Brexit - Post Match Reaction

derry · 7 July, 2016

I find it very difficult replying to your post because lets face it you are not very reasonable and have little idea of economic facts where do you get the information from as it is plainly wrong you just have generalisations with nothing to back them up

I am not sure you can have an opinion on Economics without stating relevant verifiable information but we seem to be in an era of somebody‘s gut feeling being the truth based on no facts this hardly shows they know what they are talking about

The Eurozone is growing after its problems with Greece and the Global Banking crash

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth

The last quarter better than the UK

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/27/uk-gdp-growth-slows-to-04-amid-eu-referendum-uncertainty

Whilst Brazil is in recession

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/gdp-growth-annual

EUROZONE better than Canada

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth

A lot better than Russia and Japan

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp-growth

But not as good as Australia

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-growth

To leave the biggest market in the world with no credible plan with regard to trade investment and taxation is economic madness which is now obvious as the £ falls the FTSE250 falls UK GDP falls and investment funds are frozen as investors want to get out of sterling some times buying long term bonds at negative interest as they are very concerned about the long term future of the UK economy.

Why are the vast majority of Economic Organisations Economists Leaders of Countries Business Leaders and Trade Union Leaders say leaving the EU is a terrible decision with so many negative consequences

And if it was a good idea why are all the UK Political Parties not shouting it from the rooftops with great plans on how well the country will do outside the EU.

The Treasury obviously has made no plans for BREXIT because it is such a stupid idea economically.

Of course the economy will grow in the future but there will be serious problems along the way as most of the country will see their standard of living fall but never mind you Duck Hunter and Derry are happy and sod the rest of us.

Maybe I've got it wrong. I thought we had a referendum which your lot lost by 1.5m votes. You few on here that seemingly think they are the experts with those that want out misguided fools, whinge on endlessly dredging up statistics that apart from you nobody is really interested in. I voted out, Leave won, as long as the politicians carry out the will of the electorate, which they will as they don't have the courage to face the consequences, and we depart the EU, the UK will go it's own way and thrive. Any other result and the three mainstream parties are finished and we will come out anyway.

Verbal · 7 July, 2016

I voted out, Leave won, as long as the politicians carry out the will of the electorate, which they will as they don't have the courage to face the consequences, and we depart the EU, the UK will go it's own way and thrive. Any other result and the three mainstream parties are finished and we will come out anyway.

Well what a stirring speech. Here's a song that perfectly encapsulates your uplifting sentiment. Great title too.

Wes Tender · 7 July, 2016

The EU is not stagnating - it has lower growth than developing countries because, erm, they are developing and their lower wage costs mean investment flows to them. When they reach the same level of development as the EU or US their growth will slow too. The only way to increase growth here would be to cut wages to developing world levels, which some on the right of the Tory party and UKIP would be happy to see. The fact you believe simply leaving will increase growth with no credible idea of why how or why that will happen leads us on to the point below.

You really have no idea what you are talking about on almost every subject. You appear to read little and what you do read is not objective fact but opinion from sources like the Express. Posters like Duckhunter have views mostly diametrically opposite to mine - but you can tell he has read critically and simply come to different conclusions. You - its just a vast cave of ignorance and an unwillingness to change your mind when faced with reality.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/02/taking-europe-s-pulse

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21627620-deflation-euro-zone-all-too-close-and-extremely-dangerous-worlds-biggest-economic

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/business/international/eurozone-economy-q1.html?_r=0

https://www.socialeurope.eu/2016/02/eu-stagnation-continues-deja-vu-all-over-again/

Do you rank these sources alongside the Express and Mail?

I also read the youth unemployment figures for member states like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc and I conclude that if the economic prospects afforded by membership of the EU were so overwhelming, why are the youth unemployment rates so abysmally high in those countries?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276424/youth-unemployment-rate-in-the-eu-and-euro-area/

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

Maybe I've got it wrong. I thought we had a referendum which your lot lost by 1.5m votes. You few on here that seemingly think they are the experts with those that want out misguided fools, whinge on endlessly dredging up statistics that apart from you nobody is really interested in. I voted out, Leave won, as long as the politicians carry out the will of the electorate, which they will as they don't have the courage to face the consequences, and we depart the EU, the UK will go it's own way and thrive. Any other result and the three mainstream parties are finished and we will come out anyway.

You do have it wrong. Nobody won or lost, everybody lost. Real democracy would give a result that almost everybody could live with even if they didn't like the result of the vote, because they knew there would be another opportunity to have a say some time within the next few years. This vote was unique in that those who voted to leave were voting for a negative. Normally in a public vote you would be asked what you want and not what you don't want. Now we know that a (modest) majority said that they didn't want the EU but nobody has said what they do want and I suspect that those who voted to leave did so for a wide variety of reasons, too much immigration, vague notions of sovereignty, don't like being poor and so on. This total lack of any idea as to what kind of future we might have outside the EU is eveidenced by the headlong desertions of those who led the campaign to Leave.

Where do you get the idea that the UK will 'will go it's own way and thrive'? I'm willing to bet that you won't be doing any of the immense work and investment that this would need without any guarantee of success.

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

I also read the youth unemployment figures for member states like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc and I conclude that if the economic prospects afforded by membership of the EU were so overwhelming, why are the youth unemployment rates so abysmally high in those countries?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276424/youth-unemployment-rate-in-the-eu-and-euro-area/

What do those countries have to do with Britain?

derry · 7 July, 2016

You do have it wrong. Nobody won or lost, everybody lost. Real democracy would give a result that almost everybody could live with even if they didn't like the result of the vote, because they knew there would be another opportunity to have a say some time within the next few years. This vote was unique in that those who voted to leave were voting for a negative. Normally in a public vote you would be asked what you want and not what you don't want. Now we know that a (modest) majority said that they didn't want the EU but nobody has said what they do want and I suspect that those who voted to leave did so for a wide variety of reasons, too much immigration, vague notions of sovereignty, don't like being poor and so on. This total lack of any idea as to what kind of future we might have outside the EU is eveidenced by the headlong desertions of those who led the campaign to Leave.

Where do you get the idea that the UK will 'will go it's own way and thrive'? I'm willing to bet that you won't be doing any of the immense work and investment that this would need without any guarantee of success.

There was a referendum before which you along with others on here banking on a remain result neither questioned the referendum or it's outcome. You completely misjudged two things firstly that more people would vote to leave than remain and the number eligible to vote who didn't give a stuff either way. The Labour and Conservative parties have formed governments with far fewer votes than voted to leave and nobody complained. It is pure conjecture and mostly fabrication that large numbers of leave voters have changed their minds. The referendum was a one subject question and got it's answer. We are coming out of the EU and good riddance.

buctootim · 7 July, 2016

We are coming out of the EU and good riddance.

You're going to be so disappointed

derry · 7 July, 2016

You're going to be so disappointed

I won't be disappointed, but 17.5m will get even at the next general election. Most of the existing MPs will either be deselected or will be voted out. The Labour and Conservative parties will be decimated. I'd pretty much settle for that, then we'll come out.

buctootim · 7 July, 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/02/taking-europe-s-pulse
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21627620-deflation-euro-zone-all-too-close-and-extremely-dangerous-worlds-biggest-economic
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/business/international/eurozone-economy-q1.html?_r=0
https://www.socialeurope.eu/2016/02/eu-stagnation-continues-deja-vu-all-over-again/

Do you rank these sources alongside the Express and Mail?

I also read the youth unemployment figures for member states like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc and I conclude that if the economic prospects afforded by membership of the EU were so overwhelming, why are the youth unemployment rates so abysmally high in those countries?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276424/youth-unemployment-rate-in-the-eu-and-euro-area/

You posted up some credible links, well done. And? You need to do more than point out growth in Europe has been sluggish since 2007. We know. Its been sluggish across pretty much the whole developed world. Britain's real GDP per head is still lower than in 2007. Blaming low growth in developed countries on the EU is facile in the extreme. Is it to blame for low growth in Canada, the US and Japan too?

https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&idim=country:CAN:USA:AUS&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_pp_kd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:CAN:USA:ITA:GBR:DEU:FRA:JPN:NLD&ifdim=region&tstart=1183762800000&tend=1404687600000&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

Edited 7 July, 2016 by buctootim

OldNick · 7 July, 2016

There was a referendum before which you along with others on here banking on a remain result neither questioned the referendum or it's outcome. You completely misjudged two things firstly that more people would vote to leave than remain and the number eligible to vote who didn't give a stuff either way. The Labour and Conservative parties have formed governments with far fewer votes than voted to leave and nobody complained. It is pure conjecture and mostly fabrication that large numbers of leave voters have changed their minds. The referendum was a one subject question and got it's answer. We are coming out of the EU and good riddance.

I do find how the leaves are showing great confidence that our future is going to be bright encouraging.

I would abhor it if we went back on the referendum and that would be a national disgrace to even contemplate it. I'm not sure how the other counties in the EU would take it either, as we have cost their economies fortunes due to the uncertainty we have caused.

If you are on an index linked pension or have assets based in dollars or export to the USA, I suggest you can sit and enjoy the ride but sadly the majority of business and the people of the UK are likely to have a grim 5 years.

If you had a business that was doing well and somebody came to you and said that you should cut away 40% of your business ( it was a difficult customer but there to stay) and look to markets elsewhere where you may find new business although not as wealthy a customer, at the same time potentially losing a major part of your core business to your rivals,you would laugh at them.

I think that is what we have done. I will be so delighted if my concerns prove to be unfounded

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

There was a referendum before which you along with others on here banking on a remain result neither questioned the referendum or it's outcome.

What? We have had Farage and all the UKIPpers going on about nothing else for the last 40 years.Expect more of the same from the Remainers

You completely misjudged two things firstly that more people would vote to leave than remain and the number eligible to vote who didn't give a stuff either way. The Labour and Conservative parties have formed governments with far fewer votes than voted to leave and nobody complained.

That's the whole point. In a General Election there is going to be another vote coming along in a few years. Additionally, a close vote leads to a more representative government in that those who did not vote for the government still get representation in Parliament.

It is pure conjecture and mostly fabrication that large numbers of leave voters have changed their minds.

Changed their minds? They didn't have a clue what they were voting for in the first place (you excepted).

The referendum was a one subject question and got it's answer. We are coming out of the EU and good riddance.

Batman · 7 July, 2016

So, he was wrong then and you are wrong now

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

So, he was wrong then and you are wrong now

If he was wrong about that what else was he wrong about?

I am certainly not wrong about this being unfinished business.

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

I am certainly not wrong about this being unfinished business.

You are. We will be coming out . The only debate now is whether we leave or remain in the single market . But , we are coming out of the EU and I suggest you get your head round it .

derry · 7 July, 2016

At the last two Conservative leadership contests the membership rejected the MP's choice. this time they have even more reason to do the same. Leadsome has a decent chance of becoming PM followed rapidly by activation of Article 50.

John B · 7 July, 2016

Maybe I've got it wrong. I thought we had a referendum which your lot lost by 1.5m votes. You few on here that seemingly think they are the experts with those that want out misguided fools, whinge on endlessly dredging up statistics that apart from you nobody is really interested in. I voted out, Leave won, as long as the politicians carry out the will of the electorate, which they will as they don't have the courage to face the consequences, and we depart the EU, the UK will go it's own way and thrive. Any other result and the three mainstream parties are finished and we will come out anyway.

Yes OUT won the referendum last week but is highly likely that if it was held today that the result would be different as some of things said by the OUT side were clearly untrue and the things economists were saying have occurred which will eventually lead to unemployment and a reduction in living standards .

I voted REMAIN because there was not a plan available which showed in the future how the country would function economically outside the EU.

Without a successful economy the social fabric of the country will fail.

I do agree that the current economy is not good because of the Banking Crash and Austerity but that has sweet FA to do with the EU however people were happy with that a year ago as Cameron and Osborne were returned to Government through scare stories and untruths which people did not believe during the Referendum.

I know you want OUT but do you know what OUT really means because if you do you are probably one of the few around.

Lets face it there has been misinformation spread throughout the Referendum Campaign and it is quite easy to find out the true facts and people voted out for various reasons some nothing to do with the EU.

The referendum w3as only called by a weak Cameron to placate his Eurosceptic MPs and there was only one option REMAIN as nobody had any idea what the UK would look like out of the EU.

I know you voted OUT but do you know what OUT really means because if you do you are probably one of the few around. Have you any idea what the UK is going to be like in five years time it has got to be a lot different otherwise there was no point in leaving.

I voted NO in 1975 so I am not very good with Referendia

Purely on an economic level we find ourselves in a situation of uncertainty yes I accept fair democratic votes but if I find the outcome will cause suffering I object to it.

Labour Liberal party members and MPs accept that they lost the last election but they still get involved in opposing the Government that is what democracy is about speaking out when things are wrong with a view to getting back into Government at a later date.

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

You are. We will be coming out . The only debate now is whether we leave or remain in the single market . But , we are coming out of the EU and I suggest you get your head round it .

But expect to be reminded at every opportunity and on every occasion that we would be better off inside the EU. Do not underestimate the anger, real anger that is out there.

Batman · 7 July, 2016

lets say remain won by the same margin. who would be up for another go? whitey? John b? anyone?

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

But expect to be reminded at every opportunity and on every occasion that we would be better off inside the EU. Do not underestimate the anger, real anger that is out there.

Let's see what happens to The EU & then contrast that with what happens to The UK in the next 5 years . My guess is that anger will turn to relief and that most of the 48% that LOST the referendum will be grateful to us brave visionaries that voted out .

OldNick · 7 July, 2016

At the last two Conservative leadership contests the membership rejected the MP's choice. this time they have even more reason to do the same. Leadsome has a decent chance of becoming PM followed rapidly by activation of Article 50.

I really hope you are proved wrong. The last thing we need is somebody we know little about and already seems to have questions about her truthfulness. Like me I doubt you knew little about her until a few weeks ago.

I did notice though God is a major part of her life

CB Fry · 7 July, 2016

At the last two Conservative leadership contests the membership rejected the MP's choice. this time they have even more reason to do the same. Leadsome has a decent chance of becoming PM followed rapidly by activation of Article 50.

Not true - Cameron won the MPs vote and I believe I am right in saying then won the members vote and became leader of the Conservative Party.

In the one before that (excluding the Howard coronation) there was 5 votes between IDS and Ken Clarke so absolutely nothing like the gulf between May and the rest this time round.

Great myth though.

Verbal · 7 July, 2016

More direction-of-travel news...

1. The British political establishment have finagled the Tory leadership election, with the 'dream team' of Gove and Johnson now successfully consigned to the scrapheap, leaving a Leave candidate of such risible non-qualities that she counts as little more than a comedy candidate, whose serial lies and fantasies will be picked apart during the coming campaign. (That she attracts whoops of joy from rabid Brexiteers makes the coup all the more invisible.)

2. Government lawyers who might otherwise be spending their waking hours on a Brexit strategy - the biggest bureaucratic change of course since the second world war - are presently wrapped up with the coincidentally timed Chilcot report and its fall-out - all those lessons to be learned, checks and balances to be installed. It seems they don't have time even to prepare a brief for the first legal challenge, now before the courts, against the idea that the European Communities Act can be repealed by any body other than both Houses of a pro-Remain Parliament.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/deadline-approaches-government-response-brexit-legal-challenge-article-50

OldNick · 7 July, 2016

Let's see what happens to The EU & then contrast that with what happens to The UK in the next 5 years . My guess is that anger will turn to relief and that most of the 48% that LOST the referendum will be grateful to us brave visionaries that voted out .

Brave visionaries lol. Gamblers most like. Perhaps in 5 years you will be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and tell them why you gambled with their future on a whim.

CB Fry · 7 July, 2016

Brave visionaries lol. Gamblers most like. Perhaps in 5 years you will be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and tell them why you gambled with their future on a whim.

Brave visionaries: not the vast majority of working age (under 45) tax paying contributors to the economy. Or the vast majority of the population of the capital city whose tax take funds the rest of the nation by a blinking long chalk. Dem people ain't no visionaries.

Pensioners and C2DE dins from Skegness: there's yer visionaries.

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

I'll keep bumping this thread every summer for the next decade . Let's see how the EU is getting on compared to England

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

Brave visionaries lol. Gamblers most like. Perhaps in 5 years you will be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and tell them why you gambled with their future on a whim.

My 3 grandchildren will be thanking me for unshackling us from the dead hand of The Eu

shurlock · 7 July, 2016

My 3 grandchildren will be thanking me for unshackling us from the dead hand of The Eu

goneawol · 7 July, 2016

OldNick · 7 July, 2016

My 3 grandchildren will be thanking me for unshackling us from the dead hand of The Eu

I understand your dislike of the burocrats and this will obviously rumble for sometime,

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

Let's see what happens to The EU & then contrast that with what happens to The UK in the next 5 years . My guess is that anger will turn to relief and that most of the 48% that LOST the referendum will be grateful to us brave visionaries that voted out .

Just a guess? Surely you should be more certain than that before taking such an irresponsible gamble.

so22saint · 7 July, 2016

Let's see what happens to The EU & then contrast that with what happens to The UK in the next 5 years . My guess is that anger will turn to relief and that most of the 48% that LOST the referendum will be grateful to us brave visionaries that voted out .

I think you're wrong but I hope you are right. Unless it leads to another European war of course that we are expected by the ruling classes to die in. **** them

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

Just a guess? Surely you should be more certain than that before taking such an irresponsible gamble.

I was certain the EU is a basket case and will get worse

Johnny Bognor · 7 July, 2016

Brave visionaries lol. Gamblers most like. Perhaps in 5 years you will be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and tell them why you gambled with their future on a whim.

... assuming of course that staying in is not a gamble??

The eurozone is about to implode. Greece is bust, italian banks are on their last legs, the German banking system is teetering. All of the key decisions over the next few years will be related to what is best for the eurozone, to keep the euro alive. As we were not part of the eurozone, these would have massive implications for the UK.

So its not the case that remain = safe, whilst leave = gamble.

Early on in the campaign I was 50/50 possibly slightly remain as leave appeared to be a risk. Better to play it safe. But then i realised that remain was not that safe afterall. Its what tipped the balance for me. Being in control of the levers when the proverbial hits the fan... and it will

Edited 7 July, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

Whitey Grandad · 7 July, 2016

I was certain the EU is a basket case and will get worse

It could never be as bad as the unholy mess that we have now and will have for a lot more than five years.

Lord Duckhunter · 7 July, 2016

It could never be as bad as the unholy mess that we have now and will have for a lot more than five years.

Man up . If you think this is an " unholy mess" you really need to get a grip

I'll quote your post when The EU goes tits up

John B · 8 July, 2016

lets say remain won by the same margin. who would be up for another go? whitey? John b? anyone?

Good Morning Batman hope you have enjoyed your first two weeks outside the EU

I don’t think the margin is relevant what is relevant is that people who voted out have no idea what they have voted for and many people have said that they made a mistake voting Leave

Most did not realise that there would be major concerns with the economy and we still do not know what the negotiations will bring to whether we are in the single market or not and how long it will take to resolve any trade deals so we can export and foreign companies can invest for jobs and housing.

The Referendum was set up purely for political purposes not for you and me but for the Tory Party.

So with austerity and nobody listening it was not surprising there was a revolt and LEAVE won with quite a few dodgy messages.

I accept we are out of the EU but feel that the LEAVE side lied about how the economy would fare after we left the EU I know you don’t think that the economy matters but I can assure you things are not looking good for employment and living standards in the next few years

LEAVE also gave the impression there would be £350000m a day to be spent on the NHS immigration would be reduced and we would still be in the single market some of which they have backtracked on.

Now a bunch of right wing elitist Tories are going to vote a right wing Tory PM one who wants to bring back fox hunting and seems to have loads of money offshore which she is avoiding tax on and nobody at the moment.

With half a million people dying every year and possibly the same number of new electors on the electoral role the number wanting BREXIT when we finally leave will probably be less than now and they may even be in the minority is that democracy?

The only reason I can see for having another referendum is to let the electorate decide that the deal to leave the EU is a good one and the country will be better off than being in the EU

The only good thing is that lying Cameron and Slasher Osborne will no long be around to the benefit of their rich buddies whilst treating much of the population with contempt

ashnats · 8 July, 2016

Man up . If you think this is an " unholy mess" you really need to get a grip

I'll quote your post when The EU goes tits up

to be fair, we will never know. if the EU goes tits up, it will probably be because we left (if we leave). We'll never know if the UK being in the EU would have saved it, or prevented the european war and the 2028 plagues etc..

If the EU goes tits up, it is also not particularly good for 'new britain' either - a prosperous collaborative world is better than a f&*ed one. It's all very well leaving the EU and then laughing when Greece implodes, but maybe in 20 years it will be western european refugees begging for asylum in a utopian britain, with the poor beggars of europe pleading at our door, whilst we tell them all to f&*k off and play cards in our conservatories and sip pimms on the lawn.

John B · 8 July, 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/02/taking-europe-s-pulse
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21627620-deflation-euro-zone-all-too-close-and-extremely-dangerous-worlds-biggest-economic
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/business/international/eurozone-economy-q1.html?_r=0
https://www.socialeurope.eu/2016/02/eu-stagnation-continues-deja-vu-all-over-again/

Do you rank these sources alongside the Express and Mail?

I also read the youth unemployment figures for member states like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc and I conclude that if the economic prospects afforded by membership of the EU were so overwhelming, why are the youth unemployment rates so abysmally high in those countries?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276424/youth-unemployment-rate-in-the-eu-and-euro-area/

Yes you should be worried by unemployment Wes 10000s may lose their jobs in the UK in the next few months if the economy goes into recession.

However Portugal have a hard time because of the Global Banking crisis they are now starting to grow again but have gained significantly since they went into the EU with lots of investment for jobs .

I saw this comment on the Internet what do you think about it seems factually correct to me

Britain voted to leave the EU...

Technically correct - at least the referendum was in favour of leaving the EU.

Britain, however, has not yet DECIDED to leave the EU yet

Both sides used lies. The country is in a mess and heading further downhill.

Not clear what the Brexit referendum was about... sure, leaving the EU, but...

We want access to the single market, which comes with free movement of people (thought the Brexiteers didn't want 'free movement of people')

We didn't want to have to comply with EU rules (we would have to if we wanted to access the single market)

We expected to keep London as a financial centre (It's likely to move to somewhere else in the EU)

Some thought the NHS was going to get £3500000 a week extra

Property prices will fall (maybe, but why would you want to live there with no jobs)

So, unless you're a Brexiteer who thought we would sign a suicide pact with North Korea and everything would get better, we're going to pay more if we leave to get what we already had.

Surely time to stop this madness and have some further vote?

Verbal · 8 July, 2016

Not really needed, John B.

At the time of the Scottish referendum it was government policy to oppose independence. Yet they still produced a highly detailed 670-page-long document planning all the steps needed to implement a Yes vote. Compare and contrast with Brexit. No such document exists. There are no steps.

What does that tell you?

Never underestimate the power of the British establishment. Even when it gets something wrong it has ways and means of steering things back to its position.

Whitey Grandad · 8 July, 2016

Man up . If you think this is an " unholy mess" you really need to get a grip

I'll quote your post when The EU goes tits up

'Man up'? What the hell do you mean by that?

If you don't think this whole affair is an unholy mess then perhaps you should 'grow up'.

Or 'wise up'.

Or 'wake up and smell the coffee'.

Or 'get real'.

You get my drift.

badgerx16 · 8 July, 2016

'Man up'? What the hell do you mean by that?

If you don't think this whole affair is an unholy mess then perhaps you should 'grow up'.

Or 'wise up'.

Or 'wake up and smell the coffee'.

Or 'get real'.

You get my drift.

Perhaps he needs to stop talking 'pony'.

Guided Missile · 8 July, 2016

For the bed wetters out there, the optimistic tone of this thread with respect to trade, seems to have caught on in government, here.

Business Secretary Sajid Javid is visiting India for the first trade talks since Britain voted to leave the European Union. Mr Javid will meet Indian government officials in Delhi to discuss how the trading relationship with India might work with the UK outside the European Union. He will also visit the US, China, Japan and South Korea in the coming months.

Meanwhile, up north:

The board of Tata Steel is meeting in India to discuss the future of its UK steel operations. It is expected to "pause" the sale of the main Port Talbot plant, but go ahead with the sale of its speciality business, which employs 2,000 people in Hartlepool, Rotherham and Stocksbridge. Tata is thought to be in less of a hurry to sell because of rising steel prices and signs of government support.

The falling value of sterling couldn't have hurt the prospects for steel exports, either....

Great to see jobs saved and more good news to come, I'm sure. I bet Ford regrets taking the EU money and f** ckin off to Turkey to build Transits. €80m grant to a US company from the EU to take jobs from Southampton and place them in Turkey. Scandalous...

Whitey Grandad · 8 July, 2016

For the bed wetters out there, the optimistic tone of this thread with respect to trade, seems to have caught on in government, here.

Meanwhile, up north:

The falling value of sterling couldn't have hurt the prospects for steel exports, either....

Great to see jobs saved and more good news to come, I'm sure. I bet Ford regrets taking the EU money and f** ckin off to Turkey to build Transits. €80m grant to a US company from the EU to take jobs from Southampton and place them in Turkey. Scandalous...

It was a LOAN. Get your facts right. Yet more Brexit lies.

Batman · 8 July, 2016

It was a LOAN. Get your facts right. Yet more Brexit lies.

makes it alright then

Whitey Grandad · 8 July, 2016

makes it alright then

And being outside the EU would have prevented it?

(Or are you saying that it's alright for Brexiteers to quote falsehoods?)

Wes Tender · 8 July, 2016

It was a LOAN. Get your facts right. Yet more Brexit lies.

Yes, a very low interest loan partly financed by funding to the European Investment Bank from the British taxpayer to export jobs from the UK to Turkey.

CB Fry · 8 July, 2016

Yes, a very low interest loan partly financed by funding to the European Investment Bank from the British taxpayer to export jobs from the UK to Turkey.

That's global capitalism, bi tch.

harvey · 8 July, 2016

I said nothing of the sort, don't try and twist my words. Where did I say that they shouldn't have a say in anything?

We should all be grateful for the disproportionate contribution to the costs of society that is made by the 'high earners'.

If you break it down, that really is what you're saying..........tbh, I've got fed up of reading this thread and seeing people like you ****ing their pants because you haven't got your own way. You're accusing leavers of ruining your childrens and grandchildrens lives...your vitriolic abuse and down right hatefullness towards the people who disagree with your opinion is disgusting.

And the funny thing is, you're a grandad, and the some of the people who are being so aggresive about staying in the EU are saying someone of your age shouldn't even have a voice........suck it up.

Whitey Grandad · 8 July, 2016

If you break it down, that really is what you're saying..........tbh, I've got fed up of reading this thread and seeing people like you ****ing their pants because you haven't got your own way. You're accusing leavers of ruining your childrens and grandchildrens lives...your vitriolic abuse and down right hatefullness towards the people who disagree with your opinion is disgusting.
And the funny thing is, you're a grandad, and the some of the people who are being so aggresive about staying in the EU are saying someone of your age shouldn't even have a voice........suck it up.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, you are deliberately attributing meanings that aren't there.

I presume that when you say 'you' you are referring to Remainers in general and not me in particular?

I'm struggling to understand the meaning behind your last sentence, there's no logic in it.

What exactly does 'suck it up' mean?

Wade Garrett · 8 July, 2016

Can you cry-babies just get your heads round the result, please.

We're leaving the EU. It was a democratic vote. Maybe the lack of democracy in the EU appeals to you, but we're coming out.

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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum 217 members have voted

1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum
217 members have voted