'Eventually it catches up with you' - The season the pundits are right?

[James]

Players havent adjusted to the Puel philosophy. Give it 10 games at least... Transfer window still open besides it's not like Koeman had us playing decent initially. New system obviously requires newplayers aswell see the transfer window still open comment..... bunch of wet fannies on here anyone would think we have been relegated. chaps locate your balls....

 

When Koeman was appointed we went on an incredible run. If you're referring to last season I'd agree but, in his first season, RK got us playing pretty well almost immediately.

[Pengi]

When Koeman was appointed we went on an incredible run. If you're referring to last season I'd agree but, in his first season, RK got us playing pretty well almost immediately.

 

As did Poch

 

 

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[St Marco]

Last season we had the same points yes but I think a big difference was that in some of those games we were unlucky not to win them. We played some really good stuff and looked a threat. These past few games I think we have been lucky. We didn't deserve to win any of them. We played pretty poorly and people are rightly wondering where the goals will come from.

 

The way we play has changed. Will it work? Who knows.

But one thing is for sure the closer we get to deadline day the more desperate we will be.

[Saint-Fred]

And the myths begin.

 

We didn't force anyone to leave, unless saying "here's a nice new contract and pay rise" is what passes as forcing someone to leave these days.

 

If I have misunderstood what some of the alleged ITK's said about Saints not allowing him to see out the final year of his contract then I retract that bit....

 

By the way have you started stalking me again? My very own fanboy!!

Edited 27 August, 2016 by Saint-Fred

[shurlock]

Last season we had the same points yes but I think a big difference was that in some of those games we were unlucky not to win them. We played some really good stuff and looked a threat. These past few games I think we have been lucky. We didn't deserve to win any of them. We played pretty poorly and people are rightly wondering where the goals will come from.

 

The way we play has changed. Will it work? Who knows.

But one thing is for sure the closer we get to deadline day the more desperate we will be.

 

Which games were those?

 

Newcastle

Everton

Watford

 

We were OK up at (relegated) Newcastle, though a draw was a fair result. Everton and Watford were very poor performances, followed by the debacle in Demark. The only difference is that Koeman had built up goodwill from the previous season when he had been given substantial resources to strengthen the squad.

 

The fact remains that even if Koeman had stayed, this season was likely to be an anticlimax. He knew it - one reason he probably jumped ship. Like it or not, finishing top half -whether under Puel or Koeman- would be a successful season.

Edited 27 August, 2016 by shurlock

[Saint-Fred]

That's all rubbish ..................our last 8-9 games we played last season fell into laps and whereabouts the relative team situation fixture landed on we were as i said then very lucky to have been on a good run of form, nothing to do with what manager we had, istill would like RK to be here but were not big enough to sustain peoples ambitions for long enough,do an ok sort of job for say 2 seasons and move on its the Southampton way very frustrating.

 

And the seventh the season before more luck?

My point is we had a good manager and over achieved ...Puel is on a hiding to nothing..he won't match (or better) it no matter how good the Southampton way is!

[captainchris]

We are only 3 games in to the season, we will improve & we will slump over the season as per every year. The manager & team need time,all these things are minor,what isn't minor is our lack of goals, we need a striker who will give us 20 goals a season, not someone who is good in another countries league but someone who has done the business in the premier league. It is time for Les to spend big & get Bony in.

 

Not Bony pleeeeeas.....

[Roger]

Which games were those?

 

Newcastle

Everton

Watford

 

We were OK up at (relegated) Newcastle, though a draw was a fair result. Everton and Watford were very poor performances, followed by the debacle in Demark. The only difference is that Koeman had built up goodwill from the previous season when he had been given substantial resources to strengthen the squad.

 

The fact remains that even if Koeman had stayed, this season was likely to be an anticlimax. He knew it - one reason he probably jumped ship. Like it or not, finishing top half -whether under Puel or Koeman- would be a successful season.

 

That is a load of bull. Koeman had proved in first two seasons he was a brilliant manager.

[shurlock]

That is a load of bull. Koeman had proved in first two seasons he was a brilliant manager.

 

What the **** are you on about, bodge? I said he had an excellent first season - that's why concerns about the start to last season were put in perspective. The poster claimed we played excellent stuff in the first three games of last season. We did not pal.

Edited 27 August, 2016 by shurlock

[St Marco]

What the **** are you on about, bodge? I said he had an excellent first season - that's why concerns about the start to last season were put in perspective. The poster claimed we played excellent stuff in the first three games of last season. We did not pal.

 

Everton game was bad. But we played well against the others. Newcastle had an ok start and Watford lost only one of their first 6 games. I stand by what I said. I was confident that team would recover. I'm not as confident the current one will in this current state.

[shurlock]

Everton game was bad. But we played well against the others. Newcastle had an ok start and Watford lost only one of their first 6 games. I stand by what I said. I was confident that team would recover. I'm not as confident the current one will in this current state.

 

Basically you don't remember any of the games as you're referring to stats and hindsight. Watford and Everton were poor performances - I was at both games and they very much set the tone for the performance in Denmark.

 

Who said this regards the Watford performance?

 

apoint is ok. But the way we played was terrible. I think only Fonte played well.

Hoof ball, way too defensive. No quality at all. If we play like that against the top 10 teams we will get destroyed.

 

Take your time pal.

Edited 28 August, 2016 by shurlock

[david in sweden]

When Koeman was appointed we went on an incredible run.

If you're referring to last season I'd agree but, in his first season, RK got us playing pretty well almost immediately.

 

 

well ALMOST ...in RK's first season we lost first game (Liverpool) drew the second against a boring West Brom. and didn't get a win until game 3 (West Ham).

Then (as now) came the international break (after game 3) before we eventually kick-started the season.

Last season (ironically) gave the sort of same results as this one has so far - in other words, played 3 games = 2 points.

 

Now we are talking; a new manager, unfamiliar Diamond formation, late-returning, "tired" internationals who didn't get a pre-season, and not replacing those summer's "deserters"etc, etc. All these have some basis in fact, and perhaps it's a little of all this...

 

For some reason we rarely have a good start, (there have been a couple of exceptions ..in the last 10 years) but we always seem to fumble the first couple of home games in hot, sweaty affairs with no real promise of a good season. I sat and sweltered along with the other 30,000 watching the Watford " bully boys " batter Long and Redmond without them getting any real protection from the ref. and watched us squander a dozen good chances in two halves.

Yesterday was little better and the only bright spot being the re-emergence of a "fit " Jay Rod.

Puel will be a brave man, if he now let's him go out on loan... and everything goes pear-shaped later on in the season.

 

The reality is, that many fans seem to be pinning their hopes for " a successful " season on a good run in the Europa League, where the Diamond formation may suit that style of game better, and if we progress then it will indeed be ....a long season with everything depending on the last 6 weeks, or (as we saw with Spurs / Liverpool) teams eventually falling at the last hurdle, and so holding out until the last game is all important.

Don't forget both the EL and the Prem. are marathons and not sprint races. We might not be even talking Europa League had we not had that v. good finish to last season.

 

New season, new manager, new players, new formation...and already we're all asking - where's the magician to make it all work?.

[OldNick]

well ALMOST ...in RK's first season we lost first game (Liverpool) drew the second against a boring West Brom. and didn't get a win until game 3 (West Ham).

Then (as now) came the international break (after game 3) before we eventually kick-started the season.

Last season (ironically) gave the sort of same results as this one has so far - in other words, played 3 games = 2 points.

 

Now we are talking; a new manager, unfamiliar Diamond formation, late-returning, "tired" internationals who didn't get a pre-season, and not replacing those summer's "deserters"etc, etc. All these have some basis in fact, and perhaps it's a little of all this...

 

For some reason we rarely have a good start, (there have been a couple of exceptions ..in the last 10 years) but we always seem to fumble the first couple of home games in hot, sweaty affairs with no real promise of a good season. I sat and sweltered along with the other 30,000 watching the Watford " bully boys " batter Long and Redmond without them getting any real protection from the ref. and watched us squander a dozen good chances in two halves.

Yesterday was little better and the only bright spot being the re-emergence of a "fit " Jay Rod.

Puel will be a brave man, if he now let's him go out on loan... and everything goes pear-shaped later on in the season.

 

The reality is, that many fans seem to be pinning their hopes for " a successful " season on a good run in the Europa League, where the Diamond formation may suit that style of game better, and if we progress then it will indeed be ....a long season with everything depending on the last 6 weeks, or (as we saw with Spurs / Liverpool) teams eventually falling at the last hurdle, and so holding out until the last game is all important.

Don't forget both the EL and the Prem. are marathons and not sprint races. We might not be even talking Europa League had we not had that v. good finish to last season.

 

New season, new manager, new players, new formation...and already we're all asking - where's the magician to make it all work?.

All pertinent, but even with more 1player in, we seem to be a weaker team than we finished last season, but with a lot more games to play. I can only assume that the club believe that putting our youth players in we will be able to cope.

Listening to VVD's tone in his interview yesterday, it sounded pretty frustrated and I wonder if he regrets signing the longer contract and will want to be out of the project come January. He has his career to think about and so doubt he wants to waste it slumming round the lower reaches of the league and not progressing I cup competitions. Having to nursemaid the youth players cannot be much fun and also be frustrating.

[sammysaint]

Top 6 will not be achieved again unless we do keep the best players at the club and if one of the big boys has a off season.

 

I think top 8 should be the aim and 8th is still achievable and IMO would be a good season but anything below 9th is a bad season and Puel needs to change his system or personal, I actually think Jay Rod would work well in his formation but Austin not so much, Jay Rod and Long upfront vs Arsenal.

[Heisenberg]

7 years of continuous improvement and then 2016/17 where we made millions but finished bottom half

 

Perhaps it's all part of the new 5 year plan?

 

Absolutely no chance we will improve on last seasons league finish, but would finishing 14th and reaching a cup final be seen as year on year improvement? I'm sure Reed will say so

[GarrettIvo]

All pertinent, but even with more 1player in, we seem to be a weaker team than we finished last season, but with a lot more games to play. I can only assume that the club believe that putting our youth players in we will be able to cope.

Listening to VVD's tone in his interview yesterday, it sounded pretty frustrated and I wonder if he regrets signing the longer contract and will want to be out of the project come January. He has his career to think about and so doubt he wants to waste it slumming round the lower reaches of the league and not progressing I cup competitions. Having to nursemaid the youth players cannot be much fun and also be frustrating.

 

You don't perhaps think he was just annoyed at the result, and his team's inability to put away a very average Sunderland side. Seems more likely to me than just assuming he wants to tear up his contract after three games.

But hey ho.

[david in sweden]

7 years of continuous improvement and then 2016/17 where we made millions but finished bottom half

 

a lot of contributors keep quoting this, but although we made a short-term profit on transfer deals..we still have to pay these men large salaries for the duration.

Not everyone thinks about, but after Lallana move to Liverpool one journo wrote that his (AL) 5 year deal willcost Liverpool around £50 million, and he's only one player.

 

Granted Liverpool a " bigger club ", larger ground etc, but we're not in " that particular League" when it comes to income and the knowledge that Saints lost around £50 million on the Gaston / Osvaldo deals (transfer fees / salaries, etc ) is little consolation when you must spend money to improve the quality of the squad.

 

Thankfully... we have the new TV deal upcoming to give us more cash, but we can't live on credit and spend that money before we get it.

As for finishing bottom half (we older fans) have been used to that for decades and although I don't see us making top 6 this season, I think we'll be top half.

[St Marco]

Basically you don't remember any of the games as you're referring to stats and hindsight. Watford and Everton were poor performances - I was at both games and they very much set the tone for the performance in Denmark.

 

Who said this regards the Watford performance?

 

 

 

Take your time pal.

 

So like I said you are confident just like last season we will come good then in the end?

[doddisalegend]

Which games were those?

 

Newcastle

Everton

Watford

 

We were OK up at (relegated) Newcastle, though a draw was a fair result. Everton and Watford were very poor performances, followed by the debacle in Demark. The only difference is that Koeman had built up goodwill from the previous season when he had been given substantial resources to strengthen the squad.

 

The fact remains that even if Koeman had stayed, this season was likely to be an anticlimax. He knew it - one reason he probably jumped ship. Like it or not, finishing top half -whether under Puel or Koeman- would be a successful season.

 

Pretty much this people seem to have blanked the first half of last season from their minds....

[Give it to Ron]

Pretty much this people seem to have blanked the first half of last season from their minds....

 

Think it was 7 points after 7 games, however there are several things wrong at the moment which is why lots of 'negative' posts.

Number one for me is the players look lost and unhappy in the 5 games I have seen with no signs of a change.

Diamond is fine as long as you have the players......we don't.

 

 

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[St Marco]

What I also found interesting was for all our possession our main striker didn't have a single touch of the ball in their penalty box yesterday.

[Whitey Grandad]

What I also found interesting was for all our possession our main striker didn't have a single touch of the ball in their penalty box yesterday.

 

Austin? Have you forgotten the time we was clean through on the right and fluffed it?

[doddisalegend]

Think it was 7 points after 7 games, however there are several things wrong at the moment which is why lots of 'negative' posts.

Number one for me is the players look lost and unhappy in the 5 games I have seen with no signs of a change.

Diamond is fine as long as you have the players......we don't.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

People keep saying this but I'm not seeing it anymore than last season. They players hardly looked happy little souls last season when they went through that mid-season slump or the start of last season when they were doing about as well as they're right now. I'm pretty sure some fans are unhappy and are trying to project their feelings onto the players actions.

[doddisalegend]

What I also found interesting was for all our possession our main striker didn't have a single touch of the ball in their penalty box yesterday.

 

don't we play two up top which one is our main striker then?

[hypochondriac]

People keep saying this but I'm not seeing it anymore than last season. They players hardly looked happy little souls last season when they went through that mid-season slump or the start of last season when they were doing about as well as they're right now. I'm pretty sure some fans are unhappy and are trying to project their feelings onto the players actions.

Not sure I agree there. VVD's inyerview was concerning

[St Marco]

Austin? Have you forgotten the time we was clean through on the right and fluffed it?

 

If you read this you see Austins touches in the opta graphic

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37139629

[Chez]

The team can't be great forever. All clubs go through cycles. Just run with it. At some point there has to be some ying to all this positive yang. We've had for the last seven years.

 

For anyone worrying, think on that We are about to live out one of our footballing dreams, even relegation won't take that experience away.

[kelkel31]

Austin? Have you forgotten the time we was clean through on the right and fluffed it?

 

He was flagged offside so it doesnt count

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I see we are all still impatient little children over here then...

[trousers]

I see we are all still impatient little children over here then...

Not 'all' of us, thank you very much

[Happy saint]

That was a quick season only 3 games and we are written off

[trousers]

That was a quick season only 3 games and we are written off

The only problem I foresee with this meltdown and ultimate collapse is that we won't end up in the same league as Pompey. Next season, when we're getting relegated from the Championship they'll be getting promoted from League 1. Disappointing to say the least.

[St.JonB]

That was a quick season only 3 games and we are written off

 

People are concerned. The only person that can prove them wrong is Puel; the vast majority hope to be proved wrong. What i find annoying is the posters that are trying to rewrite last season. We finished 6th and will probably not ever have a better season in the league. Please happy clappers stop trying to rewrite history to prove all is good now.

[Saint-Fred]

All depends on the cups. 12th and a cup win would be fcking amazing. I'd take that as progress on our 6th, this clubs needs another trophy!

 

We have one a proper cup once in 130 odd years..do you really think this year will be any different?

[Red]

Strange then that if technical football subtlety can't compete with PL pace how often PL teams don't do well in Europe you'd think our PL pace and power would over come technical football.....

 

Sorry for the delayed response (3 message limit and all that - would join as full member if I had more time, and there was a real discussion forum here rather than the usual drama queens with the hand bags and scantiness). Excellent question though and one the I have pondered myself frequently.

IMHO this is complex (otherwise the great managers would have figured it out by now), but I think mainly the PL teams approach European football with a different mindset – ala we need to match the Europeans technically and so fall in to their trap as it were. Bit like when the big teams field different (poorer) teams for the league cup etc. For example take Dundalk, who played their typical Irish style and nearly caused an upset – in the second game Legia could not cope with them.

Cannot think of many European games (at least ones I have watched) where the English teams have simply battered the opposition? Also, the Euro referees are a bunch of pansies and will blow for a fart in the wind, so not as easy to impose the English PL gusto.

Hope this helps, and happy to continue the discussion if genuine, as it a good point as I said above.

[Redslo]

All pertinent, but even with more 1player in, we seem to be a weaker team than we finished last season, but with a lot more games to play. I can only assume that the club believe that putting our youth players in we will be able to cope.

Listening to VVD's tone in his interview yesterday, it sounded pretty frustrated and I wonder if he regrets signing the longer contract and will want to be out of the project come January. He has his career to think about and so doubt he wants to waste it slumming round the lower reaches of the league and not progressing I cup competitions. Having to nursemaid the youth players cannot be much fun and also be frustrating.

 

I think he sounded disappointed with a poorly played game and determined to not let it happen again.

 

You don't perhaps think he was just annoyed at the result, and his team's inability to put away a very average Sunderland side. Seems more likely to me than just assuming he wants to tear up his contract after three games.

But hey ho.

 

Better said than I, but correct.

 

What I also found interesting was for all our possession our main striker didn't have a single touch of the ball in their penalty box yesterday.

 

Austin? Have you forgotten the time we was clean through on the right and fluffed it?

 

I think at that particular moment Redmond was the main striker. Austin had that position at other times.

 

People keep saying this but I'm not seeing it anymore than last season. They players hardly looked happy little souls last season when they went through that mid-season slump or the start of last season when they were doing about as well as they're right now. I'm pretty sure some fans are unhappy and are trying to project their feelings onto the players actions.

 

I think you fail to recognize how important it is for our players to look happy when they are not winning.

 

don't we play two up top which one is our main striker then?

 

It is the one not touching the ball in the box at the moment. Sometimes we have two main strikers, but never zero.

 

People are concerned. The only person that can prove them wrong is Puel; the vast majority hope to be proved wrong. What i find annoying is the posters that are trying to rewrite last season. We finished 6th and will probably not ever have a better season in the league. Please happy clappers stop trying to rewrite history to prove all is good now.

 

The happy clappers are not trying to rewrite last season to prove all is good now. We are trying to rewrite the present. Pay more attention.

 

Sorry for the delayed response (3 message limit and all that - would join as full member if I had more time, and there was a real discussion forum here rather than the usual drama queens with the hand bags and scantiness). Excellent question though and one the I have pondered myself frequently.

IMHO this is complex (otherwise the great managers would have figured it out by now), but I think mainly the PL teams approach European football with a different mindset – ala we need to match the Europeans technically and so fall in to their trap as it were. Bit like when the big teams field different (poorer) teams for the league cup etc. For example take Dundalk, who played their typical Irish style and nearly caused an upset – in the second game Legia could not cope with them.

Cannot think of many European games (at least ones I have watched) where the English teams have simply battered the opposition? Also, the Euro referees are a bunch of pansies and will blow for a fart in the wind, so not as easy to impose the English PL gusto.

Hope this helps, and happy to continue the discussion if genuine, as it a good point as I said above.

 

I have no idea whether you are right, but at least you expressed an on point thought that has not been repeated zillions of times here. But don't waste your limited responses continuing a discussion with me.