Mr Saints Posted 2 February, 2019 Share Posted 2 February, 2019 Bertrand with half a leg should always be in the team over Targett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 An interesting read - not sure whether he's saying he's not doing enough in training to be considered, or his body just isn't ready yet...need him back though - Targett is just not good enough. https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/17410761.southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttl-discusses-ryan-bertrand/?ref=rss SAINTS boss Ralph Hasenhuttl has revealed that Ryan Bertrand is still on the comeback trail. The defender has been a noticeable absentee since the 1-1 draw with Watford last November. It was confirmed that he had to undergo a ‘minor back operation’ in December that was only supposed to keep him out for “12-14 days.” However, Bertrand has now missed 16 games despite returning to full training over two weeks ago. Hasenuhttl said: “I think he is still raising his physical strength. “On this part he has to work because he was long out and it’s normal that if you start again training with the team it takes time until you are at the level where you can play 90 minutes. “It doesn’t make sense to bring any player on the bench if he is unable to play 90 minutes in the moment. “That’s what he has to work on and he is doing it. “We’ve had ten very good intensive sessions [since Bertrand’s returned to training] and played 11 against 11 for a long time in the sessions. “It’s been very intensive with a lot of long runs and that’s exactly what he needs at the moment to come back into the best physical shape.” Given the detail that Hasenhuttl goes into with his players, it’s no surprise to see Bertrand taking longer than expected to return to the starting XI. Matt Targett has taken the defender’s spot at left-back and is flourishing under Hasenhuttl. Targett has three assists to his name since returning to the team, including the cross in the build-up to James Ward-Prowse’s equaliser against Crystal Palace. The 23-year-old has adapted well to the Austrian’s new style of training methods, which include sticking to the new white lines drawn for wing-backs on the Staplewood pitch. The markings are designed to get the defender familiar with the channel he should be making his runs in. Hasenhuttl also sent Bertrand videos of how the team were training while he recovered from his back injury. Now that Bertrand has returned to full training, he is looking forward to the competition it will create between the two left-backs. Hasenhuttl added: “For me, the most important thing is always to have a challenge in every position on the pitch. It helps everyone to develop his game. “If you feel that someone is behind you, and really pushing you, then it makes you do one step more to do what is necessary to come to the high-performance level. Therefore, I need every player.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Bertrand with half a leg should always be in the team over Targett. Is this the same Targett that was given MoM recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 (edited) An interesting read - not sure whether he's saying he's not doing enough in training to be considered, or his body just isn't ready yet...need him back though - Targett is just not good enough. https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/17410761.southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttl-discusses-ryan-bertrand/?ref=rss Reading between the lines, my hunch is that something can't be right with Bertrand, either physically or mentally or both. He's been injury free long enough to partake in "ten intensive 11 v 11 sessions" and yet hasn't even made the bench in recent times....? I accept there's a case for easing players back into the squad after injury, even more so after a "minor operation", but this seems to be taking cotton wool wrapping to unprecidented levels. One could perhaps understand such a zero risk approach if Targett and Bertrand were of equal calibre, but I think its widely recognised that Bertrand is the superior player (when his mind is in the right place of course), so not sure why we wouldn't be trying to accelerate his return (e.g. take a bit of a punt and pop him on the bench even if he isn't quite ready to play 90 mins). It would seem we've taken risks with getting Ings back into the squad of late (maybe?) so why not Bertrand? I've just got this nagging doubt that something isn't quite right between Bertrand and Hassenhuttl. However, like a lot of my hunches, this one could be well wide of the mark....! Edited 6 February, 2019 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Troy Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Reading between the lines, my hunch is that something can't be right with Bertrand, either physically or mentally or both. He's been injury free long enough to partake in "ten intensive 11 v 11 sessions" and yet hasn't even made the bench in recent times....? I accept there's a case for easing players back into the squad after injury, even more so after a "minor operation", but this seems to be taking cotton wool wrapping to unprecidented levels. One could perhaps understand such a zero risk approach if Targett and Bertrand were of equal calibre, but I think its widely recognised that Bertrand is the superior player (when his mind is in the right place of course), so not sure why we wouldn't be trying to accelerate his return (e.g. take a bit of a punt and pop him on the bench even if he isn't quite ready to play 90 mins). It would seem we've taken risks with getting Ings back into the squad of late (maybe?) so why not Bertrand? I've just got this nagging doubt that something isn't quite right between Bertrand and Hassenhuttl. However, like a lot of my hunches, this one could be well wide of the mark....! possibly reading too much in to it. He says he must be able to do 90 mins or he wont get on the bench. Those 11 a sides wont be anywhere near 90 mins of intensive football so although hes done a good few of them it doesnt mean hes ready for 90 mins like ralph wants. He could be laying down a challenge a little but to him to push harder but i dont see loads in it to be honest. That said I suppose the one outstanding isue is that Bertrand was captain when he left with an injury and now i really cant see how he can walk back in as captain given opthers have stepped up their levels in teh mean time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Looking forward to a fully fit Bertie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 possibly reading too much in to it. He says he must be able to do 90 mins or he wont get on the bench. Those 11 a sides wont be anywhere near 90 mins of intensive football so although hes done a good few of them it doesnt mean hes ready for 90 mins like ralph wants. He could be laying down a challenge a little but to him to push harder but i dont see loads in it to be honest. That said I suppose the one outstanding isue is that Bertrand was captain when he left with an injury and now i really cant see how he can walk back in as captain given opthers have stepped up their levels in teh mean time The likes of Austin can't play 90 mins yet can get games and make the bench at least. Why would this be a requirement for RB and clearly not others, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Troy Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 The likes of Austin can't play 90 mins yet can get games and make the bench at least. Why would this be a requirement for RB and clearly not others, I wonder? he has the capability of it. Austin doesnt really due to his physical makeup (inability to train regularly at full tilt) and so a 20 min slot suits what we can get out of him. There is normally someone on the bench who can come on for 90 mins in the case of a v early injury ahead of austin i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 I also think something is very wrong here - I'm not one for moaning at the club, think Ralph has done an excellent job and will support him with the squad rebuild. But ... Ryan is very obviously a better player than Targett. And he must be fit by now. So why isn't he featuring? The above quotes don't answer the issue at all, so we can only have a stab in the dark I'm afraid. Some will think it's a mental / attitude thing, some will think it's a 'mysterious' premier league footballer injury (think of Clyne ...), and some will see it as proof we want rid of all our high earners because we're being done over by the chairman, so are freezing him out. Personally I think it's probably a bit of an attitude issue (not that he has a bad one per se, just that he's not fully in-tune with what Ralph wants), but it's no more than my uninformed hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Bertrand is better than Targett whose joint best attribute (alongside his excellent crossing when stationary) is that he came through our Academy. We are in a relegation battle. Its pretty obvious Bertrand should play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Driving to the Palace game I had the misfortune to listen to Solent. Blackmore asked Ralph if he had an issue with Bertrand. Ralph’s answer was a long winded load of waffle, they went back to the studio and Dave stated that he hoped Ralph hadn’t made his mind up over Bertrand “too early”. Thought the question a bit weird, felt Ralph’s answer unconvincing and wondered why Dave said what he did. Was also surprised nobody mentioned it on here. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 (edited) Am I the only one who thinks Ralph doesn't really fancy Bertrand? If he did he'd be desperate to get him back in the side imo Edited 6 February, 2019 by simo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Am I the only one who thinks Ralph doesn't really fancy Bertrand? If he did he's be desperate to get him back in the side imoI make that at least two of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 How about this for a random and/or bonkers conspiracy theory...Bertrand has some kind of astronomical appearances bonus in his contract so we're waiting for enough games to pass by so that doesn't kick in before throwing him into the action towards the end of the season. (Did I mention this theory was bonkers?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 How about this for a random and/or bonkers conspiracy theory...Bertrand has some kind of astronomical appearances bonus in his contract so we're waiting for enough games to pass by so that doesn't kick in before throwing him into the action towards the end of the season. (Did I mention this theory was bonkers?) More likely, he wasn't playing because we were trying flog him, but now the window has shut. Or, perhaps more likely still, he was injured but now he's nearly better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 His absence doesn't make a lot of sense. He's our best left back, and arguably our best defender. I get that RH expects high fitness levels before players are selected but Austin is fit enough for the bench and is staggered if after 3 weeks or so of training RB is no fitter than Austin. A bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 His absence doesn't make a lot of sense. He's our best left back, and arguably our best defender. I get that RH expects high fitness levels before players are selected but Austin is fit enough for the bench and is staggered if after 3 weeks or so of training RB is no fitter than Austin. A bit weird. If he’s not in Saturday there’s something very strange going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Hmm does seem strange. I wonder whether he had a paddy about not being captain anymore and RH is bringing him into line. All conjecture of course. Guan and Billy? Any news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveloyMush Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Driving to the Palace game I had the misfortune to listen to Solent. Blackmore asked Ralph if he had an issue with Bertrand. Ralph’s answer was a long winded load of waffle, they went back to the studio and Dave stated that he hoped Ralph hadn’t made his mind up over Bertrand “too early”. Thought the question a bit weird, felt Ralph’s answer unconvincing and wondered why Dave said what he did. Was also surprised nobody mentioned it on here. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I heard that too and thought exactly the same as you. Ralph evaded the question. Something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Hmm does seem strange. I wonder whether he had a paddy about not being captain anymore and RH is bringing him into line. All conjecture of course. Guan and Billy? Any news?Is it me or do Guan and Billy seems quieter recently? Maybe out of the loop? Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC-TID! Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Told you all before, Berty has an awkward/special attitude. Champions League winner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Is it me or do Guan and Billy seems quieter recently? Maybe out of the loop? Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Or the news is bad and the club want it contained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 His absence doesn't make a lot of sense. He's our best left back, and arguably our best defender. I get that RH expects high fitness levels before players are selected but Austin is fit enough for the bench and is staggered if after 3 weeks or so of training RB is no fitter than Austin. A bit weird. If he's had surgery and has been unable to train at all for 2-3 months, then he's not going to get back to the required level of fitness in just 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Something is clearly not right, our most experienced player with 19 England caps, champions league medal, had been captain but Ralph obviously not too interested in him, probably another high earner they are planning to get off the wage bill, and having an academy player in place at left back ticks another box for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Bertie has been a bit of a handful for the past few managers in terms of negativity, but who can blame him. RH is exactly the manager he will be able to play his game under. He's effectively going through a mini pre season right now. Expect to see him soon. Presumably his perceived negativity was also behind his omission from Southgate's world cup squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st alex Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Think Targett's been one of our better performers recently, his pace, and crossing have been a real threat going forwards. Seem to remember Bertrand being in quite poor form before he got injured. It seems the longer a player's out for the better fans imagine them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmonton Saint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Think Targett's been one of our better performers recently, his pace, and crossing have been a real threat going forwards. Seem to remember Bertrand being in quite poor form before he got injured. It seems the longer a player's out for the better fans imagine them to be. Yeah I don't understand the abuse Targett gets on here to be fair. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Think Targett's been one of our better performers recently, his pace, and crossing have been a real threat going forwards. I'd agree with that. He's decent and has performed well, with a few assists too. That said, I'd prefer a fit and motivated Bertrand in that position. LeG explanation above kind of conflicts with the comments re the radio solent piece though so I'm none the wiser why he's absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Bertie has been a bit of a handful for the past few managers in terms of negativity, but who can blame him. RH is exactly the manager he will be able to play his game under. He's effectively going through a mini pre season right now. Expect to see him soon. Yep, that’s what I’ve heard. He along with a little clique of others have been shall we say, an issue. Most of them have gone now but given the managers since Koeman have been such a downgrade you can hardly blame them. I guess it comes down to your view on player power. Should we have shipped out the trouble makers in Puels time or were they right? Tricky one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyell Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Interesting to see Jake Vokins added to the first team squad for training this week. Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Interesting to see Jake Vokins added to the first team squad for training this week. I thought the same thing. He joined in with first team training when Ralph joined, but I hadn't seen him in training pics for a few weeks since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Don't get this at all re. 'Bertrand is miles better than Targett'. Matty has improved with a run in the side and is now one of our better performers with more and more assists. Bertrand;s head has not seemed in the right place for 18 months+ and it is clear RH will not (e.g. Cedric as a case in point) play anyone who is not fully committed. Targett has come along well and offers more threat going forward than Bertrand has in quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Is this the same Targett that was given MoM recently? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Told you all before, Berty has an awkward/special attitude. Champions League winner.... You also said he was leaving last week, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintZamboni Posted 6 February, 2019 Share Posted 6 February, 2019 Don't get this at all re. 'Bertrand is miles better than Targett'. Matty has improved with a run in the side and is now one of our better performers with more and more assists. Bertrand;s head has not seemed in the right place for 18 months+ and it is clear RH will not (e.g. Cedric as a case in point) play anyone who is not fully committed. Targett has come along well and offers more threat going forward than Bertrand has in quite some time. Completely agree. Since the ‘guaranteed’ picks of old have all disappeared RH has built an improving, coherent team that hasn’t lost since the Cardiff game. RH clearly doesn’t suffer egos or nonsense. Bertrand doesn’t deserve to come right back in and I don’t think it’s a given he’ll just leapfrog Targett because he is fit again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren2 Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 Presumably his perceived negativity was also behind his omission from Southgate's world cup squad. Yeah I always felt there was another reason he was sent home early due to injury in what was to be his last training session. At the time we all thought it was because he was nailed on for a place. Southgate has also stressed the importance of the attitude.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umlaut Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 Completely agree. Since the ‘guaranteed’ picks of old have all disappeared RH has built an improving, coherent team that hasn’t lost since the Cardiff game. RH clearly doesn’t suffer egos or nonsense. Bertrand doesn’t deserve to come right back in and I don’t think it’s a given he’ll just leapfrog Targett because he is fit again. This. He deserves a string of loses before we start battering his choices considering our recent seasons. Bertrand's position in the squad is pure speculations. Which of course is great discussing on a forum. But it's in no way mental to play Targett as of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC-TID! Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 You also said he was leaving last week, I think. No, I said that was the rumour down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 Yeah I always felt there was another reason he was sent home early due to injury in what was to be his last training session. At the time we all thought it was because he was nailed on for a place. Southgate has also stressed the importance of the attitude.... Unfortunately, some players just see it as a bit of an inconvenience to be selected to play for your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 (edited) If Bertrand had an attitude he’s hidden it well - he’s not openly agitated for a move from this sh1tshow for the past 3 seasons Edited 7 February, 2019 by Crab Lungs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 If Bertrand had an attitude he’s hidden it well - he’s not openly agitated for a move from this sh1tshow for the past 3 seasons Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 Think Targett's been one of our better performers recently, his pace, and crossing have been a real threat going forwards. Seem to remember Bertrand being in quite poor form before he got injured. It seems the longer a player's out for the better fans imagine them to be.Another logical and pretty innocent reason Bertrand us having to wait. Shame we haven't any Cup games left for him. Suspect he's going to have for an injury to Targett, loss of form or the team.climbing to mid-table safety. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 (edited) We are living in some pretty surreal times when Targett is considered a better player than Bertrand.. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Edited 7 February, 2019 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 We are living in seem pretty surreal times when Targett is considered a better player than Bertrand.. He isn’t, Targett has looked poor in a lot of games. Was very disappointed in what I saw against West Ham and Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 I'm sure Bertrand is fine and is just getting back up to full fitness which is probably these days a higher level than previous managers. He was out a long time and not training a long time, seemed like there were complications with his injury and with a back injury I doubt he could do much light training so his fitness probably dropped off quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 We are living in some pretty surreal times when Targett is considered a better player than Bertrand.. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Im not sure i would take anyone's opinion on football seriously if they were trying to convince me that targett is a better player than berty. I appreciate many have an issue with his attitude but on ability its not even a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 More likely, he wasn't playing because we were trying flog him, but now the window has shut. Or, perhaps more likely still, he was injured but now he's nearly better There isn't a single explanation of Ryan Bertrand's absence that cannot be contradicted by other situations other than that Hassenhuttl has a personality clash with the lad. The coach comes across to me as a rules driven bully boy; if you don't conform you're out. My guess Ryan he is being deliberately ****ed off so that he will ask for a transfer in the summer. (check training pics) Gao no doubt sees him as an asset worth £20/24m, not as player with feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoneuelllfanclub Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 There isn't a single explanation of Ryan Bertrand's absence that cannot be contradicted by other situations other than that Hassenhuttl has a personality clash with the lad. The coach comes across to me as a rules driven bully boy; if you don't conform you're out. My guess Ryan he is being deliberately ****ed off so that he will ask for a transfer in the summer. (check training pics) Gao no doubt sees him as an asset worth £20/24m, not as player with feelings.Bertrand has had poor body language and demeanour for last couple of years if you are judging by pictures and videos so nothing new there so don't think anything to do with RH. My guess is RH not going to put up with it and quite rightly alienating Bertrand. Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 Here’s a thought. He hasn’t played because he had an operation and is still not 100% fit. Not as cool as wild speculation and it doesn’t fit in with what some people want to think, but hey, it might just be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 7 February, 2019 Share Posted 7 February, 2019 As someone who has met him numerous times, and spent time with him at meals etc, he's not got an attitude. However, he is an intelligent, serious professional, and Managers of the like of Pell and Hughes have caused issues with his "positivity" - and it would do. However, his actual professionalism in regards to training/playing etc has never been in question. Looking forward to seeing him back - he's a good player and good bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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