OldNick Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 Man City fans did show plenty of undying love when they were in League 1 so I really don't understand what point you are making, yet again. You're suggesting we should protest or march through the streets because we only finished sixth? You do exaggerate, march through the streets lol. Posting the happiness of being also rans sends the wrong message. It seems we both have poarised opinions on this and so you live the dream of being 6th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 You do exaggerate, march through the streets lol. Posting the happiness of being also rans sends the wrong message. It seems we both have poarised opinions on this and so you live the dream of being 6th Okay, let's imagine that every single contributor on this forum all agree that they aren't brainwashed and finishing sixth is actually not a good thing, we all are not relaxed about it and we all withdraw our undying love. Just remind me what then happens after that? How does this turn us into Manchester City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 Yes you carry on picking and choosing to back up your lack of ambition.If you wish to focus on clubs much smaller than us, I will choose clubs bigger than us and to point at Chelsea and Man City who also were in the lower leagues, I doubt their fans relaxed or showed their undying love as they were finishing 6th or worse. There is no magic bullet but lets have a bit more ambition than 6th. Stop hiding behind the word 'ambition' and state exactly what you want the club to do and how they can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 Okay, let's imagine that every single contributor on this forum all agree that they aren't brainwashed and finishing sixth is actually not a good thing, we all are not relaxed about it and we all withdraw our undying love. Just remind me what then happens after that? How does this turn us into Manchester City? It depends on the owners ambition or plans. If they just wish for more of the same nothing will happen, you will be able to brag how you saw us finish 6/7/8 or even 15th. Enjoy, hopefully your way is right and we sustain a mid to high table finish forever more. Yep that will do us proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 Stop hiding behind the word 'ambition' and state exactly what you want the club to do and how they can do it. When the window closes we will see what ambition the owners have. It is not my business to make the plans for their commercial enterprise, Iam just a loyal customer that feels a tad unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 When the window closes we will see what ambition the owners have. It is not my business to make the plans for their commercial enterprise, I am just a loyal customer that feels a tad unhappy. you are not alone brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 (edited) Stop hiding behind the word 'ambition' and state exactly what you want the club to do and how they can do it. You're forgetting that Everton at the only club with ambition. Edited 18 August, 2016 by Whitey Grandad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 It depends on the owners ambition or plans. If they just wish for more of the same nothing will happen, you will be able to brag how you saw us finish 6/7/8 or even 15th. Enjoy, hopefully your way is right and we sustain a mid to high table finish forever more. Yep that will do us proud. What do you want. Seriously, what do you want? Do you want us to win the league, because I don't think that's going to happen. Win a domestic cup? Much of that is down to chance if you don't have a big squad. Get into a European competition? Apart from that there's not a lot else to go for. We are never going to sustainably be rubbing shoulders with the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 When the window closes we will see what ambition the owners have. It is not my business to make the plans for their commercial enterprise, Iam just a loyal customer that feels a tad unhappy. So you are unhappy, but you cant work what you want the club to do to change it. Is that because you can't work out why you are unhappy, despite our upcoming first European group campaign and our third top eight finish you've got a sad feeling but just cant work it out. Or is it that you know why you are unhappy but can't figure what would make it better or that you know why you are unhappy and you know what would make it better but you can't work out how to do it. Or is it that you want the club to spend lots of money on big transfer fees and big wages, is that what you mean by ambition. You guys use ambition as a euphemism and even when invited to state want you really mean you still hide behind it. Just come out and say what you really want, do you want Kat to bank roll the club and pay really big transfer fees and big wages. Do you want someone else to spend their own money to finance your dreams. When the evidence suggest that wages not transfer fees is connected to successs and we pay out about 75% of our income on wages, a level which is at the top end of sustainable, we are paying the best wages we can and we can not compete with the big clubs. The club is trying to fulfil it's 'ambition' to be a successful club by a different smarter route, it will take longer and it probably will never break us into the top club bracket but it will give us a club that can continually compete in the top ten of England. If you think that under the current regime that we will be the next Chelsea, Man City, Portsmouth, Leeds, Blackburn, Derby then you are a wonderful dreamer or 11. If you think the club is just about making money for Les and Kat then you are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 For us to be sustainable we need to clearing £30m difference between sales and purchases?? Is that what people are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 (edited) It depends on the owners ambition or plans. If they just wish for more of the same nothing will happen, you will be able to brag how you saw us finish 6/7/8 or even 15th. Enjoy, hopefully your way is right and we sustain a mid to high table finish forever more. Yep that will do us proud. So what was the point of mentioning Man City's supporters again? You seemed to drawing some comparison which I still don't quite get, but something about how they must have all moaned a lot about how terrible their club was on message boards and that they weren't happy and then that ultimately caused them to win the Premier League. Chelsea fans too, all their fans moaned and then bingo, win the league. It might be just me but it feels like total guff to me but you believe it if you like. Being that you've already said you don't expect us to win the league, and the higher you finish in the league the likelier you are to win a cup, and the more cups you qualify for, I really really have no idea what you actually want the club to achieve. What do you want the club to actually achieve? Achieve. Not bol locks about spending money. Actually achieve in competition. To help you out, this is what I want: solid in the league, 10th or better, and then try and win every single cup we enter with real focus on the league cup if we're not in Europe. Try and be in Europa three seasons out of five and try and get into the post-Christmas end of that tournament every time we're in it. I'd take 10th and a cup over sixth and no cup all day long. Sometimes we will have a stinker of a season so expect we will fall short from time to time. That's what I want. What on earth do you want? Edited 18 August, 2016 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 That is far too sensible and logical CB - wasted on here. This forum is full of the 'I want it now and it's not fair the club isn't spending a vast fortune' type these days. Thank god the board aren't as frivolous with the Liebherrs money as so many on here want them to be. 3 outstanding seasons in the Prem, group stages of Europa for the first time and 7 first team players tied down to extended contracts and yet still people aren't happy. Of course we will have 'blip' one season - and it may well be this season with the extra games. Of course we need another couple of players and I'm sure the club is working on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 18 August, 2016 Share Posted 18 August, 2016 That is far too sensible and logical CB - wasted on here. This forum is full of the 'I want it now and it's not fair the club isn't spending a vast fortune' type these days. Thank god the board aren't as frivolous with the Liebherrs money as so many on here want them to be. 3 outstanding seasons in the Prem, group stages of Europa for the first time and 7 first team players tied down to extended contracts and yet still people aren't happy. Of course we will have 'blip' one season - and it may well be this season with the extra games. Of course we need another couple of players and I'm sure the club is working on this. Perhaps instead of the extremes people keep insisting on putting other people's mouths..all some people want is the club to address the ,obvious to all, deficiencies in the squad? Yes we have two weeks to do it but wouldn't it be nice, for once, to start the season with a full squad and let others do the scratching around for deals? For me mid table is fine..watching my team play some good football, having a chance in all games (so not getting hammered each week) is enough for me..people who keep quoting "win a cup" obviously haven't supported us long..we have only won two in 130 odd seasons so if that's a criteria of success then most will probably be very disappointed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 I have been raving about Hojbjerg (well since I learnt to spell his name right) all pre-season was so disappointed for him not to start so all is not bad at the moment. Think he is going to be a real favourite this season - Redmond just needs the publicity taken away and let him progress in the shadow - he can do it I like him a lot he has pace and works hard. Get in that other midfield/forward and he will come good. Think this was a bit of PC /PR on Puel's part. Of course Redmond started, but we saw all " the regulars " paraded for the fans before he introduced Hojbjerg and Pied as possible alternatives. Not much chance to judge Pied (did nothing wrong) but he was a step-up from Yoshida (who should never play at RB - he's a better CB....IMO) Hojbjerg was a breath of fresh air, and I can see him getting a lot of game-time, when we can sort out the best midfield set-up for each game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 I think that Katarina must be satisfied with the manner that the club is handing finances. Once we have the Osvaldo / Gaston debts off the books it may look even better. Interesting...that for a club that has finished 8th, 7th and 6th in successive seasons without resorting to the level of expenditure that the Manchester / Liverpool clubs have must show some credit, and eventually we may produce another Walcott, Bale or Shaw which, in today's "mad market" will save the club considerably more in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Over the last 5 seasons we are the 7th highest spending club in England. The position in the league reflects that investment in the squad. It isn't some amazing thing we have done it's that we spent that much on our squad increasing quality and depth. The club is definitely well run and the academy has given us the platform to have the money to spend via sales of Shaw, Ox etc... But ultimately to become one of the best of the rest we did it through spending money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Over the last 5 seasons we are the 7th highest spending club in England. Is that net or gross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Over the last 5 seasons we are the 7th highest spending club in England. The position in the league reflects that investment in the squad. It isn't some amazing thing we have done it's that we spent that much on our squad increasing quality and depth. The club is definitely well run and the academy has given us the platform to have the money to spend via sales of Shaw, Ox etc... But ultimately to become one of the best of the rest we did it through spending money! Please supply link / reference to stated fact. It is obvious to most sane human beings that you spend money to make things happen and in football you have to spend it on players more that anything else in the current era. What's important is how that money is generated. This is where Saints separate themselves from the pack. They are not relying on handouts from the owner they are creating a business that is self-sustaining and this means selling players and buying others. What again seperate is from the pack is what we do with the player between joining and leaving. This development of people is the ethos of the club and that is the reason we have achieved. More importantly it is what will prevent us from going into administration again versus those clubs who ONLY spend money and look from season to season. I doubt we are not far away from a premier league club going under - brave statement I know but some clubs spend like there's no tomorrow. We don't, because we want to be here tomorrow, and the next day, and the next, and the next....and currently we are the best of the rest as you put it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Is that net or gross? Nett spend we were 17th or 18th and that was before our transfer activities this summer (circa £40m up) Only Swansea, Burnley and Spurs believe it or not had a lower Nett spent last 5 seasons coming into this window. Spurs net spend this summer is -22m and Swansea -5m so right now we would probably be 19th or 20th in the Nett spend table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Did you mean another Premier League club going under? Or do you mean 27 miles when you say "not far away?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Over the last 5 seasons we are the 7th highest spending club in England. The position in the league reflects that investment in the squad. It isn't some amazing thing we have done it's that we spent that much on our squad increasing quality and depth. The club is definitely well run and the academy has given us the platform to have the money to spend via sales of Shaw, Ox etc... But ultimately to become one of the best of the rest we did it through spending money! Happy days. It does beg the question why so many are complaining about the clubs lack of ambition. Or how for the last three summers we've been told the squad is weaker than previous seasons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Is that net or gross? Net surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Net surely? Err, no. According to the following we are 17th. Maybe Saint-Fred missed a 1 out? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons *caveat - date of data not specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 (edited) HuPlease supply link / reference to stated fact. It is obvious to most sane human beings that you spend money to make things happen and in football you have to spend it on players more that anything else in the current era. What's important is how that money is generated. This is where Saints separate themselves from the pack. They are not relying on handouts from the owner they are creating a business that is self-sustaining and this means selling players and buying others. What again seperate is from the pack is what we do with the player between joining and leaving. This development of people is the ethos of the club and that is the reason we have achieved. More importantly it is what will prevent us from going into administration again versus those clubs who ONLY spend money and look from season to season. I doubt we are not far away from a premier league club going under - brave statement I know but some clubs spend like there's no tomorrow. We don't, because we want to be here tomorrow, and the next day, and the next, and the next....and currently we are the best of the rest as you put it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons And this one from two years ago has us as 8th even then( over 6 years in which we weren't in the league the whole time) http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/09/10/top-10-premier-league-spenders-over-the-last-six-years-with-chelsea-and-manchester-united-chasing-top-spot/3/ Edited 19 August, 2016 by Saint-Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Happy days. It does beg the question why so many are complaining about the clubs lack of ambition. Or how for the last three summers we've been told the squad is weaker than previous seasons.... There is no way that the squad is weaker than 3 yeas ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Err, no. According to the following we are 17th. Maybe Saint-Fred missed a 1 out? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons *caveat - date of data not specified. I am not talking net spend -that is irrelevant..the depth of the squad is determined by the money invested into it..it is irrelevant if that money comes from sales or somewhere else.. If the club can make a better squad whilst having to make very little net spend then it is truly very well run! Actually your table does show that only six clubs have spent more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 I am not talking net spend -that is irrelevant..the depth of the squad is determined by the money invested into it..it is irrelevant if that money comes from sales or somewhere else.. If the club can make a better squad whilst having to make very little net spend then it is truly very well run! Actually your table does show that only six clubs have spent more! Net spend is irrelevant? So, by your reckoning we could sell all 11 players for let's say £10M each but buy one player for £25M and therefore we have, by your unique accounting metric, invested £25M into the team (of one) and increased the depth of it? Wrong said Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 So you are unhappy, but you cant work what you want the club to do to change it. Is that because you can't work out why you are unhappy, despite our upcoming first European group campaign and our third top eight finish you've got a sad feeling but just cant work it out. Or is it that you know why you are unhappy but can't figure what would make it better or that you know why you are unhappy and you know what would make it better but you can't work out how to do it. Or is it that you want the club to spend lots of money on big transfer fees and big wages, is that what you mean by ambition. You guys use ambition as a euphemism and even when invited to state want you really mean you still hide behind it. Just come out and say what you really want, do you want Kat to bank roll the club and pay really big transfer fees and big wages. Do you want someone else to spend their own money to finance your dreams. When the evidence suggest that wages not transfer fees is connected to successs and we pay out about 75% of our income on wages, a level which is at the top end of sustainable, we are paying the best wages we can and we can not compete with the big clubs. The club is trying to fulfil it's 'ambition' to be a successful club by a different smarter route, it will take longer and it probably will never break us into the top club bracket but it will give us a club that can continually compete in the top ten of England. If you think that under the current regime that we will be the next Chelsea, Man City, Portsmouth, Leeds, Blackburn, Derby then you are a wonderful dreamer or 11. If you think the club is just about making money for Les and Kat then you are stupid.the group campaign thingy was never around when we were a force in the 80's. You dont think SFC is not for making money for the owners, lol. Yep that's it, it is all about living for a saturday. Yep 40 years of following Saints from Switzerland home and away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Net spend is irrelevant? So, by your reckoning we could sell all 11 players for let's say £10M each but buy one player for £25M and therefore we have, by your unique accounting metric, invested £25M into the team (of one) and increased the depth of it? Wrong said Fred. Er... Haven't you just demonstrated that net spend is not relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Er... Haven't you just demonstrated that net spend is not relevant? You think making a trading loss of £85M as in my example is not relevant? Ok then. Saint-Fred seemed to be trying to demonstrate that we should look at player purchases as being the metric to reflect the Club's investment and that this gave us greater depth of squad. But of course you can't disregard how those purchases were funded or the net effect on the squad depth if you ignore sales both in number of players and value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 You think making a trading loss of £85M as in my example is not relevant? Ok then. Saint-Fred seemed to be trying to demonstrate that we should look at player purchases as being the metric to reflect the Club's investment and that this gave us greater depth of squad. But of course you can't disregard how those purchases were funded or the net effect on the squad depth if you ignore sales both in number of players and value. LOL unbelievable Jeff. I wouldn't waste your time mate..... "Net spend is irrelevant" that's a new level of stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 You think making a trading loss of £85M as in my example is not relevant? Ok then. Saint-Fred seemed to be trying to demonstrate that we should look at player purchases as being the metric to reflect the Club's investment and that this gave us greater depth of squad. But of course you can't disregard how those purchases were funded or the net effect on the squad depth if you ignore sales both in number of players and value. You could sell £110m of players and buy one for £120m. That would be a net spend of £10 by the simplistic accounting method yet would still leave only one player in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Net spend is irrelevant? So, by your reckoning we could sell all 11 players for let's say £10M each but buy one player for £25M and therefore we have, by your unique accounting metric, invested £25M into the team (of one) and increased the depth of it? Wrong said Fred. lol..nice one...of course it is relevant if you can't field a team! Only an idiot would use the most extreme example to prove their point. It's great how you use one sentence and grip on to that.. What I actual said was if the club can build a better squad with little net spend that is good..obviously with no net spend and the squad being worse is not good... However to use your extreme if we sell one player for 500 million then only spend 300 million on a team of Messi Ronaldo etc etc we will have a minus net spend of 200 million but a better squad so yes net spend is irrelevant. The relevance is how good the squad is at that time.whether that's through purchasing players, them coming through the academy or cheap buys who have developed. Net spend does not relate to league position as the table shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 lol..nice one...of course it is relevant . I'm glad we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 Over the last 5 seasons we are the 7th highest spending club in England. The position in the league reflects that investment in the squad. It isn't some amazing thing we have done it's that we spent that much on our squad increasing quality and depth. The club is definitely well run and the academy has given us the platform to have the money to spend via sales of Shaw, Ox etc... But ultimately to become one of the best of the rest we did it through spending money! So Leicester spent the most of all the clubs last season then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 I'm glad we agree. All is good in the world! Have a nice one :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 (edited) So Leicester spent the most of all the clubs last season then? Errr...who mentioned them? Sorry I see because I am saying our recent league position reflects the investment in the squad..you are saying that I am saying that spending the most wins trophies? If that was true let's forget the football and hand out the trophies at the end of the transfer window..champions are those who spent the most etc etc... You must see that was not what I said or implied. Edited 19 August, 2016 by Saint-Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 August, 2016 Share Posted 19 August, 2016 So Leicester spent the most of all the clubs last season then? Fair point, but that was exceptional. In general league results are related to spending but that includes wages as much as contract purchases and whether we would want to or are able to go down the route of excessive spending is debatable. FFP comes into play somewhere in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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