Patronising Press/Media on Saints

[Fitzhugh Fella]

There's a cracker in today's Guardian talking about how its time Fraser Forster should now get a chance under Big Sam.

While I agree with the sentiments the journo then goes on to say

 

"Forster has been linked with a move to bigger clubs but staying on the South Coast should not preclude him from establishing himself in goal with England". Well what do you know?

 

Remind me again who was the only English premier club to have two players win the Euros and in the case of Schneiderlin moving to United (a so-called bigger club) probably prevented him from establishing a place for his country.

[ericofarabia]

There's a cracker in today's Guardian talking about how its time Fraser Forster should now get a chance under Big Sam.

While I agree with the sentiments the journo then goes on to say

 

"Forster has been linked with a move to bigger clubs but staying on the South Coast should not preclude him from establishing himself in goal with England". Well what do you know?

 

Remind me again who was the only English premier club to have two players win the Euros and in the case of Schneiderlin moving to United (a so-called bigger club) probably prevented him from establishing a place for his country.

 

I think Fat Sam would pick the 6' 7'' Forster to play alongside The Pony Tailed / Man Bunned Ponce Carroll up front.

[JRM]

Not 100% sure of the accuracy of this, but was once told that the record England caps holder Peter Shilton made more of his England appearances as a Saints player than he did at any other club? if that's true there is a perfect legacy for Forster to follow, pretty sure Flowers was also capped for England whilst playing for Saints.

 

the concept in mainstream media that England appearances are the domain of big club players in the modern era is so ingrained they just cannot get their heads round a Saints player being first choice.

[CB Saint]

Get more practice in a sh1tter team's goal

[Wade Garrett]

Hopefully, one of the reasons Sam has been appointed, is because he won't pick players just because they're at a big club.

 

This has been an England problem for years.

[pangy]

Hopefully, one of the reasons Sam has been appointed, is because he won't pick players just because they're at a big club.

 

This has been an England problem for years.

 

I would love this to be the case but the FA will pressure him to fit Rooney in the team somehow and play Jack Wheelchair even if he has played 13 mins all season.

 

Players like Drinkwater & Noble should of gone to the Euros as they were in form all season,but nope,we have to go with the "biggest" names.

English football needs a total overhaul from grass roots level up, we should look at the way the German FA changed football in Germany after Euro 2000 and follow that model, until something drastic is done we will continue to embarrass ourselves on the world stage at every major competition (providing we qualify)

[buctootim]

Get more practice in a sh1tter team's goal

 

sh1t

sh1ttier

sh1ttiest

 

The grammar in this place has gone down hill

[Window Cleaner]

sh1t

sh1ttier

sh1ttiest

 

The grammar in this place has gone down hill

 

 

It never has been all that great.

[angelman]

Hopefully, one of the reasons Sam has been appointed, is because he won't pick players just because they're at a big club.

 

This has been an England problem for years.

 

I thought after South Africa we might have learned a lesson, but same old, same old. There have been so many false dawns, that in all honesty, while I hope BFS is going to be different, I fully expect the same old carp to be served up.

[Wes Tender]

It never has been all that great.

 

Split infinitive, "It has never been that great."

[CB Fry]

There's a cracker in today's Guardian talking about how its time Fraser Forster should now get a chance under Big Sam.

While I agree with the sentiments the journo then goes on to say

 

"Forster has been linked with a move to bigger clubs but staying on the South Coast should not preclude him from establishing himself in goal with England". Well what do you know?

 

Remind me again who was the only English premier club to have two players win the Euros and in the case of Schneiderlin moving to United (a so-called bigger club) probably prevented him from establishing a place for his country.

 

How the hell that is supposed to be patronising to us is beyond me.

 

This chip on shoulder persecution complex makes you look far more small time that anything that journalist has written.

 

Infamy, infamy.

[suewhistle]

How the hell that is supposed to be patronising to us is beyond me.

 

A lot is.

[Charlie Wayman]

They think Jeremy Corbin is a good leader and will make a good Prime Minister....

[CB Saint]

sh1t

sh1ttier

sh1ttiest

 

The grammar in this place has gone down hill

 

It will get sh1tter before is gets better

[ratio_decidendi]

How the hell that is supposed to be patronising to us is beyond me.

 

This chip on shoulder persecution complex makes you look far more small time that anything that journalist has written.

 

Infamy, infamy.

 

Yeah, totally.

 

OP is reading far too much into something which is simply a given fact: in the England set up, players from more well known teams tend to get picked over ones from smaller ones. And somehow the journalist is being patronising for pointing this out. Ridiculous.

[Pamplemousse]

I don't this patronising at all

[Secret Site Agent]

And don't forget that Frasers wrists are stronger than Hart's. This is due to the fact that Joe has had his damaged by washing his hair too much and regularly spunking onto oodles of cash.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Surely it is suggesting he can establish himself DESPITE playing for Saints? That's the way I read it but if I have got that wrong I apologise most sincerely and promise you all I won't waste any more of your valuable time by starting spurious threads.

[Toadhall Saint]

I thought after South Africa we might have learned a lesson, but same old, same old. There have been so many false dawns, that in all honesty, while I hope BFS is going to be different, I fully expect the same old carp to be served up.

 

Unless the new manager gets cart blanche to pick his squad and play the system he wants I have to agree with you.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

How the hell that is supposed to be patronising to us is beyond me.

 

This chip on shoulder persecution complex makes you look far more small time that anything that journalist has written.

 

Infamy, infamy.

 

TBF we normaly leave that to you

[CB Fry]

They think Jeremy Corbin is a good leader and will make a good Prime Minister....

 

If you're talking about the Guardian then you really haven't got a clue. The slightest venture onto their comments section shows how the Corbynista lunatics perceive the Guardian, and in fairness they're right, there's hardly anyone on the paper supportive of him at all.

[benjii]

Surely it is suggesting he can establish himself DESPITE playing for Saints? That's the way I read it but if I have got that wrong I apologise most sincerely and promise you all I won't waste any more of your valuable time by starting spurious threads.

 

But it's true isn't it?

 

Who has ESTABLISHED themselves in the England side whilst playing for Saints, or any other similar club? Sure, Lambert, Lallana, Bertrand, Forster, Rodriguez have got the odd cap but none of them is established. Bertrand is probably the best English left back other than Shaw but he's behind Rose because Rose plays at Tottenham, Super Tottenham, Super Tottenham, from the Lane.

 

Lallana only became an established starter this season, after moving to Liverpool. Likewise, Clyne - although he then got dropped for Walker for some reason.

 

Someone else mentioned Drinkwater. He got a cap or two but was left out altogether for Henderson and Wilshere; two players who were not exactly fit.

 

Here's our typical starting 11 from the summer:

 

Hart (Man City)

Walker (Spurs)

Smalling (Man U)

Cahill (Chelsea)

Rose (Spurs)

Dier (Spurs)

Alli (Spurs)

Rooney (Man U)

Lallana / Sturridge (Liverpool)

Sterling / Sturridge (Man City, Lpool)

Kane (Spurs)

 

So, basically, no one outside the "big clubs" (plus media favourites, Spurs) has established themselves in the England side. That despite Leicester winning the league and Saints and West Ham finishing above Liverpool and Chelsea. Maybe that's just a coincidence and maybe Roy's selections were the best available to him but the premise that if you want to establish yourself in the England side you'd better join a "big" club looks pretty solid.

 

Are you telling me Forster wouldn't have a better chance of ousting Hart if he played for Liverpool?

[david in sweden]

Not 100% sure of the accuracy of this,

but was once told that the record England caps holder Peter Shilton made more of his England appearances as a Saints player than he did at any other club?

 

if that's true there is a perfect legacy for Forster to follow, pretty sure Flowers was also capped for England whilst playing for Saints. .

 

 

I believe that to be true also.

Shilton played for Saints between 1982-1987 and during that time was capped for England 49 times.

This beat the previous record for a Saints player (Mick Channon) who played for England 45 times between 1972-77.

 

Shilton's career started with Leicester, then he moved onto Notts Forest before joining Saints (1982) after which he played for Derby County and he was (more or less) the regular England keeper during this time. The remainder of his 125 apps. were spead over his time in those clubs, and he played 61 England games after his 35th birthday.

 

Whilst still a Saints player Tim Flowers played ONE game for England (v.Brazil in 1993) before being transferred to Blackburn, where he joined former Saints Alan Shearer and Jeff Kenna and the three of them were part of the team that afterwards won the Premier League title.

[Hamilton Saint]

sh1t

sh1ttier

sh1ttiest

 

The grammar in this place has gone down hill

 

The correct form is downhill, not "down hill". And don't forget the full stop.

[jam]

Surely it is suggesting he can establish himself DESPITE playing for Saints? That's the way I read it but if I have got that wrong I apologise most sincerely and promise you all I won't waste any more of your valuable time by starting spurious threads.

 

I read it as a reference to the big club bias that England managers are traditionally perceived to have.

[david in sweden]

In some ways, the media are worse at picking an England side than the manager is, but they behave as though they know more than the national team manager.

Hodgson selected his teams at the peril of the media, who always promoted London-based players at Arsenal and Tottenham to the detriment of others.

Has everyone noticed that almost every Wembley game includes 5 or 6 players from " London clubs " . That means it's a Catch 22 situation for the manager.

(as Lawrie McMenemy once famously quoted) ....if we win they say the team played well, if we lose .... it was my fault because I picked them.

 

All the players had a long season, but the younger Spurs players suddenly looked disillusioned when England went behind. Finishing in the top four, Spurs players must had got used to running " rough-shod" over most Prem sides, but even during our win at White Hart Lane, they were beginning to look the worse for wear.

 

Selecting the "media's sweetheart" Jack Wilshere was total madness for a player who had been out injured much of the season, and FB's Walker and Rose were run ragged, and lucky at times not to be yellow-carded. Eric Dier did little more than get his name on the scoresheet, and Harry Kane looked " little boy lost " was right out of step.

 

In retrospect.... Messers; Forster, Bertrand, Lallana and Clyne must be glad they spent that 90 minutes on the bench, and they will live to play another day.

 

The players who lost that infamous match to Iceland will stay in people's memories as long as it does for we "old timers" who can still name the 1966 World Cup side.

[St_Tel49]

In some ways, the media are worse at picking an England side than the manager is, but they behave as though they know more than the national team manager.

Hodgson selected his teams at the peril of the media, who always promoted London-based players at Arsenal and Tottenham to the detriment of others.

Has everyone noticed that almost every Wembley game includes 5 or 6 players from " London clubs " . That means it's a Catch 22 situation for the manager.

(as Lawrie McMenemy once famously quoted) ....if we win they say the team played well, if we lose .... it was my fault because I picked them.

 

All the players had a long season, but the younger Spurs players suddenly looked disillusioned when England went behind. Finishing in the top four, Spurs players must had got used to running " rough-shod" over most Prem sides, but even during our win at White Hart Lane, they were beginning to look the worse for wear.

 

Selecting the "media's sweetheart" Jack Wilshere was total madness for a player who had been out injured much of the season, and FB's Walker and Rose were run ragged, and lucky at times not to be yellow-carded. Eric Dier did little more than get his name on the scoresheet, and Harry Kane looked " little boy lost " was right out of step.

 

In retrospect.... Messers; Forster, Bertrand, Lallana and Clyne must be glad they spent that 90 minutes on the bench, and they will live to play another day.

 

The players who lost that infamous match to Iceland will stay in people's memories as long as it does for we "old timers" who can still name the 1966 World Cup side.

 

To be fair I don't think that many in the press were advocating Wiltshire. That was a bee in the Manager's bonnet.

[david in sweden]

To be fair I don't think that many in the press were advocating Wiltshire. That was a bee in the Manager's bonnet.

 

not so sure..

 

That infamous ex-Saint ..Andy Townsend was really in love with Jack, and gave him MoM in an England game where he only played for 20 minutes as sub.

[Jonnyboy]

'They'? It's sport, it's the journalists opinion. I know left wing people who write for right wing media and vice versa.

 

The Guardian aren't even fans of Corbyn.

[captainchris]

Hopefully, one of the reasons Sam has been appointed, is because he won't pick players just because they're at a big club.

 

This has been an England problem for years.

A man who talks sense... This has been England's biggest problem since Alf Ramsey. Successive Managers have picked players from the big teams in the Premier League rather than the best players... Prime example was Townsend being left out and to some extent Carrol too... The perpetual hideous adiction to Rooney is also rediculous ....

My first question to Big Sam in the interview would have been what squad would you have picked for the Euro's ?

Would you have picked a player who has only played half a game in the whole seasn prior to the Euro's ???

Impressionable managers are the issue with the England job...

Anyway, on second thoughts keep Saints players out of the limelight and keep the vultures away....

[supersonic]

Hopefully, one of the reasons Sam has been appointed, is because he won't pick players just because they're at a big club.

 

This has been an England problem for years.

 

Apart from when hodgson took over...

[FriendlySaint]

It is actually a disgrace the Joe Hart gets to play for England over Forster. Literally everything about Forster as a goalkeeper, leader, team mate etc is better

 

I would have been picked Bertrand over Rose in the Euro's. Shaw is the number one for me now though. I also feel Clyne should have been playing over Walker. Carroll and Defoe should have been in the squad. Drinkwater and Noble too. Sterling shouldn't have been there at all and was a starter. Wilshere shouldn't have been there. Vardy should have been playing over Kane. In fact the way England played Carroll would have suited them best.. As they were constantly getting into crossing positions. Sturridge should only play as a striker etc etc

 

I could go on and on, but I could be wasting my time as my opinion means nothing in reality. So many question marks over Hodgson and the media. And what certain players earn and the club's they play for. Lallana for example is a great dribbler and really hard working, perfect for a CM in a 433 that already has an anchor man, yet he is seen as a winger for club and country. I'd play Lallana as a CM in a 433 and people might laugh at that. Football really is strange.

[angelman]

not so sure..

 

That infamous ex-Saint ..Andy Townsend was really in love with Jack, and gave him MoM in an England game where he only played for 20 minutes as sub.

 

Surely you are mistaken. Our Andy is ex Chelsea and nothing else.

[Batman]

hoddle had a hard-on for Rose in one of the friendlies when he gave him MoM. which was really odd

[david in sweden]

Surely you are mistaken. Our Andy is ex Chelsea and nothing else.

 

he got there via Norwich, but although he brags about his own footballing career, he never mentions ......his time at Saints.

[VectisSaint]

Surely you are mistaken. Our Andy is ex Chelsea and nothing else.

Really, always think of the **** as Villa, through and through.

[VectisSaint]

not so sure..

 

That infamous ex-Saint ..Andy Townsend was really in love with Jack, and gave him MoM in an England game where he only played for 20 minutes as sub.

You said "press", by what stretch of the imagination is Townsend "press". Media, OK. Does he write for a paper? Can he even write?

[Berudenot2]

The whole England set up in qualification and tournaments is like Groundhog day only each revisit has no chance of improving.

[david in sweden]

You said "press", by what stretch of the imagination is Townsend "press". Media,

 

OK. Does he write for a paper? Can he even write?

 

 

well he's been described as an expert "something or other "on TV. "Commentator" is stretching it a bit, but he seems to get more attention than some others.

 

I noted that Wikipedia describes him as a " football pundit" (whatever that is ?).....for ITV Sport, which must put him several rungs below your average journo, I suppose.

 

Write?...you mean with a pen?. Is that a requirement for a footballer nowadays?. What's wrong with putting a mark X on the contract ..or a thumbprint?

Edited 23 July, 2016 by david in sweden

[angelman]

Maybe it is a little early for the Mail but of the friendlies....

 

Celtic v Leicester

Bradford v Burnley

B Rovers v Swansea

S****horpe v Hull

Karlsruher v WHU

Preston v Stoke

Lokeren v Newcastle

Barnsley v Everton

yesterdays games involving Arsenal and Man U

 

all get mentioned. Any mention of us? Of course not, not that I really care not least because it is a friendly. I just find it interesting which teams this rag (and it really is a **** rag) reports on.

[eelpie]

he got there via Norwich, but although he brags about his own footballing career, he never mentions ......his time at Saints.

 

But does anyone remember his time at Saints?

[david in sweden]

But does anyone remember his time at Saints?

 

depends how old you are, I suppose......apparantly he doesn't want to.

[cellone]

great thread

[angelman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3734138/Olympic-podium-no-place-cheats-bans-four-years-missing-link-Pogba-business-Manchester-United-FIVE-POINTS.html

 

Point three: about Southampton's chances this season

Every year I enjoy Martin and the boys going Saints-blind. He lists managers going head to head from teams like West Ham, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea and as usual Southampton don't get a mention despite finishing above all of those teams last year. Fair enough, we're used to it now but you would think that finishing eighth, seventh and then sixth in the last three years would at least get us a mention. How high would we have to get to be mentioned? Third? Would we be visible then, Martin? Sonicboom 208, Southampton.

 

The piece you are referring to concerned the interest in the season that stems from managerial personalities, and Slaven Bilic, Antonio Conte and Jurgen Klopp at least are all compelling characters.

Equally, Ronald Koeman's mention was an acknowledgement of his success at Southampton last season. I don't think I would have included Everton in the list if Roberto Martinez was still in charge.

I take your point about Everton versus Southampton, certainly because they have now sold John Stones – which hadn't happened at the time the column was written.

But I'm not Saints blind, Sonic. I just don't fancy them very much, because they keep selling their best players. Now I know they keep proving me wrong, and I'm very happy for them to do that again.

But I do think that eventually it will catch up with them. They'll sell one too many, the new arrivals won't be good enough, the new manager won't be as smart as everyone thinks, there will be a run of injuries, something will go wrong.

Happened to Wimbledon eventually, happened to Tottenham before Harry Redknapp turned them around, it has even happened to Arsenal at an elite level, if you think they haven't won the title since 2004.

Selling comes with a price, and at the very least it makes Southampton an unknown quantity again, with a manager, Claude Puel, experiencing the Premier League for the first time.

I hope it works, because I like the football they play – but I wouldn't place them among the contenders, if that's what you want.

 

Shame that Samuel can't be honest about his feelings about Southampton, and unfortunately you can't leave a message on there pointing out that he had lost a court case against Saints, thus why he is so jaundiced.

[cellone]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3734138/Olympic-podium-no-place-cheats-bans-four-years-missing-link-Pogba-business-Manchester-United-FIVE-POINTS.html

 

Point three: about Southampton's chances this season

Every year I enjoy Martin and the boys going Saints-blind. He lists managers going head to head from teams like West Ham, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea and as usual Southampton don't get a mention despite finishing above all of those teams last year. Fair enough, we're used to it now but you would think that finishing eighth, seventh and then sixth in the last three years would at least get us a mention. How high would we have to get to be mentioned? Third? Would we be visible then, Martin? Sonicboom 208, Southampton.

 

The piece you are referring to concerned the interest in the season that stems from managerial personalities, and Slaven Bilic, Antonio Conte and Jurgen Klopp at least are all compelling characters.

Equally, Ronald Koeman's mention was an acknowledgement of his success at Southampton last season. I don't think I would have included Everton in the list if Roberto Martinez was still in charge.

I take your point about Everton versus Southampton, certainly because they have now sold John Stones – which hadn't happened at the time the column was written.

But I'm not Saints blind, Sonic. I just don't fancy them very much, because they keep selling their best players. Now I know they keep proving me wrong, and I'm very happy for them to do that again.

But I do think that eventually it will catch up with them. They'll sell one too many, the new arrivals won't be good enough, the new manager won't be as smart as everyone thinks, there will be a run of injuries, something will go wrong.

Happened to Wimbledon eventually, happened to Tottenham before Harry Redknapp turned them around, it has even happened to Arsenal at an elite level, if you think they haven't won the title since 2004.

Selling comes with a price, and at the very least it makes Southampton an unknown quantity again, with a manager, Claude Puel, experiencing the Premier League for the first time.

I hope it works, because I like the football they play – but I wouldn't place them among the contenders, if that's what you want.

 

Shame that Samuel can't be honest about his feelings about Southampton, and unfortunately you can't leave a message on there pointing out that he had lost a court case against Saints, thus why he is so jaundiced.

Seems like a reasonable response to me and I agree with several of the points made.

 

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk

[Dark Munster]

[h=1]Saints on a slippery slope[/h]

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/10529211/premier-league-betting-tips-ante-post-201-17-relegation-preview

[Mr Biscuits]

[h=1]Saints on a slippery slope[/h]

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/10529211/premier-league-betting-tips-ante-post-201-17-relegation-preview

 

What a tool

[captainchris]

It

I would love this to be the case but the FA will pressure him to fit Rooney in the team somehow and play Jack Wheelchair even if he has played 13 mins all season.

 

Players like Drinkwater & Noble should of gone to the Euros as they were in form all season,but nope,we have to go with the "biggest" names.

English football needs a total overhaul from grass roots level up, we should look at the way the German FA changed football in Germany after Euro 2000 and follow that model, until something drastic is done we will continue to embarrass ourselves on the world stage at every major competition (providing we qualify)

Very accurate and sensible post. Sam will nothing picking the press favourites so the choice is his! What will he do I wonder? Does he have the balls ?

[The9]

[h=1]Saints on a slippery slope[/h]

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/10529211/premier-league-betting-tips-ante-post-201-17-relegation-preview

 

"with Graziano Pelle (China), Victor Wanyama (Tottenham) and Sadio Mane (Liverpool) all now plying their trade elsewhere and even the most upbeat of Saints fans would find it tough to argue that there is a now considerable void to fill."

 

Actually I'm fairly sure only the most miserable of Saints fans have been arguing this. The former was already second choice by the end of the season and the club had clearly planned for replacing him over 6 months ago - it also happened to coincide with our best run of the season. Wanyama wasn't a patch on his previous form and Romeu came on leaps and bounds - Clasie, Ward-Prowse and especially so far Hojbjerg look like they could offer us plenty in replacement. Mane's gone, but Redmond has also, so far, been very impressive.

 

My concern isn't so much about the squad itself, it's about the schedule. Last season due to our EL qualification and the timing of the fixtures we faced many the sides in Europe when they'd just played a European game - and because we went out early, we didn't have the same distraction. That absolutely helped us with results against the top teams. This season we're going to be playing in EL group games ourselves, it's probably going to cost us at least 10 points compared to last season's fixtures from a combination of playing fresher sides when we're tired, and not playing less fresh sides when we are.

[nta786]

"with Graziano Pelle (China), Victor Wanyama (Tottenham) and Sadio Mane (Liverpool) all now plying their trade elsewhere and even the most upbeat of Saints fans would find it tough to argue that there is a now considerable void to fill."

 

Actually I'm fairly sure only the most miserable of Saints fans have been arguing this. The former was already second choice by the end of the season and the club had clearly planned for replacing him over 6 months ago - it also happened to coincide with our best run of the season. Wanyama wasn't a patch on his previous form and Romeu came on leaps and bounds - Clasie, Ward-Prowse and especially so far Hojbjerg look like they could offer us plenty in replacement. Mane's gone, Redmond has also, so far, been very impressive.

 

My concern isn't so much about the squad itself, it's about the schedule. Last season due to our EL qualification and the timing of the fixtures we faced many the sides in Europe when they'd just played a European game - and because we went out early, we didn't have the same distraction. That absolutely helped us with results against the top teams. This season we're going to be playing in EL group games ourselves, it's probably going to cost us at least 10 points compared to last season's fixtures from a combination of playing fresher sides when we're tired, and not playing less fresh sides when we are.

 

Yeah do agree with that, if we had played a City side who didn't have a CL semifinal, and if Kane finished his chance before half time at WHL, rather than the 6 pts we got I reckon we would have got 0/1, and no Europa League.