Lord Duckhunter Posted 4 October, 2020 Share Posted 4 October, 2020 No player seems to have spilt opinion on here more than Gaston Ramírez : his time at Saints will be remembered by many as one of sadly unfulfilled potential for whatever reasons and that wonderfully unforgettable performance against Villa that lit up St Mary's just a few short seasons ago. Only a spiteful and malevolent few will say "good riddance" which in itself is testimony to the uncertainty surrounding his departure bearing in mind the opprobrium heaped on the hapless trio of Carillo, Hoedt and Forster. By all accounts Gaston seems to be a lovely lad who fits in with his colleagues more than with management. I doubt we will ever know the full story of why he was so frequently out of favour. That seems to be behind us now so we should all wish him well in his new career and thank him for being a loyal uncomplaining Saintthese past few years. Thanks for the memories Gaston and bon chance at Hull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 October, 2020 Share Posted 4 October, 2020 1 hour ago, Bewildered said: https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/angers-to-land-sofiane-boufal-from-southampton/ We've accepted a bid from Angers for Boufal their entire wage bill is about £25m. How will they afford a £65k a week guy, assuming that it accurate. Sizeable pay off from us required I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 4 October, 2020 Share Posted 4 October, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: No player seems to have spilt opinion on here more than Gaston Ramírez : his time at Saints will be remembered by many as one of sadly unfulfilled potential for whatever reasons and that wonderfully unforgettable performance against Villa that lit up St Mary's just a few short seasons ago. Only a spiteful and malevolent few will say "good riddance" which in itself is testimony to the uncertainty surrounding his departure bearing in mind the opprobrium heaped on the hapless trio of Carillo, Hoedt and Forster. By all accounts Gaston seems to be a lovely lad who fits in with his colleagues more than with management. I doubt we will ever know the full story of why he was so frequently out of favour. That seems to be behind us now so we should all wish him well in his new career and thank him for being a loyal uncomplaining Saintthese past few years. Thanks for the memories Gaston and bon chance at Hull. Weak, unfunny, slightly spiteful piss take on Charlie's very reasonable SFC valedictory to Boufal's time at the Club - he may not have fitted in to the Prem format, but was a sublimely skilful player to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 4 October, 2020 Share Posted 4 October, 2020 18 minutes ago, austsaint said: Weak, unfunny, slightly spiteful piss take on Charlie's very reasonable SFC valedictory to Boufal's time at the Club - he may not have fitted in to the Prem format, but was a sublimely skilful player to watch. Think that should be ... was occasionally a sublimely skilful player to watch. If he could repeat that sublime skill on a regular basis he'd have been first name on the teamsheet and we'd be moaning about him signing for Liverpool, Utd or whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 4 October, 2020 Share Posted 4 October, 2020 47 minutes ago, Badger said: Think that should be ... was occasionally a sublimely skilful player to watch. If he could repeat that sublime skill on a regular basis he'd have been first name on the teamsheet and we'd be moaning about him signing for Liverpool, Utd or whoever. Was once or twice a sublimely skilful player. The problem with all this pony about skilful players is it doesn’t take into account the main skill required . The ability to produce your skill when others are trying to stop you. He couldn’t, Gaston couldn’t, Matt could. Mr Woo is sublimely skilful, but there’s nobody trying to get the ball off him. You can be the most skilful player the games ever seen, but if you’re incapable of doing so when it matters, it’s irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Just of interest Lord D, on the Carrillo thread you seem rather sympathetic to the player, pointing out that "at least he tried" (which I agree with btw). Do you feel the same towards Boufal or do you put him in the category of "taking the piss"? The way I see it is that Hasenhuttl - who is not afraid to criticise players for their lack of commitment or unprofessionalism - has always been positive about Boufal's attitude and by all accounts he is a popular guy at the club. He has obviously disappointed overall, but he has made a few good contributions along the way too. It strikes me that he is a player who just isn't suited to the way that Hasenhuttl wants to play (which I'm surprised at, but it is what it is), and perhaps not to the Premier League in general. But sometimes that happens (like it did with Clasie and a few others that we've narrowly missed with). Just trying to understand why there is such constant negativity towards him when even Carrillo gets a "best wishes". Is it just a backlash against the several people who are fans of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 He's gone. It's another complete freebie though. https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2020-10-05/announcement-sofiane-boufal-transfer-southampton-football-club-angers The club have finally stopped trying to get fee's for these players. Makes no sense having them hogging the wage bill, so we've done a lot of good today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: He's gone. It's another complete freebie though. https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2020-10-05/announcement-sofiane-boufal-transfer-southampton-football-club-angers The club have finally stopped trying to get fee's for these players. Makes no sense having them hogging the wage bill, so we've done a lot of good today. I read we have sell on clause from Angers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 4 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said: Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. Yep and hopefully the last of those will be gone permanently by next year. Don't forget elyonoussi too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Just now, hypochondriac said: Yep and hopefully the last of those will be gone permanently by next year. Don't forget elyonoussi too. Indeed, Hypo! Moi is one of the #Unsellables that might actually be sellable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, mrfahaji said: Just of interest Lord D, on the Carrillo thread you seem rather sympathetic to the player, pointing out that "at least he tried" (which I agree with btw). Do you feel the same towards Boufal or do you put him in the category of "taking the piss"? The way I see it is that Hasenhuttl - who is not afraid to criticise players for their lack of commitment or unprofessionalism - has always been positive about Boufal's attitude and by all accounts he is a popular guy at the club. He has obviously disappointed overall, but he has made a few good contributions along the way too. It strikes me that he is a player who just isn't suited to the way that Hasenhuttl wants to play (which I'm surprised at, but it is what it is), and perhaps not to the Premier League in general. But sometimes that happens (like it did with Clasie and a few others that we've narrowly missed with). Just trying to understand why there is such constant negativity towards him when even Carrillo gets a "best wishes". Is it just a backlash against the several people who are fans of him? He never took the piss. It’s the people banging on about his “clearly” having talent and blaming the manger or tactics for his failure, who do my head in. Like Gaston he was a monumental waste of money, and wasn’t good enough. Edited 5 October, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 38 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said: Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. Worth adding that whilst this may not aid us bringing players in immediately, you'd imagine it will free up some space in the wage bill to aid the renewals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 1 minute ago, S-Clarke said: Worth adding that whilst this may not aid us bringing players in immediately, you'd imagine it will free up some space in the wage bill to aid the renewals. Yeah. I look at it 3 ways: - Space for new signings - New contract capacity - Doesn't drain millions a year out of the club through covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 It does seem like most/all of the deadwood has finally gone. No immediate huge benefits, but less of an overall financial mess and absentee players. Good for the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Good luck Sof. I’ve never hidden the fact that I didn’t rate him but he did put the effort in, even if he was never suited to English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 He might not have ended up being what we wanted him to be for us, but if nothing else he gave us an absolute gem of a goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said: Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. Exactly. By my conservative estimates that should all add up to £350,000 a week, saving us £18million+ over the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said: Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. Don’t forget in the two windows before that we shifted Davis, Austin, Gallagher and Target. Best part of £200k a week there too along with the c£400k a week in the ones you mentioned. The wages of Salisu, Walker Peters, Dallio, Walcott, Djenepo and Adams wont be even half that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 2 minutes ago, Turkish said: Don’t forget in the two windows before that we shifted Davis, Austin, Gallagher and Target. Best part of £200k a week there too along with the c£400k a week in the ones you mentioned. The wages of Salisu, Walker Peters, Dallio, Walcott, Djenepo and Adams wont be even half that. I think you can add Austin and Clasie to the wages saved this transfer window, we’d have been paying a percentage on both right up until June this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I think you can add Austin and Clasie to the wages saved this transfer window, we’d have been paying a percentage on both right up until June this year. Forgot about claise and also Gabbiadini, that’s 13 relatively high earners gone in 3 windows, good work. Hopefully this means next summer things won’t be so tight. Especially if we can shift Hoedt and Lemina permanently and one of our 3 keepers. Edited 6 October, 2020 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkswood Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 Christ. Imagine if we'd got relegated with all that lot still on the wage bill. Doesn't bear thinking about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 5 October, 2020 Share Posted 5 October, 2020 I guess with the log jam these “stinkers” was causing, someone had a sensible moment and like real life decided to finally go “Ah well clear them out and wipe our mouth”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 2 hours ago, Jimmy_D said: He might not have ended up being what we wanted him to be for us, but if nothing else he gave us an absolute gem of a goal. Yes this goal was extra special. Good luck Sofiane at Angers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 10 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I’ve never hidden the fact that I didn’t rate him but he did put the effort in. Never a truer word.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy40 Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 11 hours ago, Lighthouse said: ... he did put the effort in... If that was "effort" (you think "Sofiane the Show Pony" was giving 100%?) then I've been spending my entire working life giving 1000% to all of my employers! He was that guy in the warehouse who somehow always looks busy but genuine does sweet FA, and thank God we've now seen the back of all those "no party" idiotic comments on social media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 The Times this morning reports that he has joint Angiers 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 13 hours ago, Hawkswood said: Christ. Imagine if we'd got relegated with all that lot still on the wage bill. Doesn't bear thinking about. But for Gabbiadini’s outstretched leg at Swansea, the club would have been and in all honesty would have been in very serious jeopardy of going bust if they hadn’t already. There haven’t been many highlights in the Gao era but firing Reed - Kreuger should be ashamed for not doing that before he could squander the VVD money - and hiring Ralph have been the two main ones. Wish he’d done it in November 2017 pre Carrillo but better late than never. Still some deadwood to go - Forster, Hoedt and Lemina one year to go - but as others have posted a lot more cleared now and a cleaner start for a new owner which I think we will have. That Forster second extension still makes me shake my head, no justification for it. Doubt we will ever get to the bottom of it. Our deadwood is proportionally not much worse than most PL clubs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 He is a very skillful player, no question about that but I think that the reason why he didn't feature or didn't appear to get a run out of many different managers at Saints is because I think he was un-coachable to some extent. He seemed to be hard wired to try the same type of move each time he got the ball regardless of the situation. He didn't appear to have any situational awareness and would try to go around another player when an easy pass or shot was on or shoot from a really tight angle when the easy pass was on. Must have been infuriating for managers, as it was for fans. I played with guys like that. Coach would say, "I want you to stop trying to cut inside and shoot, they've read it and are easily stopping you, mix it up a bit" but then said player would still do it over and over again. In the highlight videos we watched of Boufal he had a ton of space to try his tricks and would even mess a few up but get away with it because the defending was so poor. In the premier league you can't get away with that. He was found out and couldn't (or wouldn't) adapt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, SuperSAINT said: Made a BIG saving on the overall wage bill when you think: Yoshi / Cedric / PEH / Reed / Lemina / Carrillo / Hoedt % / Boufal Have all gone. Does anyone have an estimate of the total wages saved here? Edit - I see its been estimated as 350k. No further questions M'luds. Edited 6 October, 2020 by Saint86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, saint1977 said: Edited 6 October, 2020 by Mr X Wrong quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said: He is a very skillful player, no question about that but I think that the reason why he didn't feature or didn't appear to get a run out of many different managers at Saints is because I think he was un-coachable to some extent. He seemed to be hard wired to try the same type of move each time he got the ball regardless of the situation. He didn't appear to have any situational awareness and would try to go around another player when an easy pass or shot was on or shoot from a really tight angle when the easy pass was on. Must have been infuriating for managers, as it was for fans. I played with guys like that. Coach would say, "I want you to stop trying to cut inside and shoot, they've read it and are easily stopping you, mix it up a bit" but then said player would still do it over and over again. In the highlight videos we watched of Boufal he had a ton of space to try his tricks and would even mess a few up but get away with it because the defending was so poor. In the premier league you can't get away with that. He was found out and couldn't (or wouldn't) adapt. agree with this summary To a certain extent ala Lemina, boufal was a player that wanted to take everyone on himself with often unnecessary tricks at the wrong times instead of playing to someone in a better position! He definitely had Lots of natural talent with the ball but no football brain in terms of knowing where everyone else is on the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr X said: I agree with this summary To a certain extent ala Lemina, boufal was a player that wanted to take everyone on himself with often unnecessary tricks at the wrong times instead of playing to someone in a better position! He definitely had Lots of natural talent with the ball but no football brain in terms of knowing where everyone else is on the pitch You have both got it right. I manage at a rather lower level of football but the problem appears at every level. Players who think being skilful, having tricks is enough. It really isn't. Indeed what make you a footballer is understanding the context in which to use that skill. Boufal - who has made me smile at times which is nice - just didn't get it. Compare with Le Tiss who was the ultimate team player. Extravagant goal on - yeh lets take it - but not on lets slip in Gordon Watson (yes Gordon fucking Watson!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 3 hours ago, OttawaSaint said: He is a very skillful player, no question about that but I think that the reason why he didn't feature or didn't appear to get a run out of many different managers at Saints is because I think he was un-coachable to some extent. He seemed to be hard wired to try the same type of move each time he got the ball regardless of the situation. He didn't appear to have any situational awareness and would try to go around another player when an easy pass or shot was on or shoot from a really tight angle when the easy pass was on. Must have been infuriating for managers, as it was for fans. I played with guys like that. Coach would say, "I want you to stop trying to cut inside and shoot, they've read it and are easily stopping you, mix it up a bit" but then said player would still do it over and over again. In the highlight videos we watched of Boufal he had a ton of space to try his tricks and would even mess a few up but get away with it because the defending was so poor. In the premier league you can't get away with that. He was found out and couldn't (or wouldn't) adapt. Basically when going forward he would not or could not get his head up to see what was on around him. Obviously several managers hoped or thought they could coach this out of him, but they couldn't, it is his style or a trait. He was extremely skilful, no doubt, but skill is not enough in a team. He was also by far the best of our AMs at defending, certainly better than Redmond or Tadic, but he was here to create and he couldn't. Wish him well, but glad to see him gone, big mistake. He will do OK in a less intense league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 4 hours ago, OttawaSaint said: He is a very skillful player, no question about that but I think that the reason why he didn't feature or didn't appear to get a run out of many different managers at Saints is because I think he was un-coachable to some extent. He seemed to be hard wired to try the same type of move each time he got the ball regardless of the situation. He didn't appear to have any situational awareness and would try to go around another player when an easy pass or shot was on or shoot from a really tight angle when the easy pass was on. Must have been infuriating for managers, as it was for fans. I played with guys like that. Coach would say, "I want you to stop trying to cut inside and shoot, they've read it and are easily stopping you, mix it up a bit" but then said player would still do it over and over again. In the highlight videos we watched of Boufal he had a ton of space to try his tricks and would even mess a few up but get away with it because the defending was so poor. In the premier league you can't get away with that. He was found out and couldn't (or wouldn't) adapt. He's an odd player, like you say he's very skilful, probably the most skilful player at the club. But he was lacking other attributes. I'd agree with you that his awareness and general football brain was poor, that can't be coached and that's what you're born with really. He's what I'd call a luxury player, someone you can throw on and let the showboats come out - but you need time and space to do that and this league doesn't really afford that luxury. The lack of suitors says it all really. He's ended up at Angers because whilst he's talented, he lacks other key ingredients to be a top level player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 6 October, 2020 Share Posted 6 October, 2020 Boufal always reminded me of the lad who could dribble around all the kids in the, playground but never had any impact on a football field. Every Tyro manager has given them at least one game in pre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 Think Boufal enjoyed his first goal for Angers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 Watch him explode, hope we included a 50% sell on fee in the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 He s having a great game already tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 Hopefully he’s found a level where he can deliver consistently, for his own sake if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Hopefully he’s found a level where he can deliver consistently, for his own sake if nothing else. Think it s more about a style of play and league than level. Just not suited to the PL, it happens. he s always had the level to shine. He ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archers Road Stand Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 1 minute ago, stevy777_x said: He ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. Not a chance. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 8 minutes ago, stevy777_x said: He’ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. I wish him well... but no. In 4 years here he scored against WBA... who got relegated, Boro.... who got relegated, Sunderland... who got relegated and Spurs.... who were 5-0 up and already in the pub. He’ll do well in Ligue 1 and there’s no shame in that but he’s not about to suddenly light up Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 1 minute ago, Lighthouse said: I wish him well... but no. In 4 years here he scored against WBA... who got relegated, Boro.... who got relegated, Sunderland... who got relegated and Spurs.... who were 5-0 up and already in the pub. He’ll do well in Ligue 1 and there’s no shame in that but he’s not about to suddenly light up Europe. I think we get you don't rate him! I do, but he was not suited to the Prem and didn't get the trust/faith from a couple of poor Managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 16 minutes ago, stevy777_x said: Think it s more about a style of play and league than level. Just not suited to the PL, it happens. he s always had the level to shine. He ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. Yet we couldn’t sell him, having to give him away. Can’t believe these top clubs didn’t snap him up then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 1 hour ago, stevy777_x said: Think it s more about a style of play and league than level. Just not suited to the PL, it happens. he s always had the level to shine. He ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. Top club in an obscure league, maybe. He's not going to make it at the top level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 October, 2020 Share Posted 23 October, 2020 2 hours ago, stevy777_x said: He ll be at a top european club in the next 2 years. Pony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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