Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Johnny Bognor]

Most people disapprove of any economic system that doesn't result in them being fabulously wealthy

 

 

Or indeed unemployed, as most youngsters in southern Europe are. But hey, **** 'em. They're only the future.

[aintforever]

More rumours are emerging from Brussels this morning that the UK may (I say may) ultimately end up with something resembling the 'Norwegian Model' of semi-detached relationship with the EU. If that comes to pass then we would probably still have to pay in to EU coffers, but be without any real say about how the money is spent. We might have some degree of access to the EU Single Market, without having our voice heard when it comes to administering it. Even the cherished eurosceptic dream of complete national control of immigration policy is likely to prove an illusion.

 

We've been sold a pig in a poke.

 

Can't see that happening. The chances of all of the EU states agreeing to anything that seems like a half decent deal for the UK seems pretty remote. Impossible if we have to show our hand in Parliament before the cards are even dealt.

 

It's going to be hard Brexit and to be honest, the more I hear from Brussels the more I think that is the best deal. All these people are interested in is their project/gravy train - they show little concern about what the actual people of Europe want and its just a matter of time before the truth catches up with them.

[shurlock]

More rumours are emerging from Brussels this morning that the UK may (I say may) ultimately end up with something resembling the 'Norwegian Model' of semi-detached relationship with the EU. If that comes to pass then we would probably still have to pay in to EU coffers, but be without any real say about how the money is spent. We might have some degree of access to the EU Single Market, without having our voice heard when it comes to administering it. Even the cherished eurosceptic dream of complete national control of immigration policy is likely to prove an illusion.

 

We've been sold a pig in a poke.

 

All of which is consistent with leaving the EU.

 

That's what people voted for, isn't it?

[badgerx16]

What a load of waffling drivel.

 

Pot meets kettle.

[badgerx16]

I wonder what the Remain campaign said about a second vote, or parliament having a say.

 

 

 

But he also said he wouldn't resign if the referendum went against him.

[Kingsland Codger]

All of which is consistent with leaving the EU.

 

That's what people voted for, isn't it?

 

I very much doubt if the electorate voted to carry on paying money to Brussels. After all, that £350million per week it apparently cost us to be an EU member is specifically earmarked for the NHS.

[Verbal]

Brexiters at their finest...

 

The wholly admirable Gina Miller, the lead claimant in the Article 50 case currently being argued in the Supreme Court, has had a torrent of abuse of Brexit fanatics, including threats of acid attacks and death, along with - of course - a great deal of racist/misogynistic yelling and screaming aimed at her criminal stance of being non-white and non-male.

 

She makes a telling point too about having to do what should have been done by the now terminally incompetent Labour party, buried under the worst, and dimmest, leadership in its history.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/11/bigger-just-brexit-how-gina-miller-held-government-account-over-eu

[badgerx16]

Brexiters at their finest...

 

The wholly admirable Gina Miller, the lead claimant in the Article 50 case currently being argued in the Supreme Court, has had a torrent of abuse of Brexit fanatics, including threats of acid attacks and death, along with - of course - a great deal of racist/misogynistic yelling and screaming aimed at her criminal stance of being non-white and non-male.

 

She makes a telling point too about having to do what should have been done by the now terminally incompetent Labour party, buried under the worst, and dimmest, leadership in its history.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/11/bigger-just-brexit-how-gina-miller-held-government-account-over-eu

 

And on the Andrew Marr show she got Farage to concede that the referendum was only advisory.

[aintforever]

Is there any point in that court case? Our MPs have just voted in favour of starting Brexit in March with a massive majority siding with the will of the British people.

[badgerx16]

Is there any point in that court case? Our MPs have just voted in favour of starting Brexit in March with a massive majority siding with the will of the British people.

 

 

From the BBC ;

"

Yes - the numbers tonight suggest not very many MPs will actually try to block Brexit, or frustrate the process. They will certainly try to push the government for more details. They will certainly try to amend the proposals that eventually make it to the Commons, whenever that is. That could disrupt and delay things, but trying to stop it happening is not on the agenda of the vast majority.

But what's equally clear is that Theresa may does not have a secure majority on the EU. As soon as her plans (eventually) hit the floor of the House, she's likely to have to compromise.

That is precisely why the government is fighting so hard just across the road in the Supreme Court to try to avoid MPs having a say before the really hard work in Brussels even begins."

[aintforever]

From the BBC ;

"

Yes - the numbers tonight suggest not very many MPs will actually try to block Brexit, or frustrate the process. They will certainly try to push the government for more details. They will certainly try to amend the proposals that eventually make it to the Commons, whenever that is. That could disrupt and delay things, but trying to stop it happening is not on the agenda of the vast majority.

But what's equally clear is that Theresa may does not have a secure majority on the EU. As soon as her plans (eventually) hit the floor of the House, she's likely to have to compromise.

That is precisely why the government is fighting so hard just across the road in the Supreme Court to try to avoid MPs having a say before the really hard work in Brussels even begins."

 

But surely Mays plans are irrelivant anyway because until article 50 is actioned we will not be able to negotiate so will not know what sort of deal we will get. May can just submit "we want control of immigration and be part of the single market" it gets approved and two years down the line we are out the EU with some other sort of deal. As far as I know article 50 is irreversible.

 

So am I correct in thinking the following will probably happen:

 

Step 1: May releases details of her plan "We have our cake and eat it"

Step 2: Parliament discusses the plan - article 50 approved because "We have our cake and eat it" sounds like a good plan.

Step 3: March 2017 - We invoke article 50 - we have left the EU

Step 4: Negotiations begin - Eu say we can't have our cake and eat it - they have been watching our Parliament discuss it and know exactly what sort of ****ty deal they can get away with.

Step 5: March 2019 - We start life outside the EU with a deal that doesn't resemble having a cake and eating it (WTO rules) meaning Step 1 and 2 is pointless and counter-productive.

Edited 8 December, 2016 by aintforever

[Portugalsaint]

More rumours are emerging from Brussels this morning that the UK may (I say may) ultimately end up with something resembling the 'Norwegian Model' of semi-detached relationship with the EU. If that comes to pass then we would probably still have to pay in to EU coffers, but be without any real say about how the money is spent. We might have some degree of access to the EU Single Market, without having our voice heard when it comes to administering it. Even the cherished eurosceptic dream of complete national control of immigration policy is likely to prove an illusion.

 

We've been sold a pig in a poke.

 

No we have not, the EU will in turn have to pay to trade with the UK a country of 60million. The press in the U.K. Keep forgetting to mention this fact so, it works both ways. The Germans have gone very quiet on this subject whereas the French are vocal and doing their usual foot stomping. The French have elections next year and by the looks of France and the French themselves, they have had enough as well of their weak President.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

No we have not, the EU will in turn have to pay to trade with the UK a country of 60million. The press in the U.K. Keep forgetting to mention this fact so, it works both ways. The Germans have gone very quiet on this subject whereas the French are vocal and doing their usual foot stomping. The French have elections next year and by the looks of France and the French themselves, they have had enough as well of their weak President.

 

Yeah this is another rehash of old Bretix pre-referendum propaganda that has become known in Westminster recently as the 'have our cake and eat it' argument. That was always utter garbage of course and I observe that many hard-line euro sceptics have now abandoned the notion. Trade with the UK is clearly important to many continental nations - but not so critically important methinks that their leaders would be prepared to drive a 'coach & horses' through every principle that the EU and its Single Market stands for. That really would be the end of the EU would it not?

 

It seems to me that if you decide to walk out of any club, then you also walk away from both the obligations, and the incumbent privileges, that membership once brought you. This is clearly a somewhat difficult idea for some to take on board, but when you think about it's really is not all that complicated a reality to grasp.

[Verbal]

Interesting to note from this that ministers are insisting that they are brought only good news on Brexit. No wonder they're always dribbling on about 'having cake and eating it.' Here's the reality they refuse to face:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought

 

Meanwhile, the companies who can't tell ministers that Brexit will be a disaster are busy doing what you'd expect companies to do. In the City, for example, an exodus is well under way, and has reached due diligence stage, with many in advanced planning to move substantial operations to Paris.

 

Bang goes a big chunk of the UK's tax base.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38245646

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Charlie on a totally different subject, why have you Sir Hugh Dowding as your avatar?

 

Hi Nick. The more I've read about the man over time, the more impressed I've become with him. It's not just a matter of his leadership of Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain, few remember these days that he also played a highly significant role in preparing the RAF for war with Nazi Germany years before the conflict actually started. Opinions differ as to whether he was badly treated or not after the battle ended, but what is in no doubt is that his personal contribution to this nation's war effort was an outstanding one. I should add here that there is also something wonderfully understated and endearingly 'British' about his personality that also appeals to me in a strange way.

 

At my age I'm far too old and cynical to believe much in the concept of 'hero-worship' any more - they've all got feet of clay alas. But if I have to maintain just one hero in my life then good old Stuffy will do for me, God bless him.

Edited 8 December, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Plastic]

Yeah this is another rehash of old Bretix pre-referendum propaganda that has become known in Westminster recently as the 'have our cake and eat it' argument. That was always utter garbage of course and I observe that many hard-line euro sceptics have now abandoned the notion. Trade with the UK is clearly important to many continental nations - but not so critically important methinks that their leaders would be prepared to drive a 'coach & horses' through every principle that the EU and its Single Market stands for. That really would be the end of the EU would it not?

 

It seems to me that if you decide to walk out of any club, then you also walk away from both the obligations, and the incumbent privileges, that membership once brought you. This is clearly a somewhat difficult idea for some to take on board, but when you think about it's really is not all that complicated a reality to grasp.

 

An Italian minister described his meeting with Boris during an interview on the Today program...

 

Boris "we want a free trade deal with the EU after we exit the EU"

Italian minister "No"

Boris: "Ok, well you will sell less Prosecco"

Italian minister "Fine, you will sell less Fish & Chips. But we will sell less Prosecco to 1 country, you will sell less Fish & Chips to 27 countries."

[moonraker]

The Guardian article (left wing nonsense to hard nosed Brexiteers) clearly demonstrates that voting to leave the EU is not as simple as Brexit means Brexit. I have yet to read or hear from any Brexiteer how they are going to achieve an exit from the EU and all its associated commitments and obligations in a time frame that the majority of the electorate will a. be satisfied with and b. support come what may. Once the penny drops and majority of the electorate realise just how damaging this Tory Party folly is they can say goodbye to electoral success at the next election, even with Corbyn in charge Labour. All that has been achieved is to create even greater division in the country and in the minds of those who advocate it give undeserved legitimacy to abhorrent far right politics.

[Guided Missile]

An Italian minister described his meeting with Boris during an interview on the Today program...

 

Boris "we want a free trade deal with the EU after we exit the EU"

Italian minister "No"

Boris: "Ok, well you will sell less Prosecco"

Italian minister "Fine, you will sell less Fish & Chips. But we will sell less Prosecco to 1 country, you will sell less Fish & Chips to 27 countries."

Let's see what the Italian minister says when they exit the euro and go back to the lire and the Italian banking sector collapses. Like most of the southern countries, they dart out from behind Frau Merkel's dress and poke their tongues out every so often and get a pat on the head from her. The Italians are screwed...

[Wes Tender]

An Italian minister described his meeting with Boris during an interview on the Today program...

 

Boris "we want a free trade deal with the EU after we exit the EU"

Italian minister "No"

Boris: "Ok, well you will sell less Prosecco"

Italian minister "Fine, you will sell less Fish & Chips. But we will sell less Prosecco to 1 country, you will sell less Fish & Chips to 27 countries."

 

I'm sure that it will be possible to find figures to determine how much Prosecco we import from Italy, but could you kindly produce statistics on how much Fish and Chips we export to EU member states? Until I have these figures, it will not be possible to determine what a catastrophic effect it will have on our economy and our GDP. I wasn't that aware of the importance of our Fish and Chip exports and wonder whether our main Chip competitors in particular wouldn't welcome our departure from the EU so that their home grown producers could benefit as a result. In particular, the Belgians, French and Italians are noted for their chips/frites/French Fries/patati fritti, so we need to know how our export of chips has affected them. No doubt their higher unemployment rates have in part been caused by this situation.

[Verbal]

I'm sure that it will be possible to find figures to determine how much Prosecco we import from Italy, but could you kindly produce statistics on how much Fish and Chips we export to EU member states? Until I have these figures, it will not be possible to determine what a catastrophic effect it will have on our economy and our GDP. I wasn't that aware of the importance of our Fish and Chip exports and wonder whether our main Chip competitors in particular wouldn't welcome our departure from the EU so that their home grown producers could benefit as a result. In particular, the Belgians, French and Italians are noted for their chips/frites/French Fries/patati fritti, so we need to know how our export of chips has affected them. No doubt their higher unemployment rates have in part been caused by this situation.

 

Which reminds me - I've heard more sense from Talibs talking about the 72 virgins after martyrdom than Brexiters refusing to be deflected, whatever the cost, from their 'sunny uplands' equivalent.

[Plastic]

I'm sure that it will be possible to find figures to determine how much Prosecco we import from Italy, but could you kindly produce statistics on how much Fish and Chips we export to EU member states? Until I have these figures, it will not be possible to determine what a catastrophic effect it will have on our economy and our GDP. I wasn't that aware of the importance of our Fish and Chip exports and wonder whether our main Chip competitors in particular wouldn't welcome our departure from the EU so that their home grown producers could benefit as a result. In particular, the Belgians, French and Italians are noted for their chips/frites/French Fries/patati fritti, so we need to know how our export of chips has affected them. No doubt their higher unemployment rates have in part been caused by this situation.

 

I took you for an intelligent individual, sadly I now see that I was mistaken. Johnson was making a facetious comment based upon a single commodity, which he used as a catch-all for Italian exports, the 'fish and chips' retort was equally facetious, feel free to replace it with any UK export commodity you can think of.

Edited 8 December, 2016 by Plastic

[Wes Tender]

The Guardian article (left wing nonsense to hard nosed Brexiteers) clearly demonstrates that voting to leave the EU is not as simple as Brexit means Brexit. I have yet to read or hear from any Brexiteer how they are going to achieve an exit from the EU and all its associated commitments and obligations in a time frame that the majority of the electorate will a. be satisfied with and b. support come what may. Once the penny drops and majority of the electorate realise just how damaging this Tory Party folly is they can say goodbye to electoral success at the next election, even with Corbyn in charge Labour. All that has been achieved is to create even greater division in the country and in the minds of those who advocate it give undeserved legitimacy to abhorrent far right politics.

 

If you read the Guardian, the Times and the Not Independent, then naturally you will mainly see the sort of doom and gloom scenarios that you lap up, because their readership is comprised of Remainian Europhiles, you know, the ones responsible for project fear.

 

Despite attempts recently by publications like those, and some MPs to infer that most who voted to leave the EU didn't realise that it also meant leaving the single market, most voters were perfectly well aware of this. Most also take the view that once Article 50 is triggered before the end of March, there will be time enough to negotiate much of our future relationship with the EU and if we have not agreed access to the single market on acceptable terms, then so bit it. Instead of us having our cake and eating it, that is the EU cutting off its nose to spite its face scenario. Two years is also plenty of time for events in other EU member states to totally change their political landscape too, probably to our benefit. The Euro might collapse before then and elections might throw up other Countries offering referenda on their membership.

 

Great news, but not unexpected, that there was a massive vote for Article 50 to be triggered by next March. As a Conservative, I would relish an election either before 2020, or at the appointed time. There is no way that Labour would win it, much as that must irk you. There is significant support for Brexit in many Labour heartlands and UKIP seek to steal votes from them if they attempt to scupper it. Labour are very much between a rock and hard place

[Wes Tender]

I took you for an intelligent individual - sadly now see that I was mistaken. Johnson was making a factious comment based upon a single commodity, which he used as a catch-all for Italian exports, the 'fish and chips' retort was equally factious, feel free to replace it with any UK export commodity you can think of.

 

Whoosh! So you took my response to be serious? Apologies if you require a to help you. I'll make allowances nest time.

[saint si]

Do you believe that less than 3.5% of leave voters want to stay in the single market?

 

Or in other words, you believe that 96.5%+ of leave voters unquestionably want "Hard Brexit" ?

[Plastic]

Whoosh! So you took my response to be serious? Apologies if you require a to help you. I'll make allowances nest time.

Whoosh indeed, excellent joke!!!!

I thought you were being serious, so yes please do add smilies when you do a funny.

[Johnny Bognor]

Do you believe that less than 3.5% of leave voters want to stay in the single market?

 

Or in other words, you believe that 96.5%+ of leave voters unquestionably want "Hard Brexit" ?

 

I think a distinction needs to be made between what people would want and what they are prepared to accept.

 

I think most people would want unfettered access to the Single Market, but some are not prepared to accept what goes with that.

 

I personally would want to have my cake and eat, who wouldn't? But I would be prepared to accept a Clean Brexit. That, I think, would be the starting position of a UK govt. It's then over to the europeans...

Edited 8 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[moonraker]

If you read the Guardian, the Times and the Not Independent, then naturally you will mainly see the sort of doom and gloom scenarios that you lap up, because their readership is comprised of Remainian Europhiles, you know, the ones responsible for project fear.

 

Despite attempts recently by publications like those, and some MPs to infer that most who voted to leave the EU didn't realise that it also meant leaving the single market, most voters were perfectly well aware of this. Most also take the view that once Article 50 is triggered before the end of March, there will be time enough to negotiate much of our future relationship with the EU and if we have not agreed access to the single market on acceptable terms, then so bit it. Instead of us having our cake and eating it, that is the EU cutting off its nose to spite its face scenario. Two years is also plenty of time for events in other EU member states to totally change their political landscape too, probably to our benefit. The Euro might collapse before then and elections might throw up other Countries offering referenda on their membership.

 

Great news, but not unexpected, that there was a massive vote for Article 50 to be triggered by next March. As a Conservative, I would relish an election either before 2020, or at the appointed time. There is no way that Labour would win it, much as that must irk you. There is significant support for Brexit in many Labour heartlands and UKIP seek to steal votes from them if they attempt to scupper it. Labour are very much between a rock and hard place

 

As opposed to the 2nd rate distorted, lying journalism one finds in the Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun etc. You have as usual totally failed to address the very genuine points made in the article, instead you continue be dismissive of the challenge and bask in the glory of a nothing vote in parliament. The thought of Corbyn as our PM terrifies me but to dismiss a labour victory if May and her Brexiteers cock up is not only arrogant but contrary to recent outcomes in the referendum and the US where the seemingly impossible happened. I am not as convinced as you that UKIP can pick up the tactical votes of sufficient centre, left of centre and left wing voters to have any impact. First they need to get their party back on an even course and then hope there are enough easily swayed tactical voters to support them. Still if we get a left wing Corbyn government at least you right wing Europhile Tories will be able to move abroad, oh wait a minute!

[Wes Tender]

As opposed to the 2nd rate distorted, lying journalism one finds in the Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun etc. You have as usual totally failed to address the very genuine points made in the article, instead you continue be dismissive of the challenge and bask in the glory of a nothing vote in parliament. The thought of Corbyn as our PM terrifies me but to dismiss a labour victory if May and her Brexiteers cock up is not only arrogant but contrary to recent outcomes in the referendum and the US where the seemingly impossible happened. I am not as convinced as you that UKIP can pick up the tactical votes of sufficient centre, left of centre and left wing voters to have any impact. First they need to get their party back on an even course and then hope there are enough easily swayed tactical voters to support them. Still if we get a left wing Corbyn government at least you right wing Europhile Tories will be able to move abroad, oh wait a minute!

 

The Telegraph is my newspaper of choice. But it isn't a matter of distorted or lying journalism where the discussion is about future prospects; it is about speculation and conjecture. These "genuine" points in that article are also in that vein, so excuse me if I cast a rather jaundiced eye over them, trite as most of them are.

 

It doesn't surprise me at all that you consider the vote in Parliament as trivial, as many believe that it was a bit of a political master stroke.

 

But debating about what will happen in a couple of years time is rather futile, so instead of guessing what might happen, why don't we all wait and see? As I say, many circumstances might change elsewhere in the EU before then, but one hopes that Labour will still be led by Corbyn.

 

In your last sentence, did you mean Europhobe? There was only one Europhile Conservative in that vote, the dinosaur Ken Clarke.

[adrian lord]

The referendum advises the executive to exercise royal prerogative accordingly NOT to advise the legislature to consider it afresh

 

 

and just check out this fantastic speech by Jacob Rees Mogg:

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shurlock]

The referendum advises the executive to exercise royal prerogative accordingly NOT to advise the legislature to consider it afresh

 

 

and just check out this fantastic speech by Jacob Rees Mogg:

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Jacob Rees Mogg who thinks Indian safety standards are good enough for the UK.

 

As ever, the joke is at the plebs expense.

[shurlock]

The Telegraph is my newspaper of choice. But it isn't a matter of distorted or lying journalism where the discussion is about future prospects; it is about speculation and conjecture. These "genuine" points in that article are also in that vein, so excuse me if I cast a rather jaundiced eye over them, trite as most of them are.

 

It doesn't surprise me at all that you consider the vote in Parliament as trivial, as many believe that it was a bit of a political master stroke.

 

But debating about what will happen in a couple of years time is rather futile, so instead of guessing what might happen, why don't we all wait and see? As I say, many circumstances might change elsewhere in the EU before then, but one hopes that Labour will still be led by Corbyn.

 

In your last sentence, did you mean Europhobe? There was only one Europhile Conservative in that vote, the dinosaur Ken Clarke.

 

No Les: some of the points are factual statements. You may disagree with the way they've been interpreted; but if so, be explicit and state your reasons rather than hide behind your favourite smoke-and-mirrors tactic of claiming its all 'conjecture and speculation', unworthy of a response. Don't be scared pal

Edited 8 December, 2016 by shurlock

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

No Les: some of the points are factual statements. You may disagree with the way they've been interpreted; but if so, be explicit and state your reasons rather than hide behind your favourite smoke-and-mirrors tactic of claiming its all 'conjecture and speculation', unworthy of a response. Don't be scared pal

 

To be fair he has just resigned from the thread stating (apparently) that there will be nothing worthwhile to say about Bretix for the next couple of years. So give him the old fella a break as he has certainly done his best to entertain many on here over the past year or so. I for one will miss his razor sharp wit and peerless objectivity no end ....

[badgerx16]

The referendum advises the executive to exercise royal prerogative accordingly NOT to advise the legislature to consider it afresh

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-senior-conservative-mps-seize-on-a-forgotten-government-pledge-to-let-parliament-decide-the-a7366316.html

"....in October 2010, David Cameron’s Government stated exactly the opposite in a little-noticed response to an inquiry by a House of Lords committee. That inquiry concluded that 'because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory'”.

 

"“Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result.”"

[buctootim]

Jacob Rees Mogg who thinks Indian safety standards are good enough for the UK.

 

As ever, the joke is at the plebs expense.

 

I used to work with / for his Dad. Quote "yes, Jacob has rather a lot to learn"

[buctootim]

In your last sentence, did you mean Europhobe? There was only one Europhile Conservative in that vote, the dinosaur Ken Clarke.

 

European Conservatives and Reformists Group

Conservative Group for Europe.

Tory Reform Group

[Wes Tender]

The boy Minor Fart is very quiet today. The Lib Dumb revival appears to have hit a brick wall at Sleaford.

[adrian lord]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-senior-conservative-mps-seize-on-a-forgotten-government-pledge-to-let-parliament-decide-the-a7366316.html

"....in October 2010, David Cameron’s Government stated exactly the opposite in a little-noticed response to an inquiry by a House of Lords committee. That inquiry concluded that 'because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory'”.

 

"“Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result.”"

 

Mrs May and her Government disagree, which is precisely what the Supreme Court Appeal is about.

[Plastic]

A glimmer of hope for those of us still keen on working or living within the EU...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

The proposal could potentially give Brits who live and work across borders a workaround to the disruption caused by the Leave vote – and young people looking to flee an increasingly isolated UK greater choice over where to move to.

[CB Fry]

A glimmer of hope for those of us still keen on working or living within the EU...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

I'd sign me and my two girls up to this in a heartbeat. It'll be like a continental version of a National Trust membership card. Fingers crossed you get a car sticker with it as well.

[Johnny Bognor]

A glimmer of hope for those of us still keen on working or living within the EU...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

 

I lived in Madrid as a child and Paris during my teens as my Dad worked all over Europe. I went to the British School of Paris in the early 80's. Didn't need the EU to do that back then, so it shouldn't stop you going forward.

 

Anyway, I hear there's loads of jobs going in Spain, Greece and Italy, especially if you're young. Just to feel truly connected to the Europeans, I suggest putting your life savings in Monte dei Paschi, as there's probably not a safer bank right now.

Edited 9 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Plastic]

I lived in Madrid as a child and Paris during my teens as my Dad worked all over Europe. I went to the British School of Paris in the early 80's. Didn't need the EU to do that back then, so it shouldn't stop you going forward.

 

Anyway, I hear there's loads of jobs going in Spain, Greece and Italy, especially if you're young. Just to feel truly connected to the Europeans, I suggest putting your life savings in Monte dei Paschi, as there's probably not a safer bank right now.

 

We have an office in Barcelona and employ a few young people there. It's a great market and salary demands are significantly lower than the U.K for equivalent skills.

Also thanks for displaying your European credentials, perhaps you truly are the renaissance man you believe yourself to be

[shurlock]

We have an office in Barcelona and employ a few young people there. It's a great market and salary demands are significantly lower than the U.K for equivalent skills.

Also thanks for displaying your European credentials, perhaps you truly are the renaissance man you believe yourself to be

 

[Winnersaint]

I've been citizen of the EU in its various incarnations for over 40 years and I very much want to remain as one in the future. Sign me up!

[badgerx16]

Mrs May and her Government disagree, which is precisely what the Supreme Court Appeal is about.

 

Didn't Mrs May support remaining in the EU ?

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Lib Dumb revival appears to have hit a brick wall at Sleaford.

 

Strange,a remain seat votes for a remain candidate and the BBC are wetting their pants with excitement . Timmy Farron is all over the news calling it a Brexit "backlash". Yet when a leave seat votes in a leave candidate, nothing,not a thing. Where is Timmy? I thought he'd be celebrating the 106 extra voters he got, only another 1.2 million to go Timmy.

[Verbal]

For grown-ups, this is an excellent commentary on the Article 50 case before the supreme court:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/83965752-f008-39e0-a039-48a43c508266

 

Green makes a good point about the myth of the unwritten constitution, and its bearing on the case - as well as about the actual stakes in the outcome, rather than those paraded on the front page of the Daily Mail.

[Wes Tender]

Strange,a remain seat votes for a remain candidate and the BBC are wetting their pants with excitement . Timmy Farron is all over the news calling it a Brexit "backlash". Yet when a leave seat votes in a leave candidate, nothing,not a thing. Where is Timmy? I thought he'd be celebrating the 106 extra voters he got, only another 1.2 million to go Timmy.

 

What was also noteworthy about the Lib Dumb vote on the motion committing to the triggering of Article 50 by March, was the fact that despite Minor Fart trying to make them the Party opposing Brexit, one third of their MPs rebelled and voted for the motion. I would hazard a guess that they were the three MPs whose constituencies showed a majority vote to leave the EU. Several Labour MPs representing constituencies who voted to leave and who voted against the motion, have had their names published for the guidance of their constituents come the next general election, unless they can campaign to have them deselected beforehand.

[Guided Missile]

NIALL FERGUSON

December 11 2016, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Sorry, I was wrong to fight Brexit to keep my friends in No 10 and No 11

 

I was wrong. I was wrong to argue against Brexit, as I admitted in public last week. By this I do not mean to say “I wish I had backed the winning side”. Rather, I mean “I wish I had stuck to my principles”.

 

Read all about it here....

 

The climb down starts and will soon be a stampede.

[adrian lord]

Didn't Mrs May support remaining in the EU ?

 

Both of us know perfectly well what we are talking about. She is leading us out of the Tower of Babel now, whatever her pre-ref campaigning position.

[badgerx16]

She is leading us out of the Tower of Babel now.......

 

As far as I can see, at present we are stumbling around in the dark, desperate for ideas, and without a clue as to what Brexit will ultimately look like.