Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Verbal]

Just to reassure us that we're in good hands, the excellent Sam Coates, in The Times, gives a revealing insight into the quality of discussion on Brexit in cabinet.

 

Mrs May's summaries typically give little indication of future decision-making and usually involve a request for more information.

 

Boris Johnson...has so far said very little. He appears to be adopting an "I'm only going to care when it matters" approach

 

Liam Fox gives expansive updates on world even on "things that you wouldn't necessarily know".

 

Andrea Leadsom gets "quite irritated" when three people in a row say Brexit is quite difficult and "puts them right". ...Mrs Leadsom's contributions have been noted for repeated references to post natal depression and the importance of a child's first 1,000 days.

 

Brilliant. Cabinet debate by Brexiteers is just as cretinous as on here.

[Saint86]

The substantive point (per the previous page) is your claim that the EU is a dictatorship. Unsurprisingly you provided no evidence to that end. Rather blabbered something incoherent about the European Commission.

 

You do realise the European Commission cannot make or foist laws on member states?

That it can only make proposals which have to be agreed by the Council of the EU made up of ministers from national governments and Parliament?

That the powers the Commission does enjoy (notably in the monitoring and enforcement of EU laws) rest on treaties and laws decided by elected national governments?

That Commissioners are increasingly accountable to European Parliament/directly-elected MEPs?

That the European Council, another body made up of heads of state/national governments increasingly set the broad direction of EU policymaking?

That even under qualified majority voting the vast majority of EU legislative decisions have been voted for by the UK government (97.4% for 2004-09; 86.7% for 2009-15) presumably because they are beneficial to the UK -never mind that the most sensitive areas need to be agreed by unanimity?

That brexiters on here, you included, either because they are thick and/or hypocritical simultaneously criticise the EU for being too cumbersome given the need for consensus across member states because of that pesky thing called democracy?

 

The EU, like every living breathing political system, has weaknesses; acknowledging this does not prove that it is a dictatorship. Far from it. Thick **** is just about right.

 

Shurlock,

 

Has it sunk in that we are leaving yet? I can;t rightly understand this thread (about the proposed way forward), is still being spent filled by keyboard warriors hurling unsubstantiated facts around about why we should stay in the EU.

 

We voted, the country democratically voted to leave. We are leaving.

 

This thread is about "the way forward", not which way we should all vote in the referendum on june 23rd.... 2016....

[Saint86]

If that was anywhere close to being true then we would not be in the mess that we are today.

 

Using UK members of the European Parliament as a yardstick, we have 73 MEPs for a population of around 64 million.

 

Take our neighbours next door in Ireland, on that "democratic" basis the 4.5 million of them would have 5 MEPs. They actually have 11, so an Irishman gets 2 votes for every one of ours in Europe.

 

Lets be extreme, Malta by population using the UK benchmark, should have half an MEP. They have 6, so each Malteser gets 12 votes for every one of ours.

 

The conspiracy theorists might think that Jean-Claude Juncker was biased, being from Luxembourg an' all. But it really is perfectly rational for all 540,000 Luxemburgers to have 12 times as much voting power as the Brits, isn't it?

 

If it was anywhere even close to being democratic, we would still be in there sorting it out. The EU is built on precisely the same democratic principles as Blatter's FIFA. It's rotten to the core, and past saving.

 

Very interesting stats. Thank you to the brexit voters for getting us out of that system.

[shurlock]

Shurlock,

 

Has it sunk in that we are leaving yet? I can;t rightly understand this thread (about the proposed way forward), is still being spent filled by keyboard warriors hurling unsubstantiated facts around about why we should stay in the EU.

 

We voted, the country democratically voted to leave. We are leaving.

 

This thread is about "the way forward", not which way we should all vote in the referendum on june 23rd.... 2016....

 

Please tell me which facts I stated are unsubstantiated? Otherwise wind your neck in.

 

FWIW, Hutch's numbers are meaningless -if not disingenuous in isolation. But given your form on this thread, you don't know your **** from your elbow.

 

It was misguided missile who decided to revisit old ground, not me. A gormless claim was made that the EU is a dictatorship and it was duly challenged. Get off your high horse or take it up with him pal.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by shurlock

[buctootim]

Whatever system we use doesn't make the EU any more or less democratic.

 

If both systems are **** then no wonder people feel so disenfranchised with politics today.

 

But it does mean the EU is more democratic and more representative of its citizens than the current UK Government.

[Johnny Bognor]

But it does mean the EU is more democratic and more representative of its citizens than the current UK Government.

 

Whoahhhhh hang on a minute.

 

Let's take this referendum. A straight vote and the UK government are respecting the will of the people.

 

Now let's wind the clock back to the Dutch and French referenda on the EU constitution. The people of both countries soundly rejected it. So the EU changes a couple of paragraphs, dropped the word "constitution", which negated the need for further referenda and the Lisbon Constitution (see how i swapped constitution for treaty... hey if the EU can do it, so can I) went through without a much as a whimper.

 

Its totally scandalous how this was allowed to happen. Both the French and Dutch governments, in cahoots with the EU, showed blatant disregard for the will of the French and Dutch people, moving their own project forward. In fact, all of the components of the rejected EU constitution were attached to existing treaties and by dropping key words like "constitution", they went out of their way to avoid the need for any further referenda.

 

Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/valeacutery-giscard-destaing-the-eu-treaty-is-the-same-as-the-constitution-398286.html

 

So perhaps it's not that far off a dictatorship afterall.... you know... where leaders do what the **** they want... irrespective of the will of the people.

 

So whilst the new voting mechanism, which has only been in place for the last couple of years and still only covers 80% of legislation, is 'technically' more democratic than it was, lets not delude ourselves by thinking that the EU is some great beacon for democracy. Its mere existence as we now know it, was only thanks to deliberately avoiding the will of the people and bringing it through the back door. I will refer to it henceforth as the Lisbon con-stitution. Simply because it was a giant con trick.

 

Furthermore, you only have to look at the contempt shown by eurocrats, when the people dont agree with them. Remember the threats to the British people, who were to be "punished" for voting leave?? If I remember correctly, the only type of leaders that threaten to 'punish' their citizens are in fact dictators.

 

So whilst you and your pedigree bum chum may be technically correct in how the EU votes on legislation, it is blindingly obvious that the architects of the EU, as we now know it, are not only against democracy but are in fact scared of democracy.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[badgerx16]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38324146

 

"A post-Brexit UK-EU trade deal might take 10 years to finalise and still fail, Britain's ambassador to the EU has privately told the government.

The BBC understands Sir Ivan Rogers warned ministers that the European consensus was that a deal might not be done until the early to mid-2020s.

He also cautioned that an agreement could be rejected ultimately by other EU members' national parliaments."

[Verbal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38324146

 

"A post-Brexit UK-EU trade deal might take 10 years to finalise and still fail, Britain's ambassador to the EU has privately told the government.

The BBC understands Sir Ivan Rogers warned ministers that the European consensus was that a deal might not be done until the early to mid-2020s.

He also cautioned that an agreement could be rejected ultimately by other EU members' national parliaments."

 

So you'd think the May government would be doing some forward planning on this worst case scenario. But no. They continue with the 'have cake and eat it' fantasy, all while the constant message from the 27 is that any deal Britain gets, if it gets it, must be bad.

 

Just as Cameron refused to allow the civil service to plan for a Leave vote, May is refusing to allow the civil service to allow for the most likely non-outcome of negotiations. I'm amazed the Brexit loons are not hopping, but rather seem to be wandering blindly into a cul de sac where they'll find themselves kettled.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-deal-failure-gross-negligent-crispin-blunt-foreign-affairs-committee-a7476411.html

[aintforever]

It takes the EU 10 years to agree on the colour of the sky, news like that just makes me more certain we are doing the right thing.

 

Just go with hard Brexit ASAP, stop the EU direct debit and prepare for WTO rules because that's obviously what is going to happen.

[Verbal]

It takes the EU 10 years to agree on the colour of the sky, news like that just makes me more certain we are doing the right thing.

 

Just go with hard Brexit ASAP, stop the EU direct debit and prepare for WTO rules because that's obviously what is going to happen.

 

Calling shurlock to the Lounge. There's another doolally mess to clean up.

[aintforever]

Calling shurlock to the Lounge. There's another doolally mess to clean up.

 

**** me, a post where you don't mention Jews!

[Verbal]

**** me, a post where you don't mention Jews!

 

You seem rather 'sensitive' on the subject. What have you got against Jews? Do you collect 'memorabilia'?

[buctootim]

It takes the EU 10 years to agree on the colour of the sky, news like that just makes me more certain we are doing the right thing.

 

Just go with hard Brexit ASAP, stop the EU direct debit and prepare for WTO rules because that's obviously what is going to happen.

 

The Trans Pacific Partnership has taken eight years so far and will take at least another three to be ratified and enter in to force. Assuming Trump doesnt cancel it on day 1 and everyone is back to the start line.

 

11 years tsk. Makes the EU seem nimble. I guess the US, Australia, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore etc are all really inefficient bureaucrats - which is a shame because they are exactly the people Brexiteers have promised us we can have a wonderful warm future with - trade deals ready to go 2 years after triggering article 50.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Lloyd's Insurance moving out. Its all going swimmingly so far.

http://www.cityam.com/255686/lloyds-london-set-out-plans-eu-move-new-year

[Johnny Bognor]

Lloyd's Insurance moving out. Its all going swimmingly so far.

http://www.cityam.com/255686/lloyds-london-set-out-plans-eu-move-new-year

 

So they're not just making contingency plans to set up a subsidiary depending on how things pan out??? I must have misread the article..

[aintforever]

You seem rather 'sensitive' on the subject. What have you got against Jews? Do you collect 'memorabilia'?

 

You are the one with the obvious issues, I don't have time for any religion.

[badgerx16]

So they're not just making contingency plans to set up a subsidiary depending on how things pan out??? I must have misread the article..

 

'Earlier this year, Lloyd's boss John Nelson said London's status as a global insurance leader had been put at risk by the result of the EU referendum. He also said the company was looking into moving business out of the City, and warned: "It won't be Lloyd's losing out, it will be the UK."'

[Guided Missile]

Lloyd's Insurance moving out. Its all going swimmingly so far.

http://www.cityam.com/255686/lloyds-london-set-out-plans-eu-move-new-year

I really hope that Brexit will force much of the bloated financial services sector to relocate. Most of it is socially useless and has led to a casino based bubble of derivatives and miss-selling of insurance that has crushed the activities such as trade and manufacturing that made this country great. Easy, stupid money by over-educated barrow boys with short term ambitions and get rich quick ideals. How any socialist post- 2008 can shed a tear for this sector is beyond me.

 

We need a cull in the City that will hopefully lead to a collapse of house prices and a lower demand for exploited foreigners serving the spoiled brats their lattés....

F*** 'em...

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

No, I'm just being clever.

 

Well Ii cannot argue with that then!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Not sure what your point is pal. My point was directed at the claim that the EU is a dictatorship. For what's it worth you exhibit a basic misunderstanding of the powers of the European Commission -and how they relate to other institutions. Perhaps you would like to address the post in its entirety. But perhaps not given your pîśś poor effort at a response

 

Perhaps as somebody else pointed out I could have been eloquent in my reply!

 

I would point out that you cannot just look at the mechanics and processes of the EU and argue that it cannot be perceived as being dictatorial. Judge it on its actions. The one size fits all practice makes it dysfunctional and rigid and fosters a sense of dictatorship. The movement of people implemented against the will of many not least here gives a sense of the EU being dictatorial.

 

For more pronounced evidence of dictatorship you need to look at the EU's involvement in Greek and Italian domestic politics. The EU effectively appointed Mario Monti's 2011 government where the cabinet was exclusively unelected.

 

The Euro itself facilitates a sense of dictatorship enforcing perpetual austerity on many of its citizens. Previously a currency devaluation would have encouraged the green shoots of recovery. Donald Trump may make some unpalatable statements but he is right when it comes to Germany manipulating the value of the Euro to boost its own exports.

 

The EU's response to referendums also encourages a belief that its will is being forced upon its people. So to is the fact that there is no accountability in its budget distribution.

 

Dictatorship is a perception that is becoming the EU's biggest problem. It is encouraged by advocates of the EU like yourself who really need to work on their people skills.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I'm trying to figure out why you have written out 4 unconnected sentences, all unrelated to the topic being discussed of whether the EU is a dictatorship.

 

I can only apologise and have another go!

[buctootim]

Easy, stupid money by over-educated barrow boys with short term ambitions and get rich quick ideals.

 

Betrays your ignorance of insurance. Its got nothing to do with derivatives or trading, its the antithesis of that culture. As the old cliche goes "actuaries are people who find accountancy too exciting".

 

Britain is a leader in very very few fields globally, but financial services is one. I agree we are over dependent on the sector and there should be a long term cross party approach to widening the UK's income base. That is very different to kissing off a key industry with nothing to replace it.

[Guided Missile]

Betrays your ignorance of insurance. Its got nothing to do with derivatives or trading, its the antithesis of that culture. As the old cliche goes "actuaries are people who find accountancy too exciting".

I know enough about insurance to know that Lloyds is not an insurance company. It's basically a casino for the rich and more latterly corporations. Derivatives are basically the same. Risks that are packaged together and someone underwrites the risk for a reward.

I know I'm an ignorant c*** so that is the best I can do in the way of a three sentence summary. Feel free to correct me with your vast experience of how Lloyds works.

[Guided Missile]

Perhaps as somebody else pointed out I could have been eloquent in my reply!

 

I would point out that you cannot just look at the mechanics and processes of the EU and argue that it cannot be perceived as being dictatorial. Judge it on its actions. The one size fits all practice makes it dysfunctional and rigid and fosters a sense of dictatorship. The movement of people implemented against the will of many not least here gives a sense of the EU being dictatorial.

 

For more pronounced evidence of dictatorship you need to look at the EU's involvement in Greek and Italian domestic politics. The EU effectively appointed Mario Monti's 2011 government where the cabinet was exclusively unelected.

 

The Euro itself facilitates a sense of dictatorship enforcing perpetual austerity on many of its citizens. Previously a currency devaluation would have encouraged the green shoots of recovery. Donald Trump may make some unpalatable statements but he is right when it comes to Germany manipulating the value of the Euro to boost its own exports.

 

The EU's response to referendums also encourages a belief that its will is being forced upon its people. So to is the fact that there is no accountability in its budget distribution.

 

Dictatorship is a perception that is becoming the EU's biggest problem. It is encouraged by advocates of the EU like yourself who really need to work on their people skills.

Bravo....

[Jonnyboy]

I really hope that Brexit will force much of the bloated financial services sector to relocate. Most of it is socially useless and has led to a casino based bubble of derivatives and miss-selling of insurance that has crushed the activities such as trade and manufacturing that made this country great. Easy, stupid money by over-educated barrow boys with short term ambitions and get rich quick ideals. How any socialist post- 2008 can shed a tear for this sector is beyond me.

 

We need a cull in the City that will hopefully lead to a collapse of house prices and a lower demand for exploited foreigners serving the spoiled brats their lattés....

F*** 'em...

 

Cutting off the nose to spite the face? One thing most politicians agree on is that our national debt at the moment is dangerously high. Not sure how your policy of let them all f off to Europe will help.

Would be far better for the state to seize large sums of the capital of these multinationals by any means necessary. Then let house prices crash.

[Johnny Bognor]

'Earlier this year, Lloyd's boss John Nelson said London's status as a global insurance leader had been put at risk by the result of the EU referendum. He also said the company was looking into moving business out of the City, and warned: "It won't be Lloyd's losing out, it will be the UK."'

Read the rest of the article. The devil is in the detail. They're not quite packing up boxes yet...

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

Read the rest of the article. The devil is in the detail. They're not quite packing up boxes yet...

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Only because they are waiting to see what sort of fallout will occur when the true Brexit solution becomes clear.

[Guided Missile]

Would be far better for the state to seize large sums of the capital of these multinationals by any means necessary. Then let house prices crash.

What is needed is a Financial Transaction Tax.

 

Oh, hang on, the EU already proposed that and it was due to be introduced in September. All your mates in the City whined like b!tches. Chief b!tch was George Osborne, who said it would cost the City billions.

 

My guess is that any City firms opposed to Brexit will soon change their tune about moving to the Eurozone if the FTT is finally introduced by the EU as promised. A cut in UK corporation tax will be the last nail in the relocation coffin....

[Johnny Bognor]

Lloyd's Insurance moving out. Its all going swimmingly so far.

http://www.cityam.com/255686/lloyds-london-set-out-plans-eu-move-new-year

 

So they're not just making contingency plans to set up a subsidiary depending on how things pan out??? I must have misread the article..

 

'Earlier this year, Lloyd's boss John Nelson said London's status as a global insurance leader had been put at risk by the result of the EU referendum. He also said the company was looking into moving business out of the City, and warned: "It won't be Lloyd's losing out, it will be the UK."'

 

Read the rest of the article. The devil is in the detail. They're not quite packing up boxes yet..

 

Only because they are waiting to see what sort of fallout will occur when the true Brexit solution becomes clear.

 

Errrrrrr that's what I said. Thanks for confirming that I had interpreted the article correctly, unlike some on here lol

[moonraker]

Any news on the riots in Switzerland following their Governments undemocratic decision not to act on the will of people, but instead to act in the best long term interest of the country. Bloody politicians next they will be telling us lies, just to get us to vote for them. Still I am sure these arch eniemies of democracy will be wiped out at the next Swiss general election.

[buctootim]

Any news on the riots in Switzerland following their Governments undemocratic decision not to act on the will of people, but instead to act in the best long term interest of the country. Bloody politicians next they will be telling us lies, just to get us to vote for them. Still I am sure these arch eniemies of democracy will be wiped out at the next Swiss general election.

 

Last I heard the Lindt Easter Bunny had been lynched and the Swiss people were launching an invasion of the dictatorial 27 countries. After all they really, really, really 'want their freedom back', so they're bound to get it.

[Guided Missile]

Any news on the riots in Switzerland following their Governments undemocratic decision not to act on the will of people, but instead to act in the best long term interest of the country. Bloody politicians next they will be telling us lies, just to get us to vote for them. Still I am sure these arch eniemies of democracy will be wiped out at the next Swiss general election.

The Swiss, another beacon of democracy:

Swiss industry had close and lucrative ties with Nazi Germany during World War II, counting the leader of the Third Reich himself as a customer, a new report has revealed. The country's art dealers took in seized art from neighbouring Germany, and did business with both Adolf Hitler and his right-hand man, Hermann Goering, the report says. ​Meanwhile, Swiss businesses were making use of slave labour, mostly imported by the Nazis from eastern Europe, in their German subsidiary companies. The research was carried out by an independent commission led by Swiss historian Jean Francois Bergier, mandated by parliament to shed light on the country's past.

Furthermore. the Swiss and the Nazi regime

The Swiss bolstered the Nazi regime in many ways, ways that can be summarized by the following categories: border policies, opportunities for trade, and financial transactions. Behavior in all of these categories was either immoral or amoral, but Switzerland's closing of escape routes over its border is probably the most troubling. Because the Swiss feared that the appearance of "softness" with respect to its borders adjoining Nazi Germany would be an incentive for Hitler to attack (to undertake "Operation Tannenbaum"), they were highly vigilant in guarding against those attempting to cross those borders into Switzerland without the appropriate visas. The Swiss did establish a series of internment camps during the war to provide sanctuary for a precious few: 200,000 refugees of whom 20,000 were Jews.3 The Swiss Jewish community and other organizations were then charged a head tax to support them.4 Many others who were fleeing the Nazis were turned away by the Swiss -- 30,000 Jews in 1942 alone were denied entry.5 Very often, those who sought sanctuary were apprehended by Swiss authorities and then delivered either to the Germans themselves, or, in the case of refugees trying to enter Switzerland from France, to officials of the collaborationist Vichy government. Moreover, it was the Swiss, specifically the head of the Federal Justice and Police Department, Dr. Heinrich Rothmund, who suggested to the Reich in 1938 that German Jews have their passports stamped with a red letter J. Rothmund is also credited with coining the now-famous phrase, "the lifeboat is full."6 The tradition of Swiss asylum, then, was effectively undermined during this period.

Switzerland as an example of governance? Give us a break...

[Verbal]

My guess is that any City firms opposed to Brexit will soon change their tune about moving to the Eurozone if the FTT is finally introduced by the EU as promised. A cut in UK corporation tax will be the last nail in the relocation coffin....

 

Which is of course the usual nonsense, and in so many ways - for example city firms could have got much lower corporation tax elsewhere in the EU, if that were anywhere close to a priority. What matters is that London is a prime business location within the huge single market that is the EU, and not that it's a capital city subsidising a bunch of failing provinces.

 

There will be a succession of these kinds of 'we're off' announcements, but here's the latest, from the Japanese financial firms located in the City, who will start moving operations to inside the EU's post-Brexit borders within the next six months.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/cc085d38-c349-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856354

 

Admittedly, though, Japan was an Axis power seventy years ago, which presumably means we should put out the bunting and have demob parties when they leave.

[Jonnyboy]

What is needed is a Financial Transaction Tax.

 

Oh, hang on, the EU already proposed that and it was due to be introduced in September. All your mates in the City whined like b!tches. Chief b!tch was George Osborne, who said it would cost the City billions.

 

My guess is that any City firms opposed to Brexit will soon change their tune about moving to the Eurozone if the FTT is finally introduced by the EU as promised. A cut in UK corporation tax will be the last nail in the relocation coffin....

 

Say what now??

[moonraker]

The Swiss, another beacon of democracy:

 

Furthermore. the Swiss and the Nazi regime

 

Switzerland as an example of governance? Give us a break...

History interesting thought! British empire built on slavery, military power and complete disregard of ancient cultures. Switzerland not known for its imperial non democratic subjugation of others or indeed its involvement in war crimes. Are you one of those skates who think our owners got their wealth through NAZI connections? Or just a slightly xenophobic Brexiter?

[OldNick]

History interesting thought! British empire built on slavery, military power and complete disregard of ancient cultures. Switzerland not known for its imperial non democratic subjugation of others or indeed its involvement in war crimes. Are you one of those skates who think our owners got their wealth through NAZI connections? Or just a slightly xenophobic Brexiter?

Sorry on this one Im with GM, IMO the Swiss were complicit in hiding the gold and artefacts that were stolen by the Nazis, they also seem to be the keepers of much of the criminal worlds excesses in their numbered bank accounts. They have never been involved in major wars as the people at the top want somewhere to hold their funds free from inspection and so never were invaded. Goegraphically they should have been as they were in the political sphere of the Germans

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Switzerland is indeed a horrid cesspit of a nation. All that health, wealth, happiness and outstanding natural beauty - we certainly don't want any of that post Brexit Britain and no mistake!

[John B]

Sorry on this one Im with GM, IMO the Swiss were complicit in hiding the gold and artefacts that were stolen by the Nazis, they also seem to be the keepers of much of the criminal worlds excesses in their numbered bank accounts. They have never been involved in major wars as the people at the top want somewhere to hold their funds free from inspection and so never were invaded. Goegraphically they should have been as they were in the political sphere of the Germans

 

You mean unlike the British who pillaged and invaded half the world

[OldNick]

You mean unlike the British who pillaged and invaded half the world

, didnt say we hadnt, but I dont see Switzerland as a beacon of correctness.

[OldNick]

Switzerland is indeed a horrid cesspit of a nation. All that health, wealth, happiness and outstanding natural beauty - we certainly don't want any of that post Brexit Britain and no mistake!

health, wealth and happiness indeed, but at the expense of who?

[John B]

, didnt say we hadnt, but I dont see Switzerland as a beacon of correctness.

 

Really what have you heard

 

Just because there are some greedy unprincipled bastards in Switzerland does not mean that the population as a whole are unprincipled bastards.

 

Its like saying Austria is full of hysterical and attention seeking Saints Fans just because Alpine Saint is there

[buctootim]

health, wealth and happiness indeed, but at the expense of who?

 

Nobody? A neutral country which doesnt make a habit of going to war or invading people - unlike Britain.

[moonraker]

Based on the UN analysis, the happiest countries in the world are either: In the EU, 4 out of the top 10, members of EFTA and EEA with free movement of people in Europe, or ex British colonies, 3 out of the top ten, no longer subject to British Law. Impossible to draw any concrete conclusions from what is a subjective assessment but it seems either being in the EU or at least accepting it four basic principles, or divorcing yourself from Britain engenders greater happiness. Also interesting is that all of the EU accession countries have increasing levels of happiness, of EU countries only miserable France, the UK and Italy have falling levels.

[Guided Missile]

Based on the UN analysis, the happiest countries in the world are either: In the EU, 4 out of the top 10, members of EFTA and EEA with free movement of people in Europe, or ex British colonies, 3 out of the top ten, no longer subject to British Law.

I'm sure that my father and uncles were not that happy when they were drafted into the services, to help free Europe from the tyranny of the Germans in 1939, but they went to war willingly, unlike the Irish, Swedes and Swiss.

 

Watching the films of Armistice day parades in 1945 showed a pretty high degree of happiness throughout Europe. I must admit that the day of the Brexit victory I think I felt a little like that. Same tyranny, to be honest and the same tyrants.

 

Still, success in life does not always equate to happiness. Doing good is more important. I remember something I was told in China last year. When I asked my interpreter what was going on in North Korea, she said that although the country was a complete mess, the population was, on the whole, happy.....

[badgerx16]

I'm sure that my father and uncles were not that happy when they were drafted into the services, to help free Europe from the tyranny of the Germans in 1939, but they went to war willingly, unlike the Irish.....

Whilst their Government maintained an ostensibly neutral stance, about 100,000 Irish Republic citizens fought for the British armed forces in WW2, with nearly 5000 dead. Plus, there was a lot of less overt assistance from the Irish authorities relating to convoy routes and air transport / reconnaisance corridors, etc.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by badgerx16

[OldNick]

Nobody? A neutral country which doesnt make a habit of going to war or invading people - unlike Britain.

No doubt all the poor people who had their lifes possessions taken away and the gold and art deposited in the Swiss banks by the Nazi's. Oh yes claiming to be neutral has always stopped people invading you lol

[buctootim]

No doubt all the poor people who had their lifes possessions taken away and the gold and art deposited in the Swiss banks by the Nazi's. Oh yes claiming to be neutral has always stopped people invading you lol

Just so we're clear. At today's prices there was $1.5bn worth of Jewish families assets and $5bn of national gold reserves stolen - some $6.5bn in total. For context the PPI scandal has involved over $30bn so far.

 

You are claiming that the comparatively modest crime by the Swiss private banking system 70 years ago is a bigger deal than invading Egypt over a canal, overthrowing the democratically elected Government of Iran and imposing a dictator, invading Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, killing over 1 million locals and British soldiers and then leaving again with the countries in a bigger mess than before, and a bill for the US and Britain of $1.5 TRILLION? Go you.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by buctootim

[OldNick]

Just so we're clear. You are claiming some private banks who looked after some stolen assets over 70 years ago is a bigger crime than in the last 20 years invading Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, killing over 1 million locals and British soldiers and then leaving again with the countries in a bigger mess than before? Go you.a

So you qualify your side by saying private banks and then do a blanket we all did the killing. The Swiss people are just as complicet as Iam about the Afghanistan Iraq debacle. I never voted for Blair, it was him who started the ball rolling, I wonder if you voted for him and so have more blood on your hands than me.

Personally I am proud of our countries history, some was distasteful I do agree, but if it wasn't for our past none of us would have the lifestyle that we enjoy now, As much as you don't like the thought you are enjoying the fruits of the 300 years of the Empire and pirating our forefathers took part in

[aintforever]

Based on the UN analysis, the happiest countries in the world are either: In the EU, 4 out of the top 10, members of EFTA and EEA with free movement of people in Europe, or ex British colonies, 3 out of the top ten, no longer subject to British Law. Impossible to draw any concrete conclusions from what is a subjective assessment but it seems either being in the EU or at least accepting it four basic principles, or divorcing yourself from Britain engenders greater happiness. Also interesting is that all of the EU accession countries have increasing levels of happiness, of EU countries only miserable France, the UK and Italy have falling levels.

 

Happy/stupid - it's a fine line

[moonraker]

I'm sure that my father and uncles were not that happy when they were drafted into the services, to help free Europe from the tyranny of the Germans in 1939, but they went to war willingly, unlike the Irish, Swedes and Swiss.

 

Watching the films of Armistice day parades in 1945 showed a pretty high degree of happiness throughout Europe. I must admit that the day of the Brexit victory I think I felt a little like that. Same tyranny, to be honest and the same tyrants.

 

Still, success in life does not always equate to happiness. Doing good is more important. I remember something I was told in China last year. When I asked my interpreter what was going on in North Korea, she said that although the country was a complete mess, the population was, on the whole, happy.....

 

What don't you understand about neutrality? My father, an air gunner, thinks the EU is exactly what he fought for, a joined up peaceful Europe.