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We're back in the JPT!


Bad Wolf

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Each team will play the other once, either home or away. How many will go from Southampton to see the team play Colchester on a midweek evening? How many from Colchester will bother to turn up to see 'Southampton U21s'? How many went to the first leg of the U21 cup final at Blackburn or the reverse fixture?

 

I doubt even with competitive pricing that it will prove to be an economic benefit to the lower league clubs. I would expect most U21 teams to simply get rolled over and learn that they'll be outmuscled against lower league opposition in the whole 3 games that they'll play. Possibly someone like Chelsea will do well and might even win it. If Man City were in it, I could see it being them v Chelsea/Spurs or even Man Utd so next year when they all enter it will fall flat on its face.

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Each team will play the other once, either home or away. How many will go from Southampton to see the team play Colchester on a midweek evening? How many from Colchester will bother to turn up to see 'Southampton U21s'? How many went to the first leg of the U21 cup final at Blackburn or the reverse fixture?

 

I doubt even with competitive pricing that it will prove to be an economic benefit to the lower league clubs. I would expect most U21 teams to simply get rolled over and learn that they'll be outmuscled against lower league opposition in the whole 3 games that they'll play. Possibly someone like Chelsea will do well and might even win it. If Man City were in it, I could see it being them v Chelsea/Spurs or even Man Utd so next year when they all enter it will fall flat on its face.

 

12,356 went to St Mary's for that.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20150420-u21-report-southampton-2-1-blackburn-rovers-2414755.aspx

 

Which would be a very big crowd in League 1 or League 2! It is more people than Portsmouth have as season ticket holders. ;)

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12,356 went to St Mary's for that.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20150420-u21-report-southampton-2-1-blackburn-rovers-2414755.aspx

 

Which would be a very big crowd in League 1 or League 2! It is more people than Portsmouth have as season ticket holders. ;)

 

 

Ah!

 

Wonderful!!!

 

In the first leg the attendance was 995 so let's take the average and say that for the cup final the attendance was circa 6000.

 

In last year's final the attendance for WHam was 10267 and at Hull 3886 so again a roughly comparable figure.

 

For a cup final.

 

Let's have a straw poll and say it's a mere £50 to get to Colchester and back and in the ground and have the traditional pie and pint (only one, some will drive) and enjoy a 300 ish round trip taking say 4 hours. Straight after work and back up the next day again for another day's shift.

 

Perhaps you should actually try harder with your responses as I believe my argument beats yours hands down.

 

:thumbup:

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So all about money then. Hasn't changed my mind.

 

It is all about the money, that's football these days we can't have 92 professional clubs without it being all about the money.

 

In this case it was also about the future of the competition without a title sponsor I think it was probably a season away from collapse the clubs just didn't want it this is a chance to try something different and see if it works a chance to redistribute some of the wealth of the premier league and give young players proper competitive game time. The overall key being it is a one year trial that the vast majority of lower league clubs voted for if it doesn't work they can try something different.

 

Football can't stay the same forever, nothing can everything changes and evolves otherwise there would be no premier league, no champions league etc etc etc now you can argue all you like about whether these are good changes but you can't close Pandora's box!

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I personally don't like the idea to be honest, the JPT (as it was then) was a great opportunity for clubs in 'lesser times' to achieve success and have a great day out. Now it just feels like a devalued reserve cup.

Agree but worth stating that many FL clubs were devaluing the JPT themselves by picking reserve teams etc. There was glamour in getting to the final but the early stages were considered an inconvenience by many FL sides.

 

Obviously we won it so have great memories of it but worth remembering we also had a big squad for that level and a fanbase that got behind it because we knew we had a very good team likely to get deep into the competition.

 

Check the Southend Chairman's comments on it for a different perspective.

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Each team will play the other once, either home or away. How many will go from Southampton to see the team play Colchester on a midweek evening? How many from Colchester will bother to turn up to see 'Southampton U21s'? How many went to the first leg of the U21 cup final at Blackburn or the reverse fixture?

 

I doubt even with competitive pricing that it will prove to be an economic benefit to the lower league clubs. I would expect most U21 teams to simply get rolled over and learn that they'll be outmuscled against lower league opposition in the whole 3 games that they'll play. Possibly someone like Chelsea will do well and might even win it. If Man City were in it, I could see it being them v Chelsea/Spurs or even Man Utd so next year when they all enter it will fall flat on its face.

 

Agree, I actually can't see the U21 teams getting past the 'groups' if they're still doing that.

 

L2 and a lot of L1 still have some traditional cloggers in their teams who'll just kick the sh*t out of the kids who will then be too afraid to get stuck in.

 

And also agree that no one from a proper club (i.e. Colchester in your example) is going to take the trip down to St Marys to see our U21s play their first team. In fact, some clubs may not bother with a first team and play their own reserves ... ? Most people just won't be able to justify the extra expense for this travel.

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Do you think more than a couple of hundred would travel from Colchester to watch a JPT first round game at Crawley on a Tuesday night if the format hadn't changed?

 

There won't be any less people watching than last year because attendances for the early round were ****e.

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Agree, I actually can't see the U21 teams getting past the 'groups' if they're still doing that.

 

L2 and a lot of L1 still have some traditional cloggers in their teams who'll just kick the sh*t out of the kids who will then be too afraid to get stuck in.

 

And also agree that no one from a proper club (i.e. Colchester in your example) is going to take the trip down to St Marys to see our U21s play their first team. In fact, some clubs may not bother with a first team and play their own reserves ... ? Most people just won't be able to justify the extra expense for this travel.

 

The league clubs have to play a certain number of first team players

Edited by Pamplemousse
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Each team will play the other once, either home or away. How many will go from Southampton to see the team play Colchester on a midweek evening? How many from Colchester will bother to turn up to see 'Southampton U21s'? How many went to the first leg of the U21 cup final at Blackburn or the reverse fixture?

 

I doubt even with competitive pricing that it will prove to be an economic benefit to the lower league clubs. I would expect most U21 teams to simply get rolled over and learn that they'll be outmuscled against lower league opposition in the whole 3 games that they'll play. Possibly someone like Chelsea will do well and might even win it. If Man City were in it, I could see it being them v Chelsea/Spurs or even Man Utd so next year when they all enter it will fall flat on its face.

 

Some interesting points here.

Whilst I guess only really hardened fans will travel to Colchester for a mid week game there may be a couple of hundred or so who may travel from London or other outposts of Saints support.

Whilst not disagreeing that our younger players may come up against hardened pros, the likes of McCarthy, Isgrove, Turnbull, Stephens, Seagar, McQeen have all been out on loan at Championship/Leagues 1 & 2 and seem to have acquitted themselves OK.

Also teams such as Crewe have consistently played youngsters and done reasonably OK (although Crewe struggled last year)

It will be interesting to see how we get on

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Dont like the idea. Only good thing is that maybe I can go visit some League 2 stadiums!

 

Also has the draw taken place to some extent because they've already shown possible teams we could play (and theres no Portsmouth?) on the OFficial site

 

Looking at the options for possible opponents, we were grouped in South East, the Skates South West - which sounds ridiculous but our seeding pot as an academy could be geographically very different from theirs as a poky bottom two leagues club. Unless of course one of Saints' criteria for accepting the invitation was a guarantee we wouldn't have to play that lot with our valuable youngsters. :D

 

As far as the draw goes, I've been to all three already (ironically went to Crawley v Newport in the JPT 2 years ago when my friends and family made up 10% of the away following that day) and the wife is unlikely to go to Charlton midweek to get that one ticked off for her, so we'll probably only go to the home game(s?).

Edited by The9
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Southern Section

 

Group A Reading, Bristol Rovers, Portsmouth, Yeovil

 

Group B Swansea, AFC Wimbledon, Newport, Plymouth

 

Group C Chelsea, Swindon, Exeter, Oxford

 

Group D West Ham, Coventry, Wycombe, Northampton

 

Group E Southampton, Charlton, Cochester, Crawley

 

Group F Norwich, Peterborough, Barnet, MK Dons

 

Group G Brighton, Southend, Stevenage, Leyton Orient

 

Group H West Brom, Luton, Millwall, Gillingham

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So Reading ended up South West and we ended up South East?

 

 

Get the feeling that we had a word and said we didn't want to be in PFC's group. Because we're scared of them and would be intimidated or something.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

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So Reading ended up South West and we ended up South East?

 

 

Get the feeling that we had a word and said we didn't want to be in PFC's group. Because we're scared of them and would be intimidated or something.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

I actually imagine neither PFC nor SFC wanted to pay for policing, which let's be honest, would be required. Especially as PFC apparently won't be taking the JPT seriously ;)

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I actually imagine neither PFC nor SFC wanted to pay for policing, which let's be honest, would be required. Especially as PFC apparently won't be taking the JPT seriously ;)

More than likely, especially as it would be a guaranteed evening game. A load of unnecessary ball ache.

 

Still, there's a Portsmyth to be made here.

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So Reading ended up South West and we ended up South East?

 

 

Get the feeling that we had a word and said we didn't want to be in PFC's group. Because we're scared of them and would be intimidated or something.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Lol "had a word"..you crack me up with your "so far from what really happens" comments... it's funny.....it's like your "Stoke player will never sign"

 

 

 

Big fan though..

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A friend of mine is swearing blind that there was "something on twitter" "from the EFL" where they confirmed that Saints/Skates, Port Vale/Stoke and West Ham and Chelsea/Millwall were kept apart, if anyone could find that I'd be intrigued, because all I could find was something about Cambridge and Cheltenham being in the "north" section due to being in the 12 most northerly teams in their division.

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A friend of mine is swearing blind that there was "something on twitter" "from the EFL" where they confirmed that Saints/Skates, Port Vale/Stoke and West Ham and Chelsea/Millwall were kept apart, if anyone could find that I'd be intrigued, because all I could find was something about Cambridge and Cheltenham being in the "north" section due to being in the 12 most northerly teams in their division.

 

Both North and South were split into two "sections" prior to the draw with groups A-D coming from section 1 and groups E-H from section 2. We were in South section 2 with Skates in South section 1 -

 

Can't see an explanation given for this, but given the teams kept apart we can probably guess.

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A friend of mine is swearing blind that there was "something on twitter" "from the EFL" where they confirmed that Saints/Skates, Port Vale/Stoke and West Ham and Chelsea/Millwall were kept apart, if anyone could find that I'd be intrigued, because all I could find was something about Cambridge and Cheltenham being in the "north" section due to being in the 12 most northerly teams in their division.

 

Ian Baker ‏@ianbakersport Jul 27 Maidenhead, South East

 

EFL Trophy appear to have specially prevented Stoke v Port Vale, West Ham v Millwall, Chelsea v Millwall and Southampton v Portsmouth.

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Ian Baker ‏@ianbakersport Jul 27 Maidenhead, South East

 

EFL Trophy appear to have specially prevented Stoke v Port Vale, West Ham v Millwall, Chelsea v Millwall and Southampton v Portsmouth.

 

Thanks, as suspected my mate was talking utter balls.

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Both North and South were split into two "sections" prior to the draw with groups A-D coming from section 1 and groups E-H from section 2. We were in South section 2 with Skates in South section 1 -

 

Can't see an explanation given for this, but given the teams kept apart we can probably guess.

 

Yeah, I knew all that lot, we're onto trying to work out if there's even any kind of attempt at geographical justification behind it. The "Saints in section 2 (east)" and "Skates in section 2 (west)" thing is a red herring...

 

...Looking at the seedings (by division, theoretically geographical).

 

L1

South 1 (unofficially "west")

Wimbledon, Bristol R, Coventry, Northampton, Oxford, Swindon

South 2 ("east")

Charlton, Gillingham, Millwall, MK Dons, Peterborough, Southend

L2

South 1 ("west")

Exeter, Newport, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Wycombe, Yeovil

South 2 ("east")

Barnet, Colchester, Crawley, Leyton Orient, Luton, Stevenage

 

Can't really argue with the east/west split in L1 where the line runs between Northampton (W) and Milton Keynes (E), and between Wimbledon (W) and Charlton (E).

The east/west split in L2 runs between Portsmouth (W) and Crawley (E), and up between Wycombe (W) and Barnet/Luton/Stevenage (E) - again geographical.

 

Where it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, is the Academy split:

South 1 ("west")

Chelsea, Reading, Swansea, West Ham

South 2 ("east")

Brighton, Norwich, Saints, West Brom

 

To justify this geographically, you have to draw a line along the M4 corridor from Swansea, take in Chelsea and Reading, and extend it right across London to include West Ham. In doing so, you have to ignore West Brom and Saints along the way, which are both more western than Chelsea or Reading or West Ham, and yet end up pooled with a team from East Anglia and one from Sussex.

 

Using a pure geographical split the sections would be "South 1" Swansea, West Brom, Saints, Reading; and "South 2" Norwich, Brighton, Chelsea, West Ham.

That would indeed lead to the matches Ian Baker mentioned, as listed above (obviously I haven't checked the northern section for Port Vale/Stoke).

 

If anyone can think of any other justification, feel free - the only one I haven't considered that I think could be viable is that they made the groups based on Arsenal, Spurs, Man U, Man City and whoever else pulled out, which left an imbalance in the original seeding and they just plugged the replacements into their slots, but even then Saints are STILL more westerly than Spurs and Arsenal and would have been in a western group under pretty much any circumstances.

 

So "avoiding rivals" seems like the main criterion. Which is a bit daft for a competition theoretically interested in increasing attendance (and which has nevertheless led to Newport v Swansea).

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A quick n dirty list which might have one or two inaccuracies, but... available overage players (non-internationals for the last 2 group fixtures) from which we can select 5.

 

5 Romania DF Florin Gardoș (maybe)

9 England FW Jay Rodriguez

14 Spain MF Oriol Romeu

15 Curaçao DF Cuco Martina (maybe)

16 England MF James Ward-Prowse

18 England MF Harrison Reed

25 Argentina GK Paulo Gazzaniga

27 Wales MF Lloyd Isgrove

28 England FW Charlie Austin

33 England DF Matt Targett

— England MF Nathan Redmond

 

U23s

24 England DF Jack Stephens

29 England DF Bevis Mugabi

30 England DF Will Wood

31 England MF Armani Little

34 England MF Jake Flannigan

35 England DF Josh Debayo

36 England DF Jordan Turnbull

37 Scotland MF Harley Willard

38 England MF Sam McQueen

39 England MF Josh Sims

40 England FW Sam Gallagher

42 England MF Jake Hesketh

45 England FW Ryan Seager

46 England MF Dominic Gape

47 England FW Marcus Barnes

49 England FW Olufela Olomola

50 England DF Alfie Jones

England GK Harry Lewis

Benin DF Richard Bakary

England DF Ollie Cook

 

I think I'd pick Rodriguez and Austin :D

 

So, I was joking... but... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/20160809-under-23-report-southampton-qpr-friendly-3236731.aspx

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