Balanced reflections on the transfer window - no arguments allowed!

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

We all know that there are at least three sides in the discussions about the transfer window:

 

* The optimists who believe that this has been a brilliant window and the club can do no wrong. They hate the pessimists and cannot accept that there can be any concerns about the way the club is run.

* The pessimists who believe the club is in complete meltdown, owned by self-serving profiteers who are part of a conspiracy to destroy Southampton Football Club. They hate optimists and cannot accept that the club have done anything right in the transfer window.

* The realists who expected and would have liked a bit more out of this transfer window but can see both good and bad in it. The can't stand the arguments between the optimists and pessimists and wish they would just shut up so we can concentrate on what is really happening (or not happening).

 

Of course there are various shades of grey between each of these positions.

 

If you are an extreme optimist or an extreme pessimist this probably isn't the thread for you. Nevertheless, you don't need to be a pure realist to contribute - but let's try to avoid the arguments of other threads shall we?! Thanks!

 

So... having said all of that, what are your reflections on this transfer window? What was good and what was bad?

 

I will start...

 

* I like the look of many of the players we have brought in.

* I am concerned at the players we have lost.

* I am concerned at the loss of Koeman and, while it felt like the right appointment at first, I have yet to be convinced that Puel will turn out to be the right manager for us.

* Nevertheless, I have had my reservations about each of the managers we have appointed during the Liebbherr era (apart from Pardew) and each time I have been proven wrong.

* I don't believe we will win anything this season, nor do I think we will qualify for Europe.

* I think we should (hopefully) be strong enough to avoid relegation but I'm concerened that we may not be totally confident about this until quite late in the season.

* I think the club will be disappointed at our league position at Christmas and will be forced to make further unplanned steps in the transfer market.

* I do think there may be a longer term strategy at play here, which could work out to be inspirational as long as we can steer clear of relegation.

* I think we could, if things go to plan in that longer term strategy, potentially see a steady building up of Saints status and league standing over forthcoming seasons built on greater squad/transfer stability which will hopefully see us surpass our recent success.

* I think we will also see Saints re-establish itself as a hot bed of international youth development.

* I think next summer will see less players leaving Saints, because long contracts will make them too expensive for other clubs.

* Nevertheless, I do think there is a risk that some players may become unsettled at a sense that the club seems to lack ambition and does not seem to provide any prospect of silverware.

 

OK - so what do you think? Feel free to disagree with other's opinions but let's do so constructively rather than by arguing. Thanks!

[Saint Paul C]

I'm concerned by the lack of defensive options we have

 

I'm unconvinced (at this stage) by Claude Puel

 

I'm happy about the acquistions of Hojbjerg and Boufal, less so with Redmond

 

We have no chance of a top 6 finish - need to look to win the best of the rest league (Us, Everton, Stoke, Leicester, West Ham etc..)

 

Europa league is exciting, but also due to lack of quality in depth, maybe our downfall this year

 

Can we please try to win a cup this year.

[Gunnery]

I think we finished 6th last season because the usual suspects had unusually poor seasons, this has then raised the expectations of many. That said, I do not believe we will finish higher than 10th due mostly to the extra cup competition. I don't believe the club have adequately replaced Wanyama but admit that doing so would be difficult anyway. I'm excited by the signings of Høejberg, Boufal and Redmond but disappointed that we didn't sign a decent target man striker in the mould of Pelle. It concerns me that Austin and Rodriguez will either fall short of expectation through injury or will be used incorrectly by a manager whom is yet to convince me. Im looking forward to the Eurooa campaign but feel it may be our last for a long time.

[Singapore Saint]

I'm concerned by the lack of defensive options we have

 

I'm unconvinced (at this stage) by Claude Puel

 

I'm happy about the acquistions of Hojbjerg and Boufal, less so with Redmond

 

We have no chance of a top 6 finish - need to look to win the best of the rest league (Us, Everton, Stoke, Leicester, West Ham etc..)

 

Europa league is exciting, but also due to lack of quality in depth, maybe our downfall this year

 

Can we please try to win a cup this year.

 

Not to pick a fight with you mate but:

 

I'm happy with our defensive options

 

I'm like you unconvinced (at this stage) by Claude Puel, not convinced by the diamond (whatever it is)

 

I'm delighted about the acquisitions of Hojbjerg, Boufal and Redmond

 

Whether or not we'll finish top 6 remains to be seen (at the moment it looks unlikely)

 

I'm unhappy we have too many shortarses now, having sold Pelle and Wanyama, we need a target man like we used to have in Pelle (why didn't we sign Das Bost?)

[SNSUN]

* I like the look of many of the players we have brought in. As do I. 2 top young talents, attacking unpredictability in Redmond, strengthened the keeper spot and strengthened the right hand side (albeit he's since got injured.)

* I am concerned at the players we have lost. Yep, 3 good players. But we've lost good players before and done well. The concern is not that we lost them, but have we replaced them effectively? We don't have a midfield destroyer anymore, nor a tall striker to mix up the style of play when we need to. We do have different types of options though.

* I am concerned at the loss of Koeman and, while it felt like the right appointment at first, I have yet to be convinced that Puel will turn out to be the right manager for us. Only time will tell. Koeman had his flaws, and jumped at the money offered which came as a surprise, but if Puel fails, Koeman's stock will only rise in his absence. We have to hope Puel isn't pig headed enough to stick to the diamond all season come what may. We can all see there are better formations available that would fit this squad better.

* Nevertheless, I have had my reservations about each of the managers we have appointed during the Liebbherr era (apart from Pardew) and each time I have been proven wrong. I always back the managers, and luckily enough have been right to do so. Saints haven't got it wrong so far - but there's always a first time. Let's just hope the club aren't stubborn if we start sliding down the table and have the guts to sack the manager if he fails. Which I hope he doesn't.

* I don't believe we will win anything this season, nor do I think we will qualify for Europe. Agree - winning something would be a pleasant surprise.

* I think we should (hopefully) be strong enough to avoid relegation but I'm concerened that we may not be totally confident about this until quite late in the season. I suppose if we call this a transition season a top 12 finish would just about be acceptable. Top 8 would be ideal though. I don't think we'll be flirting with relegation though, but dropping 4 points at home to Watford and Sunderland is not a good start.

* I think the club will be disappointed at our league position at Christmas and will be forced to make further unplanned steps in the transfer market. I'd be surprised if we didn't sign anyone in January. Squads like ours can always be improved.

* I do think there may be a longer term strategy at play here, which could work out to be inspirational as long as we can steer clear of relegation. The new, long term contracts suggest this. 6 year deals were unthinkable in previous seasons, especially for a talent like VVD.

* I think we could, if things go to plan in that longer term strategy, potentially see a steady building up of Saints status and league standing over forthcoming seasons built on greater squad/transfer stability which will hopefully see us surpass our recent success. There will always be ins and outs for a club of our size, it's whether we replace them effectively.

* I think we will also see Saints re-establish itself as a hot bed of international youth development. I still think part of the reason we signed no more players than we did suggest we are putting faith in the youth. Reed and Stephens could see some game time this season, and others like Hesketh, McQueen, Isgrove, Olumola, Valery et al could get cup run appearances. Of course the loan window opens soon so I'm guessing we'll ship out a few then.

* I think next summer will see less players leaving Saints, because long contracts will make them too expensive for other clubs. It depends who kicks off and demands to leave. If we have a poor season the likes of Forster, VVD, Bertrand, Tadic and the new boys may see their futures elsewhere.

* Nevertheless, I do think there is a risk that some players may become unsettled at a sense that the club seems to lack ambition and does not seem to provide any prospect of silverware. The players signed the contracts, both new players and the existing ones, so obviously they've been sold the dream of the future effectively. VVD etc didn't have to sign the contract if he didn't want to, but they obviously believe that this is the place to be for the immediate future.

 

OK - so what do you think? Feel free to disagree with other's opinions but let's do so constructively rather than by arguing. Thanks!

 

My thoughts in red. Overall I'm fairly happy with the 'ins' but think they'll take time to bed, and the players will need time to get used to playing under the new manager. We won't have a season like we've had for the last few years but it won't be disastrous.

 

Forster/McCarthy

 

Cedric/Martina/Pied, Fonte/Yoshida, VVD/Gardos, Bertrand/Targett,

 

Hojbjerg/JWP, Romeu/Clasie, Davis/Reed

 

Redmond/JRod, Long/Austin, Boufal/Tadic

 

and a splattering of youth is still decent. I'm open minded, so long as we start picking up a few more points in the league!

[USA SaintsFan]

My thoughts:

 

Happy with every player we brought in. I think Redmond, Hojbjerg and Boufal all offer tremendous potential and are very Saints-like signings.

 

Dissapointed that we didn't bring in another striker, but happy the club stuck with our philosophy and didn't overspend.

 

Worried about the departures, but think that we have replaced each one adequately.

 

Happy with the squad overall, and confident that we can finish top 12.

 

Not sure about Claude Puel and the diamond. I hope that if it never comes good, that he will change it quickly.

 

COnfused as too how our new signings fit into the formation, but think that Puel knows what he is doing.

[californiasaint]

* I do think there may be a longer term strategy at play here

 

I think this is the point that gets blatantly overlooked on this forum. A positive result for any PL team comes from:

 

(1) Winning the league

(2) Qualifying for Champions/Europa

(3) Winning a trophy

(4) Staying up

 

Realistically, after the departures, the Saints had relatively decent odds to achieve (4) and fairly poor odds to achieve (1), (2) and (3).

 

The question for management therefore becomes what is the best return on investment? Namely, will investing X sum substantially increase the odds of achieving (1), (2), or (3)? Or is it dead money?

 

I would much rather see the board save and build up a war chest to make a really good crack at things in a few years when the cumulative funds will have an effect, rather than piddle away the available money on players that won't significantly change outcomes, especially with a new and as of yet unproven manager at the helm.

 

At the end of the day whether the team finishes 1 spot above relegation or 1 spot below Europa is meaningless, but the level of cash saved is very important.

[Shroppie]

I agree pretty well with the OP.

 

My biggest worry at the moment is Poel. No apparent charisma and seems to be putting square pegs into round holes. Not convinced by the diamond as it doesn't make the most of our players and I want to see a DM pairing of Hojdjberg and Romeu. Just one exposes the defence.

 

Otherwise we have an unchanged defence, plenty of talent across the pitch and should be ok, but I doubt we'll finish as high as 6th.

 

 

 

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[CLOTH EARS]

I am very disappointed with this transfer window.

 

We should have been more than capable of pulling in another centre half, Right back and striker. We needed them in my opinion.

 

I predict we may finish as low as 14th. I have huge concerns ver Rodriguez and Austins fitness records. Even if Jayrod stays fit will he be the player he was? Puels system will not help us. Will Puel still be our manager come next May?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

- I am happy with the players we have brought in.

- I am sorry to have lost Mane, but he's the only one I think k we'll miss, and we had no chance to keep him.

- Personally I think we'll see Fonte regress this season so I would have liked to see us bring in a new CB.

- I think we're a little light up front, but it all depends where we're going to see Boufal play.

- We need to give Puel time. It's unrealistic to think that a new manager, in a new league, with a new formation, in a year when the Euros took place will hit the ground running. We look better than we did to start the year last season.

- Don't care where we finish in the League this season, as long as we're comfortable. It's all about the Europa for me. We're not going to finish in European places, so there's no real difference between finishing 8th and 17th.

- I'm glad we've not paid £30m for average players like Slimani, Bolasie or Sissoko.

- We've had unprecedented success over the last 7 years, so yes, those less emotionally mature fans may not be able to understand the rationale behind our strategy, but I'm sure we'll be fine.

 

UTS

Edited 1 September, 2016 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Fitzhugh Fella]

When you look at how Leicester have grasped the mettle this window you can see how they are seriously trying to build on their success whereas I think we have stood still at best and that is if our three big signings adequately replace the three main leavers. So its not disastrous but its not ambitious. Yes we haven't wasted money but money in the bank doesn't win you trophies. This could have been an historic season but I sense one of mundaneness now.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

When you look at how Leicester have grasped the mettle this window you can see how they are seriously trying to build on their success whereas I think we have stood still at best and that is if our three big signings adequately replace the three main leavers. So its not disastrous but its not ambitious. Yes we haven't wasted money but money in the bank doesn't win you trophies. This could have been an historic season but I sense one of mundaneness now.

 

How have they grasped the mettle? They've massively overpaid for very average players, whilst losing their best player.

[Dig Dig]

- I am happy with the players we have brought in.

- I am sorry to have lost Mane, but he's the only one I think k we'll miss, and we had no chance to keep him.

- Personally I think we'll see Fonte regress this season so I would have liked to see us bring in a new CB.

- I think we're a little light up front, but it all depends where we're going to see Boufal play.

- We need to give Puel time. It's unrealistic to think that a new manager, in a new league, with a new formation, in a year when the Euros took place will hit the ground running. We look better than we did to start the year last season.

- Don't care where we finish in the League this season, as long as we're comfortable. It's all about the Europa for me. We're not going to finish in European places, so there's no real difference between finishing 8th and 17th.

- I'm glad we've not paid £30m for average players like Slimani, Bolasie or Sissoko.

- We've had unprecedented success over the last 7 years, so yes, those less emotionally mature fans may not be able to understand the rationale behind our strategy, but I'm sure we'll be fine.

 

UTS

 

Not a pop at you in an unconfrontational thread but why do we group the last 7 seasons under a supposed strategy which is only really 2 years in maturity? The two L1 campaigns, the Championship and first two seasons in the prem based on a completely differen't dynamic which was largely based on player retention and gradual improvement.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Not a pop at you in an unconfrontational thread but why do we group the last 7 seasons under a supposed strategy which is only really 2 years in maturity? The two L1 campaigns, the Championship and first two seasons in the prem based on a completely differen't dynamic which was largely based on player retention and gradual improvement.

 

I'm not classing it all as the same strategy, just that the last 7 years have given fans unrealistic expectations.

[Dig Dig]

I'm not classing it all as the same strategy, just that the last 7 years have given fans unrealistic expectations.

 

Well, you kind of did in your post. Even still, I don't see how our League 1 days in 2009 have shaped the expectations of today. I think finishing 6th, 3 points off the Champions League with a good manager and team is more relevent. Why shouldn't we expect an ability to compete to that extent again? Not saying we 100% won't but it appears many are not confident.

[david in sweden]

Overall I'm fairly happy with the 'ins' but think they'll take time to bed, and the players will need time to get used to playing under the new manager. We won't have a season like we've had for the last few years but it won't be disastrous.

 

Forster/McCarthy

 

Cedric/Martina/Pied, Fonte/Yoshida, VVD/Gardos, Bertrand/Targett,

 

Hojbjerg/JWP, Romeu/Clasie, Davis/Reed

 

Redmond/JRod, Long/Austin, Boufal/Tadic

 

and a splattering of youth is still decent. I'm open minded, so long as we start picking up a few more points in the league!

 

 

taking another look at that squad line-up...it's not so bad - is it?

 

YES it does take time for new players to settle in - let alone adjust to a change of formation (Diamond), which may yet prove to be a success (given time).

 

I'm well used to reading " the regular critics " who judge a new player by; his height/weight, stats that are only stats, the size of his fee(t) and /or previous experience -

or the lack of it .....in the Prem. Nothing matters now and until we've seen them for half-a-season, it's totally ridiculous to condemn someone without giving them a chance.

 

It's just a couple of years back that those people were writing off Pelle as a failure who could only score in the Dutch league, and Mané (who someone suggested was worse than Ali Dia .

 

Rarely do players look World-class on their debut(s). I hope those same people will not seek to label Boufal "a waste of money" - if he doesn't score a hat-trick on his debut.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Well, you kind of did in your post. Even still, I don't see how our League 1 days in 2009 have shaped the expectations of today. I think finishing 6th, 3 points off the Champions League with a good manager and team is more relevent. Why shouldn't we expect an ability to compete to that extent again? Not saying we 100% won't but it appears many are not confident.

 

Because we have seen constant improvement every year, and we've now reached the glass ceiling - especially with the new managers and players that have been taken on by the top 6/7.

[Baird of the land]

I agree pretty well with the OP.

 

My biggest worry at the moment is Poel. No apparent charisma and seems to be putting square pegs into round holes. Not convinced by the diamond as it doesn't make the most of our players and I want to see a DM pairing of Hojdjberg and Romeu. Just one exposes the defence.

 

Otherwise we have an unchanged defence, plenty of talent across the pitch and should be ok, but I doubt we'll finish as high as 6th.

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah our managerial appointment and the formation he is committed to displaying despite it looking unsuited to the players currently is my big worry.

Happy with all the signings and with Jrod not going anywhere.

Think the defence is fine. Slight worry upfront with Austin and whether he can adapt as a sole attacker or as one of puel's 2 mobile attackers in diamond.

[Minsk]

* I pretty much agree with all of the OP's points.

* I think we have an inferior manager/coaching this season compared to the last one.

* I am happy with Redmond, Hojbjerg and Boafal who look to be signings with great potential. My main concern is, how long they will take to reach that potential (Boufal in particular).

* I am very concerned that we have not adequately replaced out top two scorers from last season and that our midfield now looks far less able at protecting the defence.

* It is unfortunate that Pied has picked up his injury and I am very concerned now that Frazer has an injury, as I am not at all convinced with our goalkeeping cover.

* I honestly feel we have missed an opportunity to enhance our squad on the back of qualifying for Europe. Indeed, I absolutely feel that we are now weaker than at the end of last season.

* I will make the most of this season's trip into Europe (although, unfortunately, I will probably only manage to travel to Milan) as I don't think it will be repeated for a very long time.

* I don't think we will finish in the top half this season. 12th-15th is, I feel, far more realistic. If that is the case, my main concern there would be that our better players (yes, including those who have recently signed new contracts) will then want to move away in order to repeat their European experience.

[Shroppie]

Yeah our managerial appointment and the formation he is committed to displaying despite it looking unsuited to the players currently is my big worry.

Happy with all the signings and with Jrod not going anywhere.

Think the defence is fine. Slight worry upfront with Austin and whether he can adapt as a sole attacker or as one of puel's 2 mobile attackers in diamond.

The other good news is that we have kept Forster, Bertrand, Fonte, JRod, Long, Tadic, all of whom might have been tempted away.

 

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[Sour Mash]

I agree pretty well with the OP.

 

My biggest worry at the moment is Poel. No apparent charisma and seems to be putting square pegs into round holes. Not convinced by the diamond as it doesn't make the most of our players and I want to see a DM pairing of Hojdjberg and Romeu. Just one exposes the defence.

 

Otherwise we have an unchanged defence, plenty of talent across the pitch and should be ok, but I doubt we'll finish as high as 6th.

 

 

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

How many teams play every game with two midfielders purely as defensive shields?

 

Given where we were at the end of last season, we could have been hoping for more than just saying 'should be ok' at the end of the transfer window.

[SuperSAINT]

http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14715538.COMMENT__Over_to_Puel_as_transfer_window_slams_shut/?ref=rss

[Shroppie]

How many teams play every game with two midfielders purely as defensive shields?

 

Given where we were at the end of last season, we could have been hoping for more than just saying 'should be ok' at the end of the transfer window.

Not necessarily every game, but as a solid base, particularly away against strong teams, I hope it'll still be an option.

 

We'd be in a better position to advance if there hadn't been the fallout with Koeman and then his loss. I can only hope that, in time, Poel will come good.

 

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[Jimbo]

Not sure if I am disappointed/underwhelmed by our transfer window, or the "mending what isn't broken" tactics and the general feeling of missed opportunity to kick on. As others have said, next year will be the real proof of the strategy, with no top players within 2 years of their contract ending, we shall see if we kick on then.

 

Ps. I must have missed the Everton £100m warchest being spent...by my recollection Roko only spent the money he got for the sale of Stones!

[Dig Dig]

Because we have seen constant improvement every year, and we've now reached the glass ceiling - especially with the new managers and players that have been taken on by the top 6/7.

 

But the point is that so many on here cite the 7 years constant improvement which is only relevant to the position we found ourselves in at the time and has no bearing on anyones ability to look at our squad now and say if thd balance of the team is right, the quality looks right etc etc. Yes, top teams have "taken" a lot of our players but they have given us tons of cash for the privledge. I don't think we have done enough with that to ensure we do have a sustainable model to regularly challenge for European football. We've had two summers of selling high and buying relatively low wich has nothing to do with tge five years preceding that.

[Chris27687]

'no arguments allowed' on the internet? - good one.

 

Whilst not about us i'm sure this picture will bring a smile.

 

[Supersubpuckett]

I'm concerned that all our focus seems to have been on attacking players and despite this we don't have an out and out striker in the squad of appropriate quality and physical condition that fits our new style. Also concerned at the wafer thin depth of our defensive options - simply there is no cover for any of our first picks that would fill me with confidence, in fact I'm staggered we haven't brought in a new CB. Based on what I've seen in the first two games, like I have said on another thread, I think we are in for a touch season - it won't be easy on the nerves or eye.

 

Our transfer/recruitment policy appears set against the backdrop of the dynamics of the league about 2-3 years ago - the rules have changed, there is more money around, other clubs of our kind of size are paying to keep their star players and then recruiting on top. More so than any other recent season, it seems we are slipping behind.

 

I would dearly love to be forced to eat my words later in the season but this is how I see it.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

'no arguments allowed' on the internet? - good one.

 

Whilst not about us i'm sure this picture will bring a smile.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2156[/ATTACH]

 

The blue dippers will be all over us soon bragging about the Zillions they spent on all that quality....

[West End Saint]

disappointed with the transfer window I think we needed at least one striker in I cannot see who is going to score 20 goals this season

happy with the players we did get in Hodjbjerg looks good Redmond is a decent player Boafal from what I have seen looks good but is injured and going to ACON

Not happy at the moment with the manager do not like the system and so far underwhelmed with him

I think we will finish bottom half of the league hope for a cup run but cant see it

I will make the most of Europe may be a while before we get another chance

I think we are taking a gamble we have lost some big players the system is not working

[angelman]

I look at the transfers we brought in and am happy with them. I also have to think that the transfer policy includes bringing players through from the academy. While I realise Koeman thought that they weren't good enough, do things really change so much from Pochettino's day when we had JWP, Targett, Chambers, Shaw et al coming through? I guess that when they play in the U18/U21/U23 they can individually look a bit ropey due to the lower overall standard, but when in the first XI, they slot in better. If the club think that they can integrate one or more from the development squad into the first XI, then with past experience to hand, that should be acknowledged and viewed in conjunction with the transfers in.

 

If we just buy in players the whole time rather than incorporating our own youth, then what is the point of the academy? Of course they have to be of the required level, as there is also no point bringing them through just because they are from the academy. For me the best season we have had is when we finished 8th with MP. The number of our own players and young ones at that, was brilliant to watch.

[Saint_Tony]

Poor. We just look a bit lightweight. I can accept there are many midfield destroyer type players like Wanyama about, but we are weaker without him.

 

I was never a massive fan of Pelle, but thought we might bring in a similar type player. Maybe Austin, just needs a good run of games; he seems to have been largely written off by most on here.

 

The squad to me looks weaker than last year and it's hard to argue against that assessment. I was hoping we might shift on Yoshida and JWP but it looks like they might be here a while.

 

What's most disappointing is we made our sales early, then only brought in Hojberg and Redmond and the two back up signings. Boufal looks exciting, but it seems to me Les put his eggs in one basket and spent a lot of time trying to get it over the line, and perhaps missing out on other targets.

 

I guess it's just been a bit underwhelming. I know we are trying to be a sustainable business, and accept we are never going to make the Bony/Benteke sort of signings. But winning the net spend table wins you no trophies or points. Les just needs to quit the CL and ambition talks, because we haven't shown any signs of wanting to improve on next season.

 

 

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[beatlesaint]

* I pretty much agree with all of the OP's points.

* I think we have an inferior manager/coaching this season compared to the last one.

* I am happy with Redmond, Hojbjerg and Boafal who look to be signings with great potential. My main concern is, how long they will take to reach that potential (Boufal in particular).

* I am very concerned that we have not adequately replaced out top two scorers from last season and that our midfield now looks far less able at protecting the defence.

* I honestly feel we have missed an opportunity to enhance our squad on the back of qualifying for Europe. Indeed, I absolutely feel that we are now weaker than at the end of last season.

* I don't think we will finish in the top half this season. 12th-15th is, I feel, far more realistic. If that is the case, my main concern there would be that our better players (yes, including those who have recently signed new contracts) will then want to move away in order to repeat their European experience.

 

I agree with all these points. I get the argument about replacing the players we lost on a one for one basis BUT we are in Europe, it may not happen again for a few years. I honestly believed the club would not just replace those who left but ADD to the squad in order for us to compete in Europe on a Thursday night then compete in the League on a Sunday afternoon. Are the back up players good enough to step in if a regular first teamer gets injured or is too tired for the Thursday/Sunday run of games ? In some positions yes, but in some - centre of defence being the most obvious - no.

 

I think the club have missed a trick here. Even a couple of season long loans could have made the difference. I fear we will go out of the Europa League in the group stage where a little more quality could have seen us through. Obviously I hope I'm wrong but I can see the same fate that has befallen nearly every smaller club that has gotten into the Europa League in the past few seasons befalling us as well, in other words 10-15th in the league and no cup run to speak of in Europe, League Cup or FA Cup.

 

I'm prepared for a very average season, that way I can only be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be good.

As for the manager - do I wish we still had Koeman ? Yes I do.

Edited 1 September, 2016 by beatlesaint

[Greenridge]

The club have realigned their aims with a view to long term success. If it means a small step back adjusting in order to move 2 steps forward,

 

What does that actually mean?

[SuperSAINT]

Would have added a finisher to the squad, but with Jay returning, i think we'll give him until Jan to prove he's the real deal again...If not, we'll move for a cut price Berahino, who will only have 6months left on his contract.

 

Is that your opinion or fact, Le-G?

 

#BerahinoWatch

[miserableoldgit]

I agree pretty well with the OP.

 

My biggest worry at the moment is Poel. No apparent charisma and seems to be putting square pegs into round holes. Not convinced by the diamond as it doesn't make the most of our players and I want to see a DM pairing of Hojdjberg and Romeu. Just one exposes the defence.

 

Otherwise we have an unchanged defence, plenty of talent across the pitch and should be ok, but I doubt we'll finish as high as 6th.

 

 

 

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Yes....I really wish that he had the charisma of say....Arsene Wenger for example....

 

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[Special K]

- I am happy with the players we have brought in.

- I am sorry to have lost Mane, but he's the only one I think k we'll miss, and we had no chance to keep him.

- Personally I think we'll see Fonte regress this season so I would have liked to see us bring in a new CB.

- I think we're a little light up front, but it all depends where we're going to see Boufal play.

- We need to give Puel time. It's unrealistic to think that a new manager, in a new league, with a new formation, in a year when the Euros took place will hit the ground running. We look better than we did to start the year last season.

- Don't care where we finish in the League this season, as long as we're comfortable. It's all about the Europa for me. We're not going to finish in European places, so there's no real difference between finishing 8th and 17th.

- I'm glad we've not paid £30m for average players like Slimani, Bolasie or Sissoko.

- We've had unprecedented success over the last 7 years, so yes, those less emotionally mature fans may not be able to understand the rationale behind our strategy, but I'm sure we'll be fine.

 

UTS

 

I was going to write my own post, but this sums it up exactly for me.

 

I can't understand the problems some have with Puel and the diamond system offering nothing positive after witnessing just three games.

 

I only hope we do not get long term injuries to key players with such a heavy schedule in the run up to Christmas (and hopefully beyond!).

[Shroppie]

Yes....I really wish that he had the charisma of say....Arsene Wenger for example....

 

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From what I've seen so far, that would be an improvement. ?

 

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[shurlock]

I agree pretty well with the OP.

 

My biggest worry at the moment is Poel. No apparent charisma and seems to be putting square pegs into round holes. Not convinced by the diamond as it doesn't make the most of our players and I want to see a DM pairing of Hojdjberg and Romeu. Just one exposes the defence.

 

Otherwise we have an unchanged defence, plenty of talent across the pitch and should be ok, but I doubt we'll finish as high as 6th.

 

 

 

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You make it sound like Hojbjerg is gung-ho. The fact is he's primarily a defensive player with licence to get forward much in the same way Morgan did in your preferred system of 2 DMs - you're recall the various goals Morgan scored from making runs into the box. Likewise consider Davis: he plays further back under the diamond than he did as an AM under previous systems. Again this provides cover.

 

Too much is made of formations to the exclusion of personnel and quality- I guess it helps people rationalise things they don't understand or don't want to acknowledge.

Edited 1 September, 2016 by shurlock

[tajjuk]

I feel we may have wasted a good opportunity to really push on the quality of the squad on this season.

 

I think we are two quality players short, a defensive mid and a forward/striker.

 

Pleased with the signings of Hojberg and Boufal, but I feel they are only replacements for what we have lost and we should not be sitting still. It is also disappointing to see a quality premier league striker in Bony go on loan to Stoke, when this is an area we look short of quality in and he is clearly better than anything we have.

 

It's almost like the club goes out of it's way to be a bit left field with it's signings. Again I think Wilshere would have been a calculated gamble to improve the team that we didn't seem to be interested in.

 

3 season in a row now, we have sold a lot more than we've spent and that is disappointing.

 

Very happy with the new contracts, but in reality all that does in ensure we'll get more money next year when we inevitably sell the likes of Bertrand, VVD and Forster.

 

The club is building, it's still going in the right direction, but I think this season will be the first hiccup and I think it will take us a few years to recover from it, and I think it is largely going to be caused by inaction and not capitalising on our excellent position we got to last year. Not that we will get relegated or anything.

 

You do also have to wonder whether the comments/rumours from Koeman about the club's ambition seem have a lot of truth in them.

 

Overall my excitement for the season has been dampened.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What does that actually mean?

 

It means we've spent this summers money tying people down to long term contract so we can turn down money for our best players next Summer, and can look to add quality next year in a new FFP year...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I feel we may have wasted a good opportunity to really push on the quality of the squad on this season.

 

I think we are two quality players short, a defensive mid and a forward/striker.

 

Pleased with the signings of Hojberg and Boufal, but I feel they are only replacements for what we have lost and we should not be sitting still. It is also disappointing to see a quality premier league striker in Bony go on loan to Stoke, when this is an area we look short of quality in and he is clearly better than anything we have.

 

It's almost like the club goes out of it's way to be a bit left field with it's signings. Again I think Wilshere would have been a calculated gamble to improve the team that we didn't seem to be interested in.

 

3 season in a row now, we have sold a lot more than we've spent and that is disappointing.

 

Very happy with the new contracts, but in reality all that does in ensure we'll get more money next year when we inevitably sell the likes of Bertrand, VVD and Forster.

 

The club is building, it's still going in the right direction, but I think this season will be the first hiccup and I think it will take us a few years to recover from it, and I think it is largely going to be caused by inaction and not capitalising on our excellent position we got to last year. Not that we will get relegated or anything.

 

You do also have to wonder whether the comments/rumours from Koeman about the club's ambition seem have a lot of truth in them.

 

Overall my excitement for the season has been dampened.

 

You say push on, but we finished 3 points outside the Champions League places this year. Are you saying with 2 more quality players we'd get into the Champions League this year?

[Shroppie]

You make it sound like Hojbjerg is gung-ho. The fact is he's primarily a defensive player with licence to get forward much in the same way Morgan did in your preferred system of 2 DMs - you're recall the various goals Morgan scored from making runs into the box. Likewise consider Davis: he plays further back under the diamond than he did as an AM under previous systems. Again this provides cover.

 

Too much is made of formations to the exclusion of personnel and quality- I guess it helps people rationalise things they don't understand or don't want to acknowledge.

I'll accept that formations can be fluid, but just prefer the concept of a main target striker with three in AM able to give width and rotate.

 

Hopefully the return of Bertrand will help with the width. Maybe, when we're defending Hojdjberg and/or Davis will become the second defensive midfielder.

 

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[OldNick]

When you look at how Leicester have grasped the mettle this window you can see how they are seriously trying to build on their success whereas I think we have stood still at best and that is if our three big signings adequately replace the three main leavers. So its not disastrous but its not ambitious. Yes we haven't wasted money but money in the bank doesn't win you trophies. This could have been an historic season but I sense one of mundaneness now.

thats how I see it. We have to get on with it now and try and supprt the club.

Leicester and Everton have put to bed that you cant keep your best players.

[hutch]

Why do you have to make it so black and white? Your version takes no account of the other 19 teams in the league and what they've done.

 

Push on just means invest and improve. If our squad improves, we handle the cups and fixture schedule better and seem to be moving forward then great. Maybe we'd repeat our league finish, maybe we'd be 8th or 9th, who knows. If you sell your best players and have a net transfer profit each summer you'll just be left wondering what you could have done.

So, we could push on and finish eighth. Or ninth?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I think we have done some good business. Clearly Wanyama and Mane wanted to leave, whilst everyone else of value and interest to other clubs has signed new deals. We have signed some good young players on long term deals too.

 

I wouldn't get too caught up in the net spend argument - we would have increased our wage bill considerably and I bet we are on the limits of FFP in that respect. I do believe the board have invested all they can into the team.

 

My only concern, and it has been alluded to earlier in this thread, is our new formation and whether or not our players are suitable for it. I am not impressed with it thus far - most notably the lack of chances we create and I've never seen us look so vulnerable when we lose the ball. I remember when Adkins played the diamond a few times in the Championship and it wasn't great - and that was when we were one of the best teams in the league. I am sure the team will get better at playing it but when I look at our players I don't see players who naturally fit it.

[redkeith]

Forster/McCarthy

 

Cedric/Martina/Pied, Fonte/Yoshida, VVD/Gardos, Bertrand/Targett,

 

Hojbjerg/JWP, Romeu/Clasie, Davis/Reed

 

Redmond/JRod, Long/Austin, Boufal/Tadic

 

 

That looks a resonable squad, with cover in all positions.

 

In an ideal world, I would like to have seen Reed or JWP go out on loan and someone with a bit more muscle brought in.

 

It is a bit of a gamble with the fitness of Austin and JayRod. Jay used to play in a postion thar would suit the diamond, but Austin not so much. Austin would however give us the option of changing formations.

 

Remy or Bony might have improved us, but there is no quarantee that they will return to their previous form. Think James Beattie, great for Saints and then steadilly worse at Everton and Stoke.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

thats how I see it. We have to get on with it now and try and supprt the club.

Leicester and Everton have put to bed that you cant keep your best players.

 

Leicester and Everyone both lost their most valuable players this Summer????

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Why do you have to make it so black and white? Your version takes no account of the other 19 teams in the league and what they've done.

 

Push on just means invest and improve. If our squad improves, we handle the cups and fixture schedule better and seem to be moving forward then great. Maybe we'd repeat our league finish, maybe we'd be 8th or 9th, who knows. If you sell your best players and have a net transfer profit each summer you'll just be left wondering what you could have done.

 

See, I think we have different definitions of pushing on. Mine means going forward, whereas yours seems to be to reduce the bank balance whilst also finishing lower in the league...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You can't see it? Leicester aren't going to win the league I'd imagine. But keeping most the team, investing strongly, do they have a better team and squad? I'd say so, the quality is far higher and they have some really good options. They are more likely to be up in the top 8, competing in cups for far longer by doing that. Not to mention their fans will see some good football this season and they might spring a couple of surprises in the CL. Good luck to them.

 

If Saints improve their team, perhaps will do better in the europa league, maybe we win a cup, maybe we just play better football. Ambition and pushing on is what you do before a season. The finish position comes later. If you want to make it so binary then fine, but it's not a conversation.

 

But from a business point of view, what does that give you? We spend £30m on two players, it'd take two years qualification to the CL to pay that back. Couple that with FFP that wouldn't allow us to do that anyway.

 

I get that you want to see us play good football, and have a chance of winning a cup or two, but I don't think you are taking into a count the bigger picture here.

[tajjuk]

You say push on, but we finished 3 points outside the Champions League places this year. Are you saying with 2 more quality players we'd get into the Champions League this year?

 

No, I am saying exactly what I said, reading isn't hard.