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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

220 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 17/09/2024 at 17:30, badgerx16 said:

The National Farmers' Union supported Remain. Not all land is owned by the farmers working it.

Maybe not, but they are still farmers just the same. Perhaps it was just an East Kent thing, but the local farmers were very supportive of leave.

Interesting article here.

https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/challenging-the-myth-that-farmers-voted-for-brexit-and-therefore-deserve-whats-coming-to-them/

More…

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmer-support-brexit-strong-ever-fw-poll-reveals

Edited by sadoldgit
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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Danbert said:

Brexit deal impact in UK is worsening, warn economists

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd988p00z1no.amp

Shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody, frictionless trade was as much an outright lie as the £350m a week for the NHS, oven ready deals and having control of borders. All driven by the party of free trade and enterprise (and if anyone still believes that, they’ll think they’ve also won the Nigerian lottery from what’s in their junk mail).

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Danbert said:

Brexit deal impact in UK is worsening, warn economists

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd988p00z1no.amp

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ;) ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

Screenshot_20240929-232220.png

 

Sweden-Climate-Protest-4_1691286303521_1691286329824.jpg

Edited by trousers
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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ;) ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

Screenshot_20240929-232220.png

 

Sweden-Climate-Protest-4_1691286303521_1691286329824.jpg

It depends what the 32% reduction is in. It may well not be in consumables as people tend to assume but rather building materials and supplies which when you factor in supply chain delays from the pandemic 😷 additionally has had a devastating impact on both large building projects and domestic ones eg renovation. It’s impacted us twice over - we had to withdraw from buying a new property as the regional firm couldn’t get it built and we’d have lost our own buyer and then on the doer-upper on a larger plot we bought instead the cost of materials went through the roof (pun partially intended).

Also, on the imports we do receive, more is coming from outside the EU than before which means more miles travelled because of needless duties which is environmentally worse. On both imports and exports, the uncertainty is not helping smaller businesses doing reasonably well who’d like to expand either. 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ;) ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

Screenshot_20240929-232220.png

 

Sweden-Climate-Protest-4_1691286303521_1691286329824.jpg

Trade switching from the EU to other overseas markets, import and export, results in more 'food miles'.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ;) ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

Screenshot_20240929-232220.png

 

Sweden-Climate-Protest-4_1691286303521_1691286329824.jpg

Both are down to the paperwork and associated costs. Notice how the supermarkets dont have so many products and shelves empty. Some may be down to trying to save waste but a lot is to do with foreign companies not wanting their goods rotting at the border while waiting for the paperwork etc to be done. 

 

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Cant say I have 😅

I definitely have. The large Tesco I use most often is continually running out of stock with the staff  saying "we haven't been able to get that for days / week / weeks" delete as app. There are also often gaps in supply - when the season for one supplier ends it seems like they arent able to source another. Not only perisihables either, they didnt even have salt for three weeks apart from pink salt crystals.   

Edited by buctootim
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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I definitely have. The large Tesco I use most often is continually running out of stock with the staff  saying "we haven't been able to get that for days / week / weeks" delete as app. There are also often gaps in supply - when the season for one supplier ends it seems like they arent able to source another. Not only perisihables either, they didnt even have salt for three weeks apart from pink salt crystals.   

Yes, same here and really been like this since the pandemic.  No idea if it's because of brexit or just general supply issues but definitely seem to run out quicker and replace slower.

On that subject, crisps.  The range of crisps now is rubbish and the packets are getting smaller too.  On it's own it's not much but taken together with everything else, it's a clear sign of decline and I don't like it.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Yes, same here and really been like this since the pandemic.  No idea if it's because of brexit or just general supply issues but definitely seem to run out quicker and replace slower.

On that subject, crisps.  The range of crisps now is rubbish and the packets are getting smaller too.  On it's own it's not much but taken together with everything else, it's a clear sign of decline and I don't like it.

Don't get me on chocolate bar sizes.......and as for the size of a tin of Roses

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

Guess we now know where the 'black hole' came from;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-starmer-labour-b2630357.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

 

"Sir Keir Starmer has come under pressure to publish the true costs of Brexit after a minister confirmed Britain has spent £24bn alone withdrawing from the EU – with a further £6.4bn still to pay.

The prime minister has been urged to order an inquiry into Britain’s relationship with the bloc to assess the damage of Brexit and identify opportunities for closer cooperation in future.

As Sir Keir embarks on a much-hyped “reset” of relations with Brussels, Treasury minister Tulip Siddiq confirmed Britain has paid the EU £23.8bn as part of its “financial settlement” agreement.

On top of the money already spent, Ms Siddiq confirmed in response to a parliamentary question that Britain will pay another estimated £6.4bn to the bloc to settle the UK’s pre-existing financial obligations."

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spyinthesky

spyinthesky

Posted
Posted (edited)

Didnt that enthusiastic Brexit supporter make a speech some years ago about Cheese and Pork markets and how it was a 'DISGRACE' that the UK was not competitive.

A campaign was then started to make the UK 'Grate Again' as a cheese exporter.

That seems to have gone well.

Edited by spyinthesky
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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If cheese imports have fallen then opportunities to sell British cheese in the UK must have grown. That looks to me like a positive.....

 

2 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Could the vacuum not be made up of artisan British Cheeses?

The issue is exports - effectively cutting yourself off from your largest ( and nearest ) trading partner by imposing paperwork and regulations has had a drastic impact on small businesses for whom the added costs make trading non-viable.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

The issue is exports - effectively cutting yourself off from your largest ( and nearest ) trading partner by imposing paperwork and regulations has had a drastic impact on small businesses for whom the added costs make trading non-viable.

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I think that cheese sales have increased and imports have dropped so you can assume that British cheese sales have increased. 

That's a bloody big assumption.

Trade is not a zero-sum game in the way you're making out.

17 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

Nope.

Britain voted for separation in 2016, and then the barriers that have gone up that Britain voted for in 2019. 

Pretty sure you were mad keen on all of it.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

That's a bloody big assumption.

Trade is not a zero-sum game in the way you're making out.

Nope.

Britain voted for separation in 2016, and then the barriers that have gone up that Britain voted for in 2019. 

Pretty sure you were mad keen on all of it.

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

Yes you are missing something. It's pretty pointless to try and explain it but it's not a zero sum game, there's no linear relationship between that goes down so that goes up instead. Trade never works like that and it never will.

 

The UK voted for Brexit, the British people voted to get Brexit done in 2019. If you voted for both of those things, it's on you. More broadly this shit show is on all of us because ots what "we" wanted. You were pretty fucking gleeful about it when you chose to be.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yes you are missing something. It's pretty pointless to try and explain it but it's not a zero sum game, there's no linear relationship between that goes down so that goes up instead. Trade never works like that and it never will.

 

The UK voted for Brexit, the British people voted to get Brexit done in 2019. If you voted for both of those things, it's on you. More broadly this shit show is on all of us because ots what "we" wanted. You were pretty fucking gleeful about it when you chose to be.

It might not be an exact science but it is a good indicator particularly for perishable goods.

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

FWIW, I definitely "Buy British" much more than I did, say, 5 years ago, but that may well be more down to moving to 'the countryside', where one is more inclined to support the local farms and cottage industries etc, than anything to do with Brexit and the resultant drop in imports, per se.

Edited by trousers
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

It might not be an exact science but it is a good indicator particularly for perishable goods.

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

Still no. The defining characteristic of premium/artisan cheese is not that it is "perishable", it is a discretionary / optional purchase.  It's not a commodity essential to live off. If Brexit paperwork forces the closure of businesses that import premium cheese those sales are not just magically picked up by British product instead. In your head you might want to tell yourself that fairytale bit that's not what happens.

These days there is paperwork and unbelievable red tape that has tied up food businesses in doing what was previously a piece of piss to ship out or bring in product. It is soul destroying and definitely business destroying. It was this way last week, last year and it will be next week and next year. It's here to stay thanks to what the UK population enthusiastically voted for.

As a nation we have burdened businesses with admin and paperwork to an eye-watering scale and it has for sure driven some businesses to the wall.

I work for a gigantic food business. We have absorbed loads of it but it is still utterly infuriating and pointless. Smaller businesses it is no surprise if they have shut down or moved headquarters.

Whether you find it "tedious" or not doesn't matter. It is happening. Yesterday, today, tomorrow. Every day pointless paperwork.

Still you got the Brexit you wanted so congratulations.

Edited by CB Fry
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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

Think cheese is one of the industries that are right to be pissed off.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/brexit-forced-fall-love-british-cheese-again-2580043?srsltid=AfmBOorWgh9Y-gAHEx3MqlifxCoNp61F7HeIWVGTppIwagx_iIfBC9lt

“The Cheshire Cheese Company, which produces Cheshire and Cheddar, has long had a significant European market. Prior to Brexit, its average e-commerce order from Europe was around £35 for 1.5kg of cheese, including delivery. Founder and managing director Simon Spurrell says Brexit added an extra £180 in export costs for each order, no matter the size. During the summer of 2021, an average wholesale shipment of 2.5 tonnes rose from £400 to £1,200. “Our existing trade customers over there said ‘you’re too expensive’,” says Spurrell. They forecast a loss of £250,000.”

 

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Still no. The defining characteristic of premium/artisan cheese is not that it is "perishable", it is a discretionary / optional purchase.  It's not a commodity essential to live off. If Brexit paperwork forces the closure of businesses that import premium cheese those sales are not just magically picked up by British product instead. In your head you might want to tell yourself that fairytale bit that's not what happens.

These days there is paperwork and unbelievable red tape that has tied up food businesses in doing what was previously a piece of piss to ship out or bring in product. It is soul destroying and definitely business destroying. It was this way last week, last year and it will be next week and next year. It's here to stay thanks to what the UK population enthusiastically voted for.

As a nation we have burdened businesses with admin and paperwork to an eye-watering scale and it has for sure driven some businesses to the wall.

I work for a gigantic food business. We have absorbed loads of it but it is still utterly infuriating and pointless. Smaller businesses it is no surprise if they have shut down or moved headquarters.

Whether you find it "tedious" or not doesn't matter. It is happening. Yesterday, today, tomorrow. Every day pointless paperwork.

Still you got the Brexit you wanted so congratulations.

It was unfortunate that some competitors failed to get to Portugal but I would suggest that the Cheese industry in the UK has prospered since Brexit. There are lots of authentic examples of industries handicapped by the impact of Brexit, I don't cheese is one of them. The article was just another example of any opportunity to blame Brexit. 

 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

Yeah, it’s always someone else’s fault.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Think cheese is one of the industries that are right to be pissed off.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/brexit-forced-fall-love-british-cheese-again-2580043?srsltid=AfmBOorWgh9Y-gAHEx3MqlifxCoNp61F7HeIWVGTppIwagx_iIfBC9lt

“The Cheshire Cheese Company, which produces Cheshire and Cheddar, has long had a significant European market. Prior to Brexit, its average e-commerce order from Europe was around £35 for 1.5kg of cheese, including delivery. Founder and managing director Simon Spurrell says Brexit added an extra £180 in export costs for each order, no matter the size. During the summer of 2021, an average wholesale shipment of 2.5 tonnes rose from £400 to £1,200. “Our existing trade customers over there said ‘you’re too expensive’,” says Spurrell. They forecast a loss of £250,000.”

 

That is quite an old article. The company was bought by another UK cheese company and is going great guns. The impact of the budget will have more of an impact than leaving the EU on cheese companies. 

Edited by Sergei Gotsmanov
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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

Just to quote the bleedin’ obvious, the failings have occurred because the UK left the EU, not vice versa. It might be tedious to you that Brexit gets blamed but it gets blamed because that is where the blame lies. We went into this without a plan, spent years trying to formulate a plan and then cobbled together a crap plan that has adversely affected the economy of the UK. Tedious? I would say disastrous.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Just to quote the bleedin’ obvious, the failings have occurred because the UK left the EU, not vice versa. It might be tedious to you that Brexit gets blamed but it gets blamed because that is where the blame lies. We went into this without a plan, spent years trying to formulate a plan and then cobbled together a crap plan that has adversely affected the economy of the UK. Tedious? I would say disastrous.

Yes, but some of the blame does lie with the EU because they wouldn't back down and give us all the things we wanted and let us make our own rules up whilst still remaining nominally in the club.

Or something like that.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

Boris and his chums gave it large, promised us all a great deal from the USA and Europe, slagged off our foreign partners and then wondered why negotiating with these people proved difficult, before trying to blame it on them.

A textbook example of how not to run negotiations - or a country.

#clusterfuck

 

 

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

More EU trading regulations coming into force tomorrow. General product safety regulations (GPSR). More paperwork for exporters. More cost for exporters when selling into the EU. We have of course had no say in drawing up these rules but will need to accept them. So much for our "sovereignty". 

This country really knew how to shoot itself in the foot when voting for Brexit. 

 

Edited by Tamesaint
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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

More EU trading regulations coming into force tomorrow. General product safety regulations (GPSR). More paperwork for exporters. More cost for exporters when selling into the EU. We have of course had no say in drawing up these rules but will need to accept them. So much for our "sovereignty". 

This country really knew how to shoot itself in the foot when voting for Brexit. 

 

Yeah but at least we now have immigration back under ‘control’. It’s a trade off to now reaping the benefits of having control of every thing. And don’t you dare say voters weren’t capable or informed enough to understand the impact of leaving.

 

Edited by whelk
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

More EU trading regulations coming into force tomorrow. General product safety regulations (GPSR). More paperwork for exporters. More cost for exporters when selling into the EU. We have of course had no say in drawing up these rules but will need to accept them. So much for our "sovereignty". 

This country really knew how to shoot itself in the foot when voting for Brexit. 

 

It won't surprise me to see Farage and co label this as "Labour red tape" rather than precisely the Brexit they demanded.

 

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

More EU trading regulations coming into force tomorrow. General product safety regulations (GPSR). More paperwork for exporters. More cost for exporters when selling into the EU. We have of course had no say in drawing up these rules but will need to accept them.

 

52% of the people voted for all that in 2016 - so their wishes must be enforced on everyone in 2025, that's democracy.

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