How do we create an environment where players want to stay?

[Saint Without a Halo]

Correct. Win the Eurosupercup a few years in a row and we will be able to draw in all those players from ManU, Chelsae etc, maybe even Pogba for $150M or so.

 

(That was one of the attractions of division 3: none of this nonsense)

 

Actually the same thing applied to clubs in league 1 when we were there only down there we were the BIG club

[Saint Without a Halo]

What to do? Well maybe players would want to stay if Southampton could win the Premier League title and go on to compete in the Champions League.

 

Hang on though. Leicester have done that and they are still losing players, even to clubs not playing in European competition at all.

 

There's an easy answer to keeping players which is to pay them obscene wages along the lines of the You Know Who clubs. Do that and not only will the current ones want to stay but others would be beating down the door to come here. There are obstacles of course; the club has to have enough money to do it, and even if Katherina were to offer a few hundred million, there are the Fair Play rules. C'est la vie.

 

We cannot afford to pay the whole team mega bucks without risking the club given our commercial income compared to others

We cannot pay some players mega bucks without upsetting others leading to an uncommitted team or an inflationary spiral

We have therefore decided to depend on young players wishing to make a name for themselves in the premier by giving them a stage and allowing the successful ones to move on this action means that unlike the top clubs who cannot guarantee good young players regular football we can and that means they are more likely to come to us and good kids are more likely to prefer our academy this is a model that works for us

Trying to ape the top clubs high spending model will never work for us and trying to copy the Stokes WBAs etc who depend on older players past their sell by date to ensure player continuity would also risk the investment we have made to date to attract the best young talent and would be a retrograde step

 

Our strategy and the efforts we have made to make our club attractive to youth either in the academy or joining our first team is what has brought us recent success

This is a perfect self sustaining model that allows us to grow step by step commercially as well as compete regularly in the top ten

 

Year by year we are becoming stronger commercially and whils still a long way behind the top six clubs or so in terms of income and profits we are widening the gap between us and everyone else

 

We also get to see two to three years of great young players proving themselves against the best which gives us great results against top teams as well as seven consecutive years of league improvement and commercial growth year on year so not all bad is it!

[Pilchards]

If we can't keep a manager then what chance have we in keeping players?

[washsaint]

If we can't keep a manager then what chance have we in keeping players?

 

VVD, JWP, Bertrand, Davis, Forster.....and hopefully Tadic and Long too.

 

Not too bad and shows your statement to be hopelessly wrong.

 

If a player wants to go they'll go - if they believe in the project they'll stay: or go for mega bucks based on the longer contracts in play.

[CB Fry]

release clause?

be interesting to see if Leicester would have accepted the bid had they been in a position to

Did they have release clauses imposed on them then? Poor Leicester, I hope that never happens to us.

[Patrick Bateman]

If last years league winners can't keep hold of their best players how can we expect to be any different! ?

 

This

[eddie]

Silly OP.

 

You say that there is little to nothing the club can do, and then say you don't want a discussion about money.

 

Hi. Part of the point of the post is to turn the conversation away from saying that players have been and will be driven by financial incentives, and that there are measures a small club like Southampton can take to be proactive and create a place where players want to stay. Most of the posts have really good ideas.

 

I'm not shying away from the fact ST and tv money, as well as sponsorships, will make or break Saints ability to keep hold of players. It's a money game these days, and that's a little sad.

 

However, I wonder if there's things we can do - other clubs of a similar size to us seem to have less turnover.

 

For instance, does the club look to sign players that are of the same nationality or knew each other before? (Cedric/Fonte, Pelle/Tadic, Bertrand/Romeu, VVD/Clasie, VVD/Forster/Wanyama).

The club also seems to put a lot of energy into facilities.

As well, there seems to be a solid structure of player development, both for youth, yes, as we know, but also for first team. physically and in terms of football development. Injured players get a lot of support and that's been a reason JRod and FF signed new contracts, according to the vids.

More trivial, ehat comes across from the OS material/social media is that there is a good atmosphere, there's always some trite stuff at xmas time but it seems fun and relaxed.

The club has a clearly communicated vision, values, culture and especially relevant for footballers, mentality of approaching the game, which is that we try to play to win, we want to be in the opponents half, we want to play the ball, if you prove yourself you will get playing time opportunity, no matter the value/age.

 

These are some of the kinds of things I've seen in the last couple years since promotion.

 

But you're right that money can't be avoided, just a Q of whether other factors can be just as attractive.

[Professor]

We cannot afford to pay the whole team mega bucks without risking the club given our commercial income compared to others

We cannot pay some players mega bucks without upsetting others leading to an uncommitted team or an inflationary spiral

We have therefore decided to depend on young players wishing to make a name for themselves in the premier by giving them a stage and allowing the successful ones to move on this action means that unlike the top clubs who cannot guarantee good young players regular football we can and that means they are more likely to come to us and good kids are more likely to prefer our academy this is a model that works for us

Trying to ape the top clubs high spending model will never work for us and trying to copy the Stokes WBAs etc who depend on older players past their sell by date to ensure player continuity would also risk the investment we have made to date to attract the best young talent and would be a retrograde step

 

Our strategy and the efforts we have made to make our club attractive to youth either in the academy or joining our first team is what has brought us recent success

This is a perfect self sustaining model that allows us to grow step by step commercially as well as compete regularly in the top ten

 

Year by year we are becoming stronger commercially and whils still a long way behind the top six clubs or so in terms of income and profits we are widening the gap between us and everyone else

 

We also get to see two to three years of great young players proving themselves against the best which gives us great results against top teams as well as seven consecutive years of league improvement and commercial growth year on year so not all bad is it!

 

Thank you for making my point more clearly. Much as we would like it to be different, this is the way it is. The big city clubs with national and international brand recognition have an advantage that clubs like Leicester and Southampton have little hope of replicating. But some of those big clubs do have off years, as Chelsea and Liverpool have shown with no European competition next season. The excitement comes from trying to do this to some of them, even if briefly. The recent 5-year contracts show there are players willing to commit to the club and we shouldn't be too concerned that there are others for whom the prospect of a bigger salary tempts them away. The vacancies have been well used as opportunities to improve the squad so its not always a bad thing even if a well-respected player moves on.

[Batman]

Win the Asia Cup. Until then........ May as well not bother

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

What to do? Well maybe players would want to stay if Southampton could win the Premier League title and go on to compete in the Champions League.

 

Hang on though. Leicester have done that and they are still losing players, even to clubs not playing in European competition at all.

 

There's an easy answer to keeping players which is to pay them obscene wages along the lines of the You Know Who clubs. Do that and not only will the current ones want to stay but others would be beating down the door to come here. There are obstacles of course; the club has to have enough money to do it, and even if Katherina were to offer a few hundred million, there are the Fair Play rules. C'est la vie.

 

As long as there's players agents, who get a massive cut from any transfer fee, you will never create an environment where players want to stay. It's not about the club, loyalty or even playing at the highest level any more. As you say, why would a player leave a club who are about to play in the Champions league for a club who are not playing european football?..... MONEY! Players don't give a **** about who they play for as long as they're getting paid mega bucks. They'll kiss the badge whilst they're there but watch them run when their agent smells more money. It's all about looking after number one and going wherever the agent can get the best deal.

As Didi Hamann recently said "The Premier League is not the best league in the world, it's a farce. The players all earn too much money - which is not their fault, but they have no loyalty and no incentive to improve their game. Their wages should be performance based. Whilst you give players huge sums of money without any incentive to earn, you are never going to get the best from anyone".

[Roboze]

and now we have China to contend with! Pelle at 200k+ a week is ridiculous! but of course he has to go for THAT wage. we do what we DO very well, all is good and now we are getting players to sign long contracts, meaning either they stay or it'll cost big money to get them out of those contracts, i honestly believe we are ahead of the game in our realisation of the future of where this game is going, we are not quite there on the pitch yet, but as a business we are champions league

[Saint86]

Just realised how to keep everyone on board.

 

Bring Cortese back, give him a role where he isn't accountable to the owner in terms of expenditure, and his charisma and spending on outrageous and unsustainable wages will keep everyone together for evermore.

 

He can even enhance the squad with some Gaston's and a few more Osvaldo's from Serie A whilst we're at it.

 

(Just gloss over the fact the only time he faced a large offer, Oxlade-Chamberlain left)

 

I think its hilarious that you have to slate Cortese for gaston and osvaldo (the latter clearly being a Poch signing), but you don't give him credit for being pivotal in bringing MoPo to the club. Nor do you give him any credit for the signings of players like Wanyama, Jayrod, Clyne etc etc. How do you feel about Juanmi, gardos etc etc? I wonder, those are manager signings right? Nothing to do with les reed and the black box?!?!? I've also seen you crediting Les Reed with finding MoPo, which is just laughable... Why do you feel the need to rewrite history to criticise one of the most successful chairmen we've ever had?!?! Beyond me why you can't be grateful to the man.

 

Also you slate the offer for oxlade chamberlain, but we got £12m for a 17 year old kid with a couple of months experience in the 3rd tier of english footy... with a 25% sell on clause, and with a charge per minute clause.... That is a fantastic deal and I'll spare you the embarrassment of finding a better sale of a 3rd tier player (let alone one with that experience) because its just asking you to fail publicly.. you aren't remotely able to do it... but don't let that stop you using his sale as an imaginary stick to beat cortese with...... But to put it into context. We signed tadic, mane, pelle all for less each that we got for this 17year old you are scoffing at us selling... We technically got Long for less when you consider the extra clauses. We got Forster for less. We got Bertrand for less.... I could go on... but suffice to say attacking Cortese's ability to screw people for a good deal perhaps isn't the "in" your after. He was also drove the sport science forward as well as the academy... May have been a hard arse, fine, but he did a great job for us.

[Redslo]

Think we just need to become one of the biggest clubs in the world. Shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

 

True I used to do it every year on Football Manager.

 

Perhaps it should be down to the football authorities to restrict the number of players any club can transfer in, during a given period. Or even ban transfers between clubs at the same level. Or exercise some sort of controls over transfers. I'm sure someone will know, but is it American football that gives the weakest teams first pick of the college kids every year?

 

That is the system in all of the professional team sports in North America although, in some cases, the players are often not college players. Another factor in North American sports is the no trade contracts are not the rule so clubs can trade players to another club more or less at will.

 

Chelsea did it but it cost a billion pounds.

Man City did it quicker and it cost over a billion pounds.

You need to have the best players, compete for tropheys and pay a top age.

 

Just not possible for us unless someone wants to chuck loads and loads (not everton type 100 million) bucket loadsat us.

 

And that is not possible under financial fair player. Frankly, I am skeptical that Everton will have a net spent of 100m pounds this summer or even this season.

 

Yeh, and the bigger teams trade those places in the pick for other things, such as players etc.

The problem will always be down to money and status, which playing for a big clubs gives you, (why you just needed to be English and play for a top 4 club to be picked for the England team until recently.)

And don't forget the 10%ers, the agents. They only get their payday when the player leaves the club, so they encourage this. Look at Koeman, first agent tells him to stay at Sooshampoton, but second agent gets first one out of the way and pushes for the Everton move. Removing them, or banning bonuses would go greatly to stopping this.

 

But in North America the bigger clubs advantages are not as significant. The salary caps are generally real and equal for all clubs. The unionized more restrictive contracts allow players to be underpaid for a number of years compared to what they would bring on the market and no trade contracts are rare so most players can be traded against their will. Also, it helps that there is not competing league for most of these sports unlike in football. If you want to play baseball, basketball, ice hockey, or American Football at the highest level, you have no where else to go.

Edited 18 July, 2016 by Redslo

[St Jim]

Hi.

The more I've read, the more that this summers outgoing transfers have reinforced this idea of Southampton being a club that often sells players. Nothing new here.

However what's apparent is that there's little the club or manager can do when players want out. We hear that was the case with Wanyama, Mane and Juanmi. It's probable Pelle went for money.

 

In any case, im not wanting a discussion about money. There's little we can do if we offer an early contract extension and another club comes and offers double. Maybe there's a way we can negotiate, or clauses about first team appearances, though.

 

But in the long term - how do we create the conditions, the environment, the structure, opportunities, that make players want to stay, and not leave.

 

For example, you might say Mane we just needed to offer a giant contract of money. But there's little we can do to affect saints cash flow other than a buyout or ironically, player sales. Not wanting to look back/regret - for future players, what can the club do to encourage players to stay?

 

Is it play time, is it making them feel settled in England?

 

Would like to hear your thoughts, as I feel we constantly turn to the issue of money. It would be nice to think if there's other ways to ensure there is a core of commuted players and a good culture around the club.

 

I'm not sure there is a lot we can do. Even Leicester, as PL Champions have lost one of their key players in Kante and all indications suggest Mahrez could be going.

 

As long as we do well the big clubs will be sniffing around some of our key players. It's the food chain unfortunately - we feed on those that thrive, and as we thrive the bigger fish feed on us.

[Saint-Fred]

Did they have release clauses imposed on them then? Poor Leicester, I hope that never happens to us.

 

I am not sure that they chose to put them in. I suspect agents insisted otherwise the players would not sign. You do not know if we have them in our contracts?

[doddisalegend]

I am not sure that they chose to put them in. I suspect agents insisted otherwise the players would not sign. You do not know if we have them in our contracts?

 

Leicester could have said no and signed someone else. Saints have never had release clauses in their contracts to the best of my knowledge.

[Saint-Fred]

Leicester could have said no and signed someone else. Saints have never had release clauses in their contracts to the best of my knowledge.

 

They could but Vardy may not have signed an extension so now may be gone? Kante may not have signed for them at all and as a consequence they may not have won the league!

The players and agents have the power, not the club!

It's very easy to say they could say no but as everyone is finding wth wages there is usually someone else who will pay if you don't so it's a choice of make consessions or sign players no one else wants or is ever likely to want.

Do anyone really think LCFC chose, under no pressure at all, to put release clauses into their players contracts?

[Saint-Fred]

Saints have never had release clauses in their contracts to the best of my knowledge.

 

I would be amazed if we didn't have them? They are becoming standard and There are loads of famous examples in England, Everyone knows Suarez had one at Liverpool, wenger and his £1 over etc, Townsend had one at Newcastle( just invoked by Palace,) even that non league goal keeper had one of £1 in his contract!

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's becoming a reality of the modern game.

Also Juanmi has one of 27 million pounds now! Crikey, we should have charged them more lol

[Charlie Wayman]

No doubt Gaston wanted to stay? No doubt Deano wanted to stay? No doubt Chappers wanted to stay? Cuts both ways. It's not one way fickle and cut-throat.

[The9]

I didn't think we wanted players to stay? How are we going to keep improving if we end up stuck with players who aren't good enough to get sold, and how will the books balance if the idiots stop giving us loads of money for our players?

 

Only half tongue-in-cheek...

[The9]

Saints very much have had release clauses before, we had a load of relegation clauses written in under Lowe to protect the club in the event of reduced income - the problem was that we then lost everyone who might have stayed to get us straight back up by the following January because it was before the time when the parachute payments were enough to guarantee everyone's contracts for a full season in the Championship.

[CB Fry]

I would be amazed if we didn't have them? They are becoming standard and There are loads of famous examples in England, Everyone knows Suarez had one at Liverpool, wenger and his £1 over etc, Townsend had one at Newcastle( just invoked by Palace,) even that non league goal keeper had one of £1 in his contract!

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's becoming a reality of the modern game.

Also Juanmi has one of 27 million pounds now! Crikey, we should have charged them more lol

 

Well we've sold a heck of a lot of players in the last three summers and it's not been mentioned once. Maybe we don't have them.

 

The Juanmi one is a red herring - they've all got stupid ones over there, think it might be standard practice.

[The9]

If we take MONEY out of the equation, then I would think that the environment at SFC is one of the best in the EPL.

 

What WE can do as fans in creating a positive environment is to avoid the knee-jerk tendency (on here) to scapegoat one or two players who are in a bad patch of form. Belittling and insulting players and staff has to be counter-productive, eh?

 

It hasn't made the blindest bit of difference to anyone and I think it's mildly deluded to think it will. Unless the atmosphere is absolutely toxic and poisonous and there's a tangible threat to the players getting paid as per their contract, none of them are going to stay because people are being nice, or leave ONLY because people are not.

[The9]

I would be amazed if we didn't have them? They are becoming standard and There are loads of famous examples in England, Everyone knows Suarez had one at Liverpool, wenger and his £1 over etc, Townsend had one at Newcastle( just invoked by Palace,) even that non league goal keeper had one of £1 in his contract!

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's becoming a reality of the modern game.

Also Juanmi has one of 27 million pounds now! Crikey, we should have charged them more lol

 

The "£1" goalkeeper was sold from Blackpool to Bradford - Blackpool aren't (yet) non-league...

[The9]

even if Katherina were to offer a few hundred million, there are the Fair Play rules. C'est la vie.

 

Fair Play rules are basically out of the window with all the additional income every club has from this season, everyone's got the best part of £100m to burn through before they hit that ceiling and it's all a legitimate income source so it can all be spent on wages.

 

That's not to say either that Katharina should spend all her money on players or that there's anything that would necessarily improve the club's fortunes from her doing that. Even with the spending, we'd still need to be massively successful to attract players, winning stuff every season including competing in Europe AND then be spending a fortune on wages... just to get to the level of the clubs we're already competing with (except Leicester).

[Shance]

Pay more money. It is quite literally 100% as simple as that.