Puel

[Saint Troy]

You make it sound like we lose players to injuries picked up in games week in, week out. We don't. And we didn't in the seasons we weren't implementing a ridiculous rotation policy either.

 

I agree that Puel has been let down by the club a bit in the transfer market, but the rotation policy, formation and tactics are all down to him. He decided to come in and fundamentally change the way we play and approach games, and it isn't working. In fact we're doing worse now than the start of the season when the players were still 'learning'.

 

Give him the rest of the season but there has to be improvements.

 

And before Pamplemouse (??) jumps all over this with some pish comment about Swansea - getting rid of one manager after a year wouldn't be turning us into a club that sacks managers every two minutes. It would just be called admitting a mistake...!

 

I fully agree on giving him the season - my only issue is giving him the season and not spending in Jan. Im not a fan of spending in Jan so i guess im saying he should begiven the start of next season and the chance to show us his style with some of his own players. There is such a difference in games that we know that it can work even if it isnt the majority of the time at the moment. I genuinely feel as though ive seem some really slick stuff but it needs to players to carry it out. Playing, driving and looking fwd is a big big floor of our current midfield crop and that needs to be addressed before the manager is in my opinion. Im happy keeping the likes of JWP ticking over as he is still youngish but we need to surround them with a good blend of potential and quality and its the latter thats missing for claude at the moment. Imagine being saints boss currently, yes we could get more midfielders in to the box (for what good that does when its JWP!) but it cant be great knowing you have mainly average (prem) attackers on the bench and noone whose going to put a team to the sword

[Dangermouth]

I suspect few of you can remember the last five minutes let alone a few months ago. Here’s a link:

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14820386.Saints_star_faced_a_choice______it_was_either_adapt_and_learn_or_sit_on_the_sidelines_/?ref=rl&lp=5

 

Now SFC say that they bought Redmond because he fitted the template and there was no need to have a manager because the system in place identified players that would fit regardless of what a manager wanted. He patently didn’t fit the new system that didn’t follow the previous template, however, as the article states.

 

So there’s a nice inconsistency in transfer policy. It doesn’t matter what the manager wants because he fits the system and the manager is allowed the ultimate choice over which player out of a number that fit the system he would like. This assumes the player wants to come to Saints obviously. Yet this wasn’t the case here. In addition, Puel has been quoted as saying, I believe, that he wanted Boufal because the team didn’t have a dribbler and his system required one in order to unlock stubborn defences i.e. the playing in front of teams that we see is ineffective. I take it that is why Sims and Redmond feature as they can do this to some extent. It is clear, however, that Puel has been supported in the transfer market as we bought Boufal and, it would appear, he is not one of those players that would fit the existing template (e.g. Redmond who was either bought as the next Thierry Henry by Reed and Co or a winger as he had always been up until he joined the club and was told he was not to be one. You will note from the interview above incidentally that Redmond himself considers he is/was a winger). I don’t propose to go into this further but do suggest that those who have made the assumptions that many have in this thread *ought* to actually take a look at what they’re doing and perhaps do so differently. If they wish to come to the same conclusions and then explain why they have then all well and good.

[Whitey Grandad]

You paid £600 to watch the team you support. There's no guarantees that come with a season ticket stipulating what type of football we'll play or the results we'll get. It's like paying for a gig. It could be the best one of that band's tour, or one where they go through the motions before slipping quietly off stage to a smattering of applause.

 

At one point tonight I noticed just how many old people were sat near me. They've been through years of ups and downs, of scintillating performances and horrible defeats. But they are still there, supporting the team because that's what they do. And that's what we should all do.

 

I am one of those old people. I support the team but I don't support the manager because I don't like his style of football.

[Whitey Grandad]

No, because the advantages of getting a team settled and playing regularly together (at this moment) outweighs any possible risk of injury.

A player can get injured on the training ground after all, and didn't Kelvin injury himself dropping a jar of peanut butter on his toe? !

 

Absolutely this. A settled team is more effective than a Team of fitter individuals.

 

Franny Bengali injured his elbow clearing up leaves in his garden.

[benjii]

I think the "boring" thing is getting quite boring.

 

I didn't go last night and am quite prepared to accept that it may have been utter ****e.

 

However, I watched the highlights and saw us have at least three or four very good goalscoring opportunities (in addition to the goal we did score). One came from a backpass but the others came from good play from us. If one or two of those had been buried, I'd wager there would be a lot fewer "bored" people and a much more positive spin on the performance.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Absolutely this. A settled team is more effective than a Team of fitter individuals.

 

Franny Bengali injured his elbow clearing up leaves in his garden.

 

I think you'll find the correct spelling of his name is Frandy Bengali.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I think the "boring" thing is getting quite boring.

 

I didn't go last night and am quite prepared to accept that it may have been utter ****e.

 

However, I watched the highlights and saw us have at least three or four very good goalscoring opportunities (in addition to the goal we did score). One came from a backpass but the others came from good play from us. If one or two of those had been buried, I'd wager there would be a lot fewer "bored" people and a much more positive spin on the performance.

 

It's all about goals. People don't seem to know what they're watching. Here is the average conversion rate in the Premier League (not including Saints):

 

5093 shots

581 goals

Average Conversion rate of 11.41%

 

Our current conversion rate is:

313 shots

19 goals

Average Conversion rate of 6.09%

 

If we even had the AVERAGE conversion rate in the Premier League, we'd have scored 36 goals this season, good enough to be 6th best in the League, and only currently outside the current top 5.

 

We NEED a new striker, we don't seem to need a new Manager. The fault here is with Reed and the board for not purchasing a striker in the Summer.

[Whitey Grandad]

I think you'll find the correct spelling of his name is Frandy Bengali.

 

I think I've eaten there

 

(Bloody iPad auto-correct. If only I could read what I actually typed)

[Whitey Grandad]

I think the "boring" thing is getting quite boring.

 

I didn't go last night and am quite prepared to accept that it may have been utter ****e.

 

However, I watched the highlights and saw us have at least three or four very good goalscoring opportunities (in addition to the goal we did score). One came from a backpass but the others came from good play from us. If one or two of those had been buried, I'd wager there would be a lot fewer "bored" people and a much more positive spin on the performance.

 

No, what you saw was all that there was. It was an awful game.

[Lets B Avenue]

When was the last time we were still in 2 cups in the middle of Jan?

 

 

1979.

 

(Or 1992 if you include the ZDS)

[Lord Duckhunter]

1979.

 

(Or 1992 if you include the ZDS)

 

So he's done what over a dozen other managers haven't . Including managers with players like Lallana, Mane, Big Vic, Shaw, Morgan, Rickie, Clynne, & Toby?

 

 

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[Noodles34]

we are always in one cup come January anyway, very loose argument.

[Lord Duckhunter]

we are always in one cup come January anyway, very loose argument.

 

We weren't this time last season

 

 

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[sotonjoe]

It's all about goals. People don't seem to know what they're watching. Here is the average conversion rate in the Premier League (not including Saints):

 

5093 shots

581 goals

Average Conversion rate of 11.41%

 

Our current conversion rate is:

313 shots

19 goals

Average Conversion rate of 6.09%

 

If we even had the AVERAGE conversion rate in the Premier League, we'd have scored 36 goals this season, good enough to be 6th best in the League, and only currently outside the current top 5.

 

We NEED a new striker, we don't seem to need a new Manager. The fault here is with Reed and the board for not purchasing a striker in the Summer.

 

Theres no place for rationalism here. Be gone with your vile witchcraft.

[Dangermouth]

So he's done what over a dozen other managers haven't . Including managers with players like Lallana, Mane, Big Vic, Shaw, Morgan, Rickie, Clynne, & Toby?

 

 

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Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Southampton_F.C._season

 

 

 

"It's all about goals. People don't seem to know what they're watching. Here is the average conversion rate in the Premier League (not including Saints):

 

5093 shots

581 goals

Average Conversion rate of 11.41%

 

Our current conversion rate is:

313 shots

19 goals

Average Conversion rate of 6.09%

 

If we even had the AVERAGE conversion rate in the Premier League, we'd have scored 36 goals this season, good enough to be 6th best in the League, and only currently outside the current top 5.

 

We NEED a new striker, we don't seem to need a new Manager. The fault here is with Reed and the board for not purchasing a striker in the Summer. "

 

Fraid that simply shows that we are currently running at about half the conversion rate of the norm. Doesn't show what you think it does. Try an analysis of minutes played per player per opportunity per goal inside/outside the box (including and excluding penalties) to also consider the type of player, the type of system, the type of goal, the time of goal, other factors (e.g. playing against 10 men) and so on. It might show something more. Here's a link which doesn't but at least gives an indication of who is doing what. You will notice that certain not strikers have scored more than our highest scorer, for example. This isn't to say that it is clear that our strikeforce isn't particularly potent because it obviously is one of the worst in the league but there are, perhaps reasons for this e.g. that we shoot from distance because we don't know how to get through a defence or the attackers arrive late and in the wrong position because they've been covering the left-back or their coached position means they aren't close to the rest of the strikers or so on. Even when we had Austin fit his form had dried up somewhat I seem to recollect so it could well be that that as well could apply to any other number of strikers. Also, it does have to be said Duckhunter's comment (when he decided to make a more sensible one than some of his more recent offerings) that the top six are palpably better than the rest does seem to be borne out by the league figures and having seen a few games now it is fair to say I consider that the standard overall is very poor indeed.

 

I've noticed someone say they'll consider looking at Nice's form over the last few seasons and compare it to ours. It's very similar to what we see: few goals but they're shared around. The occasional larger than one result but nothing out of the ordinary. What I did notice when looking at some highlights of French football, however, was how defensively open teams were at times. Perhaps that was due to the speed of the counter-attack or perhaps just because they don't seem to look to keep it tight. I suspect the latter as many leagues bar the Italian and Spanish ones do seem to have frequent attacks where the defence and midfield are not compact. I've suggested it before: why don't our resident experts in French go and peruse the Nice (and perhaps Lyon) forums and see what they made of Puel? If you take out Ben Arfa's goals their conversion rate plummets as I believe he was responsible for about half of the total. I suspect that he would not replicate that were he with us in this league.

[Saint Fen]

My key issue is the style of play. Results haven't helped but it's just not entertaining to watch. I fear we will drop down the table but will be saved because there are 3 worse sides than us. We have gone backwards partly due to selling our best players and not replacing them but also due to a change in style which is negative and defensive and doesn't commit too many players forward. Our midfielders don't contribute goals and our strikers aren't scoring. We have scored in 8 of 21 league games which is shocking. Sunderland, Hull and Swansea who are all really poor have scored more goals than us.

 

I have seen stats about shots on goal but most of ours are from distance and poor efforts. How many times has the other keeper been man of the match (probably Burnley twice).

 

Puel has to go. I see people saying give him the start of next season. How many supporters find us an entertaining team to watch? Where do people think we will finish?

[Saint Fen]

Meant to read not scored in 8 of 21 which is shocking!

[John B]

My key issue is the style of play. Results haven't helped but it's just not entertaining to watch. I fear we will drop down the table but will be saved because there are 3 worse sides than us. We have gone backwards partly due to selling our best players and not replacing them but also due to a change in style which is negative and defensive and doesn't commit too many players forward. Our midfielders don't contribute goals and our strikers aren't scoring. We have scored in 8 of 21 league games which is shocking. Sunderland, Hull and Swansea who are all really poor have scored more goals than us.

 

I have seen stats about shots on goal but most of ours are from distance and poor efforts. How many times has the other keeper been man of the match (probably Burnley twice).

 

Puel has to go. I see people saying give him the start of next season. How many supporters find us an entertaining team to watch? Where do people think we will finish?

 

I am not sure many supporters are really interested in the style of play most like me want a few goals and a few wins.

 

It is winning that counts for me as it makes me happy

[Noodles34]

We weren't this time last season

 

 

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but we were in January, as your original point. Dont want to get nit picking and i appreciate you think he is okay etc. i think we should definitely not knee jerk, but unless things dramaticlaly impove over the next few months, then we should be thinking about an alternative.

[SKD]

It's all about goals. People don't seem to know what they're watching. Here is the average conversion rate in the Premier League (not including Saints):

 

5093 shots

581 goals

Average Conversion rate of 11.41%

 

Our current conversion rate is:

313 shots

19 goals

Average Conversion rate of 6.09%

 

If we even had the AVERAGE conversion rate in the Premier League, we'd have scored 36 goals this season, good enough to be 6th best in the League, and only currently outside the current top 5.

 

We NEED a new striker we don't seem to need a new Manager. The fault here is with Reed and the board for not purchasing a striker in the Summer.

 

Whilst I think we do need a new striker as well, you'd be foolish to blame our lack of goals this season just on J Rod, Austin and Long and believe a new striker will solve all our issues. Yes, they have missed their fair share of opportunities however it's near on impossible for them to gain any form due to Puel's rotation policy. For example, look at J Rod against Liverpool last week... Fantastic, held the ball up well and brought other players into the game, only thing he didn't do was score. 3 days later, he's dropped to the bench.

 

We lack creativity from midfield, we play a slow possession based style when we don't have the players in the middle to break teams down or find that forward ball, that unlocks a teams defense in the final third. IMO we haven't had this since Lallana, but the manager needs to pick a style that suits the players we have and play to a teams strengths.

 

I have no doubt that Claude is a good manager and I really want him to do well as he seems like a decent bloke, but imo he needs to do a couple of things if he wants to be successful...

 

Stop this rotation boll0x, it just doesn't work. I could understand this during our EL campaign, but not now. Look at Chelsea this year, Leicester last year a consistent team produces results and allows players to find a bit of form.

 

Either change his style to suit the players we have or (in the summer) have an overhaul of the current squad and (will need the board to help him with this) spend some money bring in players to suit his style.

[THINWHITEDUKE]

CP 13/2 in the sack race, source: Ladbrokes

[broncoboy]

Dear Claude is not safe this season. He could lose unluckily tomorrow get tonked by Liverpool and he's definitely in trouble .

If uncle Les is unable to sign a striker before the window shuts and yoshi struggles as the replacement it's Claude who will pay the price. Being in the premiership is critical to the club and as uncle les decides on the fate of the manager if we drop down near the relegation zone Claude will be heading back to France

[Pedro]

Dear Claude is not safe this season. He could lose unluckily tomorrow get tonked by Liverpool and he's definitely in trouble .

If uncle Les is unable to sign a striker before the window shuts and yoshi struggles as the replacement it's Claude who will pay the price. Being in the premiership is critical to the club and as uncle les decides on the fate of the manager if we drop down near the relegation zone Claude will be heading back to France

 

And Eric Black to take the reins until the end of the season, God help us.

[tobes8]

I think the "boring" thing is getting quite boring.

 

I didn't go last night and am quite prepared to accept that it may have been utter ****e.

 

However, I watched the highlights and saw us have at least three or four very good goalscoring opportunities (in addition to the goal we did score). One came from a backpass but the others came from good play from us. If one or two of those had been buried, I'd wager there would be a lot fewer "bored" people and a much more positive spin on the performance.

 

So you should get 3/4 good goalscoring opportunities Against an out of form championship team... boring may be boring but we are exceptionally boring

[Lord Duckhunter]

Thoughts of the Puel out brigade tonight?

 

 

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[9-3]

I knew this would come!!

[SKD]

Thoughts of the Puel out brigade tonight?

 

 

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I think he got it spot on tonight, as he did in the first leg.

 

Unfortunately we continue to struggle against defensively strong teams and we've had a number of awful performances this year.

 

We're not going to sack Puel, and rightly so, however I do believe he needs to change his style of play against the weaker teams.

[doddisalegend]

I think he got it spot on tonight, as he did in the first leg.

 

Unfortunately we continue to struggle against defensively strong teams and we've had a number of awful performances this year.

 

We're not going to sack Puel, and rightly so, however I do believe he needs to change his style of play against the weaker teams.

 

Don't all teams witness free scoring Liverpool tonight...

[SKD]

Don't all teams witness free scoring Liverpool tonight...

 

Fair point, but Liverpool are in top 4 so can't be that bad.

 

I have to admit, we've looked more direct and move the ball quicker in the last 2 matches.

 

Perhaps we've turned a corner, let's hope so as I generally like Puel, just not some of our performances this year.

[Whitey Grandad]

As Churchill said: "We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing; but let us not forget for a moment the toil and efforts that lie ahead."

 

He's earned himself the right to be given a soft ride for the time being.

 

Well done Claude, and thank you.

[SKD]

As Churchill said: "We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing; but let us not forget for a moment the toil and efforts that lie ahead."

 

He's earned himself the right to be given a soft ride for the time being.

 

Well done Claude, and thank you.

 

Yep, I agree with this 100%

 

Hope he learns from mistakes and we turn a corner

[Jonnyboy]

Why did ALWAYS_SFC get banned?

Time to ban alpine_saint.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Hope he learns from mistakes and we turn a corner

 

Yeah that's right. The Puel out brigade weren't over reacting or wrong . Puel was wrong but is changing . Lol

 

 

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[trousers]

Any reason why a certain SWF fraternity aren't posting tonight? Still, I imagine the mods are on top of it....

[Saint IQ]

I knew this would come!!

 

Puel is out of his depth and he knows it as well if he is honest.

Ralph and Les you are accountable to Southampton Football Club and its supporters.

He is not the fit and you both know it as well.

For the sake of the Club, change it before it's too late.

 

Did you?

[Gingeletiss]

Fair point, but Liverpool are in top 4 so can't be that bad.

 

I have to admit, we've looked more direct and move the ball quicker in the last 2 matches.

 

Perhaps we've turned a corner, let's hope so as I generally like Puel, just not some of our performances this year.

 

Very much this!

[Raging Bull]

Any reason why a certain SWF fraternity aren't posting tonight? Still, I imagine the mods are on top of it....

 

Who?

 

I'm not (ever) up to speed on this type of thing.

 

Thanks

[SKD]

Yeah that's right. The Puel out brigade weren't over reacting or wrong . Puel was wrong but is changing . Lol

 

 

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I'd argue it was a mixture of both.

 

We've been fantastic on occasions but absolutely appalling on others.

 

Maybe he's finally realised that rotation generally doesn't work.

[cellone]

Yes Les is showing promise.

[Heisenberg]

Absolutely delighted tonight, perfect send off for NYC in the morning

 

Not quite ready to hail Puel as the best manager in the world but tonight has given him a lot of goodwill and saved Reed a savage beating.

 

Lets go win this... Been far too long since we won a trophy

 

Dont be a Malky Mackay (2012) Phil Parkinson (2013) Gus Poyet (2014)

 

Go be Alex McLeish (2011)

[shurlock]

So Puel is the French Alex McLeish?

[Heisenberg]

So Puel is the French Alex McLeish?

 

More champignon Steve le McClaren (2004)

Edited 26 January, 2017 by Heisenberg

[Whitey Grandad]

Any reason why a certain SWF fraternity aren't posting tonight? Still, I imagine the mods are on top of it....

 

Been to the game?

[FriendlySaint]

I take back everything bad I say about Puel. I was wrong.

 

He has proved us all wrong. His eyes and smile lit up tonight, as did the players'. A cup final is great for us.

[Dark Munster]

I'd argue it was a mixture of both.

 

We've been fantastic on occasions but absolutely appalling on others.

 

Maybe he's finally realised that rotation generally doesn't work.

Actually it's worked a treat so far. We're in the League cup final, FA cup 4th round, and comfortably mid table. EL was disappointing, but we missed out on that by away goals, aided by a couple of (unlucky for us) outstanding strikes and Austin getting injured. All this without the quality striker we've desperately needed since the season began.

[John Boy Saint]

Been to the game?

Nope one of them referred to other posters as gentlemans parts by a few various terms.

And just like the sermon on the mount scene out of Monty Pythons Life of Brian "if you call me big nose one more time I am going come over there and knock you F'ing block off". One of the Mods decided enough was enough and made sure they went through the door without it banging on their @r$e on the way out.

[Whitey Grandad]

Nope one of them referred to other posters as gentlemans parts by a few various terms.

And just like the sermon on the mount scene out of Monty Pythons Life of Brian "if you call me big nose one more time I am going come over there and knock you F'ing block off". One of the Mods decided enough was enough and made sure they went through the door without it banging on their @r$e on the way out.

 

To be honest I hadn't noticed that they were missing.

[SKD]

Not really saints related but I see Claude's son played for Bournemouth u21's today.

 

Seems he has followed Claude around a bit, so I wonder if we'll see him here at some point

[Nordic Saint]

Puel's joy when Long's goal went in puts him right up there with Nigel Adkins in the charming man stakes as far as I'm concerned. He's also a very good manager especially when you consider the hand he's been dealt with player sales and injuries. Many would have hung their heads in despair or become ratty and irritable under similar circumstances. But he's stayed calm and got us to Wembley against all odds.

[trousers]

https://twitter.com/Ahoybjerg/status/824398129260793856