Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[moonraker]

What? No big words to inflate the impression that you are as clever as Verbal Diarrhoea thinks he is from using them?

 

And how did you enjoy Kindergarten this morning?

 

It was great, we had a new packet of plastacine and I got the red strips.

[Window Cleaner]

It was great, we had a new packet of plastacine and I got the red strips.

 

Plasticine, although it's probably banned nowadays. I'm sure kids could eat it or sniff if....bannnedddddd

[ecuk268]

Plasticine, although it's probably banned nowadays. I'm sure kids could eat it or sniff if....bannnedddddd

 

I think they use playdough now.

 

When my missus taught infants, she used to make her own from food colouring, flour, oil and water so it didn't matter if they ate some.

[Whitey Grandad]

I think they use playdough now.

 

When my missus taught infants, she used to make her own from food colouring, flour, oil and water so it didn't matter if they ate some.

 

I think I've eaten some of that in Asda.

[Johnny Bognor]

Siemens backtracking on their pre-brexit stance...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36772309

 

Pound rallies further on May victory

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Irish economy is now amongst the strongest in the EU with high growth and record low unemployment. What is termed bailout was in reality investment, an investemnt in a key trading partner. The back door reffered to was via UK banks to their Irish subsidies. Banking is a global business and UK banks are major players and earn the UK a fortune despite the banking crises, I dont hear many complaints about the same back door bailout for an Australian Bank by the UK Banks! What would you have done differently and how would this have benefitted the UK economy?

 

Ireland had austerity measures which would have had lefties , unions , Charlotte Church and other assorted unwashed ,marching, wetting their pants and crying on QT weekly . My mate is a nurse at St James' hospital and he had his future pension cut by 10% and then had to pay more in , there were other sweeping austerity measures Gideon wouldn't of had the balls to even contemplate . If you're saying German enforced austerity is a good thing , I'm with you on that and we should have had some ourselves . But I rather suspect you and other remain losers dont find that one of the positives of membership , and although German enforced austerity helped Ireland it crippled Greece.

[moonraker]

Plasticine, although it's probably banned nowadays. I'm sure kids could eat it or sniff if....bannnedddddd

No it is still available got some in a pound shop a few weeks ago! For QI facts devotees Plasticine was invented in my home city of Bath and the HARBUTTS factory was in its day the sole manufacturer of Plasticine, sadly it is now manufactured in Thailand, note no EU grants were involved in the offshoring of an iconic British product!!!!

Edited 12 July, 2016 by moonraker

[Whitey Grandad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36772309

 

Still way down on what it used to be.

[moonraker]

Ireland had austerity measures which would have had lefties , unions , Charlotte Church and other assorted unwashed ,marching, wetting their pants and crying on QT weekly . My mate is a nurse at St James' hospital and he had his future pension cut by 10% and then had to pay more in , there were other sweeping austerity measures Gideon wouldn't of had the balls to even contemplate . If you're saying German enforced austerity is a good thing , I'm with you on that and we should have had some ourselves . But I rather suspect you and other remain losers dont find that one of the positives of membership , and although German enforced austerity helped Ireland it crippled Greece.

Wrong again I believe the austerity measures are in general justifiable, you might argue on the timetable but the old adage you reap what you sow fits for me. Comparing Greece and Ireland does you know favours, apart from a financial crises these countries have very little in common, Eire's inherent culture and work ethic was always likely to see it through, just like the British resilience will in the long term make Brexit work, just wish we could of got on with the day job instead of this unnecessary Right Wing inflicted distraction. t

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Wrong again I believe the austerity measures are in general justifiable, you might argue on the timetable but the old adage you reap what you sow fits for me. Comparing Greece and Ireland does you know favours, apart from a financial crises these countries have very little in common, Eire's inherent culture and work ethic was always likely to see it through, just like the British resilience will in the long term make Brexit work, just wish we could of got on with the day job instead of this unnecessary Right Wing inflicted distraction. t

Fair to say that Ireland could also benefit even more from being the passporting domicile de jour post Brexit. Even with Osborne looking to reduce Corporation Tax, the benefits to foreign businesses must be quite beguiling even with its relatively high minimum wage given the experience in the financial sector and English effectively being their first language. The Celtic Tiger could be back in business

[Lord Duckhunter]

Comparing Greece and Ireland does you know favours, apart from a financial crises these countries have very little in common, Eire's inherent culture and work ethic was always likely to see it through,t

 

Which is exactly why a one size fits all German imposed austerity is wrong . Greece needs currency devaluation and major debt write off , but German/EU ideology is crippling it for generations . The EU is causing Greek misery , but hey it's still a great Union isn't it?

[buctootim]

I think I've eaten some of that in Asda.

 

[buctootim]

Which is exactly why a one size fits all German imposed austerity is wrong . Greece needs currency devaluation and major debt write off , but German/EU ideology is crippling it for generations . The EU is causing Greek misery , but hey it's still a great Union isn't it?

 

Its a moral hazard thing though isnt it. Germany is worried that if they let the Greeks off some of the debt because they really cant pay then other countries who can service their debts will just think 'why should we bother'? The other issue is that many parts of the Greek state, including tax collection, is pretty dysfunctional. If they collected what is due then they could balance the budget wouldn't have run up such massive unsustainable debts. The Germans want to see substantive progress on putting out the fire before they help with rebuilding.

[John B]

Which is exactly why a one size fits all German imposed austerity is wrong . Greece needs currency devaluation and major debt write off , but German/EU ideology is crippling it for generations . The EU is causing Greek misery , but hey it's still a great Union isn't it?

 

Yes I agree with you austerity is not a good thing and counter productive but the UK did the same thing and got re-elected but now that BREXIT has happened the Tories are possibly anti austerity.

 

I think it is slightly over the top to say the EU is not a great Union despite loaning the Greeks billions of Euros to try to fix a completely ****ed economy as revelations that previous data on government debt levels and deficits had been undercounted by the Greek governments as you say it could have been done in a better way

[Lord Duckhunter]

Greece should never have been allowed in the Euro , it was a typical EU fudge together with smoke & mirrors , putting ideology ahead of practical common sense.

 

We are where we are and there are only two things that can save it now . Devaluation of its currency or fiscal Union , where the richer " states" permanently transfer money to the poorer " states" . Neither is acceptable to The Germans , therefore generations of Greeks are ****ed . Such a shame as it is such a wonderful place . The EU should have remained a common market , by blindly following the mantra of ever closer union , the EU has started to implode and will eventually fall apart . But make no mistake, it has ruined the lives of countless youths & families in its poorer areas .

[Verbal]

More direction-of-travel news...

 

Although it's attracted little attention, the locking-up of commercial property investment vehicles is a kind of business run on the bank, and will feed into problems in the wider economy because small and medium firms secure loans on commercial property and now will find it very hard to do so. Even less attention though has been given to the triggering of Brexit break clauses on property deals. One in three (!) pending commercial property deals has fallen through after the Brexit vote.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/millions-wiped-off-commercial-property-market-10499768?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

 

And to make sure the harm is long-term, a senior Tory who's probably going to be central to Brexit planning now predicts it could all take six years before Britain is finally out. That means the 2020 election is more and more likely to be an EU in-or-out campaign.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/12/brexit-could-take-up-to-six-years-to-complete-says-philip-hammond

 

Finally, the "Australian points-based system" pumped up by the Leave campaign seems more and more unlikely.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/12/uk-immigration-system-not-points-based-minister

 

Not that this is a surprise. There was never any prospect of reconciling access to the internal market with the adoption of a highly restrictive system like the Australian one. The Leave campaign just flat-out lied about this, and now the liars have all ****ed off the lies will have to be undone.

[shurlock]

More direction-of-travel news...

 

Although it's attracted little attention, the locking-up of commercial property investment vehicles is a kind of business run on the bank, and will feed into problems in the wider economy because small and medium firms secure loans on commercial property and now will find it very hard to do so. Even less attention though has been given to the triggering of Brexit break clauses on property deals. One in three (!) pending commercial property deals has fallen through after the Brexit vote.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/millions-wiped-off-commercial-property-market-10499768?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

 

And to make sure the harm is long-term, a senior Tory who's probably going to be central to Brexit planning now predicts it could all take six years before Britain is finally out. That means the 2020 election is more and more likely to be an EU in-or-out campaign.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/12/brexit-could-take-up-to-six-years-to-complete-says-philip-hammond

 

Finally, the "Australian points-based system" pumped up by the Leave campaign seems more and more unlikely.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/12/uk-immigration-system-not-points-based-minister

 

Not that this is a surprise. There was never any prospect of reconciling access to the internal market with the adoption of a highly restrictive system like the Australian one. The Leave campaign just flat-out lied about this, and now the liars have all ****ed off the lies will have to be undone.

 

Open-ended funds for inherently illliquid investments are the most moronic idea in finance. The issue is as much about poor design as it is fundamentals.

[Johnny Bognor]

Still way down on what it used to be.

 

Indeed, but it does help exports. If we applied WTO tarrifs to exports to the EU, they would be cheaper than they were pre-referendum with no tarrifs. Yes, the cost of imports would increase but people may think about buying British or buying local, which is no bad thing.

 

The fall in the £ after leaving the ERM was one of the key factors that led to economic growth in the late nineties early noughties.

 

So although the exchange rates are all being played as negative, there are significant upsides.

[buctootim]

Indeed, but it does help exports. If we applied WTO tarrifs to exports to the EU, they would be cheaper than they were pre-referendum with no tarrifs. Yes, the cost of imports would increase but people may think about buying British or buying local, which is no bad thing.

 

The fall in the £ after leaving the ERM was one of the key factors that led to economic growth in the late nineties early noughties.

 

So although the exchange rates are all being played as negative, there are significant upsides.

 

A weaker pound will likely lead to higher inflation and consequently higher interest rates to control it. I agree there are positive aspects to a lower pound - but its hard to say atm if the overall effect will be beneficial or not. What is certain is that the people who gain - primarily businesses who export, wont be same group as the people who lose - consumers, mortgage payers and small businesses.

Edited 13 July, 2016 by buctootim

[Whitey Grandad]

Indeed, but it does help exports. If we applied WTO tarrifs to exports to the EU, they would be cheaper than they were pre-referendum with no tarrifs. Yes, the cost of imports would increase but people may think about buying British or buying local, which is no bad thing.

 

The fall in the £ after leaving the ERM was one of the key factors that led to economic growth in the late nineties early noughties.

 

So although the exchange rates are all being played as negative, there are significant upsides.

 

Even this is not guaranteed. After the banking crash of 2008 the pound dropped (20% I read) but there was no boost to exports.

 

It's not just the tariffs that affect EU sales, it's all the customs red tape, delays and procedures that had been swept away. For a company importing within the EU there is the added cash-flow advantage of not having to pay VAT on the imports. Everything depends on what trade system eventually applies.

[notnowcato]

Its a moral hazard thing though isnt it. Germany is worried that if they let the Greeks off some of the debt because they really cant pay then other countries who can service their debts will just think 'why should we bother'? The other issue is that many parts of the Greek state, including tax collection, is pretty dysfunctional. If they collected what is due then they could balance the budget wouldn't have run up such massive unsustainable debts. The Germans want to see substantive progress on putting out the fire before they help with rebuilding.

 

Well, a moral maze indeed.... and you can't beat the German's when it comes to matters moral can you?

 

They must have learned their lesson when they were the first country to violate the Maastricht Treaty back in 2001. They had a choice of breaking the 3% budget deficit limit or enforcing harsh austerity measures on the German public, guess which way the Germans went?? Yes, they flexed the rules a bit to suit them or should I say the ECB or is that the Bundesbank??? It's so hard to tell.

 

It's not the debt that is killing Greece, it's much much more than that.

[Guided Missile]

It's not the debt that is killing Greece, it's much much more than that.

It is, IMHO, the combination of the cost of being in the EU, both in cash and added overheads together with having a completely overvalued currency in the euro. They will exit the EU and euro within a year and revert to the drachma and if you think that the pound has crashed, wait for their old currency to hit the currency markets. It will be a bloodbath, with the lire, franc and peso sinking when those currencies are revived.

[badgerx16]

It is, IMHO, the combination of the cost of being in the EU, both in cash and added overheads together with having a completely overvalued currency in the euro. They will exit the EU and euro within a year and revert to the drachma and if you think that the pound has crashed, wait for their old currency to hit the currency markets. It will be a bloodbath, with the lire, franc and peso sinking when those currencies are revived.

 

I wasn't aware that Fantasy Island had made a comeback.

[Verbal]

So have any of you Brexiter bright sparks come up with how you're going to reconcile having to be in the internal market (no Tory government, least of all this one, is going to go ahead with Brexit without that) with the EU's flat-out refusal to budge on free movement of people?

 

If not, someone's going to have an awful lot of explaining to do about 'taking back control'. For the kippers and worse among you (and you know who I mean), how's that going to make you feel, if actually the Tories can do absolutely nothing about 'tightening up' the immigration rules for people inside the EU?

[Whitey Grandad]

So have any of you Brexiter bright sparks come up with how you're going to reconcile having to be in the internal market (no Tory government, least of all this one, is going to go ahead with Brexit without that) with the EU's flat-out refusal to budge on free movement of people?

 

If not, someone's going to have an awful lot of explaining to do about 'taking back control'. For the kippers and worse among you (and you know who I mean), how's that going to make you feel, if actually the Tories can do absolutely nothing about 'tightening up' the immigration rules for people inside the EU?

 

There were a couple of poll results (YouGov?) on the BBC the other night (for what they're worth). One said that 66% wanted to stay in the Single Market. The other said that 52% wanted to end free movement of labour. Somebody is going to be disappointed.

 

I couldn't help but notice this part of May's speech:

 

"The full title of my party is the Conservative and Unionist party and that word unionist is very important to me. It means we believe in the union, the precious, precious bond between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

 

It seemed to me to be a bit early to lay down that marker of all the things that she could have said. I just wonder whether this might be a prelude to using the Scots propensity to leave the UK as a means of limiting the extend of the EU divorce. What was that Chinese curse? 'May you live in interesting times'

[derry]

Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary, David Davis Brexit Minister, Liam Fox International Trade, contrary to wishful thinking it sounds like we are about to play hardball with the EU. In the end the neatest solution is no agreement and just walk away. That should concentrate minds at the EU. The Government has no wriggle room, they either get a result or they will lose the next election with UKIP benefiting enormously with the support of a disillusioned leave vote of traditional Conservative and Labour voters. Even a UKIP majority if Labour implode and split.

[CB Fry]

Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary, David Davis Brexit Minister, Liam Fox International Trade, contrary to wishful thinking it sounds like we are about to play hardball with the EU. In the end the neatest solution is no agreement and just walk away. That should concentrate minds at the EU. The Government has no wriggle room, they either get a result or they will lose the next election with UKIP benefiting enormously with the support of a disillusioned leave vote of traditional Conservative and Labour voters. Even a UKIP majority if Labour implode and split.

Just walk away from what?

[Lord Duckhunter]

So have any of you Brexiter bright sparks come up with how you're going to reconcile having to be in the internal market (no Tory government, least of all this one, is going to go ahead with Brexit without that) with the EU's flat-out refusal to budge on free movement of people?

 

If not, someone's going to have an awful lot of explaining to do about 'taking back control'. For the kippers and worse among you (and you know who I mean), how's that going to make you feel, if actually the Tories can do absolutely nothing about 'tightening up' the immigration rules for people inside the EU?

 

Lol , this from the bloke who said Leave had no chance of winning .

[Whitey Grandad]

Just walk away from what?

 

£223bn of exports a year?

[Verbal]

Lol , this from the bloke who said Leave had no chance of winning .

 

What's wrong with you? I said just a few posts back that I - along with CB Fry I believe - had predicted Leave would win. It was pretty obvious that the cacophony of lies and xenophobic distortions by the Brexit campaign would take its toll.

 

So what about an answer to my question? Internal market or restrictions on free movement?

[Lord Duckhunter]

It was pretty obvious that the cacophony of lies and xenophobic distortions by the Brexit campaign would take its toll.

 

 

Oh yes, the old " voters are too stupid and easily conned ". Has it ever occurred to you that voters thought about the issues as much as you did, weighed up both sides arguments , decided what was best for the country and voted accordingly ? No of course it hasn't . Anybody who voted differently than you must be thick or selfish , anybody who argued a different line than you must be telling lies or be racist . People looked at what remain said and what leave said , they are perfectly capable of working out what are lies and what aren't. It's not like nobody pointed out these so called " lies" , that's all the remain losers ever did . Every claim was discussed , taken apart and analised day after day . And guess what , more people voted leave than have voted for anything in British political history .

[Johnny Bognor]

£223bn of exports a year?

 

This kind of line is getting a tad annoying. With no deal, exports could be hampered. But to suggest there would be no exports at all is beyond ridiculous. With the lower value of the pound, our exports would already be cheaper than they were, even if 10% tarrifs were imposed. Average WTO tarrifs are 3-4%.

 

Granted there would be more paperwork and red tape but this would work both ways, but no more than there is for the US, China and all other exporters to the EU, who dont have the luxury of a trade deal (which includes all of the worlds top 10 economies). We would have tarrifs too... a kind of tax on imports. Perhaps encouraging people to buy British and buy local.

Edited 14 July, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[John B]

This kind of line is getting a tad annoying. With no deal, exports could be hampered. But to suggest there would be no exports at all is beyond ridiculous. With the lower value of the pound, our exports would already be cheaper than they were, even if 10% tarrifs were imposed. Average WTO tarrifs are 3-4%.

 

Granted there would be more paperwork and red tape but this would work both ways, but no more than there is for the US, China and all other exporters to the EU, who dont have the luxury of a trade deal (which includes all of the worlds top 10 economies). We would have tarrifs too... a kind of tax on imports. Perhaps encouraging people to buy British and buy local.

 

I dont think you understand to trade you need investment without access to the single market Foreign companies are unlikely to invest in the UK which is key to our future prosperity

 

Most Asian and North American Companies are here to trade with Europe.

 

We dont have many British Companies

 

I cannot see Toyota Nissan and Honda trading with Asia or the US as they have more efficient factories elsewhere

[Johnny Bognor]

I dont think you understand to trade you need investment without access to the single market Foreign companies are unlikely to invest in the UK which is key to our future prosperity

 

Most Asian and North American Companies are here to trade with Europe.

 

We dont have many British Companies

 

I cannot see Toyota Nissan and Honda trading with Asia or the US as they have more efficient factories elsewhere

 

 

I disagree. Boeing are now investing here, creating 2000 jobs. Others will too. Here's why...

 

 

1. Remember, that with the strength of the dollar against the pound, it makes the UK a cheaper place to invest.

 

2. We will soon have the lowest corporate tax rate of any major economy. Our rate was already scheduled to come down to 17pc, and that is now being accelerated to 15pc. That compares to 29pc in Germany and 33pc in France. The rate of capital gains tax for entrepreneurs is just 10pc, meaning that anyone who starts a company here can keep almost all of what they make. Despite what some people on the Left think, no one starts a business to make the government rich. They want to be rewarded for the stress involved. In the UK, they will be.

 

3. The UK represents 40% of all startups in Europe. We have lighter regulation, so it is simpler to set up a company here than anywhere else in Europe. According to the World Bank, the UK is already the 17th easiest country in the world in which to start a business. France is 32nd , Italy 50th and Germany is 107th – and that is before you get into the five years it takes to close one down. If we can get ourselves close to top-rated New Zealand we will be more attractive to European start-ups.

 

 

You see, it's not as simple as being in the EU equals investment and being outside doesn't....

 

Other factors include the fact that we are blessed with the English language and as a whole have a skilled, educated and flexible workforce. We are still an attractive investment. More attractive than many countries inside the EU.

 

For instance, would you setup an advanced R&D facility in the UK (where we have the skills and the environment to support it) or say Greece? Let's take France as another example. If you were a US company, would you invest in France where it is impossible to hire and fire, or would you invest in the UK with a more flexible labour market and similar labour laws, along with a shared langauge, without taking into account our attitude to start ups and the entrepreneurial spirit, which is streets ahead of France.

 

Our future prosperity will be better served by creating a knowledged base economy with entrepreneurial flair, where we become net exporters, because people around the world (and inside the EU) want to buy our products and services.

Edited 14 July, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[OldNick]

I disagree. Boeing are now investing here, creating 2000 jobs. Others will too. Here's why...

 

 

1. Remember, that with the strength of the dollar against the pound, it makes the UK a cheaper place to invest.

 

2. We will soon have the lowest corporate tax rate of any major economy. Our rate was already scheduled to come down to 17pc, and that is now being accelerated to 15pc. That compares to 29pc in Germany and 33pc in France. The rate of capital gains tax for entrepreneurs is just 10pc, meaning that anyone who starts a company here can keep almost all of what they make. Despite what some people on the Left think, no one starts a business to make the government rich. They want to be rewarded for the stress involved. In the UK, they will be.

 

3. The UK represents 40% of all startups in Europe. We have lighter regulation, so it is simpler to set up a company here than anywhere else in Europe. According to the World Bank, the UK is already the 17th easiest country in the world in which to start a business. France is 32nd , Italy 50th and Germany is 107th – and that is before you get into the five years it takes to close one down. If we can get ourselves close to top-rated New Zealand we will be more attractive to European start-ups.

 

 

You see, it's not as simple as being in the EU equals investment and being outside doesn't....

 

Other factors include the fact that we are blessed with the English language and as a whole have a skilled, educated and flexible workforce. We are still an attractive investment. More attractive than many countries inside the EU.

 

For instance, would you setup an advanced R&D facility in the UK (where we have the skills and the environment to support it) or say Greece? Let's take France as another example. If you were a US company, would you invest in France where it is impossible to hire and fire, or would you invest in the UK with a more flexible labour market and similar labour laws, along with a shared langauge, without taking into account our attitude to start ups and the entrepreneurial spirit, which is streets ahead of France.

 

Our future prosperity will be better served by creating a knowledged base economy with entrepreneurial flair, where we become net exporters, because people around the world (and inside the EU) want to buy our products and services.

thats all well and good but where are the workforce coming from as they will be all kicked out as far as the brexiters are concerned. We havent the British workers to fill all these new jobs

The waiting lists to see a consultantant or a hospital appointment is going to be get worse once the nasty immigrants have been kicked out.

I assume you expect to cherry pick which ones goes and which stays lol

[Johnny Bognor]

thats all well and good but where are the workforce coming from as they will be all kicked out as far as the brexiters are concerned. We havent the British workers to fill all these new jobs

 

The UK will absorb immigrants based on the needs of the country, as has always happened. Whether that be Irish Navvies to build our railways, or commonwealth people to rebuild the country post WW2. Immigrants will come, as they always have, based on their skill sets and what they bring to the party. My mum was an Irish immigrant who came here in the 1960's and spent most of her life working in the NHS. This happened before the EU, believe it or not. My father worked all over Europe, living in Madrid (1 year) and Paris (5 years) before the EU.

 

 

The waiting lists to see a consultantant or a hospital appointment is going to be get worse once the nasty immigrants have been kicked out.

I assume you expect to cherry pick which ones goes and which stays lol

 

Another remainer myth. The vast majority of immigrants working within the NHS are not from the EU.

 

 

What's sad is the continual remainer scaremongering. Many of the leftie remainers want the UK to fail. They want recession. They want people to suffer. Just so they can say "told you so". I would put a LOL, but it isn't very funny.

Edited 14 July, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Whitey Grandad]

I disagree. Boeing are now investing here, creating 2000 jobs. Others will too. Here's why...

 

 

1. Remember, that with the strength of the dollar against the pound, it makes the UK a cheaper place to invest.

 

2. We will soon have the lowest corporate tax rate of any major economy. Our rate was already scheduled to come down to 17pc, and that is now being accelerated to 15pc. That compares to 29pc in Germany and 33pc in France. The rate of capital gains tax for entrepreneurs is just 10pc, meaning that anyone who starts a company here can keep almost all of what they make. Despite what some people on the Left think, no one starts a business to make the government rich. They want to be rewarded for the stress involved. In the UK, they will be.

 

3. The UK represents 40% of all startups in Europe. We have lighter regulation, so it is simpler to set up a company here than anywhere else in Europe. According to the World Bank, the UK is already the 17th easiest country in the world in which to start a business. France is 32nd , Italy 50th and Germany is 107th – and that is before you get into the five years it takes to close one down. If we can get ourselves close to top-rated New Zealand we will be more attractive to European start-ups.

 

 

You see, it's not as simple as being in the EU equals investment and being outside doesn't....

 

Other factors include the fact that we are blessed with the English language and as a whole have a skilled, educated and flexible workforce. We are still an attractive investment. More attractive than many countries inside the EU.

 

For instance, would you setup an advanced R&D facility in the UK (where we have the skills and the environment to support it) or say Greece? Let's take France as another example. If you were a US company, would you invest in France where it is impossible to hire and fire, or would you invest in the UK with a more flexible labour market and similar labour laws, along with a shared langauge, without taking into account our attitude to start ups and the entrepreneurial spirit, which is streets ahead of France.

 

Our future prosperity will be better served by creating a knowledged base economy with entrepreneurial flair, where we become net exporters, because people around the world (and inside the EU) want to buy our products and services.

 

Boeing are investing nothing. The U.K. Taxpayer is paying for it. These 2000 jobs are the equivalent - or at the expense of - taking on more service personnel.

Edited 14 July, 2016 by Whitey Grandad

[Johnny Bognor]

Boeing are investing nothing. The U.K. Taxpayer is paying for it. These 2000 jobs are the equivalent - or at the expense of - taking on more service personnel.

 

But you agree that there is more to foreign investment, rather than just being in or being out of the EU?

[hutch]

Boeing are investing nothing. The U.K. Taxpayer is paying for it. These 2000 jobs are the equivalent - or at the expense of - taking on more service personnel.

Or the Scottish Taxpayer

[moonraker]

Boeing are investing nothing. The U.K. Taxpayer is paying for it. These 2000 jobs are the equivalent - or at the expense of - taking on more service personnel.

 

Correct every penny Boeing 'Invest' in the UK for the P-8 Poseidon programme will come from the British Taxpayer, a % of which will be profit and therefore end up in the US. If the slash and burn defence review of 2011 had not cancelled our indigenous, somewhat troubled, MPA programme 2000 jobs would have been protected and new ones created within a British company. Finally the lack of any credible MPA over the past 6 years has increased the security risk and meant we have gone cap in hand to various governments to ‘borrow’ MPA capability, for a maritime nation this is a national disgrace, and still there is a myth that security and defence are safe in Tories hands.

[hutch]

What's wrong with you? I said just a few posts back that I - along with CB Fry I believe - had predicted Leave would win. It was pretty obvious that the cacophony of lies and xenophobic distortions by the Brexit campaign would take its toll.

 

So what about an answer to my question? Internal market or restrictions on free movement?

 

Yes, you did. You also predicted that Remain would win

 

There will be plenty of voters who will think they don't want to get into the arcane legalities of the debate but will weigh up their vote based on a judgement of relative sanity among the lading advocates On that basis alone, the Yes vote wins by a mile.

 

There was always a high probability, even evidence, that either Remain or Leave would win. But you got it right this time.

[John B]

I disagree. Boeing are now investing here, creating 2000 jobs. Others will too. Here's why...

 

 

1. Remember, that with the strength of the dollar against the pound, it makes the UK a cheaper place to invest.

 

2. We will soon have the lowest corporate tax rate of any major economy. Our rate was already scheduled to come down to 17pc, and that is now being accelerated to 15pc. That compares to 29pc in Germany and 33pc in France. The rate of capital gains tax for entrepreneurs is just 10pc, meaning that anyone who starts a company here can keep almost all of what they make. Despite what some people on the Left think, no one starts a business to make the government rich. They want to be rewarded for the stress involved. In the UK, they will be.

 

3. The UK represents 40% of all startups in Europe. We have lighter regulation, so it is simpler to set up a company here than anywhere else in Europe. According to the World Bank, the UK is already the 17th easiest country in the world in which to start a business. France is 32nd , Italy 50th and Germany is 107th – and that is before you get into the five years it takes to close one down. If we can get ourselves close to top-rated New Zealand we will be more attractive to European start-ups.

 

 

You see, it's not as simple as being in the EU equals investment and being outside doesn't....

 

Other factors include the fact that we are blessed with the English language and as a whole have a skilled, educated and flexible workforce. We are still an attractive investment. More attractive than many countries inside the EU.

 

For instance, would you setup an advanced R&D facility in the UK (where we have the skills and the environment to support it) or say Greece? Let's take France as another example. If you were a US company, would you invest in France where it is impossible to hire and fire, or would you invest in the UK with a more flexible labour market and similar labour laws, along with a shared langauge, without taking into account our attitude to start ups and the entrepreneurial spirit, which is streets ahead of France.

 

Our future prosperity will be better served by creating a knowledged base economy with entrepreneurial flair, where we become net exporters, because people around the world (and inside the EU) want to buy our products and services.

 

It just seems ****ing stupid to leave the biggest single market in the world and start working out how to trade and get inward investment virtually from scratch.

 

Thousands of people are going to lose out during the process the country is a laughing stock world wide and half the country think the other half of the country which includes you are stupid and we still have no idea what OUT really means.

 

There is of course an upside Osborne and Cameron who have tanked the economy are out Austerity is dead the deficit and debt are rising but will Hammond be bold by reducing VAT and invest in infrastructure projects like Osborne should have done only time will tell

[buctootim]

But you agree that there is more to foreign investment, rather than just being in or being out of the EU?

 

Of course there is. Cheap skilled labour is a major factor, and the ability to ship in skills you cant find locally. Oh. Also critically important is unfettered access to the largest market for goods. Oh. Issues like the price of postage, availability of bottled water and a government funded rent subsidy for the first year dont really weigh quite so much.

Edited 14 July, 2016 by buctootim

[notnowcato]

Correct every penny Boeing 'Invest' in the UK for the P-8 Poseidon programme will come from the British Taxpayer, a % of which will be profit and therefore end up in the US. If the slash and burn defence review of 2011 had not cancelled our indigenous, somewhat troubled, MPA programme 2000 jobs would have been protected and new ones created within a British company. Finally the lack of any credible MPA over the past 6 years has increased the security risk and meant we have gone cap in hand to various governments to ‘borrow’ MPA capability, for a maritime nation this is a national disgrace, and still there is a myth that security and defence are safe in Tories hands.

 

Indeed, the British Taxpayer should be propping up foreign banks not investing in it's own country and people.

[notnowcato]

It just seems ****ing stupid to leave the biggest single market in the world and start working out how to trade and get inward investment virtually from scratch.

 

Thousands of people are going to lose out during the process the country is a laughing stock world wide and half the country think the other half of the country which includes you are stupid and we still have no idea what OUT really means.

 

There is of course an upside Osborne and Cameron who have tanked the economy are out Austerity is dead the deficit and debt are rising but will Hammond be bold by reducing VAT and invest in infrastructure projects like Osborne should have done only time will tell

 

Sweet jesus, you'd think we'd never traded before...

[Whitey Grandad]

But you agree that there is more to foreign investment, rather than just being in or being out of the EU?

 

Yes I agree, but this venture from Boeing does not count as foreign investment. In effect we've contracted out an important part of our defence structure to a foreign company who will then employ mainly UK personnel. This is better than having them seting up a repair and maintenance base in north Germany, for example, but let's not kid ourselves that this is not paid for by the UK.

 

Also let us not forget that foreign investors in general will want to get their money back over the long term.

[Whitey Grandad]

Sweet jesus, you'd think we'd never traded before...

 

From the tone of your reply it would appear that you never have. There are costs and delays associated with not being in the Single Market that are major disincentives to bothe supplier and customer.

[notnowcato]

From the tone of your reply it would appear that you never have. There are costs and delays associated with not being in the Single Market that are major disincentives to bothe supplier and customer.

 

The tone was to reflect the over egged post of "start working out how to trade and get inward investment virtually from scratch".

 

I'm not as naive as maybe you expect, no doubt we've some sizeable obstacles in our way. Signs are good though, Siemens and BMW are already softening their view on Brexit, May has constructed a decent cabinet, the FTSE250 is recovering well.

 

It's sunny outside.

[Whitey Grandad]

The tone was to reflect the over egged post of "start working out how to trade and get inward investment virtually from scratch".

 

I'm not as naive as maybe you expect, no doubt we've some sizeable obstacles in our way. Signs are good though, Siemens and BMW are already softening their view on Brexit, May has constructed a decent cabinet, the FTSE250 is recovering well.

 

It's sunny outside.

 

I didn't mean to be offensive or critical. So let me ask you your views on these two questions - and anybody else who feels up to it.

 

Would being outside the Single Market make it...

 

a) Easier to trade with the EU

b) More difficult to trade with the EU

C) About the same

 

And regarding the rest of the world...

 

a) Easier to trade with them

b) More difficult to trade with them

C) About the same