Rayo Vallecano & Walsall - loan partnerships

[Matthew Le God]

Looks like we may have a loan partnership deal with Rayo Vallecano now, based on Les Reed's comments about the Gazzaniga deal...

 

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/20160729-paulo-gazzaniga-southampton-rayo-vallecano-loan-3213584.aspx

 

Les Reed said early this year they were looking for loan partnerships in the Championship, League One and abroad, looks like they've signed up Walsall and Rayo Vallecano so far.

 

When jason McCarthy joined Walsall their manager said...

 

"Their keen to build a relationship with the club this season and going forward".

 

http://www.saddlers.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/saddlers-snap-up-a-saint-3159510.aspx

 

...................

 

The quality bar to reach our first team is very high, as teenagers from our academy are competing with a squad of senior internationals. If the players have outgrown youth football, it makes sense to have loan partnerships with trusted clubs home and abroad to get them to the level needed for our first team towards the top of the Premier League. A player would have to be exceptional as a teenager to challenge our first team now, it may take longer for them to break through and into their early 20's now. In the meantime some loans would be useful compared to stagnating in the development squad if they are too good for that level but not yet good enough for the 1st team.

[SuperSAINT]

What's Rayo's record like of developing players?

[EBS1980]

Maybe it was the Rayo kit that did it!

[St Chalet]

Les in loan u-turn shocker....

 

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[Turkish]

Les in loan u-turn shocker....

 

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The mark of a greater leader and a great human being. Able to adapt to the situation, make vital decisions at the right time and humble enough to change previous convictions if it'll be in the interests of the club or individual.

 

Les Reeds on fire

You're director of football is terrified

[FriendlySaint]

Rayo Vallecano are a great side to watch and my favourite team other than Saints, so this interests me. They seemingly wish to play beautiful possession football with the ball and high press without the ball from the first minute to the last. When I've seen them they still expect to dominate the ball even when reduced to ten or even nine men. They are kamikaze to say the least, but they are a great and fun team to watch whether they win , draw or lose.

 

Despite going down they had the sixth most goals in la liga and the fifth most possession. Says a lot about their philosophy. They just lack two decent centre backs with pace and a bit of pace throughout the side,, otherwise they would have finished top half. It was a real shame to see them go down.

[FriendlySaint]

I will add that they refuse to do anything but play like this even despite an obvious lack of quality in the side. Fair play to them. Although this philosophy could potentially change with a new manager. I do think that Paco Jemez would have been a good and really interesting, but risky, option for Saints instead of Puel. I do think Puel was a good choice though

[david in sweden]

Looks like we may have a loan partnership deal with Rayo Vallecano now, based on Les Reed's comments about the Gazzaniga

 

...................

 

The quality bar to reach our first team is very high, as teenagers from our academy are competing with a squad of senior internationals. If the players have outgrown youth football, it makes sense to have loan partnerships with trusted clubs home and abroad to get them to the level needed for our first team towards the top of the Premier League. A player would have to be exceptional as a teenager to challenge our first team now, it may take longer for them to break through and into their early 20's now. In the meantime some loans would be useful compared to stagnating in the development squad if they are too good for that level but not yet good enough for the 1st team.

 

absolutely right. Some " habitual "critics on this site are referring back to a statement from several years ago, regarding the club's (then) policy on loan-outs.

That was at a time when we were still at Championship /or / just-newly-promoted status, and some of our younger talents were looking highly promising.

A few people on this site had (previously) gone on record, saying we wouldn't even back to the Prem.....or just become a traditional relegation-threatened club

 

Times have changed, and so should our ambition. Those players who are still with the club at age 22....will need much more experience if they are to play in the Prem.

Other " big clubs " had a loan-out policy long ago. Arsenal and Man. City for many years, and it brought good returns - either in Prem. careers, or good transfer deals. So too didMan. United, although with hindsight they must have wished they had just " loaned out " Pogba, instead of releasing him when they did !

 

Chelsea " loaned out "...35 players last season, and historically Saints have had the benefit of their "casts offs", in the persons of Cork, Romeu and Bertrand.

Pochettino arrived at Spurs and " blooded " Harry Kane and Ryan Mason - at a point in time when both players had several significant loan seasons away from WHL)

Mason ( I believe ) had around 6 loan clubs before making it to the Spurs first team and eventually being capped by England.

 

Yes Saints want to continue developing our young players, but they must also get game-time with other clubs in order to increase their experience.

Last season we started many games with 2 or 3 internationals on the bench, and the days when " a new Walcott or Bale " could walk into the first team are long gone.

Any young player who even gets into the first team squad in a top 6 Prem. club nowadays will have to be "pretty d*** good".

 

It isn't difficult to admire Gazzaniga's ambition, but he still some way to go before becoming a safe Prem. custodian. A season loan out is (hopefully) a good career boost.

 

If his new club succeeds, and he can DAJF them, he may come back to SMS as " another Courtois" ..and not a Tommy Forecast!.

[Convict Colony]

Seems like Gazza will be the starting keeper as their previous one left for Elche, good move.

[ADutchSaint]

Will see I guess but in all the years that I've been following football, I've never heard of a successful long term partnership between clubs.

 

I personally don't really believe in partnerships between clubs. There's really no reason to have any in the first place.

[Sour Mash]

Will see I guess but in all the years that I've been following football, I've never heard of a successful long term partnership between clubs.

 

I personally don't really believe in partnerships between clubs. There's really no reason to have any in the first place.

 

I don't agree with them, but Watford's set up has worked well for them?

[VectisSaint]

absolutely right. Some " habitual "critics on this site are referring back to a statement from several years ago, regarding the club's (then) policy on loan-outs.

That was at a time when we were still at Championship /or / just-newly-promoted status, and some of our younger talents were looking highly promising.

A few people on this site had (previously) gone on record, saying we wouldn't even back to the Prem.....or just become a traditional relegation-threatened club

David, revisionist theory at its best. Les was interviewed during Pochettino's reign and stated quite clearly that his view and the club philosophy was that young players would develop better by being in and around the first team and being coached by the Southampton coaching staff. Soon afterwards Jack Stephens was loaned to Swindon. The "philosophy" was then changed to giving players loan experience at nearby clubs where Saints could keep a close eye on them. Then Poch left and Les's "philosphy" changed again with several players going out on loan, although two (Stephens and Turnbull) were at Swindon, who seemed to have become almost a partnership club. Then last season players went out on loan all over the place, the "philosophy" had changed again, though Turnbull went to Swindon again. The truth is Les (and the Club) do not have a "philosophy" and do not know what is best for young players development. They change with the wind and state that their philosophy matches what they have actually done.

 

Personally I believe it is better to loan players out, but not necessarily to Champ or L1/L2 teams, Chelsea's idea for a lot of their players going and playing in the top division in Holland (or other "second level" leagues is the right way to go for both their football development and their personal and educational development. I suspect that we won't see Gazza back again, it looks increasingly like the club "philosophy" for goalkeepers now is to bring in/develop English keepers, who have worked or are working with Dave Watson, the England goalkeeping coach. Besides bringing in McCarthy would be surprised if we don't also bring in another younger English keeper who already has some linkups with Watson, in order to bring our compliment of keepers back u to 4.

[ADutchSaint]

I don't agree with them, but Watford's set up has worked well for them?

 

You mean the set up where one family owned Udinese, Granada and Watford at the same time? Loaning and selling players between the clubs you own.... I guess you can call that a partnership of some kind

[stevegrant]

David, revisionist theory at its best. Les was interviewed during Pochettino's reign and stated quite clearly that his view and the club philosophy was that young players would develop better by being in and around the first team and being coached by the Southampton coaching staff. Soon afterwards Jack Stephens was loaned to Swindon. The "philosophy" was then changed to giving players loan experience at nearby clubs where Saints could keep a close eye on them. Then Poch left and Les's "philosphy" changed again with several players going out on loan, although two (Stephens and Turnbull) were at Swindon, who seemed to have become almost a partnership club. Then last season players went out on loan all over the place, the "philosophy" had changed again, though Turnbull went to Swindon again. The truth is Les (and the Club) do not have a "philosophy" and do not know what is best for young players development. They change with the wind and state that their philosophy matches what they have actually done.

Alternatively, at the time of Les's first comment about wanting to keep players in-house, the level required of an academy graduate to get in and around the first team was low enough for that stance to be justified, hence players like Reeves, Shaw, Chambers, Isgrove getting fairly regular opportunities back then.

 

Then, as the quality of the first team squad improves, the bar is raised so it's much harder for young players to break through, so we need to have an alternative for them, so loans within easy reach are a decent compromise.

 

Now we're in a situation where we are currently the sixth-best team in the country, so the bar has been raised again. Local loan options aren't viable for the standard we want our young/fringe players to be playing at (Bournemouth are at too high a level now, Pompey far too low and that partnership would never work), so we now need to look further afield.

 

It's called being pragmatic and doing what's best, not just sticking to a comment made four years ago because a few people on an internet forum might pick you up on a change of stance.