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Saints Won, Watford 1.....Post match meltdown

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great_saint

great_saint

Posted
Posted

Completely agree with those that have pointed out the redundancy of playing JWP and Davis together, as this has been a problem I've noticed during the past 2-3 seasons, as well. I would guess that the club thought (hoped?) that JWP would "win" the job from Davis at some point in the past couple seasons, but I've not seen anything that would lead to benching Davis in favor of JWP. But playing them together has never helped the club, no matter the formation. My take is that JWP is just a worse version of Davis, in that he is a worse tackler, less creative in open play, and a worse scorer (which is pretty tough, given that Davis is below average in that department as well).

 

I will say that I was happy with the 2nd half and think a 2-1 win would've been a fair result if Redmond hadn't been just offside for his second.

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Badger

Badger

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Main positives - Hojberg, and the fact took a point from a game that we spluttered in, especially the first half where we were poor.

 

Hojberg does look a quality player who wil make a difference.

Redmond - too soon to judge.

 

Up front we look pretty toothless though.

Midfield - until Hojberg came on we were far too lightweight and easily outmuscled too often, even Romeu. JWP & Davis surely our weakest combination ?

Defence - Yoshida maintains his a f^ck up every game routine with a suicide back pass.

Right back - this position annoys me, we now have three rb's , I wonder if any of them can adequately fill this role. Cedric doesn't do it for Saints no matter how good he might have been for Portugal,Martina is a stop gap nothing more, so it leaves Pied and his track record doesn't fill me with confidence.

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Cabrone

Cabrone

Posted
Posted

It's a shame we can't be given our toughest game on opening day as we have a really poor record on the first Saturday regardless of who we play.

 

We've won only 3 times on opening day in the last 27 seasons, 2013/14, 2011/12 (champ season) and 1999/2000.

 

Even in our league 1 days we only managed to draw and lose on opening day.

 

We must have one of the worst opening day records out there, I wonder why?

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rooney

rooney

Posted
Posted

Redmond got knocked off the ball easily on a number of occasions and he and others wanted that extra touch before shooting. In saying that he took his goal well. The stats indicated we should have scored more goals from the number of shots we had. Early days and not so downbeat as others on this board.

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ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted (edited)

Pretty mediocre match, but that seems to be the same on the 1st day of every season for us.

 

Have to hope that Man U lose focus in what is going to be a media whanque fest next week.

 

The set up looks like it might be more suited to an away game with space to break into rather than against a 10 man brick wall. Barely any movement and no wide options for the man on the ball to use.

 

Must do better!!

 

Good turn out @dubaisaints. Banging hang over this morning ... football is back :D

Edited by ericofarabia
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Andy Durman

Andy Durman

Posted
Posted

I'm probably feeling more positive than most as I only got the stream working after 30 mins.

 

Redmond has a fantastic work rate and did some fantastic defensive work and tracking. He was always wanting the ball and drove the team forward. He is lightweight and did lose the ball too many times. Great potential and he's at the right club to develop.

 

JWP didn't do it today. Southampton will be frustrated by his display. It wasn't as bad as a lot make out, but he can take some fault for the goal as he was caught ball watching. He did not take his opportunity to hold down a starting position and will be bitterly disappointed with himself.

 

Hojberg was giving a chance and my god he took it. This boy is class and should have started.

 

VVD is class.

 

A disappointing result, but a lot of positives.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
Cedric seemed to have taken on big Vic's former role of seeing how many times he can pass the ball to the other side

 

not too sure what people were expecting. he was not that good last season.

he was out of the side for periods for cuco martina ffs

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GarrettIvo

GarrettIvo

Posted
Posted
Pretty mediocre match, but that seems to be the same on the 1st day of every season for us.

 

Have to hope that Man U lose focus in what is going to be a media whanque fest next week.

 

The set up looks like it might be more suited to an away game with space to break into rather than against a 10 man brick wall. Barely any movement and no wide options for the man on the ball to use.

 

Must do better!!

 

Good turn out @dubaisaints. Banging hang over this morning ... football is back :D

 

The Watford Wall was in full effect. What was annoying was that we started ok, but they went forward once and scored and from there it was everyone behind the ball for them. Which they're entitled to do. But we didn't seem to have a lot of width or drive to get around them.

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sandwichsaint

sandwichsaint

Posted
Posted

Definite work in progress, not sure why some are saying it was a good or enjoyable game, a lot of it was pretty poor fare and pretty dull too. An interesting watch rather than an exciting one.

 

We seemed to have lots of bits n pieces players and very little cohesion first half (what have we been doing for the past 6 weeks?), the second half was better, particularly with the introduction of Hojbjerg.

 

When we can field these six: Forster (...) VVD, Fonte, Bertrand, PEH, (..............), Tadic, then we have the basis of a very good side. If we could add some genuine attacking quality (hopefully the hinted-at big signing, a actually materialises, and b is genuinely a cut above what we already have and is ready to go straight in to the side) then the future could be pretty good. The Long/Redmond attacking combo looked very lightweight, particularly without much midfield ooomph behind it.

 

Not sure we learnt much at all yesterday, Cedric still hopelessly inconsistent, Yoshi is a willing and athletic defender but will always give one big chance away, VVD total class, Targett is a work in progress (and better suited to wing back than LB in a back 4), Romeu is a solid competitior (who was hung out to dry yesterday in this formation and personnel), JWP doesn't contribute enough either as an attacker or a defender, SD is a solid continuity player but he is not a creative number 10, Tadic is quality on the ball but won't score too many goals (will create loads of assists though), Long isn't at his best constantly rotating position or playing out wide, Redmond is a young developing player and is in the right place to improve. Hojbjerg absolute class, Pied was pleasing (we haven't seen his defending yet but if he is fit I would probably play him on Friday night), Austin is a lumbering oaf, he needs to get in the box and have some service.

 

Overall, after what was supposed to have been a decent pre-season it was all a bit of an anti climax, Watford were honest but limited (I can't see them going down, they were hard-working, organised, played with good spirit and have got a goal in them, they will be very pleased with an away point at a top 6-8 side!). Saints have a lot to do to maintain last year's levels, but we knew that already. Top 6-8 not impossible if we bought in at least one attacking upgrade, 10th-13th more likely based on yesterday's showing.

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Professor

Professor

Posted
Posted

Encouraged by seeing Puel's observations as reported by The Echo. It seems he did make adjustments at half-time to relax the diamond, although maybe I was watching the ball too intently to notice but suggesting afterwards that the team needs to play with more width as and when opportunities arise suggests he is adaptable and doesn't want then to be too rigid with the formation.

After watching MotD I wouldn't be too critical of Romeu over the goal. He did see the run and tried to get there but the Watford player had a head start.

The foul on Shane Long was an example of where the laws of the game can't adequately punish game-changing cheating. In some sports, cheating means you can be banned from future competition for periods of years, whereas in football all you get is being out for 3 games and still getting paid. The free kick was a totally inadequate compensation for a clear goal scoring opportunity which would have changed the result of the game.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
Encouraged by seeing Puel's observations as reported by The Echo. It seems he did make adjustments at half-time to relax the diamond, although maybe I was watching the ball too intently to notice but suggesting afterwards that the team needs to play with more width as and when opportunities arise suggests he is adaptable and doesn't want then to be too rigid with the formation.

After watching MotD I wouldn't be too critical of Romeu over the goal. He did see the run and tried to get there but the Watford player had a head start.

The foul on Shane Long was an example of where the laws of the game can't adequately punish game-changing cheating. In some sports, cheating means you can be banned from future competition for periods of years, whereas in football all you get is being out for 3 games and still getting paid. The free kick was a totally inadequate compensation for a clear goal scoring opportunity which would have changed the result of the game.

 

are you suggesting that Watson should be banned for a couple of years?

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ART

ART

Posted
Posted

I was greatly heartened in our formation by the fact for most of the 2nd half Forster didn't have practically nothing to do. With the right players and a little tinkering I think eventually we will get the diamond right. It offers an alternative plan and shuts down the opposition attacks. Of course lighthtweights like JWP, have no place and we need to bring in several additions and get rid of the likes of Cedric, even Romeo.

I believe Puels knows what he is doing and will have us achieving more than we did under one trick Koeman. To compare him to Hodgson and say he is arrogant is way off the mark. He obviously knew how to install plenty of fighting spirit in the second half. We should easily have won had we succeeded with one or two of the near misses.

I really enjoyed the 2nd half which left me with plenty of optimism of things to come.

My concern is Eric Black and how much his translations and input may be behind Puel's message not always getting thru.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Encouraged by seeing Puel's observations as reported by The Echo. It seems he did make adjustments at half-time to relax the diamond, although maybe I was watching the ball too intently to notice but suggesting afterwards that the team needs to play with more width as and when opportunities arise suggests he is adaptable and doesn't want then to be too rigid with the formation.

After watching MotD I wouldn't be too critical of Romeu over the goal. He did see the run and tried to get there but the Watford player had a head start.

The foul on Shane Long was an example of where the laws of the game can't adequately punish game-changing cheating. In some sports, cheating means you can be banned from future competition for periods of years, whereas in football all you get is being out for 3 games and still getting paid. The free kick was a totally inadequate compensation for a clear goal scoring opportunity which would have changed the result of the game.

Long had still a way to run and a defender was also coming across.Whilst I agree that Long would have won the chase, I'm not sure he is that good at finishing when through
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charliemiller

charliemiller

Posted
Posted

Watching the match yesterday you can see the team is in a transition between styles/formation......for those concerned about the number of touches round the box etc remember who Puel served under adapted this style from.......Arsene Wenger, some of the complaints on this board exactly mirror moans Arsenal fans have had for years about the way Arsenal play including the lack of a target man. Patience peeps I am sure this will work out.

Big pluses for me yesterday were Redmond and Hoberg, Redmond has huge potential if he has solid coaching to improve his finishing, his workrate teamplay and awareness are actually on a par with Mane IMHO , Hoberg looked like the midfield link we have been missing very very good.

Its the think Sanchez/Berkamp type player we need to finish this off i reckon

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JRM

JRM

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I think the disappointment comes from the fact we finished last season so well with tremendous momentum and it feels like rather than carry that on we are starting again from scratch. Not surprising with new formation and of last year's 1st XI we were missing Bertrand, Fonte, Wanyama, Mane, Pelle. I think we lacked a true test against a Premier league style team in pre season, all the games I saw lacked a spark and we're played in 2nd gear.

 

Will be an interesting test for Claude at Old Trafford next week, could do with out first choice back four for that. Høijberg to start instead of Ward-Prowse I think.

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
are you suggesting that Watson should be banned for a couple of years?

 

I don't think he is, more like it appears to be either one of your characteristic strawman arguments or lack of understanding.

 

Back to the game, which was disappointing as I'd hoped to see a first game win for a change. I wonder if Puel had Hojbjerg on the bench so that his first experience would at least be with fresh legs and so that he could see the physicality of this league. Certainly JWP wasn't up to it yesterday, one of his more disappointing games, against a big Watford side. Some seconds before their goal I was shouting for someone to mark the 39 (ISTR) as he was unmarked on the outside edge of the box, nor was his subsequent run picked up, but I think that was the only chance they had - b*ms.

 

Redmond looked promising, and above all willing - finished well for his goal and didn't give up, just some of his decision making could have been better as to when to pass, but that's not a problem for a young player in a new side. As to Hojbjerg I'm hoping that after the game next Friday all the media attention will be on him, he really looks good at only 20.

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austsaint

austsaint

Posted
Posted
Tadic's work in the first half deserved a better finish from Long. Long was quiet yesterday apart from the one break aside though balls through to him and Redmond were pretty **** poor yesterday.

 

Long was quiet yesterday. I don't think the new formation suits him at all, and the loss of Pelle but particularly Mane, has worked against Long's effectiveness. I thought Redmond had a great second half and showed considerable pace, energy and skill to enliven a static forward set up in tandem with Tadic. The elephant-in-the-room with Saints has to be James Ward-Prowse. How much longer can this "project" continue. I know Puel has committed to an encouragement of Academy players etc but if he hasn't already realised he soon will just how limited this guy is. The Club is quick to offload the Juanmis' and co but continues to persist with this poor little overhyped poster boy - who is about to turn 22. And to think he has a new contract extension.

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Mr Biscuits

Mr Biscuits

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Posted

First half was awful. Cedric looked shocking and just couldn't do anything right.

Long didn't get any supply so I can't fault him for being quiet. Redmond put in a good display but he's too small and gets constantly muscled off the ball.

Hojburg should have been on sooner- really stiffened up the midfield and changed it for us. I thought Pied was positive when he came on, always looking to take them on and get the cross in.

We really needed Fonte in defence - YOshida was too rusty.

Tadic and Van Dijk were very good

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Graffito

Graffito

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Posted

Most of the players are struggling with the new formation (has the club ditched the strategy of playing 4-3-3 from first team down to Academy?). However, PEH can play it and I was encouraged by how Tadic played. I guess this system comes down to having quality on the ball, good mobility/work rate and puts a premium on decision making. Some of our players were found a bit wanting yesterday both physically and mentally. Playing it safe to retain possession (e.g JWP) was never going to win the game but taking a few risks by driving forward through the middle (PEH) might have won it, granted this was against 10 for some of the second half.

 

Don't know if anyone has commented on Long and Cedric arguing on the pitch. Cedric played a pass to feet which was intercepted. Long wanted it played over the top. It must have been frustrating for Long and Redmond to wait patiently through the slow, predictable build ups only to receive passes with their backs to goal. It's not their strength.

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UpweySaint

UpweySaint

Posted
Posted

Seen better, seen worse from us. Not a great watch.

 

Loved the ref telling Watford 'no more' on the time wasting then doing sod all about it for another half of football, like watching a cover teacher who has lost a class. They came for a draw and got it. Have to say a little disappointed by their travelling support. They were a friendly bunch but deathly quiet for 95% of the game even when they were ahead.

 

Redmond looked bright, Tadic showed his class, VVD is just imperious. Targett was often in a lot of space but looked reluctant to drive beyond Watford - I wonder if this is tactical or if Bertrand will improve that area when back. Romeu was hit and miss but hopefully he can grow into the position, he had a lot to do yesterday though so hard to give him too much stick. The diamond will take a fair bit of work, not convinced but it's early days and we are still expecting new additions ... may need to wait till the season is properly under way before making any firm judgements.

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UpweySaint

UpweySaint

Posted
Posted
Most of the players are struggling with the new formation (has the club ditched the strategy of playing 4-3-3 from first team down to Academy?). However, PEH can play it and I was encouraged by how Tadic played. I guess this system comes down to having quality on the ball, good mobility/work rate and puts a premium on decision making. Some of our players were found a bit wanting yesterday both physically and mentally. Playing it safe to retain possession (e.g JWP) was never going to win the game but taking a few risks by driving forward through the middle (PEH) might have won it, granted this was against 10 for some of the second half.

 

Don't know if anyone has commented on Long and Cedric arguing on the pitch. Cedric played a pass to feet which was intercepted. Long wanted it played over the top. It must have been frustrating for Long and Redmond to wait patiently through the slow, predictable build ups only to receive passes with their backs to goal. It's not their strength.

 

Good to see sometimes, nice to see a bit of passion and strikers demanding the right service. He may have sulked a lot but Graz certainly let his team mates know what he expected of them!

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

I agree with the majority of the comments on the match. I don't know why Hojbjerg didn't start. The times that I had seen him play pre-season impressed me a lot and I believe that he will be the next one to be attracting the mega buck offers from the glory teams in the future. He reminds me a lot of Schneiderlin in his pomp for us. We were a cut above when he came on. Cedric was poor and how come he was OK to play following his exertions at the European Cup and Fonte wasn't? Or maybe his performance showed that he wasn't ready to play. Or perhaps having Fonte alongside makes him a better player. Targett did quite well in Bertrand's absence, but Bertrand would probably have given us some extra threat higher up the pitch.

 

Interesting to ponder what the players who left could have given us over those that replaced them. Wanyama would probably have given us more that Romeu on yesterday's performance, but Hojbjerg would undoubtedly have given us a boost playing alongside him like Schneiderlin did. Mane could have been the sort of tricky fast player that could have torn Watford apart, and Redmond doesn't measure up as a replacement yet, although that situation could change when the team know each others' strengths and mind sets. Pelle could well have been effective as the big target man and holder up of the ball that we lacked until Austin came on. But it is too early to read too much into whether we will turn out to be as effective as we were last season. For me we still need a fast, mobile striker.

 

As for Watford, they were similar to a cynical Stoke type of team managed by Pulis. They came here looking for a point and when they went ahead, naturally they parked the bus. They did their best to cripple our speedy players with a succession of niggly fouls. They had the time-wasting down to a fine art. When we had drawn level and looked to be developing a head of steam, they had players fall to the ground feigning injury to stop our momentum. Apart from Gomez taking an age over his goal kicks and earning a yellow for his troubles, players substituted walked more slowly from the pitch than a centenarian with a Zimmer frame strolling along Eastbourne promenade.

 

It would be typical of Saints to be unable to break down these cynical, park the bus crap teams and then to turn over the glory teams who come to play football and expect to beat us. We live in hope.

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted

I'm fairly happy that some of the players have taken this result like a defeat, hopefully helps us to improve and move on.

 

Jeremy Pied said 'not a good result today at home', and rightly so if I am honest. BUT it's about how we bounce back and on another day Long may have scored a header, not had an air shot or we may have scored that first chance in the first few minutes.

 

As for Watford, think away from home they will be physical tw*ts, but I don't think they have enough firepower in them to really get many points, I reckon a 15/16th place for them.

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
Watching MoTD and plenty of sides looked off the pace in their opening games not just us.

 

Shearer more impressed with Redmond than most of our fans.

 

Shearer obviously didn't have to watch him for a full 90 minutes.

 

First half was poor ,although he was much improved in the second half, and give him credit for tracking back a few times.

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scotty

scotty

Posted
Posted
agree actually.

on reflection, Long should have done better really

 

Long would quite possibly have won us the game if he hadn't been cynically hauled down by the last defender.

 

I'm also pleased by the automatic yellows for dissent, let's hope the refs stick with that.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
Long was quiet yesterday. I don't think the new formation suits him at all, and the loss of Pelle but particularly Mane, has worked against Long's effectiveness. I thought Redmond had a great second half and showed considerable pace, energy and skill to enliven a static forward set up in tandem with Tadic. The elephant-in-the-room with Saints has to be James Ward-Prowse. How much longer can this "project" continue. I know Puel has committed to an encouragement of Academy players etc but if he hasn't already realised he soon will just how limited this guy is. The Club is quick to offload the Juanmis' and co but continues to persist with this poor little overhyped poster boy - who is about to turn 22. And to think he has a new contract extension.

 

It should. Long and Redmond could have a field day with the right through balls and quick ones over the top. They got a lot of balls in poor positions yesterday I mean balls to Redmond's head or with his back to goal are pointless he isn't a CF. JWP was the weak link but the new manger is still getting used to the team and there is bound to be a few team selections that don't work early doors. I'll be worried if JWP becomes a regular starter but I think Hjojberg will get the nod from now on and we looked much more dangerous with him in midfield.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
It should. Long and Redmond could have a field day with the right through balls and quick ones over the top. They got a lot of balls in poor positions yesterday I mean balls to Redmond's head or with his back to goal are pointless he isn't a CF. JWP was the weak link but the new manger is still getting used to the team and there is bound to be a few team selections that don't work early doors. I'll be worried if JWP becomes a regular starter but I think Hjojberg will get the nod from now on and we looked much more dangerous with him in midfield.

 

what happens when teams (bit like yesterday) close off the space behind?

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