Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Lord Duckhunter]

Can you cry-babies just get your heads round the result, please.

 

We're leaving the EU. It was a democratic vote. Maybe the lack of democracy in the EU appeals to you, but we're coming out.

 

Pathetic isn't it? They're all for democracy provided they agree with the result .

[Guided Missile]

More good news here.

 

President Obama’s top trade envoy has suggested a way for the US and Britain to strike a trade deal that will not push Britain to “the back of the queue”.

 

Michael Froman said that Britain could apply to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership, an agreement between the United States and 11 other countries. He appeared to contradict Mr Obama, who warned in April that Britain would find it difficult to negotiate trade deals with the US after a vote to leave the EU.

 

 

The president signed the TPP agreement in New Zealand in February but it is still awaiting approval by the US Congress. The pact includes Australia, Japan, Canada and Mexico and covers 40 per cent of global economic output. It creates common labour and environmental standards and intellectual-property protections. Should Britain become a signatory, it would be the third largest economy to participate.

 

 

Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, has praised the deal, calling it a “potentially important, liberalising” step forward.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Pathetic isn't it? They're all for democracy provided they agree with the result .

 

You don't feel that part of the democratic process is that EVERYONE gets to freely express their opinion?

[Wes Tender]

You don't feel that part of the democratic process is that EVERYONE gets to freely express their opinion?

 

Everybody who wished to express an opinion had the opportunity to do so freely a couple of weeks ago.

[Whitey Grandad]

Everybody who wished to express an opinion had the opportunity to do so freely a couple of weeks ago.

 

They had to be registered first and there were a number of reasons why many couldn't. 3.5 million under 35s were not registered for various reasons. One was the timing of the vote where students when formerly would have been registered by their educational institutions were no longer allowed to do so. It's easy for a retired pensioner who's been on the electoral register for generations and who has had all day to get to their polling station to complain about youngsters who have jobs and lives to lead and who could be all over the place but whatever the reasons it cannot be good for democracy if people have hurdles to jump before they can vote.

 

This from before the vote:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/21/young-voters-might-hold-key-to-brexit-but-will-they-use-it.html

[Batman]

They had to be registered first and there were a number of reasons why many couldn't. 3.5 million under 35s were not registered for various reasons. One was the timing of the vote where students when formerly would have been registered by their educational institutions were no longer allowed to do so. It's easy for a retired pensioner who's been on the electoral register for generations and who has had all day to get to their polling station to complain about youngsters who have jobs and lives to lead and who could be all over the place but whatever the reasons it cannot be good for democracy if people have hurdles to jump before they can vote.

 

This from before the vote:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/21/young-voters-might-hold-key-to-brexit-but-will-they-use-it.html

 

LOL.

they could have registered for a postal vote.

not hard to register online what so ever

 

they even got another 48 hours to register when the the referendum was in full flow. Still not too bothered though

 

the hurdles people have to jump to vote are about 6 inches high

Edited 9 July, 2016 by Batman

[aintforever]

They had to be registered first and there were a number of reasons why many couldn't. 3.5 million under 35s were not registered for various reasons. One was the timing of the vote where students when formerly would have been registered by their educational institutions were no longer allowed to do so. It's easy for a retired pensioner who's been on the electoral register for generations and who has had all day to get to their polling station to complain about youngsters who have jobs and lives to lead and who could be all over the place but whatever the reasons it cannot be good for democracy if people have hurdles to jump before they can vote.

 

This from before the vote:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/21/young-voters-might-hold-key-to-brexit-but-will-they-use-it.html

 

Choosing not to vote IS having a say. You are saying you don't care either way.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Everybody who wished to express an opinion had the opportunity to do so freely a couple of weeks ago.

 

To the best of my knowledge a British citizen's basic human right to freedom of thought does not come with a time limit attached.

 

Are the many millions of your fellow citizens who just don't agree with, or othrwise cannot afford, the decision to leave the EU all supposed to suppress their opinion on that subject just because the likes of you don't like it? If so, then the expression 'dream on' does comes to mind ...

[Lord Duckhunter]

People are perfectly within their rights to keep campaigning , to keep whinging & crying and to keep insulting the people who were on the winning side . Just as spotty faced teenagers are within their rights to cry, and bore their mates when their true love dumps them . Personally I hope they keep it up , seeing a load of losers giving up their weekend marching against democracy and reading the whingers on here, makes our victory even sweeter Wes.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

People are perfectly within their rights to keep campaigning , to keep whinging & crying and to keep insulting the people who were on the winning side . Just as spotty faced teenagers are within their rights to cry, and bore their mates when their true love dumps them . Personally I hope they keep it up , seeing a load of losers giving up their weekend marching against democracy and reading the whingers on here, makes our victory even sweeter Wes.

 

So you continual moaning about the other half of the British population who are not happy with the referendum result is itself somehow different from "whinging" is it? As for your hoping that this division of opinion within this country will not go away, something tells me that you can rest assured this argument is here for a generation - or more.

[derry]

I know it was only one university's halls of residence but it was probably repeated across the country, arranging postal votes and not bothering and polling cards not used just waiting to be thrown out, is hardly indicative of a generation deprived of it's vote. Just couldn't care less more like.

[shurlock]

People are perfectly within their rights to keep campaigning , to keep whinging & crying and to keep insulting the people who were on the winning side . Just as spotty faced teenagers are within their rights to cry, and bore their mates when their true love dumps them . Personally I hope they keep it up , seeing a load of losers giving up their weekend marching against democracy and reading the whingers on here, makes our victory even sweeter Wes.

 

 

Still playing the victim, pal?

Edited 9 July, 2016 by shurlock

[derry]

So you continual moaning about the other half of the British population who are not happy with the referendum result is itself somehow different from "whinging" is it? As for your hoping that this division of opinion within this country will not go away, something tells me that you can rest assured this argument is here for a generation - or more.

 

Only if the country falls on it's arse and the EU becomes Shangri La. I see the IMF are issuing grave warnings regarding the EU, didn't take them long.

[badgerx16]

I wonder if by the time we actually leave, likely to be at least 2 and a half years, the gap between leave and remain opinion will naturally have closed due to the current 15 to 17 year olds joining the electoral roll.

[Wes Tender]

To the best of my knowledge a British citizen's basic human right to freedom of thought does not come with a time limit attached.

 

Are the many millions of your fellow citizens who just don't agree with, or othrwise cannot afford, the decision to leave the EU all supposed to suppress their opinion on that subject just because the likes of you don't like it? If so, then the expression 'dream on' does comes to mind ...

 

No, you're quite right, there is no time limit on a British citizens basic human right to freedom of thought. When you are applying that position to the matter of our membership of the sclerotic European project, I have wanted to get out of it since we signed the Maastricht Treaty 24 years ago.

[shurlock]

No, you're quite right, there is no time limit on a British citizens basic human right to freedom of thought. When you are applying that position to the matter of our membership of the sclerotic European project, I have wanted to get out of it since we signed the Maastricht Treaty 24 years ago.

 

That's right, Les. I knew you'd be a supporter of freedom from thought.

[OldNick]

...

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

No, you're quite right, there is no time limit on a British citizens basic human right to freedom of thought. When you are applying that position to the matter of our membership of the sclerotic European project, I have wanted to get out of it since we signed the Maastricht Treaty 24 years ago.

 

It seems to me that this referendum has left a scar on the 'boby politic' of this nation that might take as long to heal as you have been arguing that we should leave. The notion that half a nation, people who fundamentaly disagree with this decision, are somehow going to forget about the matter is naive frankly.

[Whitey Grandad]

I know it was only one university's halls of residence but it was probably repeated across the country, arranging postal votes and not bothering and polling cards not used just waiting to be thrown out, is hardly indicative of a generation deprived of it's vote. Just couldn't care less more like.

 

It was not universal. It is now down to the individual to register and cannot be done by a hall of residence so I don't know which institution you are referring to. If you are a student then registration can be achieved but I do wonder whether the turn out amongst the older generation would have been as high if everybody had to go out of their way every time they wanted to vote. Whatever you may think it cannot be good for democratic engagement if so many are disenfranchised, even if they would vote Labour.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/31/electoral-register-loses-estimated-800000-people-since-changes-to-system

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/conservative-changes-to-voter-registration-leave-800000-off-election-rolls-a6845796.html

 

"As you will know, IER prevents universities from block registering all their students in halls of residence, but measures should be taken to ensure that it is as easy as possible for individual students to register.”

[derry]

It was not universal. It is now down to the individual to register and cannot be done by a hall of residence so I don't know which institution you are referring to. If you are a student then registration can be achieved but I do wonder whether the turn out amongst the older generation would have been as high if everybody had to go out of their way every time they wanted to vote. Whatever you may think it cannot be good for democratic engagement if so many are disenfranchised, even if they would vote Labour.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/31/electoral-register-loses-estimated-800000-people-since-changes-to-system

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/conservative-changes-to-voter-registration-leave-800000-off-election-rolls-a6845796.html

 

"As you will know, IER prevents universities from block registering all their students in halls of residence, but measures should be taken to ensure that it is as easy as possible for individual students to register.”

 

This refers to cleaning out after the students departed and left an enormous amount of polling cards or postal votes never returned. Obviously registered but didn't follow through.

[derry]

It seems to me that this referendum has left a scar on the 'boby politic' of this nation that might take as long to heal as you have been arguing that we should leave. The notion that half a nation, people who fundamentaly disagree with this decision, are somehow going to forget about the matter is naive frankly.

 

It's 48% of those that voted but about 35% of registered voters not half the nation. It's also probably a very small number that are whingeing. A dozen people keeping this thread going with about half a dozen remainers on every day. Most people have voted and accept the result.

[derry]

I wonder if by the time we actually leave, likely to be at least 2 and a half years, the gap between leave and remain opinion will naturally have closed due to the current 15 to 17 year olds joining the electoral roll.

 

More likely swell the ranks of the couldn't give a toss.

[Wes Tender]

That's right, Les. I knew you'd be a supporter of freedom from thought.

 

Please do concentrate and read it correctly. Freedom of thought.

[Whitey Grandad]

This refers to cleaning out after the students departed and left an enormous amount of polling cards or postal votes never returned. Obviously registered but didn't follow through.

 

Thanks. Polling cards mean nothing of course but postal votes might be significant, unless these were potential applications for postal votes. Whatever, it's not the same situation as living in the same bungalow for forty years.

[Whitey Grandad]

It's 48% of those that voted but about 35% of registered voters not half the nation. It's also probably a very small number that are whingeing. A dozen people keeping this thread going with about half a dozen remainers on every day. Most people have voted and accept the result.

 

No, it's not just us. There are still discussions going on in the media and its apparent that there is a lot of real anger around. Over 4 million protest signups to that infamous government petition for example.

 

The 35% figure is not relevant since nothing is known about the predilections of those who couldn't or didn't get to vote.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Over 4 million protest signups to that infamous government petition for example.

.

 

Lol, that many ? 4 million wow .

 

What was the figure leave got in the actual vote, more than that ???

 

Of course the important figure is 1 million , as in the more than 1 million votes the winning side got .

[van Hanegem]

Hopefully the UK won't leave too soon as there is a far bigger problem than Brexit around the corner for the EU: Italian banks and therefore PM Renzi is in trouble. Renzi asked the EU to be flexible so he can help the banks with a debt of 360 billion euro's. When he doesn't help them they will go broke and amongst the shareholders are many citizens who trusted these banks with their pension plans, ergo, they lose their pension and Renzi will be forced to step down. Knowing that also in Italy the anti EU parties are becoming bigger and bigger so the EU will fear another exit of one of the key members. But being flexible with the new rules is not an option for the Dutch and Germans, breaking these rules after the crisis we had when taxpayers had to save a lot of banks will certainly lead to commotion in Northern Europe. On the other hand, not helping the Italian banks could cause also a problem for French banks and then the sh*t really hits the fan... As we've learned from history, the EU is very good in breaking it's own rules so one way or another they're going to fix this problem and it isn't difficult to figure out who is going to pay. Again... There are already documents leaking out from German and French officials from the EU in which is stated that the EU should be allowed to tax the European citizens in order to help the countries who are in need (see page 9 of this document http://static.presspublica.pl/red/rp/pdf/DokumentUE.pdf to read about the 'fiscal capacity' before 2018 they long for). So, as a Dutchman I hope you will stay in the EU a little longer than expected in order to share the burden. After all, there are millions of you who like to stay in the EU right?

 

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21701756-italys-teetering-banks-will-be-europes-next-crisis-italian-job

Edited 10 July, 2016 by van Hanegem

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It's 48% of those that voted but about 35% of registered voters not half the nation. It's also probably a very small number that are whingeing. A dozen people keeping this thread going with about half a dozen remainers on every day. Most people have voted and accept the result.

 

If you really think that this issue has not divided the country more or less 'down the middle' then I can only say that you seem entirly out of touch with the nation you live in. And all this long before the real consequences of Bretix have even struck home.

 

You ain't seen nothing yet.

[OldNick]

No, it's not just us. There are still discussions going on in the media and its apparent that there is a lot of real anger around. Over 4 million protest signups to that infamous government petition for example.

 

The 35% figure is not relevant since nothing is known about the predilections of those who couldn't or didn't get to vote.

I voted remain and am still sore at the result but we should move on. It is getting sad that we are looking for ways around the result.

The way the Italian banks and others connected to them are struggling perhaps we shoud press article 50 now and cut ourselves adrift.

I saw an article where the EU have overspent billions and we have to contribute to make the shortfall, if the banks fail and we are not out by thenwe will still have to pick up some of that bill.It will be galling to leave , pay for the bailout and not have the benefits after euroe recovers

[Batman]

http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article156924408/Deutsche-Bank-Chefoekonom-fordert-150-Milliarden.html

[SW5 SAINT]

People are perfectly within their rights to keep campaigning , to keep whinging & crying and to keep insulting the people who were on the winning side . Just as spotty faced teenagers are within their rights to cry, and bore their mates when their true love dumps them . Personally I hope they keep it up , seeing a load of losers giving up their weekend marching against democracy and reading the whingers on here, makes our victory even sweeter Wes.

 

Agree with this. Are we meant to believe that if the result had gone the other way the brexiteers would have shut up. Farage was preparing, when he thought the result had gone against him to do just that. Indeed he was saying the battle had only just started.

[Guided Missile]

Further confirmation of the opening post, here.

 

Chancellor George Osborne has vowed to create a "more outward-looking, global-facing Britain" following the UK vote to leave the European Union. Even closer economic ties between the UK and US are in the "overwhelming interest of both countries", he has written in the Wall Street Journal. Although the UK is leaving the EU, "we are not quitting the world", he said. He is due to travel to New York, Singapore and China for talks with major investors in the coming weeks.

The UK is the largest trading partner in Europe for the United States, and in turn the US is the largest single destination for UK exports. UK exports to the US totalled £88bn in 2014 - about 17% of total UK exports - and last year the UK was the US's sixth largest trading partner.

 

Just to confirm, George Osborne was a remainer....

[badgerx16]

Further confirmation of the opening post, here.

 

 

 

Just to confirm, George Osborne was a remainer....

George Osborne is desperately repositioning himself in the hope that he might still have a political future.

[Guided Missile]

George Osborne is desperately repositioning himself in the hope that he might still have a political future.

The government are reflecting the decision of the electorate.

[Johnny Bognor]

Boeing and the UK government have announced a deal involving the creation of 2,000 jobs and an aircraft contract.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

If you really think that this issue has not divided the country more or less 'down the middle' then I can only say that you seem entirly out of touch with the nation you live in. And all this long before the real consequences of Bretix have even struck home.

 

You ain't seen nothing yet.

 

I would argue that the country is not as split down the middle as you would think on this issue. Project fear persuaded many people to vote remain whose natural instincts would have been to vote out. My heart says out and my head says in was regularly quoted to me. If 10% fell into that camp then your split down the middle is not as clear cut as you would think.

 

Incidentally I voted out because the polls and the bookmakers made it clear that we would remain in and I did not want to endorse the EU. I went through the regretting it phase but now see it as a very positive thing. We can now negotiate from a position of strength and hopefully the EU can address its issues. Nothing reflects those better than Claude Van Juncker. In fact watching him gave me feel better about having voted out.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Boeing and the UK government have announced a deal involving the creation of 2,000 jobs and an aircraft contract.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

 

This aircraft order for the RAF was first announced as part of the 2015 Strategic Defence and Securty Review and therefore has nothing to do with Bretix.

[Winnersaint]

People are perfectly within their rights to keep campaigning , to keep whinging & crying and to keep insulting the people who were on the winning side . Just as spotty faced teenagers are within their rights to cry, and bore their mates when their true love dumps them . Personally I hope they keep it up , seeing a load of losers giving up their weekend marching against democracy and reading the whingers on here, makes our victory even sweeter Wes.

 

Democracy has to be seen to be upheld, anything else would be plain wrong. In a society which allows free speech people are entitled to have an opposing view though without being subjected to the sort of childish ridicule and sneering so prevalent amongst some on here.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Leadsom quitting the race for PM at noon, so it'll be Theresa May leading the UK into Brexit.

[Whitey Grandad]

Boeing and the UK government have announced a deal involving the creation of 2,000 jobs and an aircraft contract.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

 

And all paid for by the British taxpayer.

[Whitey Grandad]

Leadsom quitting the race for PM at noon, so it'll be Theresa May leading the UK into Brexit.

 

She'll have to do. Any idea what form of Brexit? Anybody?

[Johnny Bognor]

This aircraft order for the RAF was first announced as part of the 2015 Strategic Defence and Securty Review and therefore has nothing to do with Bretix.

 

The aircraft deal is old news, but this bit isn't...

 

"The US plane maker intends to build a new £100 million facility for the P-8A Poseidon military aircraft at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray. It will make the UK its European base for training, maintenance, repair and overhaul across its defence fixed-wing and rotary platforms. Boeing has doubled its UK workforce over the past five years to more than 2,000 people. The plans announced at the Farnborough International Airshow in Hampshire are expected to result in a further 2,000 jobs."

 

Why are remainers like you only looking for bad news and almost want the UK to fail??

 

.... whatever the result of the referendum, win or lose, I want the UK to prosper...

[Whitey Grandad]

The aircraft deal is old news, but this bit isn't...

 

"The US plane maker intends to build a new £100 million facility for the P-8A Poseidon military aircraft at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray. It will make the UK its European base for training, maintenance, repair and overhaul across its defence fixed-wing and rotary platforms. Boeing has doubled its UK workforce over the past five years to more than 2,000 people. The plans announced at the Farnborough International Airshow in Hampshire are expected to result in a further 2,000 jobs."

 

Why are remainers like you only looking for bad news and almost want the UK to fail??

 

.... whatever the result of the referendum, win or lose, I want the UK to prosper...

 

This is not the same as some major industrial company setting up a new facility in the UK because the only reason it will be here is because it will be paid for by the defence budget. If you were talking about some major computer centre or suchlike then I would agree with you.

 

 

A long way to go but we should expect more of this:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/10/lush-cosmetics-moves-to-germany-because-of-brexit-5998494/

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I would argue that the country is not as split down the middle as you would think on this issue. Project fear persuaded many people to vote remain whose natural instincts would have been to vote out. My heart says out and my head says in was regularly quoted to me. If 10% fell into that camp then your split down the middle is not as clear cut as you would think.

 

Incidentally I voted out because the polls and the bookmakers made it clear that we would remain in and I did not want to endorse the EU. I went through the regretting it phase but now see it as a very positive thing. We can now negotiate from a position of strength and hopefully the EU can address its issues. Nothing reflects those better than Claude Van Juncker. In fact watching him gave me feel better about having voted out.

 

'Project Fear' was not restricted to just one side of the argument was it?

 

I can only restate my perception of the situation our nation finds itself in today. Mirroring the referendum result itself my family, my workplace, my friends and acquaintances are all (as far as I can tell) pretty much 'split down the middle' on this the great issue of our age. Perhaps I exist in some utterly atypical enviroment that is divorced from the reality that you and others live in - that would certainly not be first time on here this has been put to me on here - but that is nevertheless my personal preception of the state of the nation at this time based on my own experience.

 

How do you think the British people will react if we ultimately have to agree to some kind of unsatifactory 'fudge' in which EU immigration continues much as it does today in order that the UK might retain an acceptable level of Single Market access? What about the predicted recession that lays ahead or how your fellow 'Leave' voters will feel when that promised £350m a week never reaches the NHS?

 

The storm isn't over - indeed you ain't seen nothing yet.

Edited 11 July, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The aircraft deal is old news, but this bit isn't...

 

"The US plane maker intends to build a new £100 million facility for the P-8A Poseidon military aircraft at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray. It will make the UK its European base for training, maintenance, repair and overhaul across its defence fixed-wing and rotary platforms. Boeing has doubled its UK workforce over the past five years to more than 2,000 people. The plans announced at the Farnborough International Airshow in Hampshire are expected to result in a further 2,000 jobs."

 

Why are remainers like you only looking for bad news and almost want the UK to fail??

 

.... whatever the result of the referendum, win or lose, I want the UK to prosper...

 

My post is merly a response based on the actual facts of the matter - which anyone can easily confirm for themselves should they doubt it.

[Verbal]

And she's gone.

 

Pretty impressive work by the British establishment. Brexiters have now lost all their leading candidates. It's hard to disagree with the Guardian's judgement:

 

For the ultra-Eurosceptic leave Tories, this has been a disaster. A majority of Tory members backed leave; three of the five original candidates were Brexiters, but their champion has now backed out after just three days on the final shortlist.

[buctootim]

And she's gone.

 

Pretty impressive work by the British establishment. Brexiters have now lost all their leading candidates. It's hard to disagree with the Guardian's judgement:

 

I love the fact that all four of the most prominent Brexiteers spent months telling us to be brave and vote for a strong independent Britain - but as soon as the going got a little tough they all fell apart like rain soaked copies of the Express. Thanks Boris, Farage, Gove and Leadsom its been, um, real.

[Batman]

I love the fact that all four of the most prominent Brexiteers spent months telling us to be brave and vote for a strong independent Britain - but as soon as the going got a little tough they all fell apart like rain soaked copies of the Express. Thanks Boris, Farage, Gove and Leadsom its been, um, real.

 

we'll still leave though

[buctootim]

we'll still leave though

 

We'll be Norway. Congrats.

[Batman]

We'll be Norway. Congrats.

 

your predictions are often wrong on these issues, so will pass on hoicking this nugget in