Balanced reflections on the transfer window - no arguments allowed!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Any argument you had has gone out of the window with that comment!!.

 

Unbelievable!..........................Jeff!.

 

Why? Some of the posters have previous for it.

[verlaine1979]

This squad should be okay for a finish somewhere around 8-12 in the league, providing we don't lose anyone crucial to long-term injury, and that we find a formation makes the most of what we've got (playing a lone out and out striker again would suddenly make our relative paucity of specialist front men seem a bit less daunting).

 

What's disappointing is not seeing us being a bit more adventurous in adding a few more promising young internationals to the squad (Stanciu seemed like a good option, and there were definitely others we were linked with after the Euros). This is, after all, the economic model that the likes of Dortmund and Atletico adopt - not simply replacing 1 for 1, but selling 1 established star and then buying 2 promising players with that money. That way we'd hedge our bets against slow adaptation to the league, injury, and loss of form, and potentially strengthen future revenue streams by having two improved players to sell rather than one... There are plenty of games in a season, and plenty of opportunities to come on and change games for players who don't start, and we certainly had room in our squad to pack in a bit more quality.

[Strangely Brown]

Why? Some of the posters have previous for it.

 

Oh dear, even if that was the case there is no need to give it any credibility by repeating or referring to it you wally!!

[saint-crinny]

Ultimately, after a window that has seen us lose some very good players and sign some potentially very good new players (nothing new with that) I have two main concerns/frustrations.

 

1. it does feel like an opportunity missed to really strengthen the squad after the success of last season, further raised profile of the club and more games due to the Europa this year. Had we done all of the business in and out that we have, but added another striker and centre back of equal quality to the likes of Hojbjerg and potentially Bouffal I would have been pretty happy. Note that I don't think this should have happened on deadline day as a panic, there was plenty of time to get it done beforehand ala Redmond and Hojbjerg.

 

2. As that hasn't happened, the squad on paper still looks pretty good and therefore, main concern is that the current system doesn't look like it fits the squad's strengths. Either they need to adapt quickly or Puel needs a pretty sharp rethink, otherwise even a squad with talented players can slip into trouble.

 

I don't think we'll go down, but if in a month's time, results haven't picked up i'll be getting nervous, regardless of the obvious talent in the squad.

[Toon Saint]

We all know that there are at least three sides in the discussions about the transfer window:

 

* The optimists who believe that this has been a brilliant window and the club can do no wrong. They hate the pessimists and cannot accept that there can be any concerns about the way the club is run.

* The pessimists who believe the club is in complete meltdown, owned by self-serving profiteers who are part of a conspiracy to destroy Southampton Football Club. They hate optimists and cannot accept that the club have done anything right in the transfer window.

* The realists who expected and would have liked a bit more out of this transfer window but can see both good and bad in it. The can't stand the arguments between the optimists and pessimists and wish they would just shut up so we can concentrate on what is really happening (or not happening).

 

Of course there are various shades of grey between each of these positions.

 

If you are an extreme optimist or an extreme pessimist this probably isn't the thread for you. Nevertheless, you don't need to be a pure realist to contribute - but let's try to avoid the arguments of other threads shall we?! Thanks!

 

So... having said all of that, what are your reflections on this transfer window? What was good and what was bad?

 

I will start...

 

* I like the look of many of the players we have brought in.

* I am concerned at the players we have lost.

* I am concerned at the loss of Koeman and, while it felt like the right appointment at first, I have yet to be convinced that Puel will turn out to be the right manager for us.

* Nevertheless, I have had my reservations about each of the managers we have appointed during the Liebbherr era (apart from Pardew) and each time I have been proven wrong.

* I don't believe we will win anything this season, nor do I think we will qualify for Europe.

* I think we should (hopefully) be strong enough to avoid relegation but I'm concerened that we may not be totally confident about this until quite late in the season.

* I think the club will be disappointed at our league position at Christmas and will be forced to make further unplanned steps in the transfer market.

* I do think there may be a longer term strategy at play here, which could work out to be inspirational as long as we can steer clear of relegation.

* I think we could, if things go to plan in that longer term strategy, potentially see a steady building up of Saints status and league standing over forthcoming seasons built on greater squad/transfer stability which will hopefully see us surpass our recent success.

* I think we will also see Saints re-establish itself as a hot bed of international youth development.

* I think next summer will see less players leaving Saints, because long contracts will make them too expensive for other clubs.

* Nevertheless, I do think there is a risk that some players may become unsettled at a sense that the club seems to lack ambition and does not seem to provide any prospect of silverware.

 

OK - so what do you think? Feel free to disagree with other's opinions but let's do so constructively rather than by arguing. Thanks!

 

Good OP, agree with most of this.

 

* While I'm excited about the signings of Boufal, Hojberg, and to a lesser extent, Redmond, I'm in the strange position of feeling underwhelmed by our overall transfer activity, and failure to capitalise on the (relatively) coveted position of offering European football. Given that we were able to attract the likes of Boufal and Hojberg, feel we could have done a lot more to improve the overall quality of squad.

* Thought that Puel was a sensible if uninspiring appointment at the time. Has a great reputation for developing players, but also has a poor track record in his first season with clubs. Given the cut-throat nature of the PL not sure how much time he will given to get things right. He is utterly devoid of charisma.

* I had to miss the Watford game so have only seen us against Sunderland live, but despite a decent first 15 mins, I was a bit concerned about the fitness levels of our squad. We seemed to lack intensity and only really reacted when we went behind. Austin, especially, looked overweight. Pressing seems to have gone, but we aren't dominant enough across midfield to assert any real control over the game.

* On that subject, where does Charlie Austin fit in? If we stick with a diamond and he is playing this split forward role, it just doesn't suit him drifting out to the wings or making runs 20 yards outside the penalty box. He is a penalty box player, basically, and that's where we need him. If we revert back to a 4-2-3-1 after diamond experiment fails then his hold up play just isn't good enough to play the lone striker.

* Concerned about the lack of natural partnership's we seem to have up-front. Granted, Boufal might add a lot more guile to our forward line, but given the combinations of strikers we have (Long, Redmond, J-Rod, Austin) then none of them particularly strike me as forwards that could easily play in tandem with one another.

* Not convinced that we can rely upon Romeu, and especially Clasie, to perform the role of sole midfield pivot. Vic and Morgan could've managed this on their own but Romeu lacks the awareness, and Clasie, the dynamism, to play this role on their own.

* RB is still a problem area and Cedric needs to up his game considerably. The club have tried to rectify this but we've had bad luck with Pied.

* Finally we have a back-up GK that seems to be decent. At least Fat Sam appears to think so...

* Pleased we have tied down a number of key players in VvD, Tadic, Davis, and Long. Not sure Cedric or JWP particularly deserved new and improved contracts, however.

* Given these extensions, feel that we are in a particularly strong position regarding keeping players at the club and we won't be forced into selling next summer. The caveat, of course, that if we don't build on the momentum of reaching Europe two years running, then our star players like VvD, Hojberg, Boufal might start to agitate. Regardless, we are in a position of power with the length of all of their contracts.

[DuncanRG]

When you look at how Leicester have grasped the mettle this window you can see how they are seriously trying to build on their success whereas I think we have stood still at best and that is if our three big signings adequately replace the three main leavers. So its not disastrous but its not ambitious. Yes we haven't wasted money but money in the bank doesn't win you trophies. This could have been an historic season but I sense one of mundaneness now.

 

Take out the reference to Leicester and this post has been made every summer since 2013. Every summer is a huge summer, chance to step up etc.

 

I think we've done good business. Our sales have been long anticipated and planned for, and almost everyone who hasn't been sold has been tied down to a contract. I'm a bit concerned about our options up front and in defensive midfield, but it seems the club have filled the positions they wanted. I'd much rather have a club with a plan I don't understand yet than a club that clearly doesn't have one and goes for deadline day scrambles.

Edited 1 September, 2016 by DuncanRG

[SaintTex]

To me all this angst is not really about our business this summer as it relates to the squad (boths ins and outs).

 

I would imagine 99% of those wringing their hands right now would feel pretty good about the current squad if Koeman was still at the helm and we were sitting on 5 points instead of 2 points after three matches.

 

I know... ifs, but really it is the Puel factor that has most worried. With the lack of charisma and the language barrier, his leash is much shorter with fans if he doesn't produce right away. As a fan, he is not an easy figure to get behind and rally around. (I wish I felt differently.)

[shurlock]

Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

 

Edited 1 September, 2016 by shurlock

[DuncanRG]

To me all this angst is not really about our business this summer as it relates to the squad (boths ins and outs).

 

I would imagine 99% of those wringing their hands right now would feel pretty good about the current squad if Koeman was still at the helm and we were sitting on 5 points instead of 2 points after three matches.

 

I know... ifs, but really it is the Puel factor that has most worried. With the lack of charisma and the language barrier, his leash is much shorter with fans if he doesn't produce right away. As a fan, he is not an easy figure to get behind and rally around. (I wish I felt differently.)

 

Agreed. We'll get behind him when he starts winning though, same as anyone.

[New Forest Steve]

I don't understand what people have against Redmond. If he was Spanish or something, would people be happier? I suspect that they might for some reason.

 

Probably that he wasn't expensive enough

[New Forest Steve]

 

:lol: ..... you crack me up sometimes Pal

[Heisenberg]

I don't understand what people have against Redmond. If he was Spanish or something, would people be happier? I suspect that they might for some reason.

 

He averages a goal every 10 games and was a substitute last season for a relegated team. Might be part of the reason?

 

I personally don't have any issues and will judge him at the end of the season - hoping he is as good as Puel thinks he is.

[baggytrousers]

He averages a goal every 10 games and was a substitute last season for a relegated team. Might be part of the reason?

 

I personally don't have any issues and will judge him at the end of the season - hoping he is as good as Puel thinks he is.

 

He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists in the Premier League last season which is better than one goal in 10 and is a lot better than Berahino's 4 goals and 0 assists as a striker for a mid-table club or Bony's 4 goals and 4 assists as a striker for a top 4 club. Yet quite a few posters wanted us to spunk 20 million plus on one of these two and seem unimpressed by Redmond.

 

Redmond has also scored 9 in 28 for the England U21s which is pretty decent from midfield.

 

As an aside I was chatting to a Norwich fan on the train last night and he was raving about Redmond. Couldn't believe they'd sold him and thought we had an absolute bargain.

[Badger]

Observations on the changes:

 

Mane - Boufal ; from some of the articles read, and comments made Boufal may be equal to, and possibly an improvement (the proviso being he recovers from his injury of course, and doesn't prove to have glass ankles or knees

 

Hojberg - Wanyama - Hojberg is an excellent signing, but NOT a VW replacement, we simply haven't recruited a DM of any note. Hojberg would be a lot more effective alongside a Wanyama type, or a Morgan. As it is he may be reluctant to venture too far upfield knowing Romeu isn't going to effectively cover.

 

Redmond - Juanmi - as a replacement for Juanmi, NR is an improvement, but just don't try to pretend he's a first choice striker

 

GK - McCarthy a few years ago was highly rated, no concern over him in place of Steklenberg or PG.

 

Austin - Pelle - we simply need more threat up front.

 

RB - we've gone from two unconvincing RB's, to having the same two AND a crock. No improvements.

 

None of which addresses limitations in DM , goalscoring threat, and Central Defence

 

Conclusion is that although we've again made some potentially astute signings - Hojberg, and Boufal in particular - its pretty average, as we've not adequately replaced VW.

 

Biggest question mark though hangs over the choice of manager, and his tactics. Unless that proves a good choice then we're buggered irrespective of the signings.

[New Forest Steve]

 

I personally don't have any issues and will judge him at the end of the season

 

That's good then, well done you

[New Forest Steve]

Observations on the changes:

 

Mane - Boufal ; from some of the articles read, and comments made Boufal may be equal to, and possibly an improvement (the proviso being he recovers from his injury of course, and doesn't prove to have glass ankles or knees

 

Hojberg - Wanyama - Hojberg is an excellent signing, but NOT a VW replacement, we simply haven't recruited a DM of any note. Hojberg would be a lot more effective alongside a Wanyama type, or a Morgan. As it is he may be reluctant to venture too far upfield knowing Romeu isn't going to effectively cover.

 

Redmond - Juanmi - as a replacement for Juanmi, NR is an improvement, but just don't try to pretend he's a first choice striker

 

GK - McCarthy a few years ago was highly rated, no concern over him in place of Steklenberg or PG.

 

Austin - Pelle - we simply need more threat up front.

 

RB - we've gone from two unconvincing RB's, to having the same two AND a crock. No improvements.

 

None of which addresses limitations in DM , goalscoring threat, and Central Defence

 

Conclusion is that although we've again made some potentially astute signings - Hojberg, and Boufal in particular - its pretty average, as we've not adequately replaced VW.

 

Biggest question mark though hangs over the choice of manager, and his tactics. Unless that proves a good choice then we're buggered irrespective of the signings.

 

WTF .... didn't know any of this, you've got me worried now !!

[Badger]

WTF .... didn't know any of this, you've got me worried now !!

 

Cup of Horlicks and go to bed then, it'll look better in the morning.

[angelman]

When you look at how Leicester have grasped the mettle this window you can see how they are seriously trying to build on their success whereas I think we have stood still at best and that is if our three big signings adequately replace the three main leavers. So its not disastrous but its not ambitious. Yes we haven't wasted money but money in the bank doesn't win you trophies. This could have been an historic season but I sense one of mundaneness now.

 

I look at Leicester and wonder whether they have something in common with Leeds, although I realise that there is more money around these days.

[New Forest Steve]

Cup of Horlicks and go to bed then, it'll look better in the morning.

 

will do, nun nite Badger

[silly point]

I am concerned about the loss of koeman ... Whatever else might be said about his departure, he was flexible in using the players and that flexibility won us a few key games

That said, i dont think the 6th place was a true reflection over the season but we werent that much behind either (7 or .

I am concerned we dont have a backup for Romeu/DM.

Puel would earn my trust if he shows the willingness to be flexible (he has shown glimpses of that already by inserting JROD at tthe last game)

I am concerned that Puel is not a good communicator ... A lot of times the players (and the fans) will back him and buy into his logic if only he makes an effort to describe his diamond or whatever it is (and why he is going with it)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saint in NZ]

Am very concerned about the lack of firepower. Goals win games, not possession. We have lost Pelle and Mane, our prime goalscorers, and haven't replaced them with a recognised striker. OK, we have Austin and JRod but with large question marks over them. Can't understand why this wasn't addressed in the transfer window. Having said all of that, a win at Arsenal would turn everything around. Not likely but who knows in the PL? Feel the best we can hope for is MTM (mid table mediocrity) this season but would love to be proved wrong. Come on Saints do just that!

[Heisenberg]

He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists in the Premier League last season which is better than one goal in 10 and is a lot better than Berahino's 4 goals and 0 assists as a striker for a mid-table club or Bony's 4 goals and 4 assists as a striker for a top 4 club. Yet quite a few posters wanted us to spunk 20 million plus on one of these two and seem unimpressed by Redmond.

 

Redmond has also scored 9 in 28 for the England U21s which is pretty decent from midfield.

 

As an aside I was chatting to a Norwich fan on the train last night and he was raving about Redmond. Couldn't believe they'd sold him and thought we had an absolute bargain.

 

Like I said he averages a goal every 10 games - not that impressive. Better return last season but also scored had a run of 1 in 25 games last season before a little flurry tail end of the season.

 

Glad your mate rates him as I personally think he will do OK for us

[Saint_Tony]

That's fine, you think VVD is worth less than £35m. Personally, I think he's worth more than that.

I was ridiculed on here just a couple of months ago for suggesting he will be worth £40 million when he is sold next summer. In the current market, he's easily worth that

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Baird of the land]

Am very concerned about the lack of firepower. Goals win games, not possession. We have lost Pelle and Mane, our prime goalscorers, and haven't replaced them with a recognised striker. OK, we have Austin and JRod but with large question marks over them. Can't understand why this wasn't addressed in the transfer window. Having said all of that, a win at Arsenal would turn everything around. Not likely but who knows in the PL? Feel the best we can hope for is MTM (mid table mediocrity) this season but would love to be proved wrong. Come on Saints do just that!

 

Personally i'm yet to be convinced that Austin can operate effectively in any of the systems we have operated over the last year, which has always been my issue with him. Seem to be a lot less people crowing about this signing than there were last January though or arguing we should sign him before that.

I'm glad to see Jrod being given an opportunity.

If neither turn good we could end up having to go back into the market in January but i can see why we wouldn't have now in order to give them a fair crack at the whip.

[david in sweden]

.......it's hard to judge the overall reaction on this board as there are quite a few widely-varying opinions on our current status.

 

Some people seem decidely unimpressed when we buy a player for a relatively small fee, whereas high spending and "breaking the transfer record " is a sure sign that the player will be under intense scrutiny and condemned as a waste of money - if he doesn't show up as MoM every week.

The incredible rise in the cost (I won't say value) of fairly ordinary players for tens of millions does nothing to convince us that paying a big fee is a guarantee of success.

Like those "big shot" strikers who move from club to club in search of the success that they once knew .....but has since eluded them.

 

Whilst the media " boasts " that Prem.clubs have spend over £1 billion in this window, it's can also be noted that more than half of that sum was spent by just 5 clubs, whilst the remainder try to pick up players from "the best of the rest" in a market that is decreasing in both skill and potential, whilst demanding ridiculous prices for them.

 

With rare exception, most of the players who Saints have bought in recent years have been in the £8-£12 million range (with exception*of Mayuka, Forran and Juanmi). Mane have proven to have given a boost to the "transfer kitty ", and even the sales of Pelle and Wanyama were a good return on investment - considering we had good service from them for a couple of seasons. By now you will have noted that I have omitted the " maniacal deals " that brought * Gaston and Osvaldo to SMS at the behest of the former Chairman, whereas the Academy has proven its worth with the sales of; Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, Chambers and Lallana netting close to £100 million in sales.

 

There's obviously no pleasing everyone, but there can be little real complaint about our club that has progressed from bottom of L1 to the top six of the Prem. and although there have been mistakes and errors of judgement along the way we can hope that as long as we continue to "breed " newcomers through the Academy, and do not have the werewithal to buy players for £40-£50 million a time, all in all .....we have little to genuinely complain about.

 

Once again, we have changes in the squad and managerial personnel, but are used to that by now and there's no cause to condemn until we can analyse the season in May.

[UpweySaint]

Personally i'm yet to be convinced that Austin can operate effectively in any of the systems we have operated over the last year, which has always been my issue with him. Seem to be a lot less people crowing about this signing than there were last January though or arguing we should sign him before that.

I'm glad to see Jrod being given an opportunity.

If neither turn good we could end up having to go back into the market in January but i can see why we wouldn't have now in order to give them a fair crack at the whip.

 

I would suggest perhaps we have not seen enough of him to really judge though I do share your concerns. Hopefully he can adapt his game because he has some qualities we need.

[Badger]

I was ridiculed on here just a couple of months ago for suggesting he will be worth £40 million when he is sold next summer. In the current market, he's easily worth that

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

If Stones is £50m even allowing for the 'English premium' then VVD is easily worth £40m, possibly should be upwards of that.

 

Whether we hold out for that kind of fee or sell in the first week of June though is an entirely different matter.

[tajjuk]

I don't understand what people have against Redmond. If he was Spanish or something, would people be happier? I suspect that they might for some reason.

 

He's just not that good and people might be happier with him being Spanish because they wouldn't have seen him last season, so wouldn't know he's not that good.

 

But he basically is not that good, which is evidenced by watching his performances last season in a terrible Norwich team where he did not really stand out and was over shadowed as an attacking talent by Wes Hoolahan and probably by Naismith as well. Hence why he didn't play as often as you'd expect him to be and got subbed fairly often.

 

He's young and may get better, we can only hope he does, but a first team player for a team that finished 6th last year he is not. He's a decent addition to the squad, but sadly he isn't he's one of the replacements for lost first team quality.

[angelman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3769634/Premier-League-sides-admit-paying-way-odds-players-selling-clubs-dominate-market-craziest-transfer-window-yet.html

 

I guess this is fairly spot on. I do love this line though....Those who already laud the arrival of Paul Pogba at Manchester United may wish to wait until they see the Frenchman play against someone other than Southampton and Hull City before they decide that £89m was a judicious investment.

 

I look at our 3 main arrivals, and do think that we probably overpaid, but not in the same league as others.

 

Boufal @ £16m - maybe £12m might be better (3 years on contract - MV £11m)

Hojbjerg @ £12.8m - maybe £9m (2 years left on contract - MV £5.1m)

Redmond @ £11m - maybe £8m (1 year left on contract - MV £6.38)

 

The MV is from transfermrkt, and I realise is a little meaningless - eg VVD is at £10m. Looking at the price of Redmond with 1 year remaining being about the same as we sold Wanyama for, shows that we prob overpaid Redmnd and undersold Wanyama a bit. But really. I am glad that we didn't spend £30m on anyone, or even £20m on Berahino.

[david in sweden]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3769634/Premier-League-sides-admit-paying-way-odds-players-selling-clubs-dominate-market-craziest-transfer-window-yet.html

 

I guess this is fairly spot on. I do love this line though....Those who already laud the arrival of Paul Pogba at Manchester United may wish to wait until they see the Frenchman play against someone other than Southampton and Hull City before they decide that £89m was a judicious investment.

 

I look at our 3 main arrivals, and do think that we probably overpaid, but not in the same league as others.

 

Boufal @ £16m - maybe £12m might be better (3 years on contract - MV £11m)

Hojbjerg @ £12.8m - maybe £9m (2 years left on contract - MV £5.1m)

Redmond @ £11m - maybe £8m (1 year left on contract - MV £6.38)

 

The MV is from transfermrkt, and I realise is a little meaningless - eg VVD is at £10m. Looking at the price of Redmond with 1 year remaining being about the same as we sold Wanyama for, shows that we prob overpaid Redmnd and undersold Wanyama a bit.

But really. I am glad that we didn't spend £30m on anyone, or even £20m on Berahino.

 

you're not the only one with that opinion I'm sure. Especially Berahino who is...IMO ....vastly over-rated.

 

However, such sites seem often to be designed by people who aren't in touch with the reality of transfers.

 

IMO...just now ..£10 million wouldn't buy VvD's right boot. If he continues at the rate of last season, he may set a new transfer record (if he were to leave in near future).

 

Those people who thought that Sadio Mané was an over-priced waste of space in his first season have been strangely silent since his transfer to L'pool.

 

The fact we got the fees for Wanyama and Pellé (seems remarkable ) considering they were in their final seasons and could have walked away for £nothing next summer.

Edited 2 September, 2016 by david in sweden

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3769634/Premier-League-sides-admit-paying-way-odds-players-selling-clubs-dominate-market-craziest-transfer-window-yet.html

 

I guess this is fairly spot on. I do love this line though....Those who already laud the arrival of Paul Pogba at Manchester United may wish to wait until they see the Frenchman play against someone other than Southampton and Hull City before they decide that £89m was a judicious investment.

 

I look at our 3 main arrivals, and do think that we probably overpaid, but not in the same league as others.

 

Boufal @ £16m - maybe £12m might be better (3 years on contract - MV £11m)

Hojbjerg @ £12.8m - maybe £9m (2 years left on contract - MV £5.1m)

Redmond @ £11m - maybe £8m (1 year left on contract - MV £6.38)

 

The MV is from transfermrkt, and I realise is a little meaningless - eg VVD is at £10m. Looking at the price of Redmond with 1 year remaining being about the same as we sold Wanyama for, shows that we prob overpaid Redmnd and undersold Wanyama a bit. But really. I am glad that we didn't spend £30m on anyone, or even £20m on Berahino.

 

why?

[SuperSAINT]

Puel reflects on the end of the summer transfer window:

 

[Mr X]

Puel reflects on the end of the summer transfer window:

 

 

no two ways about it our manager could send a insomniac on 20 cans of red bull to sleep, god knows how the dressing room talks work! doesnt sow the slightest bit of energy or enthusiasm doesn't mean hes a bad manager though I guess

[S-Clarke]

I still think he's just a bit nervous/shy in front of a camera, the video shows himself off a little more vocal/interesting on the training pitch.

[HomerJ]

I don't think it was a bad window for us. These would be my observations:

 

Yes we lost mane and wanyama but we could have lost a lot more. (I accept that sounds negative but it's the reality based on the last few summers)

 

Not only did we keep some other key players we also tied them down to good contracts

 

These contracts would have been costly, a figure not represented in the "net spend" people talk about

 

Whilst I accept that it won't necessarily keep those players here it has probably brought our wage structure a little more in line with the rest of the premier league and may help in future signings

 

Hojberg definitely looks the real deal and could be a great signing as could boufal. McCarthy as back up is a great improvement on last year and had a keeper of his standard been available during forsters absence last year it could have made a big difference to the season outcome.

 

My biggest concern remains to be around where we will get goals from. We've lost our two best goal scorers from last season and the new formation doesn't suit Austin. Without a target up front I fear will be stuck with hopeful long distant shots like against Sunderland.

 

It's early days still for Puel and his philosophies are still bedding in.

[spyinthesky]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3769634/Premier-League-sides-admit-paying-way-odds-players-selling-clubs-dominate-market-craziest-transfer-window-yet.html

 

I guess this is fairly spot on. I do love this line though....Those who already laud the arrival of Paul Pogba at Manchester United may wish to wait until they see the Frenchman play against someone other than Southampton and Hull City before they decide that £89m was a judicious investment.

 

I look at our 3 main arrivals, and do think that we probably overpaid, but not in the same league as others.

 

Boufal @ £16m - maybe £12m might be better (3 years on contract - MV £11m)

Hojbjerg @ £12.8m - maybe £9m (2 years left on contract - MV £5.1m)

Redmond @ £11m - maybe £8m (1 year left on contract - MV £6.38)

 

The MV is from transfermrkt, and I realise is a little meaningless - eg VVD is at £10m. Looking at the price of Redmond with 1 year remaining being about the same as we sold Wanyama for, shows that we prob overpaid Redmnd and undersold Wanyama a bit. But really. I am glad that we didn't spend £30m on anyone, or even £20m on Berahino.

 

I think the Daily Mail table is quite interesting

 

From our own perspective there will be some supporters who think we should have spent more money on strengthening the side (and we appear to have a theoretical sum of around £20m to buy players without going into the red).

There may be others who applaud the club for ensuring the club doesn't put itself into hock and risk financial meltdown. Certainly if the team can perform well this season with the current squad then fair play to the Board.

It certainly shows the disparity between our negative spend and the outlay of the likes of Bournemouth, Burnley and Sunderland where there is a difference of around £40m between their outlay and ours.

Out of interest I tried to work out the Daily Mail's figures ie £43.8m outlay versus £64m revenue

 

I got to

 

Money Received

 

Mane £35m

Pelle £13m

Wanyama £11m

Juanmi £3m TOTAL £62m (plus Koeman £5m?)

 

Transfer Outlay

 

Hodjberg £12.8m

Bouffal £16.0m

Redmond £12.0m

McCarthy £2.0m TOTAL £42.8m

 

Appreciate any corrections to my assumptions

[shurlock]

no two ways about it our manager could send a insomniac on 20 cans of red bull to sleep, god knows how the dressing room talks work! doesnt sow the slightest bit of energy or enthusiasm doesn't mean hes a bad manager though I guess

 

Puel out, Sherwood in.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

no two ways about it our manager could send a insomniac on 20 cans of red bull to sleep, god knows how the dressing room talks work! doesnt sow the slightest bit of energy or enthusiasm doesn't mean hes a bad manager though I guess

 

Indeed, we dont know...

[notnowcato]

I think it's a bit unfair to say the squad is weaker when a better way to describe our squad is less proven, time will tell if they are weaker or stronger.

 

We have a different look already, a different style is in the offing. I'm pleased we've lost "the lump" in the middle, that is not disparaging to Victor but more to his type.

 

Looking forward to seeing Boufal.

[InvictaSaint]

I still think he's just a bit nervous/shy in front of a camera, the video shows himself off a little more vocal/interesting on the training pitch.

 

Agree entirely. And I'll say it again; if you have never had to speak for a prolonged period of time in a language which is not your first, it demands great focus and can be bloody exhausting to start with. S-Clarke is right; look at CP in the action shots of the video and see how much smilier and animated he is. That's where we need him to be Mr Positive, not in front of the camera.

[angelman]

In all honesty, I really don't care how he comes across on the screen. All that is important to me is how he and the players communicate.

[Vancouver Saint]

Black hat: We're a couple of injuries away from a serious hole at CB and DM

White hat: We're not injured yet. We kept some key players, equivalent to major new signings IMO (VVD and Tadic especially). We made some astute purchases without breaking the bank...all outfielders have creative flair. We have kept our powder dry if we need to invest more in January. We have ridden out another turbulent summer bringing in a promising new manager who deserves far more time than it would appear most people on this site are willing to give him.

 

I can't help but feel that if we were sitting on 4 or 5 points now instead of 2 (and let's face it, we easily could have been - we were easily better than Watford, played ok against ManUre and should have beaten Sunderland) we'd be more positive as a group.

[bazza]

In all honesty, I really don't care how he comes across on the screen. All that is important to me is how he and the players communicate.

 

Yep, although it will be used as a stick to beat him with if results don't pick up.

[monosaint]

Happy with the acquisitions and feel that perhaps the balance is right in that bringing in too many signings will unsettle the squad. You cannot keep too many top quality players happy sitting on the bench unless of course you are Man U and can pay them £150K per week to do so.

[david in sweden]

NOT signing more players, whilst continuing to promote the image of the Academy is going to be a difficult balancing act.

 

A second look at the bench / U23 squad suggests that some players may get " game time " in matches that don't involve.... away games v. the traditional top 4 clubs.

 

If all the " first-choicers " are fit .....the question won't arise, but it's hard to picture they can play twice-a-week, month-in and month-out whilst avoiding injury and holding their best form. We will have games in the U23's Cup competiton - (whatever it's called) plus both the League and FA Cups ....and the Prem. as well as the Europa League, although the fixture list in 2017 will depend a lot on... if and how far ... we may / or not progress in these competitions.

 

Alex McCarthy and Stuart Taylor may find themselves between the posts more often, and the fast-improving Valery and McQueen may get outings at FB, as well as the versatile Jack Stephens. Harrison Reed might have had much more game time than he's had so far - if he'd been in a number of " other Prem. sides ".

 

Jake Hesketh always looks impressive to me, and both Sims and Olomola might find themselves on the bench - if they continue to score for the U23's and I'm sure I'm not alone in anticipating the return of Ryan Seager to the U23 forward line.

 

" Come the Day, Come the man" ....and we don't know who might be the next big " hero" from the squads who will establish themselves later this season.

Edited 3 September, 2016 by david in sweden

[Mr X]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14720698.Saints_end_record_breaking_summer_with_largest_Premier_League_profit/ reason to worry? who knows!

[Minsk]

Black hat: We're a couple of injuries away from a serious hole at CB and DM

White hat: We're not injured yet. We kept some key players, equivalent to major new signings IMO (VVD and Tadic especially). We made some astute purchases without breaking the bank...all outfielders have creative flair. We have kept our powder dry if we need to invest more in January. We have ridden out another turbulent summer bringing in a promising new manager who deserves far more time than it would appear most people on this site are willing to give him.

 

I can't help but feel that if we were sitting on 4 or 5 points now instead of 2 (and let's face it, we easily could have been - we were easily better than Watford, played ok against ManUre and should have beaten Sunderland) we'd be more positive as a group.

 

I am absolutely certain we would be more positive as a group if we had 4 or 5 points more than we currently have; as that would have meant winning our home matches and possibly drawing away to Utd. Had we only won one of those home matches and drawn the other then many would also probably be feeling more positive. The problem is that we failed to score more than one goal against 2 very poor sides, whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet and looking fragile at the back.

 

I gave my overall thoughts of the window previously in this thread. Now, I would like to give my thoughts on each individual signing, who they effectively replaced and how I feel that will impact us this season. Primarily, I will compare how we stand right now, at the beginning of this season, with how we finished the last one. Additionally, I will make some comparisons of players over recent previous seasons.

 

McCarthy vice Stekelenburg

 

McCarthy - last season he made 7 appearances for Palace, failing to keep a clean sheet in any. The season before he that made 5 appearances (4 for QPR, 1 for Reading) whilst also failing to keep a clean sheet.

 

Stekelenburg - last season kept 9 clean sheets in his 25 appearances for us.

 

Yes, McCarthy is some 7 years younger than Stek, so will be playing for longer. However, he can only dream of having a career anything like the Dutchman who, at only 1 year older than McCarthy is now played in a World Cup Final. In a couple of years time I will probably be happier to have McCarthy than Stek. But, right now, for this season, I feel that Stek is the better 'keeper. Therefore, minus one transfer point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Taylor vice Kelvin and Gazzanigga

 

Taylor - To be honest, I am still trying to work out why we have bothered signing Taylor. Surely there must have been a better option out there? Yes, he is an experienced 'keeper; if you consider being 35 and spending almost your entire career sat on bench (at best) being experienced. He was without a club for the entirety of last season and has only made 10 first team appearances in the past 6 years! Of those only one was a clean sheet, for Leeds Vs Rotherham.

 

Kelvin/Gazza - Kelvin obviously felt, at 39, it was time to hang his gloves up. However, in recent years, he made far more fist team appearances than Taylor, and at a higher level. I also understand the need for Gazza to get first team experience and the need for him to go out on loan to achieve this.

 

However, all in all, when comparing Taylor's abilities to the other two I feel we are weaker in the 3rd choice 'keeper option. Therefore, another minus point.

 

Running Total -2

 

Pied vice Martina

 

Yes, I know Martina is still here but this was obviously the plan. The only thing that stopped Pied being Martina's replacement was his unfortunate, but probably timely, injury (it would be worse if he had picked the injury up today, for example, as I am sure Martina would now be an Everton player).

 

I was sat in the Kingsland for the Bilbao and Watford matches so got a good view of Pied during those matches. To be honest, I liked what I saw. I thought he was going to be very useful for us this season but, alas, that is not to be. As we are where we were, no positive or negative transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Hojbjerg vice Wanyama

 

Actually, this a difficult one to call as they are such different players despite both being defensive midfielders. Pierre is undoubtedly going to be the far better footballer of the two. I really like what I have seen of him thus far. Such potential. However, he does not (yet) give the defense anywhere near the amount of cover Victor did/does. Yes, I know Victor got sent off three times last season, but he still only played 3 games less (over the course of the season) than Pierre. And, as bad as his record is, Victor also seems to offer more of a goal scoring threat than Pierre - but I am sure this will change in the next season or two.

 

As we stand right now, I really think we are missing Victor's presence in midfield. Hojbjerg has not replaced that. What Hojbjerg has done is given us more strength than JWP or Classie in midfield. All in all I will call this one a draw, thus no plus or minus transfer points.

 

Running Total -2

 

Redmond vice Juanmi/Ramirez

 

Another case of one player replacing two, as (despite their limited game time) we did have both Juanmi and Ramirez on our books last season and even paid a third of the latter's wages whilst he was playing for 'boro.

 

I like Nathan and believe he does also have a lot of potential I really hope he can be transformed into a striker but not sure that 6 goals in 37 last season (4 of which were scored by mid-October) and 7 in the 50 the previous one indicate that he can. To be fair though, he is already off the mark this season, but then he scored in both Norwich's first 2 matches last season.

 

I was also one of the few on here who liked Gaston and thought he was never really given a full opportunity to show his abilities with us. I honestly think he would be good in the number 10 position for us in our current system. He did score 7 in 18 for Middlesboro last season, albeit in the championship. And, I wonder, would Nathan be a full Uruguayan international if he were of that nationality? Of course, Juanmi lacked the physicality for the prem, or maybe just couldn't settle.

 

Weighing up all of the above I am, for some reason I can't really put my finger on, going to give this one positive point.

 

Running Total -1

 

Boufal vice Mane

 

Again, very hard to compare seeing as we have yet to see Boufal in a Saints shirt. However, we certainly know what Mane was (and is) capable of - 25 goals in his 75 Saints appearances = 1 in 3. Boufal is going to have to go some to top or equal that, which he was not far off for Lille, scoring 15 in 50.

 

Once more the key word with Boufal is potential. Hopefully he will give us the same unpredictability and threat that Mane did. As for Sadio, I really think we should have got more for him than we did. Liverpool have looked far more threatening when he has played this season. Obviously, it will still be a few weeks until we see anything of Sofiane; whereas Sadio is up and running. Therefore, I am going to give this one a minus point. I certainly hope that Boufal goes on to show I was wrong in doing so. Bu I honestly think we would have those extra points in the bag had Mane played for us against Watford and Sunderland.

 

Running Total -2

 

Austin vice Pelle

 

I really hate having to put this one here as we had both on our books for the latter part of last season, and we should be comparing to how we were at the end of last season. However, as it is generally accepted that Austin was bought to be Pelle's replacement.......

 

Over the past 2 seasons Austin scored 29 in 59 whilst Pelle bagged 30 in 79. Of course, 10 of Charlie's goals came in the Championship, whereas Pelles were in the prem or at international level. Which is another point, is there any one on here who honestly believes Austin would have be leading the Italian front line if their nationalities were reversed? I certainly don't. Which one of the reasons why I am going to give to give this another minus point, although perhaps that is a bit harsh and the players are more equal in talent. The other reason why I believe it is a minus is that we are a striker light within the squad (as I said previously, we had both of them at the end of the season).

 

Running Total -3

 

So, overall, I believe we are 3 players worse off - in terms of their current abilities and effectiveness to the squad - than we were at the end of last season. As has been said before, by myself and others, I feel that this really equates to huge missed opportunity given our 6th placed finish and participation in Europe this season.

 

We do, however, now have three players of great potential. If they all come good they will really be useful for us next season. I just hope they will all be here then, along with Frazer, VvD, Bertrand, etc.

[New Forest Steve]

phew .... and I thought Puel's interviews were boring !!

[Hamilton Saint]

Why do you use "vice" instead of versus?

 

[Pancake]

Why do you use "vice" instead of versus?

 

 

In place of, rather than "versus" I thought.