Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Guided Missile]

What don't you understand about neutrality? My father, an air gunner, thinks the EU is exactly what he fought for, a joined up peaceful Europe.

The EU is planning its own army. Members of the EU that were formally neutral, such as Ireland, Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral, as the EU has its own Common Foreign and Security Policy. Watch these countries get dragged into a war with Russia, by the inept EU. They will soon come running to NATO, as the EU couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag and Putin knows that.

[so22saint]

The EU is planning its own army. Members of the EU that were formally neutral, such as Ireland, Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral, as the EU has its own Common Foreign and Security Policy. Watch these countries get dragged into a war with Russia, by the inept EU. They will soon come running to NATO, as the EU couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag and Putin knows that.

 

Or, in reality, any attack on a NATO country by Russia will lead to a NATO counterattack as per the NATO agreement, as opposed to an EU army coming running to anybody.

 

Of course, that will be the end of it for all of us (maybe not NZ Saint), with the upside that we won't have to read your bull**** and lies anymore

[Wes Tender]

Or, in reality, any attack on a NATO country by Russia will lead to a NATO counterattack as per the NATO agreement, as opposed to an EU army coming running to anybody.

 

Of course, that will be the end of it for all of us (maybe not NZ Saint), with the upside that we won't have to read your bull**** and lies anymore ��

 

I marvel at the apparent lack of joined up thinking that leads you to conclude that annihilation is the route to you not having to read GM's posts, when there is the simple alternative solution of employing the ignore button instead.

[so22saint]

I marvel at the apparent lack of joined up thinking that leads you to conclude that annihilation is the route to you not having to read GM's posts, when there is the simple alternative solution of employing the ignore button instead.

 

Where's the fun in that Wes? ;-).

 

Annihilation?

No, not for me, they said I could leave.

Really? Well, off you go then.

Ha Ha, not really, it's annihilation for me as well.

Ha, you got me there. Take a nuke from the right and move on

[moonraker]

The EU is planning its own army. Members of the EU that were formally neutral, such as Ireland, Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral, as the EU has its own Common Foreign and Security Policy. Watch these countries get dragged into a war with Russia, by the inept EU. They will soon come running to NATO, as the EU couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag and Putin knows that.

 

This old cherry, the EU is not planning its own army, yes a few senior politicians and bureaucrats in the EU have stated an aspiration for an EU wide Army, and have even written papers and proposal for such. It’s a good headline for eurosceptic’s but in reality it’s a pipe dream. You also need to understand that the term EU Army has a number connotations; Eurosceptics choose to interpret it as all EU military forces under a single chain of command, to some it is an extension to the current EU Rapid Reaction Force, to others it is more joint operations in support of EU policy and goals. Of the current 28 members of the EU 22 are members of NATO, they do not need to go running to NATO for assistance its fundamental to the alliance that they would receive it, see Nato's five - collective security clause. There is no mandate in the EU to supplant NATO which the EU unanimously acknowledges as the primary Alliance for defence against state on state aggression. In fact you have identified the problem to creating an EU Army in your ill thought out statement, in that Ireland, Sweden, Austria, and Finland are still neutral, and they would have a veto over any move to an EU Wide army as peddled by Eurosceptics. Equally the other EU countries are equally proud other national armed forces and will not pass control of them to the EU

Your ‘couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag’ is based on what? Have you spent anytime operating with multiple forces from across the EU? Are you a military analyst? I do have wide experience of working with international military forces and I can assure you there are many highly capable militaries in the EU, try invading those neutral countries Sweden and Finland. The average Eurosceptic view of EU militaries has little basis in fact, and like many such views is far more a condemnation of those who hold the view than of hose whom they seek to denigrate.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Errrrrrr that's what I said. Thanks for confirming that I had interpreted the article correctly, unlike some on here lol

 

Can you imagine if these businesses weren't conducting the due diligence to moving elsewhere? We'd be accusing them of all sorts of mismanagement.

[Guided Missile]

...Ireland, Sweden, Austria, and Finland are still neutral, and they would have a veto over any move to an EU Wide army as peddled by Eurosceptics. Equally the other EU countries are equally proud other national armed forces and will not pass control of them to the EU

Your ‘couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag’ is based on what? Have you spent anytime operating with multiple forces from across the EU? Are you a military analyst? I do have wide experience of working with international military forces and I can assure you there are many highly capable militaries in the EU, try invading those neutral countries Sweden and Finland. The average Eurosceptic view of EU militaries has little basis in fact, and like many such views is far more a condemnation of those who hold the view than of hose whom they seek to denigrate.

As part of the EU, Ireland, Sweden, Austria and Finland are not neutral. This view was supported by the Finnish Prime Minister, Matti Vanhanen, on 5 July 2006, while speaking to the European Parliament as Council President;

Mr Pflüger described Finland as neutral. I must correct him on that: Finland is a member of the EU. We were at one time a politically neutral country, during the time of the Iron Curtain. Now we are a member of the Union, part of this community of values, which has a common policy and, moreover, a common foreign policy.

As far as the military capability of the EU, there are, in my opinion, only two countries with armies capable of standing up to Russia's military might, namely the UK and France. One of those is leaving the EU and both would require the assistance of the US anyway. I can't see the Trump administration through NATO getting too involved the next time the EU meddles in Russian interests again, given the contribution the EU makes to NATO:

 

According to NATO statistics, the U.S. spent an estimated $650 billion on defense last year. That's more than double the amount all the other 27 NATO countries spent between them, even though their combined GDP tops that of the U.S., so I don't blame Trump preferring to talk to Putin. I can't see the French or Germans being much help.

Edited 22 December, 2016 by Guided Missile

[moonraker]

As part of the EU, Ireland, Sweden, Austria and Finland are not neutral. This view was supported by the Finnish Prime Minister, Matti Vanhanen, on 5 July 2006, while speaking to the European Parliament as Council President;

As far as the military capability of the EU, there are, in my opinion, only two countries with armies capable of standing up to Russia's military might, namely the UK and France. One of those is leaving the EU and both would require the assistance of the US anyway. I can't see the Trump administration through NATO getting too involved the next time the EU meddles in Russian interests again, given the contribution the EU makes to NATO:

 

According to NATO statistics, the U.S. spent an estimated $650 billion on defense last year. That's more than double the amount all the other 27 NATO countries spent between them, even though their combined GDP tops that of the U.S., so I don't blame Trump preferring to talk to Putin. I can't see the French or Germans being much help.

 

No country in the EU standing on it own can stand up to the Russians, in 1939 - 40 Finland held and beat the Russians, it is not GDP or numbers of troops but quality and determination. Whatever the Finnish PM said it does not alter the fact that the 4 countries I named are Militarily Neutral and it of military maters we have been debating, none of these countries has foreign military presence in their countries EU led or otherwise. It is exactly this type of misunderstanding of how the things really are that leads to so much suspicion and misunderstanding, led by bullsh**tter in chief Nigel Farage.

[Guided Missile]

Whatever the Finnish PM said it does not alter the fact that the 4 countries I named are Militarily Neutral...

[badgerx16]

http://nato.gov.si/eng/topic/national-security/neutral-status/neutral-countries/

"Neutral European countries: Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Ireland"

Finland derives its policy of neutrality from the period directly following the Second World War. Its interest in remaining neutral in conflicts between great powers was first recognised in a treaty between Finland and the USSR in 1948 (the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance). The treaty forbids the signatories to join a military alliance against the other, and Finland could not allow its territory to be used for an attack on the USSR. Finland was also bound to preserve its neutrality through adequate armed forces. Finland's neutrality does not have roots in international law, and there are no international pledges for its neutrality. Thus Finland, like Austria, is a case of enforced neutrality, again by the USSR.

 

 

[Guided Missile]

Article 24/3 of the TEU (Treaty of the European Union) states:

The Member States shall support the Union's external and security policy actively and unreservedly in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity and shall comply with the Union's action in this area.

Yeah, right, neutral member states....read the above and try and understand the fundamental reason the PM of Finland clearly understood why they are no longer "neutral" along with the other bunch of free loaders hiding behind NATO's shield.

Putin also understands this and is why, during Trump's campaign he referred to nuclear proliferation as the "single biggest problem" facing the world, but also said he could not rule out using nuclear weapons against Europe.

 

Thank God we are out of the EU. Meddling bunch of clueless unelected bureaucrats....

[John B]

This does not look very encouraging for the future

 

The Trump administration planning to exploit BREXIT for the benefit of the US

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/12/25/a-worrying-christmas-present-for-the-brexiteers-from-team-trump/

 

Dozens of UK banks and financial firms 'looking at moving to Ireland'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland

[Guided Missile]

This does not look very encouraging for the future

 

The Trump administration planning to exploit BREXIT for the benefit of the US

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/12/25/a-worrying-christmas-present-for-the-brexiteers-from-team-trump/

 

Dozens of UK banks and financial firms 'looking at moving to Ireland'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland

And the flip side, here.

 

Lord King says Brexit brings 'real opportunities'

 

and here.

 

UK GDP growth better than expected in Brexit vote aftermath

[John B]

And the flip side, here.

 

 

 

and here.

 

Lord King is expressing an opinion which is not based on any facts just like most Brexiteers but if the the things mentioned in the article come to fruition things will look bad.

 

Brexit still looks to me dumbest decision ever taken by British people worry now is who will be blamed when none of promised benefits get delivered?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Lord King is expressing an opinion which is not based on any facts just like most Brexiteers but if the the things mentioned in the article come to fruition things will look bad.

 

Brexit still looks to me dumbest decision ever taken by British people worry now is who will be blamed when none of promised benefits get delivered?

 

 

Lol , lord King " just expressing an opinion" , not based on facts. What's your " dumbest decision " based on? Personally, I'll take lord kings opinion over yours

[badgerx16]

Lord King is expressing an opinion which is not based on any facts just like most Brexiteers but if the the things mentioned in the article come to fruition things will look bad.

 

Brexit still looks to me dumbest decision ever taken by British people worry now is who will be blamed when none of promised benefits get delivered?

Problem is, we will probably have to wait 10 years to find out whether Brexit was a good idea or not. This thread has the potential to surpass the Pompey Takeover epic.

[Wes Tender]

Lord King is expressing an opinion which is not based on any facts just like most Brexiteers but if the the things mentioned in the article come to fruition things will look bad.

 

Brexit still looks to me dumbest decision ever taken by British people worry now is who will be blamed when none of promised benefits get delivered?

 

When it's somebody on the Brexit side sounding positive about the benefits of leaving the EU, it is opinion based on nothing factual. But when it is a so-called economic expert spouting doom and gloom about the repercussions of our leaving, then it is accepted as the gospel truth by the remoaners.

 

What is really dumb, is arriving at a conclusion about the effects of a decision taken by over half of the electorate who voted in the referendum, without allowing a reasonable passage of time to pass which would allow some basis for that opinion. It is reminiscent of all the woeful bleating by the same so-called experts when we decided not to join the Eurozone. It would have been interesting to have had this forum available to us then, so that we could look back at the tales of doom and gloom which would probably have emanated from the same posters who decry us leaving their beloved dysfunctional EU.

 

There will only be blame aimed at the Government and Parliament if they do not deliver what the electorate voted for, a complete break away from the EU and the regaining of lost sovereignty over all of our own affairs.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Yes, in his dotage Lord King apparently feels that Bretix presents the UK with lots of "opportunities" - one of those opportunities presumably being for us all to get a Hell of a lot poorer.

[John B]

When it's somebody on the Brexit side sounding positive about the benefits of leaving the EU, it is opinion based on nothing factual. But when it is a so-called economic expert spouting doom and gloom about the repercussions of our leaving, then it is accepted as the gospel truth by the remoaners.

 

What is really dumb, is arriving at a conclusion about the effects of a decision taken by over half of the electorate who voted in the referendum, without allowing a reasonable passage of time to pass which would allow some basis for that opinion. It is reminiscent of all the woeful bleating by the same so-called experts when we decided not to join the Eurozone. It would have been interesting to have had this forum available to us then, so that we could look back at the tales of doom and gloom which would probably have emanated from the same posters who decry us leaving their beloved dysfunctional EU.

 

There will only be blame aimed at the Government and Parliament if they do not deliver what the electorate voted for, a complete break away from the EU and the regaining of lost sovereignty over all of our own affairs.

 

Sanctimonious rubbish the electorate had little idea what they were voting for and what the ramifications of leaving the EU are.

 

Most who voted out thought leaving would have no affect on their standard of living which is going to be cruelly exposed in the next few months

 

You just wait and see

[shurlock]

When it's somebody on the Brexit side sounding positive about the benefits of leaving the EU, it is opinion based on nothing factual. But when it is a so-called economic expert spouting doom and gloom about the repercussions of our leaving, then it is accepted as the gospel truth by the remoaners.

 

What is really dumb, is arriving at a conclusion about the effects of a decision taken by over half of the electorate who voted in the referendum, without allowing a reasonable passage of time to pass which would allow some basis for that opinion. It is reminiscent of all the woeful bleating by the same so-called experts when we decided not to join the Eurozone. It would have been interesting to have had this forum available to us then, so that we could look back at the tales of doom and gloom which would probably have emanated from the same posters who decry us leaving their beloved dysfunctional EU.

 

There will only be blame aimed at the Government and Parliament if they do not deliver what the electorate voted for, a complete break away from the EU and the regaining of lost sovereignty over all of our own affairs.

 

Les did they vote for access to the single market - not inconsistent with being outside the EU? The referendum certainly didn't ask voters whether they wanted sovereignty over all their own affairs? That's more wishful thinking boll**ks from you, the arch purveyor of wishful thinking boll**ks.

[Guided Missile]

Sanctimonious rubbish the electorate had little idea what they were voting for and what the ramifications of leaving the EU are.

What an ignorant lot the British electorate are. A pity more people don't have your intelligence and insight, with which you have made millions, obviously.

[Wes Tender]

Les did they vote for access to the single market - not inconsistent with being outside the EU? The referendum certainly didn't ask voters whether they wanted sovereignty over all their own affairs? That's more wishful thinking boll**ks from you, the arch purveyor of wishful thinking boll**ks.

 

Shatlock, Under the Treaties of Maastricht, Nice, Amsterdam and Lisbon, did the electorate vote for a federal Europe? Did they vote for loss of sovereignty? Did they vote for our legal system to be subservient to the European Court? Did they vote for unlimited uncontrolled immigration from the other EU member states? No, they didn't. Do you really believe that they would have voted for these things had they been the given the opportunity that they had a right to?

 

Therefore it's a bit rich you rabbiting on about whether the electorate understood what they were voting for in this referendum when they had been denied a say in the political events that led to this situation. Presumably in your arrogance you will applaud the fact that the electorate was denied a say on those treaties, on the grounds that to your mind they were too thick to understand the implications of their actions.

 

I am sure that like me, many of the leave voters will take a degree of satisfaction in witnessing the pathetic bleating of those like you, who are incapable of recognising the positive opportunities that will present themselves to us once freed from the overweening bureaucratic shackles of the EU that bind and hinder us. So carry on with the playground insults, but you should know that I derive a certain amount of Schadenfreude from it. Water off a duck's back, old boy.

[badgerx16]

 

I am sure that like me, many of the leave voters will take a degree of satisfaction in witnessing the pathetic bleating of those like you, who are incapable of recognising the positive opportunities that will present themselves to us once freed from the overweening bureaucratic shackles of the EU that bind and hinder us. So carry on with the playground insults, but you should know that I derive a certain amount of Schadenfreude from it. Water off a duck's back, old boy.

 

As you have as little idea about where we will be in 5 years time as anybody else, epecially those doing our Brexit negotiations, can I suggest you keep your powder dry. You may yet find the schadenfreude heading your way.

[Wes Tender]

As you have as little idea about where we will be in 5 years time as anybody else, epecially those doing our Brexit negotiations, can I suggest you keep your powder dry. You may yet find the schadenfreude heading your way.

 

Perhaps your advice would better be given to John B and Charlie Boy, as they have already decided what the outcome will be, even before we have triggered article 50. I'm quite happy to wait and see what transpires, and have said so previously. No doubt I will be content outside of the EU even if there is a short term economic reverse. Ultimately it will all work out fine.

[shurlock]

Shatlock, Under the Treaties of Maastricht, Nice, Amsterdam and Lisbon, did the electorate vote for a federal Europe? Did they vote for loss of sovereignty? Did they vote for our legal system to be subservient to the European Court? Did they vote for unlimited uncontrolled immigration from the other EU member states? No, they didn't. Do you really believe that they would have voted for these things had they been the given the opportunity that they had a right to?

 

Therefore it's a bit rich you rabbiting on about whether the electorate understood what they were voting for in this referendum when they had been denied a say in the political events that led to this situation. Presumably in your arrogance you will applaud the fact that the electorate was denied a say on those treaties, on the grounds that to your mind they were too thick to understand the implications of their actions.

 

I am sure that like me, many of the leave voters will take a degree of satisfaction in witnessing the pathetic bleating of those like you, who are incapable of recognising the positive opportunities that will present themselves to us once freed from the overweening bureaucratic shackles of the EU that bind and hinder us. So carry on with the playground insults, but you should know that I derive a certain amount of Schadenfreude from it. Water off a duck's back, old boy.

 

Les- remind me of the precise wording of the referendum question.

 

Yours

Shatlock

[John B]

Perhaps your advice would better be given to John B and Charlie Boy, as they have already decided what the outcome will be, even before we have triggered article 50. I'm quite happy to wait and see what transpires, and have said so previously. No doubt I will be content outside of the EU even if there is a short term economic reverse. Ultimately it will all work out fine.

Really so perhaps you can answer some of these questions

 

Have you seen a plan?

Remind me, what does Brexit mean?

What’s your problem with parliament?

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are?

What’s great about being out on your own?

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of?

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet?

Precisely what control have you got back?

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon?

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home?

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called?

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019?

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students?

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg? Who do you think will be doing so in the future?

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad?

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan?

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money?

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import?

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs?

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape?

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK?

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues?

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting?

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK?

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome?

[Batman]

Really so perhaps you can answer some of these questions

 

Have you seen a plan?

No, and dont expect to.

 

Remind me, what does Brexit mean?

Means brexit - leaving the European Union

 

What’s your problem with parliament?

None

 

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are?

Small

 

What’s great about being out on your own?

Most of the world is, life is out there beyond the great EU

 

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of?

Probably immigration rules as they are

 

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet?

we have not left yet

 

Precisely what control have you got back?

we have not left yet

 

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon?

nope, and I suspect that EU nationals living here wont have to leave either

 

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home?

see above

 

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called?

see above

 

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019?

yes. daft question

 

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students?

I doubt any universities will go bust

 

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg? Who do you think will be doing so in the future?

working immigrants I suspect

 

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad?

why would they be denied form working and living abroad?

 

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan?

they desperately rely on our armed forces and security services, that will not change one bit.

 

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money?

is that a fact?

 

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import?

we have not left yet

 

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs?

this is something to be worked out. dont know

 

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape?

I doubt they will be in those jobs forever. Celebrate new employment?

 

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK?

Good luck to them if they do

 

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues?

that wont happen will it

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting?

dunno really

 

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK?

Why are you limiting this to the Australians?

 

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome?

been to Europe since. (france and italy) Many very much want out themselves who I spoke to. Tiny percentage I know but nationalism is on the rise right across Europe

 

my take

Edited 27 December, 2016 by Batman

[CB Fry]

Really so perhaps you can answer some of these questions

 

Have you seen a plan?

Remind me, what does Brexit mean?

What’s your problem with parliament?

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are?

What’s great about being out on your own?

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of?

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet?

Precisely what control have you got back?

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon?

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home?

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called?

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019?

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students?

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg? Who do you think will be doing so in the future?

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad?

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan?

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money?

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import?

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs?

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape?

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK?

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues?

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting?

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK?

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome?

German car makers banging on Merkel's door means we get everything we want out of everything.

[John B]

[/b]

 

my take

 

So your take is mostly dont know not able to answer and has not happened yet despite the majority people who know about the subjects saying it is likely to happen.

 

 

Of course I agree with your answers regarding repatriation but the people who are affected no doubt are suffering quite a bit at the moment and should be told what is going to happen so they can plan for the rest of their lives

 

.

[Wes Tender]

Really so perhaps you can answer some of these questions

 

Have you seen a plan?

Remind me, what does Brexit mean?

What’s your problem with parliament?

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are?

What’s great about being out on your own?

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of?

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet?

Precisely what control have you got back?

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon?

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home?

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called?

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019?

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students?

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg? Who do you think will be doing so in the future?

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad?

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan?

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money?

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import?

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs?

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape?

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK?

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues?

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting?

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK?

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome?

 

I suggest that you take Badger's advice and wait and see what transpires. Most of the questions you ask are either totally spurious, based on conjecture, or have already been discussed in general terms, but some border on the hysterical, typical of "Project Fear", which was instrumental in losing the referendum for the remain side.

 

Some of your questions are just plain daft, schoolboy debating society stuff. For example, you tell me what the odds are in a game of 27 against one. This isn't to be trivialised as a game, but the answer in the case of us leaving the EU is certainly not 27/1. What are the odds against Usain Bolt winning a 100 metres sprint against any number of people?

 

Either do some research, or take a chill pill. Your stress levels must be through the roof, so I worry about your health at your age. As I said, I'm quite happy to wait as events develop. Roll on March, not long to go now.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Have you seen a plan? No did not expect to see one - It would be unwise to show our hand

Remind me, what does Brexit mean? - It means leaving the EU

What’s your problem with parliament? - Nothing I want it to take back responsibility for more of our laws

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are? - That is one of the reasons I think we should be leaving

What’s great about being out on your own? - You can make your own decisions

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of? - Regulations on bananas?

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet? - No but when we leave I think it will be better to keep the £10 back rather than give it to Brussels and let them give us a fiver back without ever being able to account for where the other £5er went

Precisely what control have you got back? - None yet but we will do.

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon? - No and the ones staying here will not have to leave anyway

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home? - Won't need to just don't like the word unlimited

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called? - This is not relevant

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019? - We will still have immigration

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students? - They will have to perform better

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg? - Who do you think will be doing so in the future? We will still have immigration so probably the same people if not anybody else from around the world

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad? - I am not.

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan? It is probably more likely now to happen because of the EU. - Just read the news

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money? - It is not

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import? - We will buy British instead.

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs? - By buying British

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape? - This is a long term project and I accept short term upheaval

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK? - Not really I don't think they will leave though

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues? - Efforts by the EU in the 90's to make Frankfurt the financial city of Europe failed. I expect the City to maintain its status

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting? - Would be great to encourage more business here.

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK? - Cheese

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome? Cornwall - always get a warm welcome there

[John B]

I suggest that you take Badger's advice and wait and see what transpires. Most of the questions you ask are either totally spurious, based on conjecture, or have already been discussed in general terms, but some border on the hysterical, typical of "Project Fear", which was instrumental in losing the referendum for the remain side.

 

Some of your questions are just plain daft, schoolboy debating society stuff. For example, you tell me what the odds are in a game of 27 against one. This isn't to be trivialised as a game, but the answer in the case of us leaving the EU is certainly not 27/1. What are the odds against Usain Bolt winning a 100 metres sprint against any number of people?

 

Either do some research, or take a chill pill. Your stress levels must be through the roof, so I worry about your health at your age. As I said, I'm quite happy to wait as events develop. Roll on March, not long to go now.

 

I fully understand your your inability to discuss the issues which are relevant to the UK leaving the EU because you have little idea of them many of which you think do not affect you but certainly do affect other people .

 

Unlike you who come across as a loud mouth selfish knowall who thinks everything he feels is correct I have a social conscience and realise that leaving the EU is going to cause hardship and problems for many fellow citizens and is a wrong decision for the security and long term financial and social prosperity of the country.

 

You will eventually realise that the so called project fear is the truth and you will have been sold a pup and then you will get angry but I wonder who you will then blame

[Johnny Bognor]

Can I play???

 

 

Have you seen a plan?

It was an unexpected result. There was no plan but it is the UK governments job to formulate on and deliver. There was no plan for the EU and there still isn't one.

 

 

Remind me, what does Brexit mean?

Leaving the EU

 

What’s your problem with parliament?

I have no problem with the UK parliament, as it has generally worked for decades.

 

Do you know what the odds of winning in a game of 27 to 1 are?

Not sure of what you mean. Are we 'playing' 27 other countries in something??

 

What’s great about being out on your own?

Many countries seem to do OK. In fact, the euro has severely damaged many countries. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy. As the euro proves, being part of a club is not always a good thing.

 

Tell me precisely which EU regulations you want to get rid of?

Don't need specifics, just the ability to have control over the ones we see fit.

 

Have you seen that £350 million a week bonus yet?

We haven't left yet and £350m was the gross contribution.

 

Precisely what control have you got back?

We haven't left yet. But when we do, our sovereign parliament can do what it thinks is best for UK citizens without outside interference. Only last week, the UK government was told that it cant hold data when it is in the interests of our safety and security.

 

Are you expecting two million UK nationals living in the EU to return home soon?

No. I think many living in the bankrupt euro zone countries will be more than welcome to stay in them

 

How are you going to decide who you’re sending home?

Are people being forcibly removed???

 

Do you know what someone who is forced to leave the country where they live is called?

See above

 

How are you going to make sure the NHS has the nurses it needs when we impose migration controls in 2019?

There will still be immigration based on the needs of our economy. Control of immigration is very different to having no immigration. Anyway, the vast majority of immigrants working in the NHS, are not from the EU, so what's your point???

 

Which UK universities are you happy to see go bust because of a shortage of EU students?

Universities pre-date the EU. I would expect and welcome more students from the rest of the world. Giving preference to EU students could be deemed as prejudice against Chinese, Asian and African students.

 

Do you know who picks most of the UK’s fruit and veg?

This is one area that needs looking at. A significant proportion of English youngsters are lazy and have a sense of entitlement that is not shared by their Polish equivalents. A controlled and sensible immigration policy should ensure that we have enough resource.

 

Why are you so keen to deny our young people the chance to live, learn and work abroad?

Many youngsters do live and work abroad, as the EU is not the only destination. With the growing influence of China, I would be looking to work out there if I was young. There aren't too many jobs for youngsters in the bankrupt Eurozone states like Spain, Greece, Italy etc.

 

The EU was intended to prevent war ever happening again in Europe. How does leaving help that? What’s the plan?

I think NATO has some bearing on this. What did we do between 1945 and 1975???

 

How is increased paperwork for every single import and export going to save British business money?

Even imports that already come from outside the EU? I think you need to go back to the drawing board.

 

How precisely will we be better off when we have to pay tariffs on most things we import?

We will buy more British product.

 

We import more than we export. How are we going to win from tariffs?

By importing less, making more.

 

How are the 30,000 new civil servants working on Brexit cutting red tape?

I would suggest this is only temporary in the short to medium term

 

Did you want to encourage Northern Ireland and Scotland to leave the UK?

That is for them to decide. When the oil runs out, Scotland will need us far more than we need them.

 

When the City is based in Frankfurt where will you find replacement tax revenues?

This is another misconception. It's not as if the whole of London will need to move. Most companies would set up subsidiaries to continue trading. As it happens, the surplus in financial services is 40bn. I wonder how much tax is paid on that.

 

Did you want the UK to be a tax haven with no chance if you benefitting?

WTF? ??

 

What is it that the Australians are going to buy more of from the UK?

The UK is the 2nd largest exporter of services in the world. This is our future...

 

Where are you going on holiday next year? Expecting a warm welcome?

If we get a hostile reception somewhere, we will **** off somewhere else where they would be more than glad to take our money.

Edited 27 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Wes Tender]

I fully understand your your inability to discuss the issues which are relevant to the UK leaving the EU because you have little idea of them many of which you think do not affect you but certainly do affect other people .

 

Unlike you who come across as a loud mouth selfish knowall who thinks everything he feels is correct I have a social conscience and realise that leaving the EU is going to cause hardship and problems for many fellow citizens and is a wrong decision for the security and long term financial and social prosperity of the country.

 

You will eventually realise that the so called project fear is the truth and you will have been sold a pup and then you will get angry but I wonder who you will then blame

 

Weren't these issues discussed ad nauseum during the referendum campaign, or did I miss it? I realise that to your mind a reticence to rake over old coals equates to you concluding that I have no idea of the issues and how they will affect me as an individual, or the country as a whole, so I apologise if you're upset that I won't play ball.

 

The trouble with remoaners like you, is your inability to recognise that those who voted to leave the sclerotic EU, did so motivated by the belief that we as a country would benefit economically, politically and socially by doing so. Your trite little list which has been pulled to pieces by other posters, illustrates which of us is the one who considers themselves to be the know it all; it is you. As always, it is the likes of you who is arrogant enough to claim some sort of moral superiority, as if nobody who voted to leave can have voted on grounds of social conscience, compassion for others and a belief that this course of action would be to the greater benefit of the country and the majority of the population.

 

Talking about being sold pups and getting angry, the pup was sold to us as the Common Market. My anger goes back decades to when that project changed beyond recognition, as I have already intimated. I'm hardly likely to be angry now that we are breaking free of the EU and regaining control over our own future, am I?

[Window Cleaner]

So, over 6 months on and from the outside it all looks to have not advanced one iota. I can't help thinking that if Cameron had felt able to stay on and see the job through then it might be a bit more orderly.

For me personally it has already cost over 3000€ and they didn't even let us long time expats vote.

[buctootim]

So, over 6 months on and from the outside it all looks to have not advanced one iota. I can't help thinking that if Cameron had felt able to stay on and see the job through then it might be a bit more orderly.

For me personally it has already cost over 3000€ and they didn't even let us long time expats vote.

 

Regardless of in or out, stay or leave I genuinely don't think May is up to it. She keeps talking like a petty dictator - acting as though she has a mandate to do whatever she wants, and then immediately getting slapped down by the courts, other ministers and business. Much of the opposition to leaving is avoidable and down to her refusing to say what the plan / end game is. You must do that in a democracy - especially when you weren't even elected.

 

I want to stay but if she had said at the outset "it will take us 10 years to leave so we will do it in two stages - technically leave in two, fully leave in 10" it would have been a credible plan. Instead we've had the nonsense of 'we can dictate terms and have trade deals with the world lined up in two'. I dont think she has the leadership qualities needed - the authority and and sense of purpose. Atm its looking as though whatever deal is struck, leave or stay, is going to be messy and badly thought out.

Edited 28 December, 2016 by buctootim

[shurlock]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/ministers-lack-courage-to-admit-complexity-of-brexit-say-civil-servants

 

Strikes me as the same mix of naivety and denial that characterises our finer brexit specimens on here.

[OldNick]

Regardless of in or out, stay or leave I genuinely don't think May is up to it. She keeps talking like a petty dictator - acting as though she has a mandate to do whatever she wants, and then immediately getting slapped down by the courts, other ministers and business. Much of the opposition to leaving is avoidable and down to her refusing to say what the plan / end game is. You must do that in a democracy - especially when you weren't even elected.

 

I want to stay but if she had said at the outset "it will take us 10 years to leave so we will do it in two stages - technically leave in two, fully leave in 10" it would have been a credible plan. Instead we've had the nonsense of 'we can dictate terms and have trade deals with the world lined up in two'. I dont think she has the leadership qualities needed - the authority and and sense of purpose. Atm its looking as though whatever deal is struck, leave or stay, is going to be messy and badly thought out.

The vote was to leave, to show your hand is ridiculous and so her job is to get the best deal for us all. all this nonsense about voting for the terms, so if it is voted that that is not acceptable, we have to go back and renegotiate and the people on the other side can see our hand.

It is an impossible job and so we needf to leave it to the chosen people to get the best they can.

[buctootim]

we need to leave it to the chosen people to get the best they can.

 

Smirk. I'm glad you know your place. Chosen by who?

 

What mandate is there for anything beyond 'leave'? then what?

[Lord Duckhunter]

So, over 6 months on and from the outside it all looks to have not advanced one iota. I can't help thinking that if Cameron had felt able to stay on and see the job through then it might be a bit more orderly.

For me personally it has already cost over 3000€ and they didn't even let us long time expats vote.

 

Cameron lied, he had no intention of staying on .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benjii]

There should be a general election.

 

Let the parties provide as much or as little detail as to how they would seek to implement (or not implement) Brexit in their manifestos and let's allow the country to decide who it wants.

 

Cameron's immediate resignation has left something of a democratic deficit itself - possibly inevitable seeing as he, personally, "lost" the referendum - and I think the challenge is so significant that a general election is a necessary precursor.

 

Anyway, I'm off for a pre-match pint or two.

[badgerx16]

........ to show your hand is ridiculous .....

 

Other than 'Brexit means Brexit', what exactly is 'our hand' likely to be ? The UK voted to leave the EU, and the EEA option seems to be unacceptable due to the links to freedom of movement, so it wouldn't need the best brains on the EU side to work out our 'worst case acceptable position'.

Any idea what the EU's 'hand' might be, are they likely to show it in advance ?

[Window Cleaner]

There should be a general election.

 

Let the parties provide as much or as little detail as to how they would seek to implement (or not implement) Brexit in their manifestos and let's allow the country to decide who it wants.

 

Cameron's immediate resignation has left something of a democratic deficit itself - possibly inevitable seeing as he, personally, "lost" the referendum - and I think the challenge is so significant that a general election is a necessary precursor.

 

Anyway, I'm off for a pre-match pint or two.

 

Ah there you'd have the popular vote against house seats stuff all over again. For instance all Scottish Nat MP would be anti brexit but not all of Scotland's population would be. Same as Trump vs California and New York.

Edited 28 December, 2016 by Window Cleaner

[Wes Tender]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/ministers-lack-courage-to-admit-complexity-of-brexit-say-civil-servants

 

Strikes me as the same mix of naivety and denial that characterises our finer brexit specimens on here.

 

Oh look, a Guardian article, the fount of all veracity

 

Penpusherman, who represents senior civil servants – who cannot speak directly to the media – said May appeared to be leading a government that could not cope with any discussion about problems of implementation, as it was interpreted as criticism.

 

How did this appear in the media then? Did Penpusherman tell his cleaning lady, who obligingly relayed it on to the Guardian?

[buctootim]

How did this appear in the media then? Did Penpusherman tell his cleaning lady, who obligingly relayed it on to the Guardian?

 

 

err. Penpusherman represents Civil Servants who cannot speak directly to the media - ie he speaks on their behalf.

[shurlock]

err. Penpusherman represents Civil Servants who cannot speak directly to the media - ie he speaks on their behalf.

 

 

Les, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Johnny Bognor]

Oh look, a Guardian article, the fount of all veracity

 

 

 

How did this appear in the media then? Did Penpusherman tell his cleaning lady, who obligingly relayed it on to the Guardian?

 

He's just lining things up for a pay rise for his members, for increases in workloads and undue stress. He will probably dress it up as something to do with public safety... they usually do

Edited 29 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[shurlock]

He's just lining things up for a pay rise for his members, for increases in workloads and undue stress. He will probably dress it up as something to do with public safety... they usually do

 

Baldrick - you do realise that pay rises in the civil service have been capped at 1% a year.

Edited 29 December, 2016 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

err. Penpusherman represents Civil Servants who cannot speak directly to the media - ie he speaks on their behalf.

 

So we're supposed to believe that some union johnny relates verbatim to the Guardian what the senior Civil Servants think and then to believe further that they have not in turn put their usual lefty spin on it?

 

Do all of the members of that Senior Civil Servants union think the same, or only some of them? What percentage, or only those who voiced an opinion to Penpusherman?

[Johnny Bognor]

Baldrick - you do realise that pay rises in the civil service have been capped at 1% a year.

 

He's still lining up his ducks...