Puel

[Avenue_Saint]

Is 9-3 a legit poster now? I still have my doubts...

[themasoon]

I think the Euros hurt Puel as a lot of his players weren't there to adapt to this style of play, which doesn't allow us to hoof it up to Pelle. Also the two up top with 1 at the tip of the diamond when fluid doesn't differ much from a 4-3-3 formation. It was frustrating to see our players static at times with a lack of movement but I believe that will come, we don't need to panic just yet I remember it taking Pochettino about 6 games to win his first one in the league and he wasn't too bad.

[Mowgli]

Give it time. Every manager we have had introduced a new style of playing. Some more subtle than others. Koeman did brilliantly last year with the team but he was losing a few players in terms of support (Tadic, JWP, Reed and Targett spring to mind). We were also struggling against the lower table sides who just sat 11 behind the ball and played out for a drawer. Without disagreeing too much with any of the views expressed, a new formation to deal with that is definitely required (he may well revert to last seasons formation for the bigger games).

 

So where is it not working? For me the diamond involves the central defenders going wide to cover for the wing backs as they press forward. That is one area we are not handling well. I would expect Romeu to drop back in that situation to a become a third centre back on that phase of play but he isn't as far as I can see so there is a hole to exploit. The diamond also needs us to break quickly and we're not yet doing that (didn't last season either to be fair). Even when we get forward, there are not enough bodies in the box to make the most of chances created. The opposition gets organised and we are forced to pass it back and shoot from outside the area reducing our success rate. And the diamond requires a technically gifted creative attacking midfielder at the top of the diamond. Tadic has been put there but is struggling to adapt which is a shame because he is clearly very talented.

 

Him, Davis (a bit lost in his new role but trying hard to adapt) and Romeu are, for me, the three that are still adapting to the new system. The others seem to get it OK.

 

Bertrand and Boufal (hopefully) will give us further options though I'd still give Tadic, Romeu and Davis more time to adapt. Maybe J Rod and Long or Austin with Redmond playing behind in the role currently offered to Tadic would work. And maybe we can get away with the lack of height in that defensive midfield role and just have someone who is good at breaking up play - Davis, Clasie or JWP.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the diamond yet but I suspect as long as we don't stick rigidly to it against all opposition, it will eventually make us harder to steal points off.

[Avenue_Saint]

Sobering thoughts spoke with honesty. I think you speak for many.

 

You must lead a really sad life dalek. Your trolling is testament to the obvious. You get your kicks in life through rises from people on a football forum.

 

Don't worry, all will be ok Chappy.

[Batman]

Puel has the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low grade bank clerk

[redkeith]

The defence should be the same as last year, so no real problems there, but having only one DM ( Romeu ) can leave them exposed. As for the rest of the midfield, Peire can play anywhere, although he did get caught in posession a couple of times yesterday.

 

The wide midfield in this system should be for box to box players. JWP, Claise, Reed and Davis are not DM's and they are certainly not AM's to sit a t the top of the diamiond. That only leaves box to box as an option, or reverting to the Koeman system where the AM does a lot of defensive work and doesn;t create so much.

 

Up front we have options, with 2 or 3 players that could get into double figures, if fit. The real problem seems to be giving these forwards freedom to get wide if they want to. Hopefully that can br worked on in the next 2 weeks.

 

Don't kid youselves that it was all perfect under Ron. If you scan back to last season there were lots of complaints about Tadic on the right and Mane's position too.

 

Puel did change the game in the 2nd half, by swopping Pierre over to the left side and offer Targett some protection, and the Tadic substitution did bring Redmond into the game more.

[Dalek2003]

You must lead a really sad life dalek. Your trolling is testament to the obvious. You get your kicks in life through rises from people on a football forum.

 

Don't worry, all will be ok Chappy.

 

Hmmm. I always try and avoid making personal comments. I am not sure on this occasion whether you really understood my comments. Try reading the post again.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Heard through a friend of Merrington, that Puel has only 6 weeks to prove himself.. Apparently. How true this is who knows.

[adrian lord]

Heard through a friend of Merrington, that Puel has only 6 weeks to prove himself.. Apparently. How true this is who knows.

 

From today? Or season start?

[derry]

Systems are playing players in a formation that complements and suits the players available, having a natural blend and chemistry that gets the best out of the players. Imposing a system unfamiliar and possibly unpopular by playing players where they aren't comfortable and underperforming, lacking confidence and devoid of blend is stupidity. The first scenario is the sign of a good man manager the second is going to lead to an implosion unless there is a rethink and reverts to scenario one.

[Roger]

He doesn't speak for me. Seems a very hysterical rant, knee jerking on stuff he doesn't really have a full insight on.

 

I can remember games under Koeman and MP where we played a hell of a lot worse - a hell of a lot. Way too much over the time tripe is being written about this formation. Just seems an easy thing for people to lump at the manager when they don't really have the full insight or knowledge.

 

I used to really respect your views, but it seems these days you just blindly agree with everything managers or the board does.

[badgerx16]

This has to be post of the week. Suspect you are close to the truth. Similar thing when we appointed 'Wurzel' after the expected appointment of Hoddle fell through.

Is there a Saintsweb version of Godwin's Law, whereby any thread will sooner or later have Dalek mentioning Hoddle ?

[Viking Warrior]

A great manager has charisma, character, an air of confidence. He lights up the room when he enters.

 

Koeman, Pochettinio, Mourinho.....

 

This guy doesn't have it.

 

Andy , fair comment , how do you know he hasn't got charisma ?

I was speaking to a Bayern Munich Fan on Friday , we watched their game against Bremen , I asked him about their managers , he said that while guardiola was a good tactician there was unrest amongst the team with him in charge , that's why they were not too fussed when he went to City .

Anderlotti on the other hand is the complete opposite and is player orientated , I asked for his thoughts about Puel . He believes he is a good manager and will do well for Saints . It will take a little time .

 

Okay some of you think he's hopeless , I'm not so sure , I don't care if some of you think he comes across as a dour character , but he is players orientated like anderlotti .

Oh as for the diamond shape , if you get it right and everyone understands their role . It is very effective. I use it for hockey , but we do need to have a plan d and E .. Give the team and the manager a chance instead of all this negativity ,

Finally fonte needs to sort out his head or give the one he has back to lovren

[Mowgli]

Heard through a friend of Merrington, that Puel has only 6 weeks to prove himself.. Apparently. How true this is who knows.

 

So the board is only 6 games away from forking out some £12m in compensation and going through the upheaval of yet another managerial change? Doesn't sound likely to be honest. Merrington himself had a whole season even though it took him 11 games to secure his first win (3 points after 10 games). Only once in the whole season did he achieve back to back wins. Can you imagine the meltdown if the forum had been around in those days. The only vent we had then was fanzines...

[themasoon]

Systems are playing players in a formation that complements and suits the players available, having a natural blend and chemistry that gets the best out of the players. Imposing a system unfamiliar and possibly unpopular by playing players where they aren't comfortable and underperforming, lacking confidence and devoid of blend is stupidity. The first scenario is the sign of a good man manager the second is going to lead to an implosion unless there is a rethink and reverts to scenario one.

 

I agree that in a perfect world that the players will easily slot into a new system however it may be the case that Puel and the coaches see a better way of playing and a style that will improve us but for us to adapt to it we may require time. Almost like 1 step back and 2 steps forward. As Puel would likely see this as a long term "project" he would want to equip the team to be the best in the long run rather than look for immediate results and playing the same way as before without ever improving and evolving significantly.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

From today? Or season start?

 

Start of the season.

[eelpie]

He doesn't speak for me. Seems a very hysterical rant, knee jerking on stuff he doesn't really have a full insight on.

 

I can remember games under Koeman and MP where we played a hell of a lot worse - a hell of a lot. Way too much over the time tripe is being written about this formation. Just seems an easy thing for people to lump at the manager when they don't really have the full insight or knowledge.

 

True, I don't have the insight or knowledge of the manager, but I have eyes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Heard through a friend of Merrington, that Puel has only 6 weeks to prove himself.. Apparently. How true this is who knows.

 

I bet Merringtons mate wants 4-4-2 , with wide men & managed by an Englishman .

[Lord Duckhunter]

Start of the season.

 

Load of pony

[Batman]

So the board is only 6 games away from forking out some £12m in compensation and going through the upheaval of yet another managerial change? Doesn't sound likely to be honest. Merrington himself had a whole season even though it took him 11 games to secure his first win (3 points after 10 games). Only once in the whole season did he achieve back to back wins. Can you imagine the meltdown if the forum had been around in those days. The only vent we had then was fanzines...

 

who knows what severance package has been agreed before hand

 

what happened when Merrington was here has absolutely no relevance to today

[ratio_decidendi]

Yes, we all recognise the depressing factors indicating that Les Reed's most recent managerial appointment isn't working out. To name a few that have already been mentioned:

 

• Puel's inflexible approach to the diamond formation which has robbed us of our 'Southampton Way' and (in my very unlearned tactical opinion) does not make the best out of current squad of players;
  
• very few points picked up from games we should be (on the basis of last season) winning. I am not comparing game for game here (i.e. we drew against Sunderland last season) but simply on our strong run of form towards the end of last season;
  
• and dissent/poor body language amongst various players.
  

However, it is also possible to name various reasons as to why things may be looking up, most importantly incoming player acquisitions, infrastructure investments, and player contractual extensions.

 

If I was to come to an opinion, it would probably be this: it is far too early to make an absolute judgment on Puel or the club's season either way. We are only three games into the Premier League, in a season which will be defined by so, so much more (Europe, cup runs, etc. etc.), and which will last for another 9 or so months.

 

I would advise fans - specifically posters on this forum - to act with some patience before coming to an opinion. Be it a negative or a positive one, again, it simply is far too early to make a concrete prediction. Do not let emotional thinking cloud rationality.

 

With that said, I would also advise fans - if they absolutely must voice an opinion - to veer on the edge of positivity. This is for twofold reasons. First, the team will always play better without fans booing. In all walks of life, negativity is self-fulfilling, and we would be far more responsible to not admonish but to support the team in the face of adversity. Second, positivity will be a whole lot more useful for fans sake. I'm only 24, but if I all I thought about was how depressing football was, and how Saints were likely to go down, and how nothing ever works out, then I doubt I'd leave the flat in the morning. Judging on when most people post, I assume that the majority on this forum are in their 'golden years' - do yourself a favour and cheer up, please, lest you give yourself a heart attack.

 

[New Forest Steve]

Yes, we all recognise the depressing factors indicating that Les Reed's most recent managerial appointment isn't working out. To name a few that have already been mentioned:

 

• Puel's inflexible approach to the diamond formation which has robbed us of our 'Southampton Way' and (in my very unlearned tactical opinion) does not make the best out of current squad of players;
  
• very few points picked up from games we should be (on the basis of last season) winning. I am not comparing game for game here (i.e. we drew against Sunderland last season) but simply on our strong run of form towards the end of last season;
  
• and dissent/poor body language amongst various players.
  

However, it is also possible to name various reasons as to why things may be looking up, most importantly incoming player acquisitions, infrastructure investments, and player contractual extensions.

 

If I was to come to an opinion, it would probably be this: it is far too early to make an absolute judgment on Puel or the club's season either way. We are only three games into the Premier League, in a season which will be defined by so, so much more (Europe, cup runs, etc. etc.), and which will last for another 9 or so months.

 

I would advise fans - specifically posters on this forum - to act with some patience before coming to an opinion. Be it a negative or a positive one, again, it simply is far too early to make a concrete prediction. Do not let emotional thinking cloud rationality.

 

With that said, I would also advise fans - if they absolutely must voice an opinion - to veer on the edge of positivity. This is for twofold reasons. First, the team will always play better without fans booing. In all walks of life, negativity is self-fulfilling, and we would be far more responsible to not admonish but to support the team in the face of adversity. Second, positivity will be a whole lot more useful for fans sake. I'm only 24, but if I all I thought about was how depressing football was, and how Saints were likely to go down, and how nothing ever works out, then I doubt I'd leave the flat in the morning. Judging on when most people post, I assume that the majority on this forum are in their 'golden years' - do yourself a favour and cheer up, please, lest you give yourself a heart attack.

 

 

so much common sense, from one so young

[Kenilworthy]

One thing that causes me concern is that the reason for appointing Puel was apparently to bring our young players through, unlike say Pellegrini. But we are not seeing any real signs of that so far. I don't want a team full of youth players, but Reed should be getting a chance.

[The9]

Your thoughts please?

For me, why change a system to that has got us to last eight in last four years, saying we have too many fixtures because of Europa League.

We played a high pressing game for the last four years. Finishing top 8th.

For me, he is drab, shows no emotion or leadership. Is he out his depth?

Poch and Koeman oozed so much confidence when they came in, I haven't seen this with Puel.

Van Dijk post match interview today body language did not look good, not happy.

 

Ok, well firstly we didn't really play a high pressing game for the past two years, so...

 

He's managed a team to the Champions League semi-finals. That's as good as anyone we've had as a manager.

 

Van Dijk is entitled to be p155ed off, we've conceded in 14 successive competitive matches... and Puel was only manager for 3 of those.

 

I don't think the system suits the personnel at the moment, but they clearly have plans to add a playmaker, and if that's the new system the manager wants people to learn, then it makes sense to teach that and use it even without the players in place. They can always fall back on 4231 if necessary but without Pelle that probably doesn't work that well either, which is probably why the system was changed anyway. It *might* work with Austin there but he's not going to win or hold up the balls forward needed to link the supporting attackers.

 

Can't take all the credit for suggesting we play Rodriguez to make the defence think about having to defend anything except through balls of course, though I didn't see anyone else suggesting it on here.

[The9]

One thing that causes me concern is that the reason for appointing Puel was apparently to bring our young players through, unlike say Pellegrini. But we are not seeing any real signs of that so far. I don't want a team full of youth players, but Reed should be getting a chance.

 

Clasie isn't even getting a game, Ward-Prowse isn't starting, why would Reed get a game when all he's done in 2 years is run around laying in late tackles? Romeu and Hojbjerg are perfectly capable and the latter has looked like one of the bright spots so far.

[The9]

exactly Moyes viewed our 'system and after 10 minutes changed his set up higher back line did the trick for them then Puel waited until 70 mins to change

 

Puel got lucky yesterday , yes the boos were for the ref but with the body language of the players, the papers reaction that we look muddled the boo's will soon be the universal language of football no one wants to hear

 

Practice and training thru out the players career that has led them to a top six prem team js ingrained in them so they act instinctively , they are now being made to think differently and current it appears are not all at the same point along the track of this new system they are appearing in positions alien to them , when we see misplaced passes and strong discussions between players they arn't happy with the system or each others comprehension of it

 

going to be a long international break to mull over these 3 results

 

Players are constantly trained and retrained in systems and tweaks to deliver results against specific opposition threats all of the time. They're all used to being "made to think differently". Misplaced passes are NOTHING to do with systems.

[New Forest Steve]

One thing that causes me concern is that the reason for appointing Puel was apparently to bring our young players through, unlike say Pellegrini. But we are not seeing any real signs of that so far. I don't want a team full of youth players, but Reed should be getting a chance.

 

Puel's only been here 5 minutes, have a bit of patience. Undoubtedly Reed deserves a chance and I daresay his time will come during the season. However there's no point bringing in the youngsters until the first team are looking comfortable with the system. There's lots of games to play this season, if they're any good they'll get the their chance.

[New Forest Steve]

 

Practice and training thru out the players career that has led them to a top six prem team js ingrained in them so they act instinctively , they are now being made to think differently and current it appears are not all at the same point along the track of this new system they are appearing in positions alien to them , when we see misplaced passes and strong discussions between players they arn't happy with the system or each others comprehension of it

 

Players are happy enough to move on to other clubs where they need to adapt to different systems and personnel.

[New Forest Steve]

What about Sir Alf and Ted Bates hardly charismatic

 

or Wenger or Mancini or Ancelotti or Pellegrinni or Hiddink or ......

[Toussaint]

I don't think our results would have been any better had Koeman still been here but without Pelle and Mane.

 

I really don't think we should be judging the manager after his first 3 games, but we can judge the squad and it's seriously lacking in quality and goals right now.

 

110% agree, we have lost 3 massive on field presences for this season.

[saint lard]

Rumours circulating that Puel is on his way out.

He had a huge bust up with Tadic.....and wanted him transfer listed.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Lots of friction in the camp.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Batman]

Rumours circulating that Puel is on his way out.

He had a huge bust up with Tadic.....and wanted him transfer listed.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Lots of friction in the camp.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Where you hear this from?

[saint lard]

Where you hear this from?

 

Girlfriend of an under 23 player.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[david in sweden]

Puel has the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low grade bank clerk

 

.....bet you he's paid more than " a low grade bank clerk".

[david in sweden]

or Wenger or Mancini or Ancelotti or Pellegrinni or Hiddink or ......

 

..or David Moyes? .....but let's not mention LvG.

[Batman]

Girlfriend of an under 23 player.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Obvious it is not a happy camp. VvD gave a pretty honest interview to be fair

[New Forest Steve]

..or David Moyes? .....but let's not mention LvG.

 

.... let's not

[SuperSAINT]

Obvious it is not a happy camp. VvD gave a pretty honest interview to be fair

 

Player power rules these days. If the club are super-watertight about info leaking and that rumour is true, they probably won't be very happy. It's only been 3 games though FFS.

[striker]

Obvious it is not a happy camp. VvD gave a pretty honest interview to be fair

 

True. When I hear a player say "well the coach wants us to play a different way, so...", to me that is telling. He didn't say "we are playing" or "its a good system we just need to work". He said "the coach", which IMO means he's forcing it on them and they don't like it.

[Saints Fan Dan]

Still say give him time. But something's not right, you can feel it. Puel has the demeanor that David Moyes had at Man United 3 years ago, that look of "what am I doing here?".

[SuperSAINT]

Still say give him time. But something's not right, you can feel it. Puel has the demeanor that David Moyes had at Man United 3 years ago, that look of "what am I doing here?".

 

We probably aren't very far away from a "Next Manager" speculation thread....

[Sour Mash]

We probably aren't very far away from a "Next Manager" speculation thread....

 

I assume you're kidding?

[SuperSAINT]

I assume you're kidding?

 

On here?! I'm surprised there isn't one already!

[New Forest Steve]

We probably aren't very far away from a "Next Manager" speculation thread....

 

Now now SS .... don't fan the flames !!

[david in sweden]

On here?! I'm surprised there isn't one already!

give it time... the next game is almost 2 weeks away....and a lot can happen over a weekend in the football world........

[CB Fry]

If it genuinely isn't working I would expect the club to be more ruthless, more quickly than some might think.

 

I would think Puel has got some time to make this work but if it clearly isn't working by the next international break then the club will act.

 

Will be a massive admission of failure on Les's part and he will have some explaining to do on why he didn't recommend a more proven manager with experience of working in more than one league - hello AVB and especially Garcia.

 

But there's still time for Peulis to win us all over.

[Lukee]

Puel, as stated in his interviews, is trying to change our style of play for a reason- if we want consistent European football and succeed in it then we have to get used to playing every 3 days and controlling the game. I admit that our striking options and goal threat haven't been the best but that's not the fault of the diamond or Puel, it's our attacking players being off form. From what I've heard too Puel was amazing with player bonding and from pictures on the website etc it's evident he likes to get stuck in during training. Finally, new contracts being signed show players aren't getting disillusioned with the system; they're just not used to it yet. It will come good.

[Wade Garrett]

Rumours circulating that Puel is on his way out.

He had a huge bust up with Tadic.....and wanted him transfer listed.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Lots of friction in the camp.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Body language of the players and the VVD interview suggests it isn't a happy camp.

[Heisenberg]

Could be a blessing in disguise.

[adrian lord]

The VVD interview was ominous. We can speculate all we like on here but that was hard evidence from the heart of the team - shockingly frank and not subject to the usual media-trained filter of platitudes and cliches.

 

I don't think that this Puel odyssey will end happily I'm afraid.