Man Utd v Saints Post Match Hmmmmm.....

[Dangermouth]

Puel: look at the Arsenal forums. They’re fed up with Wenger’s obstinacy. 20 years and he hasn’t changed. Puel is possibly more obdurate. And really, how successful has Wenger been? Success = winning. With the resources at his disposal (Cazorla, Ozil, etc?). I’ve said we could end up as Arsenal-lite and that’s a distinct possibility. I can see this season having been slated as one of ‘consolidation’ but next season he’ll be expected to be back up there. And consolidation does mean top 8. If, as I suspect, he doesn’t cut the mustard or digs his heels in he’ll go, however, and his replacement is already lined up. Although if we don’t get who I think it is in the next 3 years we might not get him at all. Finally, it will be interesting to see how Puel reacts when he finally learns how defensively strong this league is and how matches against e.g. Wrexham away are so ‘physical’ and how much fun it is to play potentially 6 games in 12 days (Dec/Jan time).

 

Redmond. I’ve said I think he’ll flatter to deceive. I’ve watched him a lot playing for the England youth teams. He has developed from the kid with speed and quick feet who will incessantly dribble into an alley or make something happen (ratio of each occurrence being about 10:1) to someone who is a bit more of a team player. I will give credit to Southgate for that and take it that Saints think that if they can approach him in the right way mentally then they can get him to open himself up to being developed. Part of his problem is mental – he won’t try and go through a space like Gascoigne would but try and go round a player which makes him ineffective. And he’s too one-footed. Basically, he’s **** against a good defence where they out-psyche him.

 

Unlike a lot on here I recognise how intelligent as a footballer JRod is. You can see he thinks 2-3 steps ahead of where the game is but you can also see he needs to just play to regain his confidence so he plays instinctively. If a loan is required, so be it. I remember many weren’t impressed after his debut: he will take time to come good.

 

Austin. Wasn’t impressed by his signing. Now I think he’s exactly what any team wants if they can get him in the right areas – I like the way when he’s in on goal he both comes alive but also has this coldness about him that you can tell means he’s not frightened by the goal-scoring opportunity. He almost needs the Tadic role if that’s the furthest forward player but you can’t have too many attack minded players who focus less on defence with our weak midfield.

 

Hojbjerg is the ****. If we as a club improve well enough we can keep him throughout his career, develop him (he can still improve) and bring in more players of his ilk. He’s the polar opposite of JWP: both mentally and physically he’s a footballer. I think the reasons for keeping JWP now are as much strategic as they are playing. And he may still develop, but I don’t think he’s a footballer.

 

Formations? As Pochettino said, it’s where players start from but all systems have to be fluid: it’s how the game is played. You would hope that a footballer could adapt their game and the team’s to suit the circumstances without having to be told e.g. It’s a mud-bath out there, don’t bother with short passing.”, but maybe some are that stupid. So apart from coaching and training and re-training until it’s second nature certain aspects of a game-plan what you should look for is flexibility of approach. And again, that’s the mental side of the game. Saints aren’t that strong in that area. It’s possibly the strongest area of Mourinho who otherwise isn’t much of anything than a ****. The difficulty is what is demanded of a player when they can’t do it e.g. Austin tracking back, Long playing with his back to the game or becoming a 1 in 2 striker. And Long is pretty smart football-wise actually, I just think his musculature may play a part in why he doesn’t quite hit the target as well and as often as we’d like. Basically if we could sign Austin and Redmond’s 20 year old love child we’d have a ton of goals.

 

The player we lost out on (I guess) is Ziyech. Twente set a price and we didn’t recognise that the Dutch negotiate very much from a ‘take it or leave it’ perspective. That’s my guess, anyway.

 

We have a new ITK, as ratified by Guan: AR-10. S/he has told us they’re a company plant, however:

Comment 1: The club doesn’t let any information out that it doesn’t want out;

 

Comment 2 (and so on): This is what I know: i.e. they’re a plant.

 

I asked about strategy and the change in it. And the question has been indirectly answered, if not fully. As AR10 said: we want to be CL-ready by 2020. What does that mean? Everyone else said ‘bigger stadium’. No.

That will come eventually; it has to for obvious reasons. The key driver is FFP but there is another underlying part of the strategy too: namely that a lot of what SFC do is ‘consciousness management’ or subtle advertising e.g. get a following in Kenya by signing Wanyama, The Southampton Way, etc. A lot is predicated on football success as is all of it, hence Puel being on a knife’s edge, but it’s simply making the name more well-known and for certain things so that people then readily accept that they can buy the shirt etc as commercial revenue is essential as matters stand for the club to be able to compete at CL level. And they’ll want to compete with the big boys eventually, not just look at the group stages. Hence Puel, possibly, with a strong emphasis on doing well in Europe.

What we should expect to see for the next 3 years or so is 15 very good players and 10 not so good – the Martinas of this world. This is so the wage budget can be grown as quickly and efficiently as we can do so: hence the long term deals. The club want sufficient success 2-3 years down the line so that players like e.g. VVD, PEH will want to sign extensions. I think it’s clear PEH wants football success far more than loads of dosh. That’s the kind of player we want.

 

You’ll notice the number of ‘youth’ on the bench at the games so far. That’s an indication of how good they are. To an extent, anyway, and it does ratify RK’s assessment. But there’ll be more of an emphasis on that side of it because of the league/CL/EL requirements and we will see players coming through e.g. Gallagher/Stephens.

 

It’s obvious that there is an interesting strategy going on at SFC: much to do with what Cortese put in place ironically I would think particularly as some of it is (relative to the world of football) quite innovative and does not just follow e.g. ‘Soccernomics’ but looks to do something more with it.

 

Man Utd were ****: just more effective than us; they won’t win the league.

 

Shaw dived: his foot hit the back of his calf cleanly and with no deviation indicative of its having been pushed off course in the way that a slight nick would have done i.e. he planted his foot cleanly into the back of his gastrocnemius in a controlled manner which would not have been the case were he to have been hit in a manner that was (to him) uncontrolled. I assume the Saints players didn’t complain because it would simply have meant that the Manchester-based referee (I believe he comes from Wythenshawe) would have booked them.

[Wade Garrett]

I understand where you are coming from but every year we are having to rebuild, that is a hard enough thing to do in itself without then presenting the team with a new system that nobody plays in the Premier and the players struggle with. I would submit that a manager admitting surprise at the physicality of Watford is a manager not ready for the Premier. We don't need a manager that is ill prepared for the challenges but arrogant enough to think that his system and radical change is the answer. We needed to hit the ground running not struggling to work out how to play together.

 

I'm wondering if his mentor who doesn't play a diamond has put his thumb print on this. The same mentor that turned what was potentially the quickest wide player for years into a support player to come inside and be overlapped by a full back. Walcott was then moved inside and compared with Thierry Henry, how did that work out? I've heard something similarly stupid lately about Redmond.

 

Pellegrini is well versed in Watford's strengths and weaknesses.

 

Just saying.

[adrian lord]

Puel: look at the Arsenal forums. They’re fed up with Wenger’s obstinacy. 20 years and he hasn’t changed. Puel is possibly more obdurate. And really, how successful has Wenger been? Success = winning. With the resources at his disposal (Cazorla, Ozil, etc?). I’ve said we could end up as Arsenal-lite and that’s a distinct possibility. I can see this season having been slated as one of ‘consolidation’ but next season he’ll be expected to be back up there. And consolidation does mean top 8. If, as I suspect, he doesn’t cut the mustard or digs his heels in he’ll go, however, and his replacement is already lined up. Although if we don’t get who I think it is in the next 3 years we might not get him at all. Finally, it will be interesting to see how Puel reacts when he finally learns how defensively strong this league is and how matches against e.g. Wrexham away are so ‘physical’ and how much fun it is to play potentially 6 games in 12 days (Dec/Jan time).

 

Redmond. I’ve said I think he’ll flatter to deceive. I’ve watched him a lot playing for the England youth teams. He has developed from the kid with speed and quick feet who will incessantly dribble into an alley or make something happen (ratio of each occurrence being about 10:1) to someone who is a bit more of a team player. I will give credit to Southgate for that and take it that Saints think that if they can approach him in the right way mentally then they can get him to open himself up to being developed. Part of his problem is mental – he won’t try and go through a space like Gascoigne would but try and go round a player which makes him ineffective. And he’s too one-footed. Basically, he’s **** against a good defence where they out-psyche him.

 

Unlike a lot on here I recognise how intelligent as a footballer JRod is. You can see he thinks 2-3 steps ahead of where the game is but you can also see he needs to just play to regain his confidence so he plays instinctively. If a loan is required, so be it. I remember many weren’t impressed after his debut: he will take time to come good.

 

Austin. Wasn’t impressed by his signing. Now I think he’s exactly what any team wants if they can get him in the right areas – I like the way when he’s in on goal he both comes alive but also has this coldness about him that you can tell means he’s not frightened by the goal-scoring opportunity. He almost needs the Tadic role if that’s the furthest forward player but you can’t have too many attack minded players who focus less on defence with our weak midfield.

 

Hojbjerg is the ****. If we as a club improve well enough we can keep him throughout his career, develop him (he can still improve) and bring in more players of his ilk. He’s the polar opposite of JWP: both mentally and physically he’s a footballer. I think the reasons for keeping JWP now are as much strategic as they are playing. And he may still develop, but I don’t think he’s a footballer.

 

Formations? As Pochettino said, it’s where players start from but all systems have to be fluid: it’s how the game is played. You would hope that a footballer could adapt their game and the team’s to suit the circumstances without having to be told e.g. It’s a mud-bath out there, don’t bother with short passing.”, but maybe some are that stupid. So apart from coaching and training and re-training until it’s second nature certain aspects of a game-plan what you should look for is flexibility of approach. And again, that’s the mental side of the game. Saints aren’t that strong in that area. It’s possibly the strongest area of Mourinho who otherwise isn’t much of anything than a ****. The difficulty is what is demanded of a player when they can’t do it e.g. Austin tracking back, Long playing with his back to the game or becoming a 1 in 2 striker. And Long is pretty smart football-wise actually, I just think his musculature may play a part in why he doesn’t quite hit the target as well and as often as we’d like. Basically if we could sign Austin and Redmond’s 20 year old love child we’d have a ton of goals.

 

The player we lost out on (I guess) is Ziyech. Twente set a price and we didn’t recognise that the Dutch negotiate very much from a ‘take it or leave it’ perspective. That’s my guess, anyway.

 

We have a new ITK, as ratified by Guan: AR-10. S/he has told us they’re a company plant, however:

Comment 1: The club doesn’t let any information out that it doesn’t want out;

 

Comment 2 (and so on): This is what I know: i.e. they’re a plant.

 

I asked about strategy and the change in it. And the question has been indirectly answered, if not fully. As AR10 said: we want to be CL-ready by 2020. What does that mean? Everyone else said ‘bigger stadium’. No.

That will come eventually; it has to for obvious reasons. The key driver is FFP but there is another underlying part of the strategy too: namely that a lot of what SFC do is ‘consciousness management’ or subtle advertising e.g. get a following in Kenya by signing Wanyama, The Southampton Way, etc. A lot is predicated on football success as is all of it, hence Puel being on a knife’s edge, but it’s simply making the name more well-known and for certain things so that people then readily accept that they can buy the shirt etc as commercial revenue is essential as matters stand for the club to be able to compete at CL level. And they’ll want to compete with the big boys eventually, not just look at the group stages. Hence Puel, possibly, with a strong emphasis on doing well in Europe.

What we should expect to see for the next 3 years or so is 15 very good players and 10 not so good – the Martinas of this world. This is so the wage budget can be grown as quickly and efficiently as we can do so: hence the long term deals. The club want sufficient success 2-3 years down the line so that players like e.g. VVD, PEH will want to sign extensions. I think it’s clear PEH wants football success far more than loads of dosh. That’s the kind of player we want.

 

You’ll notice the number of ‘youth’ on the bench at the games so far. That’s an indication of how good they are. To an extent, anyway, and it does ratify RK’s assessment. But there’ll be more of an emphasis on that side of it because of the league/CL/EL requirements and we will see players coming through e.g. Gallagher/Stephens.

 

It’s obvious that there is an interesting strategy going on at SFC: much to do with what Cortese put in place ironically I would think particularly as some of it is (relative to the world of football) quite innovative and does not just follow e.g. ‘Soccernomics’ but looks to do something more with it.

 

Man Utd were ****: just more effective than us; they won’t win the league.

 

Shaw dived: his foot hit the back of his calf cleanly and with no deviation indicative of its having been pushed off course in the way that a slight nick would have done i.e. he planted his foot cleanly into the back of his gastrocnemius in a controlled manner which would not have been the case were he to have been hit in a manner that was (to him) uncontrolled. I assume the Saints players didn’t complain because it would simply have meant that the Manchester-based referee (I believe he comes from Wythenshawe) would have booked them.

 

Thank you.

[sandwichsaint]

Puel: look at the Arsenal forums. They’re fed up with Wenger’s obstinacy. 20 years and he hasn’t changed. Puel is possibly more obdurate. And really, how successful has Wenger been? Success = winning. With the resources at his disposal (Cazorla, Ozil, etc?). I’ve said we could end up as Arsenal-lite and that’s a distinct possibility. I can see this season having been slated as one of ‘consolidation’ but next season he’ll be expected to be back up there. And consolidation does mean top 8. If, as I suspect, he doesn’t cut the mustard or digs his heels in he’ll go, however, and his replacement is already lined up. Although if we don’t get who I think it is in the next 3 years we might not get him at all. Finally, it will be interesting to see how Puel reacts when he finally learns how defensively strong this league is and how matches against e.g. Wrexham away are so ‘physical’ and how much fun it is to play potentially 6 games in 12 days (Dec/Jan time).

 

Redmond. I’ve said I think he’ll flatter to deceive. I’ve watched him a lot playing for the England youth teams. He has developed from the kid with speed and quick feet who will incessantly dribble into an alley or make something happen (ratio of each occurrence being about 10:1) to someone who is a bit more of a team player. I will give credit to Southgate for that and take it that Saints think that if they can approach him in the right way mentally then they can get him to open himself up to being developed. Part of his problem is mental – he won’t try and go through a space like Gascoigne would but try and go round a player which makes him ineffective. And he’s too one-footed. Basically, he’s **** against a good defence where they out-psyche him.

 

Unlike a lot on here I recognise how intelligent as a footballer JRod is. You can see he thinks 2-3 steps ahead of where the game is but you can also see he needs to just play to regain his confidence so he plays instinctively. If a loan is required, so be it. I remember many weren’t impressed after his debut: he will take time to come good.

 

Austin. Wasn’t impressed by his signing. Now I think he’s exactly what any team wants if they can get him in the right areas – I like the way when he’s in on goal he both comes alive but also has this coldness about him that you can tell means he’s not frightened by the goal-scoring opportunity. He almost needs the Tadic role if that’s the furthest forward player but you can’t have too many attack minded players who focus less on defence with our weak midfield.

 

Hojbjerg is the ****. If we as a club improve well enough we can keep him throughout his career, develop him (he can still improve) and bring in more players of his ilk. He’s the polar opposite of JWP: both mentally and physically he’s a footballer. I think the reasons for keeping JWP now are as much strategic as they are playing. And he may still develop, but I don’t think he’s a footballer.

 

Formations? As Pochettino said, it’s where players start from but all systems have to be fluid: it’s how the game is played. You would hope that a footballer could adapt their game and the team’s to suit the circumstances without having to be told e.g. It’s a mud-bath out there, don’t bother with short passing.”, but maybe some are that stupid. So apart from coaching and training and re-training until it’s second nature certain aspects of a game-plan what you should look for is flexibility of approach. And again, that’s the mental side of the game. Saints aren’t that strong in that area. It’s possibly the strongest area of Mourinho who otherwise isn’t much of anything than a ****. The difficulty is what is demanded of a player when they can’t do it e.g. Austin tracking back, Long playing with his back to the game or becoming a 1 in 2 striker. And Long is pretty smart football-wise actually, I just think his musculature may play a part in why he doesn’t quite hit the target as well and as often as we’d like. Basically if we could sign Austin and Redmond’s 20 year old love child we’d have a ton of goals.

 

The player we lost out on (I guess) is Ziyech. Twente set a price and we didn’t recognise that the Dutch negotiate very much from a ‘take it or leave it’ perspective. That’s my guess, anyway.

 

We have a new ITK, as ratified by Guan: AR-10. S/he has told us they’re a company plant, however:

Comment 1: The club doesn’t let any information out that it doesn’t want out;

 

Comment 2 (and so on): This is what I know: i.e. they’re a plant.

 

I asked about strategy and the change in it. And the question has been indirectly answered, if not fully. As AR10 said: we want to be CL-ready by 2020. What does that mean? Everyone else said ‘bigger stadium’. No.

That will come eventually; it has to for obvious reasons. The key driver is FFP but there is another underlying part of the strategy too: namely that a lot of what SFC do is ‘consciousness management’ or subtle advertising e.g. get a following in Kenya by signing Wanyama, The Southampton Way, etc. A lot is predicated on football success as is all of it, hence Puel being on a knife’s edge, but it’s simply making the name more well-known and for certain things so that people then readily accept that they can buy the shirt etc as commercial revenue is essential as matters stand for the club to be able to compete at CL level. And they’ll want to compete with the big boys eventually, not just look at the group stages. Hence Puel, possibly, with a strong emphasis on doing well in Europe.

What we should expect to see for the next 3 years or so is 15 very good players and 10 not so good – the Martinas of this world. This is so the wage budget can be grown as quickly and efficiently as we can do so: hence the long term deals. The club want sufficient success 2-3 years down the line so that players like e.g. VVD, PEH will want to sign extensions. I think it’s clear PEH wants football success far more than loads of dosh. That’s the kind of player we want.

 

You’ll notice the number of ‘youth’ on the bench at the games so far. That’s an indication of how good they are. To an extent, anyway, and it does ratify RK’s assessment. But there’ll be more of an emphasis on that side of it because of the league/CL/EL requirements and we will see players coming through e.g. Gallagher/Stephens.

 

It’s obvious that there is an interesting strategy going on at SFC: much to do with what Cortese put in place ironically I would think particularly as some of it is (relative to the world of football) quite innovative and does not just follow e.g. ‘Soccernomics’ but looks to do something more with it.

 

Man Utd were ****: just more effective than us; they won’t win the league.

 

Shaw dived: his foot hit the back of his calf cleanly and with no deviation indicative of its having been pushed off course in the way that a slight nick would have done i.e. he planted his foot cleanly into the back of his gastrocnemius in a controlled manner which would not have been the case were he to have been hit in a manner that was (to him) uncontrolled. I assume the Saints players didn’t complain because it would simply have meant that the Manchester-based referee (I believe he comes from Wythenshawe) would have booked them.

 

If we were serious about being in CL in 3 seasons time we would have been better off paying RK what he wanted and keeping Mane another 12 months ..... just saying.

 

Who is the mystery manager in waiting who is only available for another three years? I'll say Eddie Howe.

 

Good penalty analysis too, agree with all of that.

[Graffito]

Only saw it in real time and it looked soft. Saw it on MoTD and it was a dive.

[OldNick]

Puel: look at the Arsenal forums. They’re fed up with Wenger’s obstinacy. 20 years and he hasn’t changed. Puel is possibly more obdurate. And really, how successful has Wenger been? Success = winning. With the resources at his disposal (Cazorla, Ozil, etc?). I’ve said we could end up as Arsenal-lite and that’s a distinct possibility. I can see this season having been slated as one of ‘consolidation’ but next season he’ll be expected to be back up there. And consolidation does mean top 8. If, as I suspect, he doesn’t cut the mustard or digs his heels in he’ll go, however, and his replacement is already lined up. Although if we don’t get who I think it is in the next 3 years we might not get him at all. Finally, it will be interesting to see how Puel reacts when he finally learns how defensively strong this league is and how matches against e.g. Wrexham away are so ‘physical’ and how much fun it is to play potentially 6 games in 12 days (Dec/Jan time).

 

Redmond. I’ve said I think he’ll flatter to deceive. I’ve watched him a lot playing for the England youth teams. He has developed from the kid with speed and quick feet who will incessantly dribble into an alley or make something happen (ratio of each occurrence being about 10:1) to someone who is a bit more of a team player. I will give credit to Southgate for that and take it that Saints think that if they can approach him in the right way mentally then they can get him to open himself up to being developed. Part of his problem is mental – he won’t try and go through a space like Gascoigne would but try and go round a player which makes him ineffective. And he’s too one-footed. Basically, he’s **** against a good defence where they out-psyche him.

 

Unlike a lot on here I recognise how intelligent as a footballer JRod is. You can see he thinks 2-3 steps ahead of where the game is but you can also see he needs to just play to regain his confidence so he plays instinctively. If a loan is required, so be it. I remember many weren’t impressed after his debut: he will take time to come good.

 

Austin. Wasn’t impressed by his signing. Now I think he’s exactly what any team wants if they can get him in the right areas – I like the way when he’s in on goal he both comes alive but also has this coldness about him that you can tell means he’s not frightened by the goal-scoring opportunity. He almost needs the Tadic role if that’s the furthest forward player but you can’t have too many attack minded players who focus less on defence with our weak midfield.

 

Hojbjerg is the ****. If we as a club improve well enough we can keep him throughout his career, develop him (he can still improve) and bring in more players of his ilk. He’s the polar opposite of JWP: both mentally and physically he’s a footballer. I think the reasons for keeping JWP now are as much strategic as they are playing. And he may still develop, but I don’t think he’s a footballer.

 

Formations? As Pochettino said, it’s where players start from but all systems have to be fluid: it’s how the game is played. You would hope that a footballer could adapt their game and the team’s to suit the circumstances without having to be told e.g. It’s a mud-bath out there, don’t bother with short passing.”, but maybe some are that stupid. So apart from coaching and training and re-training until it’s second nature certain aspects of a game-plan what you should look for is flexibility of approach. And again, that’s the mental side of the game. Saints aren’t that strong in that area. It’s possibly the strongest area of Mourinho who otherwise isn’t much of anything than a ****. The difficulty is what is demanded of a player when they can’t do it e.g. Austin tracking back, Long playing with his back to the game or becoming a 1 in 2 striker. And Long is pretty smart football-wise actually, I just think his musculature may play a part in why he doesn’t quite hit the target as well and as often as we’d like. Basically if we could sign Austin and Redmond’s 20 year old love child we’d have a ton of goals.

 

The player we lost out on (I guess) is Ziyech. Twente set a price and we didn’t recognise that the Dutch negotiate very much from a ‘take it or leave it’ perspective. That’s my guess, anyway.

 

We have a new ITK, as ratified by Guan: AR-10. S/he has told us they’re a company plant, however:

Comment 1: The club doesn’t let any information out that it doesn’t want out;

 

Comment 2 (and so on): This is what I know: i.e. they’re a plant.

 

I asked about strategy and the change in it. And the question has been indirectly answered, if not fully. As AR10 said: we want to be CL-ready by 2020. What does that mean? Everyone else said ‘bigger stadium’. No.

That will come eventually; it has to for obvious reasons. The key driver is FFP but there is another underlying part of the strategy too: namely that a lot of what SFC do is ‘consciousness management’ or subtle advertising e.g. get a following in Kenya by signing Wanyama, The Southampton Way, etc. A lot is predicated on football success as is all of it, hence Puel being on a knife’s edge, but it’s simply making the name more well-known and for certain things so that people then readily accept that they can buy the shirt etc as commercial revenue is essential as matters stand for the club to be able to compete at CL level. And they’ll want to compete with the big boys eventually, not just look at the group stages. Hence Puel, possibly, with a strong emphasis on doing well in Europe.

What we should expect to see for the next 3 years or so is 15 very good players and 10 not so good – the Martinas of this world. This is so the wage budget can be grown as quickly and efficiently as we can do so: hence the long term deals. The club want sufficient success 2-3 years down the line so that players like e.g. VVD, PEH will want to sign extensions. I think it’s clear PEH wants football success far more than loads of dosh. That’s the kind of player we want.

 

You’ll notice the number of ‘youth’ on the bench at the games so far. That’s an indication of how good they are. To an extent, anyway, and it does ratify RK’s assessment. But there’ll be more of an emphasis on that side of it because of the league/CL/EL requirements and we will see players coming through e.g. Gallagher/Stephens.

 

It’s obvious that there is an interesting strategy going on at SFC: much to do with what Cortese put in place ironically I would think particularly as some of it is (relative to the world of football) quite innovative and does not just follow e.g. ‘Soccernomics’ but looks to do something more with it.

 

Man Utd were ****: just more effective than us; they won’t win the league.

 

Shaw dived: his foot hit the back of his calf cleanly and with no deviation indicative of its having been pushed off course in the way that a slight nick would have done i.e. he planted his foot cleanly into the back of his gastrocnemius in a controlled manner which would not have been the case were he to have been hit in a manner that was (to him) uncontrolled. I assume the Saints players didn’t complain because it would simply have meant that the Manchester-based referee (I believe he comes from Wythenshawe) would have booked them.

I assume all this is all in your humble opinion?

[websurfer]

Hey it was away game against Manchester United. We dominated the game at times. Exposed some lack of ideas up front though but it's difficult in front of a defensive Man. U. Overall a good performance IMO. It's early days so it was a promising performance away game against a top team.

[Whitey Grandad]

Only saw it in real time and it looked soft. Saw it on MoTD and it was a dive.

 

Saw it again on MOTD and Clasie clips Shaw's right calf pushing it onto his left leg and causing him to trip. It's there to see if you look for it. Clasie knew what he'd done straight away. It was a very clumsy attempt at a challenge and if he hadn't gone for Shaw with his arms he would have been in a better shape to cover his run. Very sloppy and right under the referee's nose.

[Webby]

Saw it again on MOTD and Clasie clips Shaw's right calf pushing it onto his left leg and causing him to trip. It's there to see if you look for it. Clasie knew what he'd done straight away. It was a very clumsy attempt at a challenge and if he hadn't gone for Shaw with his arms he would have been in a better shape to cover his run. Very sloppy and right under the referee's nose.

 

This. Totally. Anyone not seeing it needs to remove their saints tinted glasses.

[Dangermouth]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-news-fixtures-shaw-11778461

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPEWMuFrHfs

 

If anything, it was the foot that was caught. You'll need to look at this frame by frame but you can see Clasie is too slow to get to Shaw's knee. The movement is unnatural. I don't blame the referee for giving it, it looks a clear pen especially at the speed it occurs at, but then a lot of them do when they're not as difficult to see as that. Time to simply give free kicks for fouls anywhere on the pitch.

 

On a separate point, I agree with those who have to ask why the 'eye-candy' was on a crap football 'show' other than this is a Murdoch channel and that's what they do (so I'm not really asking, am I?).

 

As for the pioint raised by OldNick above. Humble? This is SaintsWeb.

[maxi_sopez]

Just got back from a lovely weekend in Manchester. Some thoughts:

 

Far better teams than us will go to Old Trafford this year and lose by more goals and have less chances. I thought up until Zlatan's first goal we were good and in control of the game, just didn't take major chance (Long), made me realise we need a striker, a clinical one who works in this new system.

Second half I thought we were ok but it was a lot of passing and not much else. Need to be far more ruthless in final third. I don't really get the diamond, but if that is what he wants to play he needs to buy a striker who works in the system.

 

It just felt to me watching as this is a slightly poorer team than last season, with none of the signings apart from Hojberg giving any indication that they will make us better.

 

Also I am probably reading far too much into this, but I thought the body language of some of the players were poor, not much talking and Fonte looked particularly miserable. I found it interesting as well Puel just walked straight down the tunnel no clapping of fans, don't really mind but surprised he didn't come over with players at end.

 

FINALLY - why were our fans singing ' Mourinho's right you're fans are ****e' - he said that at Chelsea about Chelsea fans. bugged me

[eelpie]

If we were serious about being in CL in 3 seasons time we would have been better off paying RK what he wanted and keeping Mane another 12 months ..... just saying.

 

Who is the mystery manager in waiting who is only available for another three years? I'll say Eddie Howe.

 

Good penalty analysis too, agree with all of that.

By then Howe will have his eye on the England job.

[redder freak]

IMHO the players were angry because they lost the match. They aren't used to losing. Which is a good thing.

[derry]

IMHO the players were angry because they lost the match. They aren't used to losing. Which is a good thing.

 

Could it be that you are nearly right however they realise that the team is not set up to give it's optimum performance because major players just don't like or believe in the way we are set up. It could be impotent frustration we are witnessing.

[kpturner]

FINALLY - why were our fans singing ' Mourinho's right you're fans are ****e' - he said that at Chelsea about Chelsea fans. bugged me

because he said the same about the Utd fans in the lead up to the game. HTH

[niceandfriendly]

We are doomed i tell ya, doomed

 

2 games in and we are doomed

 

Nothing to do with the 2 games. Everything to do with selling all your top players and not replacing them, whilst other teams around us buy top quality.

 

But doomed is WAY too strong. The Championship is a top league and great fun.

[Saints foreva]

Nothing to do with the 2 games. Everything to do with selling all your top players and not replacing them, whilst other teams around us buy top quality.

 

But doomed is WAY too strong. The Championship is a top league and great fun.

 

The 2005/06, 2007/08 and 2008/09 seasons didn't feel fun.

[sydneysaint]

Terrific post for my money as an ex-pat living in a former penal colony. please continue the good work. I can only watch the B.B.C. teletext on my laptop. I believe Saints Player will be available for free for overseas supporters. I am ITK on this as I have a reply to an email I sent to H.Q. re the vast market to be tapped into by such a move to embrace the unseen and silent fans such as me. I will still be looking for your future posts, they provide an insight that is completely different to what can be observed by watching a webcast. Thanks again Peter.

P.S. Don't bother with the doomsday soothsayers.

[sydneysaint]

Sorry intened for "Dangermouth" Peter

[spyinthesky]

Just got back...

 

The biggest problem we had last night was being a bunch of shortarses. They had 4 very tall players who weren't afraid to get forward in open play and we only had 2 who could compete against them in the air from crosses. Romeu going off early didn't help with that, especially with Clasie being even shorter. The lack of height (especially up front) was the reason we weren't putting crosses in the air and the reason we were overplaying it around the area over and over again. Defensively Zlatan against Cedric at the far post with Valencia steaming into the box was the worst thing I saw all game - they didn't create much more than us even though we looked toothless but looked like they could score from any cross. The narrow midfield letting Shaw advance 50 yards unchallenged on occasion didn't help either.

 

We're too easy to defend against as well, because whilst an excellent left winger, Tadic isn't a number 10 and doesn't get the ball enough in the right areas or use it creatively enough, and defences know we've got no height and can just set up to defend against through balls. Going behind also means we haven't been able to catch teams on the counter either, which is what the current formation and personnel are most set up for.

 

Forster spent the entire first half kicking long and immediately conceding possession as none of our midfield could compete with Fellaini or Pogba in the air - eventually word got out to play it on the deck and we immediately got down the wing and slung a decent low cross into the box.

 

Hjobjerg still looks good though. I think I'd probably put Rodriguez up top to give us some variety in attack as he offers a bit of an aerial threat and so does Long to a lesser extent. Redmond is great on the break but just dribbles sideways when near the area in front of an established defence - in that sense he definitely isn't a Mane replacement.

Those in our group who went were concerned about the height difference before the game and so it proved.

You are dead right that whenever Forster had to clear up field the ball came straight back.

 

Of the 50/50 midfield challenges I don't remember seeing us win one.

 

It gives me no pleasure to report that none of us expected Saints to score and so it proved.

 

Bringing Austin on to play wide was naïve to say the least.

 

On a non match related topic it would be interesting to see how many hotel rooms are booked by foreign Man U 'supporters' for home games, all decked out in their shiny new club related apparel.

 

I wonder how many of the 70k + home support actually live within the Manchester post code area.

 

Also interested to see two parties of Saints staff, all nicely logo'd up walking round central Manchester a couple of hours prior to the game

[saintant]

Three major things have changed from last season and that sets alarm bells ringing because it's too much upheaval - those three things are the manager, the playing system and the squad which is weaker for the loss of Mane, Wanyama and Pelle. I can't fathom out why we had to opt for a manager who was going to change the system - a high risk strategy....changing the manager was something we had no option over but we should have brought in one who was happy to play our way to give continuity. If we are not careful we will find ourselves playing catch-up and to make the diamond work I think we'll need to sign two or maybe even three quality players which I don't see us doing. I thought we prided ourselves on being a forward thinking club always operating three steps ahead but to change both the manager and system is bonkers in my book. I don't call that good planning.

[Whitey Grandad]

Three major things have changed from last season and that sets alarm bells ringing because it's too much upheaval - those three things are the manager, the playing system and the squad which is weaker for the loss of Mane, Wanyama and Pelle. I can't fathom out why we had to opt for a manager who was going to change the system - a high risk strategy....changing the manager was something we had no option over but we should have brought in one who was happy to play our way to give continuity. If we are not careful we will find ourselves playing catch-up and to make the diamond work I think we'll need to sign two or maybe even three quality players which I don't see us doing. I thought we prided ourselves on being a forward thinking club always operating three steps ahead but to change both the manager and system is bonkers in my book. I don't call that good planning.

 

I tend to agree. I can only assume that the club feel that we won't get relegated and that we may need to take a few steps back in order to progress further.

[Graffito]

This. Totally. Anyone not seeing it needs to remove their saints tinted glasses.

 

Have you considered that anyone not seeing it may simply not have seen what you saw?

[ADutchSaint]

I tend to agree. I can only assume that the club feel that we won't get relegated and that we may need to take a few steps back in order to progress further.

 

Its already hard in football to plan out one season, looking further then that is impossible since we will probably lose 2/3 key players next summer. If big clubs come knocking for VVD, Forster and Bertrand they will leave after 2/3 seasons with us.

 

Taking steps back is suicide in football, when your standing still you are already going backwards in todays game let alone taking steps on purpose...

 

I don't believe the club is willing to play dangerous games like that on purpose.

[Hodgey]

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks this new system has worked better than the old in the first few games. We are definately playing a high stakes game here - due to previous success without relatively quick success fans and more importantly players will turn. I also can't help but think that Puel isn't the sort to back down so something will have to give. Hopefully he'll be proved right - but you'd also hope he has the balls to demand some players in the window other than a free transfer right back to make the formation work. Frankly I'm worried that Reed, Black, Watson and Puel are not on the same page here (nor are the players).

[LGTL]

The journey up there was the worst I've ever experienced following saints. Absolute ****ing joke.

[Saint_clark]

The journey up there was the worst I've ever experienced following saints. Absolute ****ing joke.

 

It'll be the same for any friday game.

[Webby]

Have you considered that anyone not seeing it may simply not have seen what you saw?

 

No not really as it's there for all to see.

[VectisSaint]

Saw it again on MOTD and Clasie clips Shaw's right calf pushing it onto his left leg and causing him to trip. It's there to see if you look for it. Clasie knew what he'd done straight away. It was a very clumsy attempt at a challenge and if he hadn't gone for Shaw with his arms he would have been in a better shape to cover his run. Very sloppy and right under the referee's nose.

Hadn't seen it until last night on MOTD2. Was never a pen. Clasie did not make even the slightest contact and Shaw tripped over his own feet. I am not wearing saints tinted specs, I got mine from Specsavers. Never a pen in a hundred years. Clasie could not say much because of the new rules.

[Whitey Grandad]

Hadn't seen it until last night on MOTD2. Was never a pen. Clasie did not make even the slightest contact and Shaw tripped over his own feet. I am not wearing saints tinted specs, I got mine from Specsavers. Never a pen in a hundred years. Clasie could not say much because of the new rules.

 

No, Clasie definitely caught Shaw's right foot/ankle which pushed it onto the back of Shaw's left calf. If you think it's easy to do this yourself then give it a try. This is one illustration of where TV is not very good at showing the detail. All the players who were close by and the referee saw it clearly and accepted it.

Edited 22 August, 2016 by Whitey Grandad

[Special K]

No, Clasie definitely caught Shaw's right foot/ankle which pushed it onto the back of Shaw's left calf. If you think it's easy to do this yourself then give it a try. This is one illustration of where TV is not very good at showing the detail. All the players who were close by and the referee saw it clearly and accepted it.

 

Yeas, agree with that. Someone has posted it on twitter from the rear angle and Jordy definitely caught Shaw as he was running and caused him to fall, not a dive at all and not a great deal he could do really. Kind of like a tap tackle in rugby. Correct decision.

 

Much respect to the fans caught up in the traffic on the way up - hope it didn't spoil the day too much (although the result and our lack of punch up front probably did more to spoil it!)

[Saints boy in Leeds]

Done ok to be honest but it was always men against boys.

 

We need a defensive mid though Hojberg deputised admirably but it restricts his other abilities when having to do so.

 

Signing an attacking midfielder won't solve our problems - it's the style of play and perhaps the understanding of it which means we only really create half chances. One player will not solve this and even if it does, what happens when that player is out?

 

Matt Targett was woefully out of position a few times tonight.

 

Quite easy to nullify Redmond... Show him into his left foot.

 

 

Body language didn't look great from some of the players too.

 

Just an observation.

 

I noticed a few of the players popping off at each other a few times, interesting.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lighthouse]

Nothing to do with the 2 games. Everything to do with selling all your top players and not replacing them, whilst other teams around us buy top quality.

 

But doomed is WAY too strong. The Championship is a top league and great fun.

 

It was great being in the Championship and not selling our best players all the time. Oh, apart from Crouch... And Phillips... And Walcott... And Niemi... And Jones... And Bale.... And Pele... And Surman... And Rasiak... And Baird