Perspective and Patience.

[SaintSeb]

Les, are you going to try and sign Wilshere?

 

Yeah, but just for the physio team to have an easily injured specimen to test experimental treatments on.

[SaintSeb]

Crisis Management Report LRRC 27, codename 'The Peasants are Revolting'. Get it on my desk first thing Monday morning, scrub that, allowing for the bank holiday first thing Tuesday morning...

 

Can I get an extension? I'm going to be writing a Saints themed version. I'll send it to you when we're inevitably bottom at Christmas. A little preview for now; my plan will include Hoddle and Sherwood taking the helm as a dynamic duo. Along with the usual management duties, they'll perform Chas and Dave hits before kick off at home games in order to boost supporter morale.

[Miltonaggro]

Can I get an extension? I'm going to be writing a Saints themed version. I'll send it to you when we're inevitably bottom at Christmas. A little preview for now; my plan will include Hoddle and Sherwood taking the helm as a dynamic duo. Along with the usual management duties, they'll perform Chas and Dave hits before kick off at home games in order to boost supporter morale.

 

It's a thankless and cut-throat world in crisis PR, but don't be so pessimistic Seb, it's a results business. If you are going to suggest Spurs rejects go with André Villas-Boas to lead the fight back in the new year.

 

Perhaps with Hoddle as resident messiah / turbulent priest / director of football...

[SaintSeb]

Having read most of people's responses (not all, I got bored, as some did reading my original post apparently!) I just want to posts some comments of my own in response:

 

1) Not Les Reed

 

2) I definitely understand people's scepticism and criticism of the new manager and system, in any time of change and uncertainty it's inevitable, especially when he hasn't yet proven himself with positive results. To write him and his system off this early as some have, however, is downright ridiculous.

 

3) Thanks to those who have responded with posts other than insults and patronising remarks.

 

4) People have talked about whether or not the club are doing their best to push us to improve, which I think is a very interesting debate. In my opinion, the club have had to handle difficult circumstances due to becoming victims of their own success. They've brought in ambitious players and managers who want to do well and have done well, but on the other side of the double edged sword they go on to feel as though they've outgrown us quicker than we'd hope. Like another poster (can't remember who) put quite well, Leicester went from being sh*t to amazing in one fell swoop, whereas we've improved more steadily so have had to deal with big teams buying the cream of our crop each season, sending us a step back after we'd taken two forwards. I think this summer the club have tried to react to this issue by bringing in a manager that they hope will be here more long term and got key players who wanted to stay tied down so there's less pressure to sell. Only time will tell if this is the case, or if Puel will last long term! I do somewhat sympathise with the idea that we could do more to keep our best players, sell them a long term vision even if it is a bit of a pipe-dream, but is it worth the risk if they truly don't want to be here? I don't know. Also, would they even come here in the first place if they thought they'd be prevented from moving on? Not sure of that either. Saints seem to be of the opinion that the way to bring in the best talent and remain sustainable is to be upfront about the possibility of selling them on, which is fair enough in my book. I understand fans wishing it wasn't this way though, but realistically there is no way of trying to break this 'glass ceiling' we find ourselves under that keeps everyone happy and is risk-free.

[Dalek2003]

Although not to the extreme some have expressed their concerns, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel a little deflated at the way the off-season/transfer window has panned out (so far).

 

After finishing in their highest ever (Premier) league position - three points off a Champions League place - qualifying for the Europa Cup group stage, signing the most lucrative kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship deals in the club's history, on top of the financial windfall of the biggest ever broadcasting contract kicking in, Saints have never been in a stronger position to build on their progress.

 

And yet, far from strengthening the team and looking to push on, we've contrived to start the season in a weaker state.

 

All the optimism built up over our storming second half of last season (second only to Leicester in points gained in 2016) has ebbed away, along with the manager, coaching staff, best attackers and midfield man mountain.

 

I've no doubt the club know what they're doing and we'll possibly have a half decent season after everything has settled down again, but the dreamers among us had probably hoped we'd aspire to more.

 

Post of the week.

[Saint-Fred]

^ I get where you are coming from. I suppose the debate is..did we buy those we bought two years ago or prior to that (Tadic, Wanyama, Pelle) by selling them the dream of selling them on? Or actually did that only really come around last summer where for the second season in a row we sold key players. Up to that point I don't think we ever planned it that way? Under Cortese it certainly wasn't the dream. The first exodus happened that summer after he left. Up to that point rumours of bids being dismissed were rife.

Up to that point (Morgan aside-who we had agreed could go) we could not have made that deal with any player as it wasn't on the table. Mane and Wanyama obviously had it in their heads that we were a stepping stone but had we kept the team together last summer and possibly added to it..then potentially we could have done what Leiicester did and maybe staying an extra season might have looked more appealing? At present why would you look at staying bearing in mind some of your best team mates will be sold and you will start the season again behind others who hadn't had the turmoil or late purchases of players?

 

I think we have just made it easy for players to expect to move on now and if we are now buying them telling them that then we have created a situation where we will struggle to ever break out of that cycle. Perhaps now we have done it (the first if those by accident) three seasons in a row the board won't ever want to?

Will it always be successful- well we have seen that even buying 200 million pounds worth of players doesn't always work..so no it can't always be successful, that's life!

[SaintSeb]

^ I get where you are coming from. I suppose the debate is..did we buy those we bought two years ago or prior to that (Tadic, Wanyama, Pelle) by selling them the dream of selling them on? Or actually did that only really come around last summer where for the second season in a row we sold key players. Up to that point I don't think we ever planned it that way? Under Cortese it certainly wasn't the dream. The first exodus happened that summer after he left. Up to that point rumours of bids being dismissed were rife.

Up to that point (Morgan aside-who we had agreed could go) we could not have made that deal with any player as it wasn't on the table. Mane and Wanyama obviously had it in their heads that we were a stepping stone but had we kept the team together last summer and possibly added to it..then potentially we could have done what Leiicester did and maybe staying an extra season might have looked more appealing? At present why would you look at staying bearing in mind some of your best team mates will be sold and you will start the season again behind others who hadn't had the turmoil or late purchases of players?

 

I think we have just made it easy for players to expect to move on now and if we are now buying them telling them that then we have created a situation where we will struggle to ever break out of that cycle. Perhaps now we have done it (the first if those by accident) three seasons in a row the board won't ever want to?

Will it always be successful- well we have seen that even buying 200 million pounds worth of players doesn't always work..so no it can't always be successful, that's life!

 

Yeah, I often wonder if it was a deliberate policy change as soon as Cortese left, or a knock on effect which the board lost control of by submitting to troublesome players (Lallana, Lovren) then had to regain it by forcing someone to stay (Schneiderlin). Either way things have worked out well so far. Time will obviously tell regarding this season.

 

Would the players still have left if Cortese hadn't? It's difficult to know, but regardless of who your chairman is, when the big clubs come calling I'd imagine it's very, very hard to turn them down. I think that even if they wouldn't have left though, the club is better off without him. Whilst he instilled a ruthlessness we needed to succeed after our rebuild, that came at the price of a loss of our identity as a club.

 

What I realistically think we can hope for, given how the last few summers have unfolded, is that we can continue to establish ourselves as a top ten club, whilst occasionally having a tilt at finishing higher, and start to sell less frequently with each year so more continuity and a stronger sense of squad identity is built. Hopefully in turn this will allow us to grow as a club on and off the pitch.

Edited 30 August, 2016 by SaintSeb
Spelling and Grammar

[tajjuk]

The closest "top six" club to us is Spurs. Their income is around £100m more than ours. Where do you suggest we find that amount of money every year?

 

It's a serious question by the way. Maybe you have a sensible suggestion.

 

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

Edited 31 August, 2016 by tajjuk

[alpine_saint]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough IMO.

 

This

[Sour Mash]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

As things currently stand, I'd probably agree with all that.

[Heisenberg]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

 

Spot on. However the transfer window hasn't closed yet and Les won't let us down - would he?

[Redslo]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

 

While this sounds plausible, it ignores some of the financial realities faced by the club. The salaries of the high earners we have shifted may well cover the incoming salaries, but there are number of pay increases that have been granted to get people to want to stay. Our payroll is undoubtedly up significantly. If it is up more than 7 million pounds, some of the transfer profit needs to be retained as profit to permit the increase payroll under the Premier League Salary cap. Also, there is the question of cash flow which is different from paper profits. Our clubs cash flow has barely been positive over the two seasons before last (last season's results are not out yet) and that was only because of net borrowing. This was very likely due in large part to the costs of the new training center which, hopefully, is mostly paid for by now. Assuming I am right about that, it will give us more flexibility in the future when combined with the increased TV money--but everyone gets the increased TV money so that is not an advantage we can exploit against other clubs in the league. And it is pretty clear our owner does not want to constantly be putting in more money--and under European FFP rules that money would be limited to under 15 million pounds a year. (That is an estimate because the information we need to calculate an exact number is not publically available and it could change due to exchange rates).

 

That being said, I agree that it would be good to strengthen at CB. On the other hand, I think the club believes it has done what it is going to do in the midfield and may decide that Rodriguez can fill the bill up front. It is too soon to judge whether this will be an improvement, a deterioration, or neither. But it is simply unreasonable to expect the club to reliably progress year after year. Every other club in the Premier League is also trying to do that and they all have lots more money too. Our only competitive edge is if we continue to be better run than most clubs and, therefore, better able to find good new players and sign them for relatively reasonable fees. You may not like that we cannot hold onto our better players when richer clubs offer them big pay increases but that is the way it is. Resisting that by refusing to sell only makes things worse. Think about how little we got for Wanyama and Clyne as opposed to Shaw, Mane, Schneiderlin, Lovren, and Lallana. That is what happens when you let the contract run down to one year. If we held onto all players until they had one year left, the system we have would not have a chance of working and we would face a relegation battle.

 

Of course, none of this proves that the new manager will end up being good or that our new players will be able to do the job or that we won't get hit by lots of injuries. All of that is possible, but our club is well run and it appears that they have taken the reasonable steps to be avoid or mitigate this problems. That is all we can reasonably ask.

[dronskisaint]

Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post

 

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

 

 

Spot on. However the transfer window hasn't closed yet and Les won't let us down - would he?

 

 

 

 

Never has, Glasgow, not yet if you check our record since he arrived?

Edited 31 August, 2016 by dronskisaint
copy not added

[Verbal Kint]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

 

I disagree. The way you've just dismissed the new deals is ridiculous frankly. I don't see any other club getting 7 or 8 first team players signing new contracts in a summer. That alone will be hugely important for us moving forwards over the next few windows as we now have complete control over when/if we sell them and what sort of fees we get.

 

In my opinion Austin, IF played correctly (a big if judging by the manager so far), can score more goals than Pelle, not to mention Rodriguez is now fit as well and if he is anywhere near his level pre-injury then he would be our best centre forward by a mile, and in today's market would be a 30 million+ player. Two important players returning from injury that weren't available for huge periods of last season, and I trust the fitness staff to have a better idea regarding their fitness than supporters who have no idea about that sort of information

 

Hojbjerg is a better player than Wanyama and he will prove it this season. Wanyama has had his big career move and the best he'll ever get is Spurs, Hojbjerg will be moving to much bigger clubs than that in a few years time. He's looked at his best IMO in the holding role (Guardiola seems to agree with that having compared him to Busquets) so he is a Wanyama replacement. An upgrade at that.

 

We have replaced Mane with Boufal and will have to see how it works out, but I think most are encouraged by that signing. And Redmond will clearly offer us a huge amount more than Juanmi.

 

I think the squad is stronger, the doubt I have is whether the manager is anywhere near as good as the last one and whether he can get the best out of them

[tajjuk]

While this sounds plausible, it ignores some of the financial realities faced by the club. The salaries of the high earners we have shifted may well cover the incoming salaries, but there are number of pay increases that have been granted to get people to want to stay. Our payroll is undoubtedly up significantly. If it is up more than 7 million pounds, some of the transfer profit needs to be retained as profit to permit the increase payroll under the Premier League Salary cap. Also, there is the question of cash flow which is different from paper profits. Our clubs cash flow has barely been positive over the two seasons before last (last season's results are not out yet) and that was only because of net borrowing. This was very likely due in large part to the costs of the new training center which, hopefully, is mostly paid for by now. Assuming I am right about that, it will give us more flexibility in the future when combined with the increased TV money--but everyone gets the increased TV money so that is not an advantage we can exploit against other clubs in the league. And it is pretty clear our owner does not want to constantly be putting in more money--and under European FFP rules that money would be limited to under 15 million pounds a year. (That is an estimate because the information we need to calculate an exact number is not publically available and it could change due to exchange rates).

 

That being said, I agree that it would be good to strengthen at CB. On the other hand, I think the club believes it has done what it is going to do in the midfield and may decide that Rodriguez can fill the bill up front. It is too soon to judge whether this will be an improvement, a deterioration, or neither. But it is simply unreasonable to expect the club to reliably progress year after year. Every other club in the Premier League is also trying to do that and they all have lots more money too. Our only competitive edge is if we continue to be better run than most clubs and, therefore, better able to find good new players and sign them for relatively reasonable fees. You may not like that we cannot hold onto our better players when richer clubs offer them big pay increases but that is the way it is. Resisting that by refusing to sell only makes things worse. Think about how little we got for Wanyama and Clyne as opposed to Shaw, Mane, Schneiderlin, Lovren, and Lallana. That is what happens when you let the contract run down to one year. If we held onto all players until they had one year left, the system we have would not have a chance of working and we would face a relegation battle.

 

Of course, none of this proves that the new manager will end up being good or that our new players will be able to do the job or that we won't get hit by lots of injuries. All of that is possible, but our club is well run and it appears that they have taken the reasonable steps to be avoid or mitigate this problems. That is all we can reasonably ask.

 

I have nothing particularly against the sales, that is the reality of football, if the player wants to go the player will eventually go.

 

I think we could have done more with Mane, at least pushed that fee up, the whole thing was too quick for my liking and when you see some of the figures quoted for fairly average and much older players you get the feeling we could have got more from Liverpool. I'd actually argue the same with Wanyama as well, considering WBA seem to be pushing for over £20 million for Behrahino who only has a year left.

 

With regards to the FFP, well £7 million is still around two players on £60k a week, and in Gaston, Osvaldo, Mane, Wanyama, Pelle going, I'd expect some of them to be have been on that amount or close to it.

 

Those 5 alone could free up another £10 million plus from the yearly wage budget, whilst the likes of Forster, VVD, Cedric, tadic etc. will only have been increases, so for example the loss of Gaston's £60k a week could cover 3 players going up by £20k a week etc.

 

When you add in the TV money, the sponsorship deals etc. there is more scope their to up the payroll, then you can add the £7 million on top of that.

 

Still think there is still plenty of scope for additional wages and even using some of the sales money to increase that further, say you took another £7 million out for wages, then there is still £15-18 million from those sales AND the additional TV money.

 

Again I am not saying to spend £100s of millions, but £20 million over our sales at this current moment would still give us around £30-40 million transfer fees, and that is taking money out from those sales to cover extra wages.

 

That's enough scope for two more Hojberg level signings and covering their wages.

[Saint-Fred]

Yeah, I often wonder if it was a deliberate policy change as soon as Cortese left, or a knock on effect which the board lost control of by submitting to troublesome players (Lallana, Lovren) then had to regain it by forcing someone to stay (Schneiderlin). Either way things have worked out well so far. Time will obviously tell regarding this season.

 

Would the players still have left if Cortese hadn't? It's difficult to know, but regardless of who your chairman is, when the big clubs come calling I'd imagine it's very, very hard to turn them down. I think that even if they wouldn't have left though, the club is better off without him. Whilst he instilled a ruthlessness we needed to succeed after our rebuild, that came at the price of a loss of our identity as a club.

 

What I realistically think we can hope for, given how the last few summers have unfolded, is that we can continue to establish ourselves as a top ten club, whilst occasionally having a tilt at finishing higher, and start to sell less frequently with each year so more continuity and a stronger sense of squad identity is built. Hopefully in turn this will allow us to grow as a club on and off the pitch.

 

I don't think the board can be criticized for investment since that initial exodus as I have never seen a team with so many 10 million pound plus players in it. Last years squad has to be the best we have ever had in terms of depth.

I also agree that there is no way you can hold onto certain players if they really want to go, especially to the top 6 clubs...its frustrating but you are right if we can get some continuity in the upper reaches of the league then maybe one day, that day may come when we hold on to everyone.

My frustration is that we sign players late in the window which may (or may not) contribute to the successive poor starts? Imagine if last year we had spent an extra 2 million on VVD to sign him three games earlier (I cant remember when he came in- it may have been before the third game but I thought it was Man Utd?) and in those games we picked up three points-enough to get us into the champions league? Easy to say in retrospect I know, frustrating all the same!

I think the club are doing all they can with wages (extending contracts) which is a massive step forward from where we were and if we could nail signings earlier so that they had a full pre-season, I think we would be in a better position..

I also think the fans would be less vocal about there concerns if there wasn't such a gap between the selling of our stars and the replacements!

[aintforever]

Why do we need to find £100 million?

 

We've sold around £65 million worth of players this summer, shifted 5 high earners off the pay roll (which should about cover the new deals), we've just got the biggest TV deal, shirt sponsorship and kit deal the club has ever had.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to spend £100 million (Liverpool & Man Utd over the last few years being a pretty good example of spending for spendings sake, not to mention spurs wasted about 80% of the money they got from Bale with only 1 or 2 players they brought in still there) but we can still improve the squad.

 

We've sold 3 quality first team players, and lost 2/3 squad players, we've brought in 3 main players in Hojberg, Boufal and Redmond who don't cover the positions we've lost really.

 

Only Boufal is potentially replacing Mane, ok you can argue Austin replaces Pelle but not really in style.

 

There is a clear Wanyama shaped hole in the squad, we still look short of cover at centre-back, we are lacking quality up front.

 

It's all very well replacing what we've lost, and we haven't even done that, but where is the improvement to the squad?

 

We don't need to spend £100 million to do that, especially when you've already sold £65 million, £20 million above what we have sold could have replaced all the losses and got in two quality players who improve the first team.

 

Not really hard, nor breaking the bank.

 

Whatever way you look at it, the squad is no better than last year and in all probability is worse. And we are still sitting on around £25 million of transfer sales whilst having record amounts of money coming into the club.

 

Not good enough and to me it seems the club are wasting a position and an opportunity they have worked so hard to get to.

 

We had a squad that finished 6th last year, a couple of quality additions to that squad in the right areas and the right players and we'd have a chance to do that again and maybe, just maybe push on that little bit further or compete better in the cups.

 

But instead of spending the summer improving the squad, the club have spent the summer repairing the damage to the squad and it's debatable whether we've even got back to the same level of squad.

 

This. With the extra commitment of the Europa league we needed an improved squad just to tread water in the league.

 

Our plan this year appears to be hope a couple of perma-injured strikers stay fit and pretend playing in the Europa League doesn't require a bigger squad.

[Batman]

This. With the extra commitment of the Europa league we needed an improved squad just to tread water in the league.

 

Our plan this year appears to be hope a couple of perma-injured strikers stay fit and pretend playing in the Europa League doesn't require a bigger squad.

 

look how indifferent the first half of last season was and we only played 2 games less than we are due to.

[Hodgey]

Verbal Kint views echo mine - this squad in theory is strong - but it does require a manager bringing out the best in them given many are young and inexperienced. I would be supremely confident if RK was still in charge and excited about what we are about to see. With CP it's more fingers crossed - for me we still don't have the players to play his system.

[saint1977]

Verbal Kint views echo mine - this squad in theory is strong - but it does require a manager bringing out the best in them given many are young and inexperienced. I would be supremely confident if RK was still in charge and excited about what we are about to see. With CP it's more fingers crossed - for me we still don't have the players to play his system.

 

Pretty much this - still think we are a big striker light - but the squad is good but jury is out on Puel for me. Needs to build the system around what he has rather than what he would like as he doesn't have the funds available. Redmond on the right please and let's give Austin and J Rod some flipping service. Diamonds belong in a jewellers' shop.

[derry]

what everybody is ignoring, VVD's opinion on Saturday, ITKs view that Fonte's problem was with the system apart from the MU rumour. Redmond has been saddled with the new Thierry Henry which he patently isn't. Austin is a penalty area striker and will get goals there not out wide and covering the below par full backs. Long is Long, he has to play to his strengths. Redmond has been made the can't drop coaches favourite but is clueless up front out of position. He is a talented runner from wide and a big asset. Hojbjerg is potentially outstanding. VVD is the defensive foundation.

 

I would think that what is troubling a lot of people is the apparent disunity and inability to play a simple system or is there more to it with important players not co-operating because they just don't think it is an improvement. Everybody has to buy into it or it has to be ditched there can be no discord or it just won't work.

[Turkish]

look how indifferent the first half of last season was and we only played 2 games less than we are due to.

 

We get a by in the second round of the league Cuo so its actually only one game more than before Christmas last year. Yet people are wetting themselves because we got so many games to play. One frigging game more than last season, one.

[Dalek2003]

We get a by in the second round of the league Cuo so its actually only one game more than before Christmas last year. Yet people are wetting themselves because we got so many games to play. One frigging game more than last season, one.

 

Well that is some comfort a t least.

[aintforever]

We get a by in the second round of the league Cuo so its actually only one game more than before Christmas last year. Yet people are wetting themselves because we got so many games to play. One frigging game more than last season, one.

 

I expect playing a full Europa League group between Sept and Dec puts a bit more pressure on the squad than a few qualifiers at the end of July - August. Oh and last season we failed at that miserably, getting knocked out by migit land and starting with bad results while we were in the Europa.

[st alex]

FF, of course we are less strong. Even if you can compare like for like player wise, the likes of Liverpool aren't going to pay us £35m for a player that is inferior to one that we pick up for half that price as they can just go and do that themselves and by-pass us completely.

 

That's exactly what they did with Lovren. They have a habit of overpaying and of paying for players with Premier League experience.

 

We've just signed Boufal for considerably more than we paid for Mane, so it's a bit early to assume he's not as good/won't be as good.

[LGTL]

That's exactly what they did with Lovren. They have a habit of overpaying and of paying for players with Premier League experience.

 

We've just signed Boufal for considerably more than we paid for Mane, so it's a bit early to assume he's not as good/won't be as good.

 

Yep and give it two years, and if Boufal is any good he'll be off too, and we all know it.

 

#wemarchon

[whoateallthepies]

I expect playing a full Europa League group between Sept and Dec puts a bit more pressure on the squad than a few qualifiers at the end of July - August. Oh and last season we failed at that miserably, getting knocked out by migit land and starting with bad results while we were in the Europa.

 

Pleased other people can play spot the difference. No comparison to last season - 6 regular games, 4 against strong opposition, Thursday/Sunday - and we will get injuries given that much pressure on the body. Clubs that we need to take points from to guarantee we stay up won't have these challenges. Will be amazed if PL form isn't badly hit and the squad turns out to be really thin; but I'll wait until December before admitting I was right/wrong to be concerned.

[Redslo]

I have nothing particularly against the sales, that is the reality of football, if the player wants to go the player will eventually go.

 

I think we could have done more with Mane, at least pushed that fee up, the whole thing was too quick for my liking and when you see some of the figures quoted for fairly average and much older players you get the feeling we could have got more from Liverpool. I'd actually argue the same with Wanyama as well, considering WBA seem to be pushing for over £20 million for Behrahino who only has a year left.

 

With regards to the FFP, well £7 million is still around two players on £60k a week, and in Gaston, Osvaldo, Mane, Wanyama, Pelle going, I'd expect some of them to be have been on that amount or close to it.

 

Those 5 alone could free up another £10 million plus from the yearly wage budget, whilst the likes of Forster, VVD, Cedric, tadic etc. will only have been increases, so for example the loss of Gaston's £60k a week could cover 3 players going up by £20k a week etc.

 

When you add in the TV money, the sponsorship deals etc. there is more scope their to up the payroll, then you can add the £7 million on top of that.

 

Still think there is still plenty of scope for additional wages and even using some of the sales money to increase that further, say you took another £7 million out for wages, then there is still £15-18 million from those sales AND the additional TV money.

 

Again I am not saying to spend £100s of millions, but £20 million over our sales at this current moment would still give us around £30-40 million transfer fees, and that is taking money out from those sales to cover extra wages.

 

That's enough scope for two more Hojberg level signings and covering their wages.

 

The 7 million is now much TV money can be used to increase wages. Doing these calculations without inside information is difficult but you can't ignore the cash flow issue. Wages have to be paid in cash, not profits.

 

I don't think the board can be criticized for investment since that initial exodus as I have never seen a team with so many 10 million pound plus players in it. Last years squad has to be the best we have ever had in terms of depth.

I also agree that there is no way you can hold onto certain players if they really want to go, especially to the top 6 clubs...its frustrating but you are right if we can get some continuity in the upper reaches of the league then maybe one day, that day may come when we hold on to everyone.

My frustration is that we sign players late in the window which may (or may not) contribute to the successive poor starts? Imagine if last year we had spent an extra 2 million on VVD to sign him three games earlier (I cant remember when he came in- it may have been before the third game but I thought it was Man Utd?) and in those games we picked up three points-enough to get us into the champions league? Easy to say in retrospect I know, frustrating all the same!

I think the club are doing all they can with wages (extending contracts) which is a massive step forward from where we were and if we could nail signings earlier so that they had a full pre-season, I think we would be in a better position..

I also think the fans would be less vocal about there concerns if there wasn't such a gap between the selling of our stars and the replacements!

 

Celtic wanted to make the group stage of the Champions League. VVD was not available until that was resolved. 3 million more pounds would hardly have convinced Celtic to give us him early.

 

Yep and give it two years, and if Boufal is any good he'll be off too, and we all know it.

 

#wemarchon

 

Except we signed him to a 5 year contract giving us three years--at least in theory.