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Sunderland Build Up Thread

Wiggles31

By Wiggles31
in The Saints

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

I think there's a lot of romanticising last year's team. In my view, last year we were worse than in the previous two years yet because the general quality of the league was awful last year we still managed to finish higher anyway.

 

The performances against Newcastle, Everton and Watford at the start of last season were no better than the performances at the start of this season.

 

The performances against Bournemouth away, Norwich away, Midgetland away, Everton at home, Villa at home etc.. were far worse than either of our two performances this season.

 

As for Sat, I think Austin deserves a start. I would bring him in for Long.

 

We had a dreadful run in the middle of last season.

Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think there's a lot of romanticising last year's team. In my view, last year we were worse than in the previous two years yet because the general quality of the league was awful last year we still managed to finish higher anyway.

 

The performances against Newcastle, Everton and Watford at the start of last season were no better than the performances at the start of this season.

 

The performances against Bournemouth away, Norwich away, Midgetland away, Everton at home, Villa at home etc.. were far worse than either of our two performances this season.

 

As for Sat, I think Austin deserves a start. I would bring him in for Long.

 

We had a dreadful run in the middle of last season.

 

you are right. we were helped by a pretty crap league and an excellent run-in

for larger parts of the season. we were alright. around xmas, ronald was fighting for his job ffs

 

the Arsenal home game was a cracker. loved the formation and the set up. kind of weird that we moved away from that in the following games (which we lost I think)

If claude and move away a bit from this narrow set up and get players in their right positions, we will be fine.

I dont think he will to be honest. Not any time soon

 

My team (not that Puel will do this at all)

 

Forster

 

Cedric Fonte VvD Bertrand/Targett

 

Hoj Rom

 

Redmond Davis Tadic

 

Austin

 

 

Mac, Yoshida, Targett/Bertrand, Clasie, JwP, Long, Rodriguez

Edited by Batman
The9

The9

Posted
Posted
The pessimism is because we have not spent 35 milion on a marque player and we are playing a formation that most of the fans are not used to and by the look of the first two games neither are the players.

 

I'd say the players are acutely aware of the formation and what they'd been asked to do from their choices at Old Trafford - they kept it on the deck and tried to play the ball around the back on the ground, rather than standing it up for the tall blokes we don't have to not head it. What we are sorely lacking (aside from height) is a playmaker to pick the passes, and a defence (including DM) that is at full strength and fitness to stop us conceding in every game and putting us in a position where we have to break down established, cautious defences.

The9

The9

Posted
Posted
I think there's a lot of romanticising last year's team. In my view, last year we were worse than in the previous two years yet because the general quality of the league was awful last year we still managed to finish higher anyway.

 

The performances against Newcastle, Everton and Watford at the start of last season were no better than the performances at the start of this season.

 

The performances against Bournemouth away, Norwich away, Midgetland away, Everton at home, Villa at home etc.. were far worse than either of our two performances this season.

 

As for Sat, I think Austin deserves a start. I would bring him in for Long.

 

We had a dreadful run in the middle of last season.

 

I'm not having all this "the league was awful" rubbish. Leicester won the league because they were the best team and put in the most effort over 38 matches. If the teams who try hardest finish above the ones with more technically talented players that doesn't mean the quality was poor, it means the application was poor.

 

Completely agree that we weren't much better than the season before though, our schedule and lack of Europa League fixtures when most of our top opponents had European games midweek helped us, even though our results weren't THAT much better than average. It's the same thing that'll cost us points this season in games following European matches when we're on the other side of it.

 

I didn't think Norwich away was that bad, considering Wanyama's lack of effort throughout and how the 10 men did, not to mention the run we were on. The others were dire though.

The9

The9

Posted
Posted
Can I cheat and invert the tip of the diamond?

 

---------------Forster---------------

Pied---Fonte---Van Dijk---Targett

---------------Romeu---------------

----------Davis----Hojbjerg----------

----Redmond------------Tadic----

---------------Austin---------------

 

You mean play last season's formation but without anyone up front to hold it up? It'll be like watching us in 2011 when Lambert was unavailable.

SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
You mean play last season's formation but without anyone up front to hold it up? It'll be like watching us in 2011 when Lambert was unavailable.

 

Who holds it up for us at the moment?

Lets B Avenue

Lets B Avenue

Posted
Posted
This

 

last years team was exciting & you could see the goal threat this team just looks distinctly average & the type of football we seem to play is just as boring, i.e let's pass to each other all day long & prove we can keep possession but not really do anything with it

 

Well that's odd? Every time you posted last year, was to say how shyte we were.

whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Well that's odd? Every time you posted last year, was to say how shyte we were.

 

Batman's upset Pelle has gone. Easy to spot a trend each season. Wait for proper bad season like what we used to have. Wee wee everywhere

ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted
Batman's upset Pelle has gone. Easy to spot a trend each season. Wait for proper bad season like what we used to have. Wee wee everywhere

 

He's gonna be slagging Redmond this season #needforascapegoat

Ziggy

Ziggy

Posted
Posted
Not feeling the pessimism. We'll smash 'em 8-0 again!!! :lol:

 

I had to miss that game (my wife had a significant birthday) so I hope you're right!

whoateallthepies

whoateallthepies

Posted
Posted
Last year we had 2 points after 3 games:

 

2-2 draw with Newcastle.

 

Lost 3-0 to Everton.

 

0-0 draw with Watford.

 

And still managed to improve pointswise. I guess we won't be finishing in the top 10, but I think Puel has a plan and with right players we're going to improve. I don't think we looked that bad against Watford and United either, United would've won against any team that friday. What we do need though, is a clinical striker.

 

Fingers crossed, hope we get as many points as we can before the Europa League begins proper.

 

That last point is the key. Europa means 6 extra matches minimum; and that's 6 x we have to play PL matches close to the Thursday with little time to recover. That has huge implications for a squad entering a full on European competition. Injuries already to Bertrand and Romeu and there will be more as the season progresses. Throw in the odd suspension and lack of activity in the transfer market and the board are asking way too much. I truly hope they have hit on some genius plan that nobody in the game has ever figured out - but forgive me for fearing the worst.

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Posted
Posted

The diamond not used for the u23's tonight!

 

We could have just seen the death of the diamond!! Wonder if Reed has had an intervention and "persuaded" Puel to drop it effective immediately?

SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
No one, because we don't play like that.

 

I know, maybe we should which is why I put Austin up front in that role in my formation.

 

(He's not great at it, but he's the best we've got).

Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

Posted
Posted
That last point is the key. Europa means 6 extra matches minimum; and that's 6 x we have to play PL matches close to the Thursday with little time to recover. That has huge implications for a squad entering a full on European competition. Injuries already to Bertrand and Romeu and there will be more as the season progresses. Throw in the odd suspension and lack of activity in the transfer market and the board are asking way too much. I truly hope they have hit on some genius plan that nobody in the game has ever figured out - but forgive me for fearing the worst.

 

If we play the U23 team in Europe then we can demonstrate quicker progression of the academy players to the first team and save the first team for the weekend (they wouldn't even need to travel!). We would then break the mould of teams with a hangover after European games as our first team would just have an extra days recovery from the weekend before! Everyone's a winner!

kjurwi

kjurwi

Posted
Posted

2-0. Tadic and Höjbjerg scores.

 

..............Forster.........

Pied..VvD..Fonte..Targett/Bertrand

...............Romeo................

........Clasie........Höjbjerg......

................Tadic...................

...Redmond......Jayrod............

Dalek2003

Dalek2003

Posted
Posted
Must win, game. Obviously a must win. Hard to imagine otherwise.

 

Everything hinges on the result of the next 90 minutes. Virtually everything.

 

Yes, and we only have 35 games after that to turn things around.

Mallagroth

Mallagroth

Posted
Posted
I think I am in a total minority! I thought we played really well in the first half at old Trafford with the said diamond that most hate! One move should have ended up with an open goal header for Long but cross was over hit, Long narrowly missed with De Gea well beaten and he also scuffed that dribbler! The ball should never have found Rooney for Zlatan's opener (fantastic header) and the Shaw dive effectively killed us off! Not saying the world is rosy, but with the inclusion of a new striker and CAM, I believe we have makings of an exciting side! Personal opinion yes, but I am looking forward.

 

With you on this one. Man Utd will spank a few teams at home, we did admirably, with players and manager still finding their feet. 2 players in and a couple more games to find our feet then we will know.

PhilippineSaint

PhilippineSaint

Posted
Posted
Must win, game. Obviously a must win. Hard to imagine otherwise.

 

Everything hinges on the result of the next 90 minutes. Virtually everything.

 

Every game to a supporter is a must win game

 

Its the bed wetting that comes when we don't win, but bed wetting before its kicked off thats bad and you should try and lighten up a little.

 

Its only a bloody game

Sydenhampton

Sydenhampton

Posted
Posted
I had to miss that game (my wife had a significant birthday) so I hope you're right!

 

Harsh!!

 

Well I'm no mystic meg unfortunately. I said we'd have Zlatan in our pocket last week. We can win though, and should. COYS!

West End Saint

West End Saint

Posted
Posted

I have said on other threads I don't get the reason for using this system, we finished last season with

the 2nd best form in the entire league and decided to halt that momentum and play a system we have not got the squad for

 

I cannot see where the goals are going to come from playing this way, might get a draw or a 1-0 win hope we do but I believe we need to change system or bring in players or we will struggle this season.

UpweySaint

UpweySaint

Posted
Posted
You're not alone. I was there and thought we were a striker short of giving them a bloody nose (again), but this time not in a back to the walls hit them in the 90th minute way.

 

We looked good in decent spells during the first half, despite us rather falling away after the pen I came away with more confidence then I did after being at the Watford game. Though I do think we are a little short and could do with two, or possible three, players who would thrive in a diamond. As much as the board and Puel are publicly giving out the 'no business' line I believe that there would not be so many rumours around similar players if we were not still actively looking to recruit.

 

As for Sunderland hopefully we will find a cutting edge up front and put away an early chance. If we do I could see the flexibility provided by the diamond allowing the likes of Tadic and Redmond to have some joy with Sunderland. The obvious concerning being if they pinch an early goal and we dip again.

 

Million miles away from must win territory but a poor Sunderland at home would be a good chance for Puel's first win to get the ball rolling for us a little and maybe encourage some patience from the doubters.

SaintTex

SaintTex

Posted
Posted
Want:

Forster

Pied - Fonte - van Dijk - Bertrand

Romeu - Hojbjerg

Long - Tadic - Redmond

Austin

you know, I was liking this, but doesn't Redmond prefer to play on the right? And Tadic on the left? Didn't Koeman fiddle with playing Long behind Pelle a bit last season with some success. How about?

 

-------------Forster----------------

Pied - Fonte - van Dijk - Bertrand

------Romeu - Hojbjerg-----------

--Redmond -- Long -- Tadic------

---------------Austin---------------

striker

striker

Posted
Posted

I can't see Puel switching formations for Sunderland. Its too early for him to give up on his diamond. He only switches out of it when he is losing late in games it seems (which if you think about it is telling).

Lets B Avenue

Lets B Avenue

Posted
Posted
I can't see Puel switching formations for Sunderland. Its too early for him to give up on his diamond. He only switches out of it when he is losing late in games it seems (which if you think about it is telling).

 

So a bit like every other manager in every other league. (Which if you tell about it is thinking).

The9

The9

Posted
Posted
I have said on other threads I don't get the reason for using this system, we finished last season with

the 2nd best form in the entire league and decided to halt that momentum and play a system we have not got the squad for

 

I cannot see where the goals are going to come from playing this way, might get a draw or a 1-0 win hope we do but I believe we need to change system or bring in players or we will struggle this season.

 

Would the fact we sold the striker that was key to our success in that formation not even be a little clue that we might need to change formation? We have no-one remotely like Pelle in the squad at the moment.

 

Interesting that the U23s are playing 4-2-3-1 though, could be that we will retain that and sign a replacement target man.

West End Saint

West End Saint

Posted
Posted
Would the fact we sold the striker that was key to our success in that formation not even be a little clue that we might need to change formation? We have no-one remotely like Pelle in the squad at the moment.

 

Interesting that the U23s are playing 4-2-3-1 though, could be that we will retain that and sign a replacement target man.

 

The fact we sold two strikers have not replaced them and are playing a system that we have not got the players for and the squad is not used too is baffling me. I keep hoping that something will happen that will make all become clear.

The9

The9

Posted
Posted
The fact we sold two strikers have not replaced them and are playing a system that we have not got the players for and the squad is not used too is baffling me. I keep hoping that something will happen that will make all become clear.

 

We signed Austin in advance of selling Pelle and Redmond to replace Mane. Not sure how that's "have not replaced them". Our issues are to do with predictability going forward (which changing the formation for Austin to play up top *might* resolve) and a lack of first choice defensively-minded players.

 

There's no guarantee we'll be sticking with 4-1-2-1-2 and the U23s playing 4-2-3-1 last night suggests the diamond might be temporary (just like 5 at the back and 4 in midfield was temporary last season at Watford).

vectraman

vectraman

Posted
Posted
If we play the U23 team in Europe then we can demonstrate quicker progression of the academy players to the first team and save the first team for the weekend (they wouldn't even need to travel!). We would then break the mould of teams with a hangover after European games as our first team would just have an extra days recovery from the weekend before! Everyone's a winner!

 

Apart from we'd lose probably every Europa game, making the whole excitement of making the group stage irrelevant. I want us to do well in the competition...

syd_barrett_saint

syd_barrett_saint

Posted
Posted

I like the idea of trying either Long or Redmond as the number 10 (perhaps interchanging through the match), to have a bit more pace/running/pressing through the middle. Would also allow us to give Austin a start, and I think he deserves a run in the team from the start, as no one else in our squad has the kind of goalscoring record he does.

 

We could bring Tadic on if it's a tight game and we end up struggling to unlock their defense. Perhaps at the expense of Davis, to go more attacking.

 

..............Forster................

Cedric...Fonte...Van Dijk...Targett/Bertrand

...............Romeu................

.......Höjbjerg.......Davis.......

.............Long/Redmond........

...Redmond/Long......Austin....

 

Subs: McCarthy, Pied, Yoshida, Bertrand/Targett, Clasie, Tadic, J Rod

Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted
We signed Austin in advance of selling Pelle and Redmond to replace Mane. Not sure how that's "have not replaced them". Our issues are to do with predictability going forward (which changing the formation for Austin to play up top *might* resolve) and a lack of first choice defensively-minded players.

 

There's no guarantee we'll be sticking with 4-1-2-1-2 and the U23s playing 4-2-3-1 last night suggests the diamond might be temporary (just like 5 at the back and 4 in midfield was temporary last season at Watford).

 

We replaced Pelle & Mane with inferior players that's the issue here a huge step down in quality anyone can see that including the teams we play against they know we are weak in attack

striker

striker

Posted
Posted

I personally don't think Pelle would be starting in Puels diamond. Like Austin he isn't what Puel wants. He wants attacking mid types more than target strikers.

West End Saint

West End Saint

Posted
Posted
We signed Austin in advance of selling Pelle and Redmond to replace Mane. Not sure how that's "have not replaced them". Our issues are to do with predictability going forward (which changing the formation for Austin to play up top *might* resolve) and a lack of first choice defensively-minded players.

 

There's no guarantee we'll be sticking with 4-1-2-1-2 and the U23s playing 4-2-3-1 last night suggests the diamond might be temporary (just like 5 at the back and 4 in midfield was temporary last season at Watford).

 

Most managers would want two players for one position I was under the impression Austin was an alternative to Pelle and at this moment Redmond is nowhere near a replacement for Mane. We have taken best part of 30 goals and replaced with a winger that may be turned in to a striker, massive gamble IMO

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