a squad. Do you not agree?

 

I am actually excited by the three young players - Redmond, Hojbjerg and Boufal - we brought in, I just hoped we might also sign one more; preferably a player of known quality. I do get your point that Redmond (6) scored more than Bony (4) - they both had 4 assists - but Redmond spent almost twice as long on the pitch as Bony did, with the latter almost always being used as a sub. I wasn't actually calling for us to sign Bony, but I really do think it would have been beneficial for us to sign someone like him, who was fully fit and raring to go from the season's start.

 

I also get what you say in reference to the squad having to grow, move out older players and bring in younger ones. Of course that needs to happen. The probably think they have that right in Romeu, having been here one year already, stepping into Wanyama's shoes and Hojbjerg to play alongside him. Hopefully, that will prove to be the case very soon. What is more concerning is moving on the top two scorers without adequately replacing them (in my opinion). Again, hopefully Charlie, Shane and JRod will go and prove my concerns unfounded by bagging at least a dozen each in the league this season.

 

If you check back through my posting history (beyond this summer) you will find that I am usually one of the happy clappers on here. I am just not that impressed at this juncture. Still, hopefully you are right and I will be pleasantly surprised. I shall still get to as many matches as possible, and will watch all others on-line, and will be cheering my heart out for all our players every match. Of that I can assure you.

 

 

 

 

 

Apology accepted.

 

In my original I compared each player as they are today based on the most recent data available, their stats for last season (or last couple of seasons). I certainly did not manipulate any of those stats. If you really think I did, please feel free to point out where. I think it would be absolutely wrong to use one player's stats from last season and another's from 2, 3 or 4 seasons ago. That would prove nothing. Or maybe you think I should have compared what Hojbjerg did last season to that which Victor achieved during his last season at Celtic - where he scored 9 goals including a screamer against Barcelona? Or perhaps I should have compared McCarthy with Stekelenburg when he was at the same age? I think not. Comparing one player at current level of ability to another of years gone past in skewing the stats; not current with current.

 

Also, calling McCarthy a current international is stretching it a bit. How many full caps does he have? When did he win his last one?

 

At the end of the day, as I have mentioned previously and given reasons for, I honestly believe our squad is significantly weaker now than it was in May. You obviously do not. Perhaps you can give a reasoned argument for this?

 

Last season we finished 6th and qualified for Europe. On another thread the general consensus of Saints fans is that this season we will finish somewhere between 10th-15th. So it appears I am not alone in thinking we are weaker or, at the very least, weaker in comparison to our rivals this season (which amounts to the same thing).

 

To be honest, I just wish we had signed at least one other attacking midfielder/striker (one who was fit at the start of the start of the season, having had a decent pre-season) and an additional tough tackling, ball winning, defensive midfielder.

 

I honestly hope you are proved to be right and I am wrong in this instance.

 

(P.S. Sorry if this reply bored you. )

 

No you're ok, I'm still awake

 

I do understand that you're anxious for the coming season and to be honest with you, the summer transfer merry go round does my head in aswell .... and I am, by nature, generally pretty calm.

 

I don't share your worries about our squad this season, I think we've done some very smart business and I've got a feeling that yet again, we're going to surprise a lot of people. I know you don't agree but that's fine.

 

The thing is, you can do all the comparisons and analysis between last season/this season squads but there's no way to draw any conclusion from it because we haven't seen enough of the current squad to judge. We're just going to have to wait and see. There's no point in worrying about something that might or might not happen, just enjoy where we're at .... we're playing Inter Milan, who could of imagined that, 6 years ago.

 

In reply to a couple of other points you raised :

 

1) McCarthy has one full cap for England as of last sunday

2) Been 100% Saints since first seeing them as a youngster in 1968. I am therefore, neither skate nor school-kid.

[Minsk]

No you're ok, I'm still awake

 

I do understand that you're anxious for the coming season and to be honest with you, the summer transfer merry go round does my head in aswell .... and I am, by nature, generally pretty calm.

 

I don't share your worries about our squad this season, I think we've done some very smart business and I've got a feeling that yet again, we're going to surprise a lot of people. I know you don't agree but that's fine.

 

The thing is, you can do all the comparisons and analysis between last season/this season squads but there's no way to draw any conclusion from it because we haven't seen enough of the current squad to judge. We're just going to have to wait and see. There's no point in worrying about something that might or might not happen, just enjoy where we're at .... we're playing Inter Milan, who could of imagined that, 6 years ago.

 

In reply to a couple of other points you raised :

 

1) McCarthy has one full cap for England as of last sunday

2) Been 100% Saints since first seeing them as a youngster in 1968. I am therefore, neither skate nor school-kid.

 

I'm usually Mr optimistic and pretty cool headed too. I guess we can all have an off day, or close season. As I said, I sincerely hope you're right about how this season will transpire.

 

And, a couple of points back:

 

1) I'm pretty sure players only get a cap if they actually play, not if they are just an unused sub

2) I never thought you were either of those, but at the accusation had the desired effect of a decent reply and amicable dialogue

 

Enjoy the season!

[New Forest Steve]

I'm usually Mr optimistic and pretty cool headed too. I guess we can all have an off day, or close season. As I said, I sincerely hope you're right about how this season will transpire.

 

And, a couple of points back:

 

1) I'm pretty sure players only get a cap if they actually play, not if they are just an unused sub

2) I never thought you were either of those, but at the accusation had the desired effect of a decent reply and amicable dialogue

 

Enjoy the season!

 

1) hmmm, not sure

2) point taken

 

Will do ................ hopefully

[New Forest Steve]

I'm usually Mr optimistic and pretty cool headed too. I guess we can all have an off day, or close season. As I said, I sincerely hope you're right about how this season will transpire.

 

The more success, the higher the expectation, Minsk ..... it's human nature mate !!

Edited 6 September, 2016 by New Forest Steve

[Pierre]

If you finish above clubs with far greater budgets, you:

- have done well

- will lose players at the end of the season

We all knew we'd be losing Mane and Victor at the end of the season, regardless of what happened. Obviously we can't replace them with the same proven quality, as they're out of our price/wage bracket, but we can replace them with potentially equal or better players. The one which was disappointing to lose was Koeman, specially to Everton who shouldn't be able to out bid us.

I think in our case remaining in the top 10 for a couple of years is progress. We're not going to finish top 6 every year.

We could have invested in more depth, vertainly keeping Europe in mind, but this would have also blocked any vhances for a youth which will quickly lose it's outstanding reputation if we don't give youngsters a chance.

Personally I think our signings look pretty promising, but I also have the obvious concerns:

- what happens if VVD or Jose get a long term injury/suspention?

- will Jay Rod or Austin ever get match fit?

- with the Pied injury right back remains a problem?

- can we find a midfield combo that clicks?

But i'm pretty optimitic. Give Claude some time and we will start getting results.

Suprise players of the season: isgrove and Clasie

[Wade Garrett]

If you finish above clubs with far greater budgets, you:

- have done well

- will lose players at the end of the season

We all knew we'd be losing Mane and Victor at the end of the season, regardless of what happened. Obviously we can't replace them with the same proven quality, as they're out of our price/wage bracket, but we can replace them with potentially equal or better players. The one which was disappointing to lose was Koeman, specially to Everton who shouldn't be able to out bid us.

I think in our case remaining in the top 10 for a couple of years is progress. We're not going to finish top 6 every year.

We could have invested in more depth, vertainly keeping Europe in mind, but this would have also blocked any vhances for a youth which will quickly lose it's outstanding reputation if we don't give youngsters a chance.

Personally I think our signings look pretty promising, but I also have the obvious concerns:

- what happens if VVD or Jose get a long term injury/suspention?

- will Jay Rod or Austin ever get match fit?

- with the Pied injury right back remains a problem?

- can we find a midfield combo that clicks?

But i'm pretty optimitic. Give Claude some time and we will start getting results.

Suprise players of the season: isgrove and Clasie

 

Payet still at West Ham is he?

[ally_uk]

Why the over analyzing and number crunching? We are weaker than last season it is not rocket science... With more games to play aswell. Tactics wise we have looked clueless and will either adapt eventually or will fade fast and Claude will be out the door.

 

Saints and the youth teams are used to playing a sepcific way and this clown comes in and throws it out the window.... Doesnt make any sense...

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Why the over analyzing and number crunching? We are weaker than last season it is not rocket science... With more games to play aswell. Tactics wise we have looked clueless and will either adapt eventually or will fade fast and Claude will be out the door.

 

Saints and the youth teams are used to playing a sepcific way and this clown comes in and throws it out the window.... Doesnt make any sense...

 

Yeah....

[ashnats]

I am absolutely certain we would be more positive as a group if we had 4 or 5 points more than we currently have; as that would have meant winning our home matches and possibly drawing away to Utd. Had we only won one of those home matches and drawn the other then many would also probably be feeling more positive. The problem is that we failed to score more than one goal against 2 very poor sides, whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet and looking fragile at the back.

 

I gave my overall thoughts of the window previously in this thread. Now, I would like to give my thoughts on each individual signing, who they effectively replaced and how I feel that will impact us this season. Primarily, I will compare how we stand right now, at the beginning of this season, with how we finished the last one. Additionally, I will make some comparisons of players over recent previous seasons.

 

McCarthy vice Stekelenburg

 

McCarthy - last season he made 7 appearances for Palace, failing to keep a clean sheet in any. The season before he that made 5 appearances (4 for QPR, 1 for Reading) whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet.

 

Stekelenburg - last season kept 9 clean sheets in his 25 appearances for us.

 

Yes, McCarthy is some 7 years younger than Stek, so will be playing for longer. However, he can only dream of having a career anything like the Dutchman who, at only 1 year older than McCarthy is now played in a World Cup Final. In a couple of years time I will probably be happier to have McCarthy than Stek. But, right now, for this season, I feel that Stek is the better 'keeper. Therefore, minus one transfer point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Taylor vice Kelvin and Gazzanigga

 

Taylor - To be honest, I am still trying to work out why we have bothered signing Taylor. Surely there must have been a better option out there? Yes, he is an experienced 'keeper; if you consider being 35 and spending almost your entire career sat on bench (at best) being experienced. He was without a club for the entirety of last season and has only made 10 first team appearances in the past 6 years! Of those only one was a clean sheet, for Leeds Vs Rotherham.

 

Kelvin/Gazza - Kelvin obviously felt, at 39, it was time to hang his gloves up. However, in recent years, he made far more fist team appearances than Taylor, and at a higher level. I also understand the need for Gazza to get first team experience and the need for him to go out on loan to achieve this.

 

However, all in all, when comparing Taylor's abilities to the other two I feel we are weaker in the 3rd choice 'keeper option. Therefore, another minus point.

 

Running Total -2

 

Pied vice Martina

 

Yes, I know Martina is still here but this was obviously the plan. The only thing that stopped Pied being Martina's replacement was his unfortunate, but probably timely, injury (it would be worse if he had picked the injury up today, for example, as I am sure Martina would now be an Everton player).

 

I was sat in the Kingsland for the Bilbao and Watford matches so got a good view of Pied during those matches. To be honest, I liked what I saw. I thought he was going to be very useful for us this season but, alas, that is not to be. As we are where we were, no positive or negative transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Hojbjerg vice Wanyama

 

Actually, this a difficult one to call as they are such different players despite both being defensive midfielders. Pierre is undoubtedly going to be the far better footballer of the two. I really like what I have seen of him thus far. Such potential. However, he does not (yet) give the defense anywhere near the amount of cover Victor did/does. Yes, I know Victor got sent off three times last season, but he still only played 3 games less (over the course of the season) than Pierre. And, as bad as his record is, Victor also seems to offer more of a goal scoring threat than Pierre - but I am sure this will change in the next season or two.

 

As we stand right now, I really think we are missing Victor's presence in midfield. Hojbjerg has not replaced that. What Hojbjerg has done is given us more strength than JWP or Classie in midfield. All in all I will call this one a draw, thus no plus or minus transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Redmond vice Juanmi/Ramirez

 

Another case of one player replacing two, as (despite their limited game time) we did have both Juanmi and Ramirez on our books last season and even paid a third of the latter's wages whilst he was playing for 'boro.

 

I like Nathan and believe he does also have a lot of potential I really hope he can be transformed into a striker but not sure that 6 goals in 37 last season (4 of which were scored by mid-October) and 7 in the 50 the previous one indicate that he can. To be fair though, he is already off the mark this season, but then he scored in both Norwich's first 2 matches last season.

 

I was also one of the few on here who liked Gaston and thought he was never really given a full opportunity to show his abilities with us. I honestly think he would be good in the number 10 position for us in our current system. He did score 7 in 18 for Middlesboro last season, albeit in the championship. And, I wonder, would Nathan be a full Uruguayan international if he were of that nationality? Of course, Juanmi lacked the physicality for the prem, or maybe just couldn't settle.

 

Weighing up all of the above I am, for some reason I can't really put my finger on, going to give this one positive point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Boufal vice Mane

 

Again, very hard to compare seeing as we have yet to see Boufal in a Saints shirt. However, we certainly know what Mane was (and is) capable of - 25 goals in his 75 Saints appearances = 1 in 3. Boufal is going to have to go some to top or equal that, which he was not far off for Lille, scoring 15 in 50.

 

Once more the key word with Boufal is potential. Hopefully he will give us the same unpredictability and threat that Mane did. As for Sadio, I really think we should have got more for him than we did. Liverpool have looked far more threatening when he has played this season. Obviously, it will still be a few weeks until we see anything of Sofiane; whereas Sadio is up and running. Therefore, I am going to give this one a minus point. I certainly hope that Boufal goes on to show I was wrong in doing so. Bu I honestly think we would have those extra points in the bag had Mane played for us against Watford and Sunderland.

 

Running Total -2

 

Austin vice Pelle

 

I really hate having to put this one here as we had both on our books for the latter part of last season, and we should be comparing to how we were at the end of last season. However, as it is generally accepted that Austin was bought to be Pelle's replacement.......

 

Over the past 2 seasons Austin scored 29 in 59 whilst Pelle bagged 30 in 79. Of course, 10 of Charlie's goals came in the Championship, whereas Pelles were in the prem or at international level. Which is another point, is there any one on here who honestly believes Austin would have be leading the Italian front line if their nationalities were reversed? I certainly don't. Which one of the reasons why I am going to give to give this another minus point, although perhaps that is a bit harsh and the players are more equal in talent. The other reason why I believe it is a minus is that we are a striker light within the squad (as I said previously, we had both of them at the end of the season).

 

Running Total -3

 

So, overall, I believe we are 3 players worse off - in terms of their current abilities and effectiveness to the squad - than we were at the end of last season. As has been said before, by myself and others, I feel that this really equates to huge missed opportunity given our 6th placed finish and participation in Europe this season.

 

We do, however, now have three players of great potential. If they all come good they will really be useful for us next season. I just hope they will all be here then, along with Frazer, VvD, Bertrand, etc.

 

shouldn't these numbers be weighted? boufal not being as good as Mane (I think boufal will be better though), is surely much more important than our 3rd keeper situation. I couldn't care less if Taylor is fractionally worse than Gazzaniga. I would sya this;

 

Mccarthy/ stek - I'd prefer McCarthy (just do) +1

Pied/Martina - better with both, even if injured for now +1

Taylor/Gazzaniga - couldn't care less 0

hojberg / wanyama - wanyama more established -0.5

Redmond / juanmi/Ramirez +1 (obvs)

Boufal / Mane really tough, will say -0.4 to try and remain balanced

Austin / Pelle - biggest loss, -1

 

final total = +1.1

 

so, turns out we're stronger! bonus!

[ashnats]

shouldn't these numbers be weighted? boufal not being as good as Mane (I think boufal will be better though), is surely much more important than our 3rd keeper situation. I couldn't care less if Taylor is fractionally worse than Gazzaniga. I would sya this;

 

Mccarthy/ stek - I'd prefer McCarthy (just do) +1

Pied/Martina - better with both, even if injured for now +1

Taylor/Gazzaniga - couldn't care less 0

hojberg / wanyama - wanyama more established -0.5

Redmond / juanmi/Ramirez +1 (obvs)

Boufal / Mane really tough, will say -0.4 to try and remain balanced

Austin / Pelle - biggest loss, -1

 

final total = +1.1

 

so, turns out we're stronger! bonus!

 

actually, pied/martin should only be +0.4, so I'll turn it down to +0.7 overall

[baggytrousers]

Why the over analyzing and number crunching? We are weaker than last season it is not rocket science... With more games to play aswell. Tactics wise we have looked clueless and will either adapt eventually or will fade fast and Claude will be out the door.

 

Saints and the youth teams are used to playing a sepcific way and this clown comes in and throws it out the window.... Doesnt make any sense...

 

The youth teams play 4-3-3 not anything to do with the first team's formation but because this formation is best for their footballing education (see the excellent article on Les Reed on St. Marys Musings for more info).

 

Poch played a 4-2-3-1 high pressing style and Koeman switched between 3-5-2 and 4-2-3-1, neither one are the same as the 4-3-3 the youth teams play so why are you complaining about this now ?

 

Don't believe we are weaker than last year at all and tactics-wise I think the first team has shown a lot of promise. It's our execution, particularly in the final third, that has been letting us down.

 

Still, early days yet. We are only 3 games into the season, always assuming that it's Southampton that you support.