Puel

[mrfahaji]

Mr Fahaji ... you are an idiot

 

Thanks New Forest Steve. I'm just posting what I know to be the case (the first bit at least, the second paragraph is my opinion but don't see what's so far fetched about it). I'm not looking for doom and gloom, in fact when people are constantly looking for negatives it annoys me. Maybe this place isn't somewhere to post info as you get immediately shot down for it.

[Heisenberg]

We haven't, the players aren't happy with the system and don't understand why we are persisting with it. Don't think they like Puel too much and one or two have already had a bit of a dust up.

 

 

FFS... Worried this would happen but sooner than I thought TBH

 

Do you have anymore info? Players involved?

 

Thanks for posting btw

[New Forest Steve]

Thanks New Forest Steve. I'm just posting what I know to be the case (the first bit at least, the second paragraph is my opinion but don't see what's so far fetched about it). I'm not looking for doom and gloom, in fact when people are constantly looking for negatives it annoys me. Maybe this place isn't somewhere to post info as you get immediately shot down for it.

Pray tell, Which players aren't happy about the system? Who are the players that don't like Puel? Who is the one (or two ...) who's had a dust up with him? How do you know all this?

Edited 2 September, 2016 by New Forest Steve

[New Forest Steve]

FFS... Worried this would happen but sooner than I thought TBH

 

Do you have anymore info? Players involved?

 

Thanks for posting btw

 

Now look what you've done Mr Fahaji ..... you really shouldn't encourage him

[Dalek2003]

TBH anything but a heavy defeat will be a bonus against Arsenal. Our season will be defined by taking points off our near rivals, such as Swansea, Hull, Bournemouth,Sunderland.

[New Forest Steve]

Our season will be defined by taking points off our near rivals, such as Swansea, Hull, Bournemouth,Sunderland.

 

..... you mean Leicester, West Ham, Spurs and Everton ?

[Whitey Grandad]

TBH anything but a heavy defeat will be a bonus against Arsenal. Our season will be defined by taking points off our near rivals, such as Swansea, Hull, Bournemouth,Sunderland.

 

Sunderland and Hull are not near.

[New Forest Steve]

Pray tell, who are the players that don't like Puel? Who is the one (or two ...) who's had a dust up with him? How do you know all this?

 

OK I'll start then ........

Tadic had a training ground dust up with Puel.

Source .... Spoof rumour site

 

Your go

[mrfahaji]

OK I'll start then ........

Tadic had a training ground dust up with Puel.

Source .... Spoof rumour site

 

Your go

 

 

It doesn't mean we are destined for a relegation scrap this year, but at the very least it suggests that if we don't start seeing results from this system, and if Puel is too stubborn to change it, then we might have a problem. Or Puel might have a problem.

 

It's not from a rumour site. I know this sounds like an easy option but I'm not comfortable revealing the specific details. I have heard that a number (I don't know how many and who, maybe the entire squad) of players are not feeling this new system, and like many of the fans, wonder why we are not playing a system that suits the players we have. On top of that, I know of one player that has been especially critical of it. It wasn't Tadic.

 

I don't claim to be generally ITK about things at the club but once in a while I do hear something which seems relevant to the discussion boards. Lots of people have questionned the body language of the players, some people think others are reading into it etc, and this snippet supports one of the views. Doesn't mean things can't change and improve.

 

Regarding the new system, I hoped it was being trialled as an alternative to use against certain opponents, but we don't seem to show any sign of reverting to the previous one. Failing that, I hoped (still hope) that this new formation is revolutionary and when the players grasp it we'll be great. But, it must be said that it is looking questionable at the moment. I wonder whether our quiet transfer window reflects the current unease with how things are going so far as well. We were apparently tracking Boufal for 18 months - presumably then we had identified him being a good fit for our old system - so why have we still signed him? Maybe Puel wanted to get some more players in to play his tactics, but the board are reluctant to fill the squad with players suited to a system that we might not be continuing with? I'm probably jumping to conclusions on this bit, but it does make you wonder if there's more than meets the eye.

[SFCMatt]

FWIW I've heard the same from a family member of one of our English players that several members of the squad are not completely on board with the new management team.

 

In my opinion Puel could be a good manager for us but i have some serious issues with how he is going about it. As a department head (which is what Puel is), he has come into a job where the department he is running has been very successful for 3 years. Why change? When a business has been successful as we have been, change needs to be implemented slowly and it seems like a very big jump we've taken when we could have been better off by taking small steps to gradually adapt to this style of play. There was never any need to change this suddenly and as has been previously mentioned, the clubs philosophy of playing the same way throughout the age groups seems to have gone out the window. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

So why has he changed the way we play? Is it because he feels that the best way to compete on multiple fronts is to play this way? If so, then we have to give him time because we won't find out until we are playing Europa Lge, Premier Lge and the domestic cups. My worry is that it may well be too late by then. Is the change of system down him being unable to play another way? If it is then you have to question the club (specifically Les Reed) as to why he was hired.

 

I also have serious concerns about why this club is letting a relatively unknown manager cut his teeth in this league with what was the 6th best club in England. We could have hired a much safer pair of hands and tracked Puel's development at other clubs before hiring him. What other clubs do you know in our position would have done that? Dyche, Karanka, Howe, Sanchez Flores, Pellegrini and god forbid even Moyes all have experience in England and although Karanka had never managed in the PL he is one of the best young coaches in world football at the moment. Christ he's even managed to get the best out of Gaston which is something Poch couldn't even do and I rate Poch as high as any manager i've ever seen at Saints. Others such as Garcia would have been risks but more exciting risks. I just feel a bit meh about Puel.

 

I also hear a lot of rhetoric from the club about the 'pathway' but a player like Harry Reed is no closer to the 1st team than he was last year as we now only have one holding midfielder in the side rather than two therefore limiting his potential game time. (direct consequence of hiring Puel) I saw Valery in pre season and he looked promising yet the signing of Pied has shown the club don't believe he's ready yet. We've kept hold of Gardos and Yoshida (not exactly set the world alight although not bad players) yet sold Turnbull and still Jack Stephens seems to be stagnating. The reality is the pathway doesn't work in this League unless your really special and those players will break through at any club regardless of manager. Do you think Sunderland or Crystal Palace would have left Shaw in the youth team? We have a very good academy which produces very good talent but if the talent isn't there there is no pathway regardless of manager so lets not kid ourselves that he'll come in and suddenly play kids and comletely revitalise the academy. Do you honestly trust so little in the manager that took us to 7th then 6th that you believe he can't identify talent or lack of talent in our academy and that a new manager will find a hidden gem from somewhere?

 

Lastly the language barrier is an issue. I'm sure it will get better but as fans you want to connect with the public face of the club which like it or not is Puel. At the moment not only do i feel disconnected from him but i can't understand him which alienates the fan base. Why couldn't we have got him a translator? I felt much more connected to Poch even though he rarely even tried to speak English whilst he was here. How this affects the players i don't know but i do know i wouldn't be over the moon if my boss barely spoke my language. It's not time to do anything drastic yet and Arsenal is a free hit for us as we rarely get anything at the Emirates anyway but in the Northam against Sunderland there were rumblings of discontent and i fear a poor result against Swansea could easily turn the atmosphere toxic. That's something the club can't afford to let happen.

Edited 3 September, 2016 by SFCMatt

[New Forest Steve]

It doesn't mean we are destined for a relegation scrap this year, but at the very least it suggests that if we don't start seeing results from this system, and if Puel is too stubborn to change it, then we might have a problem. Or Puel might have a problem.

 

It's not from a rumour site. I know this sounds like an easy option but I'm not comfortable revealing the specific details. I have heard that a number (I don't know how many and who, maybe the entire squad) of players are not feeling this new system, and like many of the fans, wonder why we are not playing a system that suits the players we have. On top of that, I know of one player that has been especially critical of it. It wasn't Tadic.

 

FWIW I've heard the same from a family member of one of our English players that several members of the squad are not completely on board with the new management team.

 

In my opinion Puel could be a good manager for us but i have some serious issues with how he is going about it. As a department head (which is what Puel is), he has come into a job where the department he is running has been very successful for 3 years. Why change? When a business has been successful as we have been, change needs to be implemented slowly and it seems like a very big jump we've taken when we could have been better off by taking small steps to gradually adapt to this style of play. There was never any need to change this suddenly and as has been previously mentioned, the clubs philosophy of playing the same way throughout the age groups seems to have gone out the window. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

So why has he changed the way we play? Is it because he feels that the best way to compete on multiple fronts is to play this way? If so, then we have to give him time because we won't find out until we are playing Europa Lge, Premier Lge and the domestic cups. My worry is that it may well be too late by then. Is the change of system down him being unable to play another way? If it is then you have to question the club (specifically Les Reed) as to why he was hired.

 

I also have serious concerns about why this club is letting a relatively unknown manager cut his teeth in this league with what was the 6th best club in England. We could have hired a much safer pair of hands and tracked Puel's development at other clubs before hiring him. What other clubs do you know in our position would have done that? Dyche, Karanka, Howe, Sanchez Flores, Pellegrini and god forbid even Moyes all have experience in England and although Karanka had never managed in the PL he is one of the best young coaches in world football at the moment. Christ he's even managed to get the best out of Gaston which is something Poch couldn't even do and I rate Poch as high as any manager i've ever seen at Saints. Others such as Garcia would have been risks but more exciting risks. I just feel a bit meh about Puel.

 

I also hear a lot of rhetoric from the club about the 'pathway' but a player like Harry Reed is no closer to the 1st team than he was last year as we now only have one holding midfielder in the side rather than two therefore limiting his potential game time. (direct consequence of hiring Puel) I saw Valery in pre season and he looked promising yet the signing of Pied has shown the club don't believe he's ready yet. We've kept hold of Gardos and Yoshida (not exactly set the world alight although not bad players) yet sold Turnbull and still Jack Stephens seems to be stagnating. The reality is the pathway doesn't work in this League unless your really special and those players will break through at any club regardless of manager. Do you think Sunderland or Crystal Palace would have left Shaw in the youth team? We have a very good academy which produces very good talent but if the talent isn't there there is no pathway regardless of manager so lets not kid ourselves that he'll come in and suddenly play kids and comletely revitalise the academy. Do you honestly trust so little in the manager that took us to 7th then 6th that you believe he can't identify talent or lack of talent in our academy and that a new manager will find a hidden gem from somewhere?

 

Lastly the language barrier is an issue. I'm sure it will get better but as fans you want to connect with the public face of the club which like it or not is Puel. At the moment not only do i feel disconnected from him but i can't understand him which alienates the fan base. Why couldn't we have got him a translator? I felt much more connected to Poch even though he rarely even tried to speak English whilst he was here. How this affects the players i don't know but i do know i wouldn't be over the moon if my boss barely spoke my language. It's not time to do anything drastic yet and Arsenal is a free hit for us as we rarely get anything at the Emirates anyway but in the Northam against Sunderland there were rumblings of discontent and i fear a poor result against Swansea could easily turn the atmosphere toxic. That's something the club can't afford to let happen.

There's so many flaws in your argument that I really can't be bothered to pick thru them.

 

Tell you what tho', it's not the system, the manager or the squad that'll jeopardise our season. The biggest threat to our club right now is from the "if it ain't broke blah blah don't like change" brigade and their efforts to stir up mutiny against a very highly respected and forward thinking coach after three friggin' games .... just because he's not hip. What's wrong with you, give him a chance, lets see what he brings to the table. The destabilising effect of any witch hunt to drive him out of the club now would be massive and the fallout would make the system change seem like a minor blip.

 

That's me done anyway, I've had it with this thread.

Edited 3 September, 2016 by New Forest Steve

[SFCMatt]

I'm a big enough person to admit when i'm wrong so please, enlighten me in which part is flawed. Like any fan i hope that things get better. I've never asked for a witch hunt. What's undeniably true is teams get most of their points at home and so far against two poor teams we've been lacklustre. If we don't beat Swansea that's nearly a sixth of our home games gone with potentially (assuming we lose to Arsenal) 2 or 3 points on the board, from the exact same home fixtures last year we had 7. That's ignoring United and Arsenal. We had another 4 points from those two games. Are you seriously trying to tell me you've enjoyed the start of the season?

As for being one of the most highly respected forward thinking coaches, i'd argue that if that was the case then there would have been plenty of other clubs sniffing around Puel and there's no way we would have got him, especially for free. He may well be all those things in France but sometimes things don't work out. Look at LVG at Utd and compare that to his Barca or Bayern days. Even just before he took charge at Utd he did very well with the Dutch national team. The PL is such a different animal but it's my opinion and i genuinely hope he does turn it around as i completely agree that sacking him would destabilise the club and btw cost us a shed load in compo and to get a new manager in.

[Wade Garrett]

Much more sided with SFCMatt on this argument. I don't rate our system, don't rate his substitutions or his team selections.

 

That said, if it doesn't improve, and the players don't buy into it, then there will only be one outcome.

 

I thought Puel was a poor appointment at the time, but obviously I want him to do well. Give him a few more games.

[St Louis]

Are we really just giving our managers 3 games these days? I'm not suggesting they were good draws, but we have only lost one of those three games! Come on, let's give the man and his methods a bit of time.

FWIW I happen to know that the squad were very unhappy towards the end with Koeman and he wasn't popular amongst the squad, and general feeling in the squad is much better now, so much so that the core have signed new long term contracts (which several wouldn't have done under the old regime!)

[SFCMatt]

Please don't make out there was a mutiny within the squad before Koeman left, it's simply untrue. A few were unhappy, one of which has left (Mane) and was always going to leave, one of which would still be here regardless (Targett) and Tadic would have left if Koeman were still here. It's also simply untrue that the core of the squad extending had anything to do with Puel. JWP, Virgil and Fraser signed before Koeman left, Ryan and Shane were still on holiday and had been negotiating with the club before Koeman left and Steven Davis signed before Puel had taken over. Tadic and Cedric i'll give you although Cedric would never have had a new deal had Portugal done worst in the Euro's.

In terms of squad happiness, i've heard very different things from you. Confusion about what the new manager expects both on the pitch and at training is what i heard and this is the squad rather than a few isolated individuals.

[Saint-Fred]

Are we really just giving our managers 3 games these days? I'm not suggesting they were good draws, but we have only lost one of those three games! Come on, let's give the man and his methods a bit of time.

FWIW I happen to know that the squad were very unhappy towards the end with Koeman and he wasn't popular amongst the squad, and general feeling in the squad is much better now, so much so that the core have signed new long term contracts (which several wouldn't have done under the old regime!)

 

Not doubting you but which players wouldn't have signed? VVD, JWP and Forster at least signed before RK left?

[Dangermouth]

I'm a big enough person to admit when i'm wrong so please, enlighten me in which part is flawed. Like any fan i hope that things get better. I've never asked for a witch hunt. What's undeniably true is teams get most of their points at home and so far against two poor teams we've been lacklustre. If we don't beat Swansea that's nearly a sixth of our home games gone with potentially (assuming we lose to Arsenal) 2 or 3 points on the board, from the exact same home fixtures last year we had 7. That's ignoring United and Arsenal. We had another 4 points from those two games. Are you seriously trying to tell me you've enjoyed the start of the season?

As for being one of the most highly respected forward thinking coaches, i'd argue that if that was the case then there would have been plenty of other clubs sniffing around Puel and there's no way we would have got him, especially for free. He may well be all those things in France but sometimes things don't work out. Look at LVG at Utd and compare that to his Barca or Bayern days. Even just before he took charge at Utd he did very well with the Dutch national team. The PL is such a different animal but it's my opinion and i genuinely hope he does turn it around as i completely agree that sacking him would destabilise the club and btw cost us a shed load in compo and to get a new manager in.

 

This is mostly your 'opinion' based on your 'feelings', which I personally don't give a schitt about. Then you decide that you want a 'risks' (sic) manager because even though it might go tits-up it will make you 'feel' excited.

 

Maybe we should put you in charge of the budget for the NHS and Armed Forces while we're at it so you can show how effective such decision-making is?

 

If you have some facts and can draw logical, intelligent conclusions from them I'm sure we would all be interested in considering what you have to say. Otherwise, as a rather 'new' poster; are you a skate on a wind-up?

[St Louis]

Not doubting you but which players wouldn't have signed? VVD, JWP and Forster at least signed before RK left?

 

I can't claim to know whether certain players would or wouldn't have signed (aside from Tadic who I know would have left had Koeman stayed), I do know for a fact that there isn't this unrest with the new regime that people are speculating about. I'm sure if we are still struggling after 10 games then maybe there will be unrest in the camp, but we are 3 games in!?

 

First game of the season always throws up odd results, then we lost away at Man Utd after playing well and then a poor draw at home to Sunderland. Maybe we are on a slippery slope, but we don't know that for sure after 3 games, and a new system will take more than 3 competitive games to adapt to, this isn't a Football Manager game.

[St Louis]

I just know Tadic wouldn't have signed, and that several others were unhappy too, so I'm speculating a little but it's great so many players have committed to the long term when they maybe wouldn't have before the managerial change. My source is a senior director in the club btw.

[Saint-Fred]

I can't claim to know whether certain players would or wouldn't have signed (aside from Tadic who I know would have left had Koeman stayed), I do know for a fact that there isn't this unrest with the new regime that people are speculating about. I'm sure if we are still struggling after 10 games then maybe there will be unrest in the camp, but we are 3 games in!?

 

First game of the season always throws up odd results, then we lost away at Man Utd after playing well and then a poor draw at home to Sunderland. Maybe we are on a slippery slope, but we don't know that for sure after 3 games, and a new system will take more than 3 competitive games to adapt to, this isn't a Football Manager game.

 

Not saying there is un rest but you did state several players wouldn't have signed if RK stayed so it seemed that you had some knowledge of who it was or it's meaningless statement? It's the same as those saying they know there is un rest in the camp but they can't name the players, it's absolutely irrelevant.

[Saint-Fred]

I just know Tadic wouldn't have signed, and that several others were unhappy too, so I'm speculating a little but it's great so many players have committed to the long term when they maybe wouldn't have before the managerial change. My source is a senior director in the club btw.

 

Ok so VVD, Forster and JWP signed before RK left so it's not them.

 

So the director is saying Tadic, Bertrand, Long, Cedric and Davis wouldn't have signed if RK stayed?

Tadic..there has been rumours and he was in/out of the side so maybe...Cedric..RK didn't seem to fancy him so maybe....

But Long Davis and Bertrand? Really? I think he is trying. To put a positive spin on it to be honest and pulling your leg.

 

Actually Davis signed before Puel arrived so I can't see him being one of them who wasn't going to sign? If he was considering his options and not going to sign as he was unhappy with the previous manager he surely would wait to see who the new manager was?

Edited 3 September, 2016 by Saint-Fred

[Dalek2003]

The way people disrespect each other when an opinion is posted is ridiculous. The post written by Farahaji is controversial, but well considered and well written.

 

It is open to discussion. This is a football site open to football discussion. If you just want the basic facts go to something like the BBC site or the official club site. Why the do people have to insert venom into their posts directed at the poster ? It is no wonder that people are discouraged from posting.

 

One of the worst to suffer is Alpine, yet he makes some very good points that are often direct and very much intended to start a debate.

[eelpie]

..... you mean Leicester, West Ham, Spurs and Everton ?

 

I do like optimists sometimes

[ALWAYS_SFC]

The way people disrespect each other when an opinion is posted is ridiculous. The post written by Farahaji is controversial, but well considered and well written.

 

It is open to discussion. This is a football site open to football discussion. If you just want the basic facts go to something like the BBC site or the official club site. Why the do people have to insert venom into their posts directed at the poster ? It is no wonder that people are discouraged from posting.

 

One of the worst to suffer is Alpine, yet he makes some very good points that are often direct and very much intended to start a debate.

 

 

Shame it does`nt discourage you, go on do another one about 17th/relegation...we all love those discussion points

[Dalek2003]

 

Shame it does`nt discourage you, go on do another one about 17th/relegation...we all love those discussion points

 

My anxieties are real. I don't see why I cannot express them. I do not feel that Saints can ever guarantee their league status until we are mathematically safe. Saints are a club that always have to put the avoidance of relegation at the top of their agenda. We have a relatively small number of really class players and squad and it does not take much to undermine things. Who can forget what happened to Svensson and that 'rabbit hole' of a pitch etc.

[SFCMatt]

If you actually read what i said, there were plenty of safer options, i did list them. If we were going to risk it then Garcia was a much safer risk. Don't pick out certain points to suit your argument but convieniently ignore everything else. As for going tits up, well it's not exactly rosy in the garden at the moment is it? Nothing else i wrote apart from feeling meh about Puel is feelings but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Just another point Dangermouth, what exactly is a forum for if not giving opinions? I suggest if you don't want to know peoples opinions then a forum really isn't the best place for you.

Edited 3 September, 2016 by SFCMatt

[Dalek2003]

If you actually read what i said, there were plenty of safer options, i did list them. If we were going to risk it then Garcia was a much safer risk. Don't pick out certain points to suit your argument but convieniently ignore everything else. As for going tits up, well it's not exactly rosy in the garden at the moment is it? Nothing else i wrote apart from feeling meh about Puel is feelings but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Just another point Dangermouth, what exactly is a forum for if not giving opinions? I suggest if you don't want to know peoples opinions then a forum really isn't the best place for you.

 

You are right. It's good to have a 'rant' and it's good that a site has a range of different opinions. The rules of the site are clear, avoid personal comments etc. There are many posters here who like to demonise posters who have a different opinion from themselves. Yet, by becoming personal, they are the ones breaking the site rules.

 

Your post and others I have just mentioned are different but perfectly acceptable in terms of a discussion board IMO. Again, Alpine very rarely 'personalises' his comments and yet he receives more than his fair share from some very sanctimonious posters.

[SFCMatt]

This is mostly your 'opinion' based on your 'feelings', which I personally don't give a schitt about. Then you decide that you want a 'risks' (sic) manager because even though it might go tits-up it will make you 'feel' excited.

 

Maybe we should put you in charge of the budget for the NHS and Armed Forces while we're at it so you can show how effective such decision-making is?

 

If you have some facts and can draw logical, intelligent conclusions from them I'm sure we would all be interested in considering what you have to say. Otherwise, as a rather 'new' poster; are you a skate on a wind-up?

 

 

If you actually read what i said, there were plenty of safer options, i did list them. If we were going to risk it then Garcia was a much safer risk. Don't pick out certain points to suit your argument but convieniently ignore everything else. As for going tits up, well it's not exactly rosy in the garden at the moment is it? Nothing else i wrote apart from feeling meh about Puel is feelings but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Just another point, what exactly is a forum for if not giving opinions? I suggest if you don't want to know peoples opinions then a forum really isn't the best place for you.

So as a new poster that automatically makes me a skate? I'm not going to dignify it with a response, there's nothing i can do to prove whether i'm a Saints fan, a skate, a Bournemouth fan or a PSG fan so there's very little point in replying to that. Read my post above #260, if you don't agree then that's fine but i'm not going to argue about it. Ultimately we are all Saints fans and as such have the best for the club at heart we just have differing opinions as to how to go about that. Hence the forum.

[Dalek2003]

If you actually read what i said, there were plenty of safer options, i did list them. If we were going to risk it then Garcia was a much safer risk. Don't pick out certain points to suit your argument but convieniently ignore everything else. As for going tits up, well it's not exactly rosy in the garden at the moment is it? Nothing else i wrote apart from feeling meh about Puel is feelings but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Just another point, what exactly is a forum for if not giving opinions? I suggest if you don't want to know peoples opinions then a forum really isn't the best place for you.

So as a new poster that automatically makes me a skate? I'm not going to dignify it with a response, there's nothing i can do to prove whether i'm a Saints fan, a skate, a Bournemouth fan or a PSG fan so there's very little point in replying to that. Read my post above #260, if you don't agree then that's fine but i'm not going to argue about it. Ultimately we are all Saints fans and as such have the best for the club at heart we just have differing opinions as to how to go about that. Hence the forum.

 

Your posts are fine. Don't be discouraged.

[Batman]

Much more sided with SFCMatt on this argument. I don't rate our system, don't rate his substitutions or his team selections.

 

That said, if it doesn't improve, and the players don't buy into it, then there will only be one outcome.

 

I thought Puel was a poor appointment at the time, but obviously I want him to do well. Give him a few more games.

as said, it is a race on what gets binned first

 

the diamond or the manager.

 

 

 

if Puel persists largely with this formation, he wont last much beyond xmas

[Ken Tone]

Genuine question ..... Are any other premier league teams playing the diamond formation this year ? Or did any last year? And indeed, how common is it internationally? I seem to recall England using it a while ago.

[Heisenberg]

Genuine question ..... Are any other premier league teams playing the diamond formation this year ? Or did any last year? And indeed, how common is it internationally? I seem to recall England using it a while ago.

 

Sherwood tried it at Villa and Swansea also in small segments last season

 

Juventus were successful with it but had there own unique touches added

[Batman]

Genuine question ..... Are any other premier league teams playing the diamond formation this year ? Or did any last year? And indeed, how common is it internationally? I seem to recall England using it a while ago.

 

sherwood and hodgson are fans of the diamond

[SFCMatt]

Genuine question ..... Are any other premier league teams playing the diamond formation this year ? Or did any last year? And indeed, how common is it internationally? I seem to recall England using it a while ago.

 

I don't know about any other teams but we used it sporadically during NA's double promotion seasons. He used it as more of a shock tactic though to catch the opposition slightly off guard. I think most teams in the top flight nowadays (not all of them) play a variation of the 433 whether that be 451 or 4231 but you could argue that we do too. Our tactic as far as I can see is 41212 which is obviously fairly close to 433 however we have been playing a 4231 which is very different from the diamond.

 

No idea about international teams or foreign teams i'm afraid.

[SFCMatt]

sherwood and hodgson are fans of the diamond

 

Kinda says it all really doesn't it?

[Saint Garrett]

sherwood and hodgson are fans of the diamond

 

They played it differently though, I've never seen a club play the "diamond" where the two strikers are no-where near the middle of the pitch for the majority of the game, and our most attacking player is the #10, essentially it's a false 9 formation with strikers playing out wide, and the attacking midfielder playing as the 9. It's just odd.

[Strangely Brown]

Whilst Puel would not have been my first choice, I think we have to accept the fact that those closer to the club than us clearly made the appointment based on a number of criteria that they believed would keep the momentum of the club moving forward.

 

Whilst what I have seen so far in the pre-season friendlies and the PL games hasn't produced the results I had hoped for, to trash It all after three league games seems a bit daft. I cannot believe that those involved in the appointment process would not have been aware that Puel would have suggested/endorsed a different playing style and system so the club new fairly early on that we were likely to embrace something new and the players would have to adapt.

 

Since the PL came into being there have been many different systems used and deployed by different managers and we are no different and we have to accept the fact that in doing this results may not be instant.

 

Keep the faith people we have come on a very successful journey and I can't imagine we are going to lose it all on one appointment and a different system.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

My anxieties are real. I don't see why I cannot express them. I do not feel that Saints can ever guarantee their league status until we are mathematically safe. Saints are a club that always have to put the avoidance of relegation at the top of their agenda. We have a relatively small number of really class players and squad and it does not take much to undermine things. Who can forget what happened to Svensson and that 'rabbit hole' of a pitch etc.

 

Ha ha ha ha...you have posted your ridiculous 17th/relegation waffle for years.... and it has been proven to be nothing but trolling

as it is just about a far from realistic as it could be....

[Graffito]

Genuine question ..... Are any other premier league teams playing the diamond formation this year ? Or did any last year? And indeed, how common is it internationally? I seem to recall England using it a while ago.

 

Rodgers at Liverpool when they were runners up. They had Suarez and Sturridge, Coutino etc. A poor defence but quality going forward.

[eelpie]

The way people disrespect each other when an opinion is posted is ridiculous. The post written by Farahaji is controversial, but well considered and well written.

 

It is open to discussion. This is a football site open to football discussion. If you just want the basic facts go to something like the BBC site or the official club site. Why the do people have to insert venom into their posts directed at the poster ? It is no wonder that people are discouraged from posting.

 

One of the worst to suffer is Alpine, yet he makes some very good points that are often direct and very much intended to start a debate.

 

It's a sad, distasteful trait among too many that they seem to think big of themselves by posting venom. They just demean themselves.

If they can't tell the difference between controversial debate and personal insult it has to be up to the hard pressed mods to have to weed them out. Why should posters be bullied off the forum by them?

[Ken Tone]

Thanks for the response to my diamond question. I can't say i like what I've seen of it so far this season, but then I'm not the manager !

[Convict Colony]

sherwood and hodgson are fans of the diamond

 

as are Juventus and Dortmund...

 

If only people read more about the diamond the would realise it isn't really massively hard to implement, maybe the issue is that we just have some players who are struggling to learn it ie the UK ones.

 

"This works both offensively and defensively, and it demands tactical intuition and smarts from the players."

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2432605-breaking-down-footballs-in-vogue-formation-the-midfield-diamond

Edited 3 September, 2016 by Convict Colony

[Convict Colony]

as said, it is a race on what gets binned first

 

the diamond or the manager.

 

 

 

if Puel persists largely with this formation, he wont last much beyond xmas

 

[Sour Mash]

Why the fuss about Puel or the diamond?

 

Our performances have been no worse than at the start of the previous seasons.

[hypochondriac]

Why the fuss about Puel or the diamond?

 

Our performances have been no worse than at the start of the previous seasons.

You keep repeating this but I'm afraid I have to disagree. We've been much less of a threat than last year. Of course there is room for improvement but in my opinion our performances have been worse.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Why the fuss about Puel or the diamond?

 

Our performances have been no worse than at the start of the previous seasons.

 

Agreed

[SFCMatt]

as are Juventus and Dortmund...

 

If only people read more about the diamond the would realise it isn't really massively hard to implement, maybe the issue is that we just have some players who are struggling to learn it ie the UK ones.

 

"This works both offensively and defensively, and it demands tactical intuition and smarts from the players."

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2432605-breaking-down-footballs-in-vogue-formation-the-midfield-diamond

 

I'm not disagreeing with you on how good the diamond can be, i just want to ask you or anybody else whether in the last 5 to 10 years any English club has been successful using it? I honestly don't know the answer. As has been said before the PL is very different to any other european league. Maybe your right in saying that UK players are less tactically flexible, i'd certainly say that's been proved right when looking at the England team. That's exactly the reason that you hire people with experience in the league your playing in because they know the limitations of domestic players and where they excel. It's about getting the best out of the players and no one can deny that at the moment we're not. Whether that's the system, new manager, players under performing or a combination of all 3, it doesn't really matter. It's Puel's job to make sure he gets the best from the team. I'm willing to give it time, i'm just not sure how much time i'm willing to give it.

[Saints foreva]

You keep repeating this but I'm afraid I have to disagree. We've been much less of a threat than last year. Of course there is room for improvement but in my opinion our performances have been worse.

 

We were worse in the first three games of last season imo.

 

Newcastle 2-2 - They dominated large amounts of the match, we came to life after Long got the equaliser. We got lucky they were so poor that they couldn't kill the game off at 2-1.

Everton 0-3 - A walk in the park, one of the worst league performances at home we've had since our return to the Premier League.

Watford 0-0 - A dull game, we created nothing and Ighalo somehow missed two sitters.

 

Obviously another poor home performance against FC Midtjylland to throw into the middle of that lot.

[S-Clarke]

We were worse in the first three games of last season imo.

 

Newcastle 2-2 - They dominated large amounts of the match, we came to life after Long got the equaliser. We got lucky they were so poor that they couldn't kill the game off at 2-1.

Everton 0-3 - A walk in the park, one of the worst league performances at home we've had since our return to the Premier League.

Watford 0-0 - A dull game, we created nothing and Ighalo somehow missed two sitters.

 

Obviously another poor home performance against FC Midtjylland to throw into the middle of that lot.

 

The Newcastle game wasn't that bad, in all seriousness I was frustrated we didn't win it. Mane had two major chances at the end of that game to make it 3-2 to us.

[Saint-Fred]

We were worse in the first three games of last season imo.

 

Newcastle 2-2 - They dominated large amounts of the match, we came to life after Long got the equaliser. We got lucky they were so poor that they couldn't kill the game off at 2-1.

Everton 0-3 - A walk in the park, one of the worst league performances at home we've had since our return to the Premier League.

Watford 0-0 - A dull game, we created nothing and Ighalo somehow missed two sitters.

 

Obviously another poor home performance against FC Midtjylland to throw into the middle of that lot.

 

You'd think we would learn and actually do something different so we don't always have a bad start wouldn't you?