Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[sadoldgit]

You could barely drive past a field around here without a vote leave poster in it.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

You could barely drive past a field around here without a vote leave poster in it.

The National Farmers' Union supported Remain. Not all land is owned by the farmers working it.

[sadoldgit]

On 17/09/2024 at 17:30, badgerx16 said:

The National Farmers' Union supported Remain. Not all land is owned by the farmers working it.

Maybe not, but they are still farmers just the same. Perhaps it was just an East Kent thing, but the local farmers were very supportive of leave.

Interesting article here.

https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/challenging-the-myth-that-farmers-voted-for-brexit-and-therefore-deserve-whats-coming-to-them/

More…

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmer-support-brexit-strong-ever-fw-poll-reveals

Edited September 19 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

Here we go again 🙄

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-border-force-fleet-immigration-b2615450.html

[Danbert]

Brexit deal impact in UK is worsening, warn economists

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd988p00z1no.amp

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, Danbert said:

Brexit deal impact in UK is worsening, warn economists

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd988p00z1no.amp

Shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody, frictionless trade was as much an outright lie as the £350m a week for the NHS, oven ready deals and having control of borders. All driven by the party of free trade and enterprise (and if anyone still believes that, they’ll think they’ve also won the Nigerian lottery from what’s in their junk mail).

[trousers]

9 hours ago, Danbert said:

Brexit deal impact in UK is worsening, warn economists

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd988p00z1no.amp

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

 

Edited September 30 by trousers

[Gloucester Saint]

8 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

 

It depends what the 32% reduction is in. It may well not be in consumables as people tend to assume but rather building materials and supplies which when you factor in supply chain delays from the pandemic 😷 additionally has had a devastating impact on both large building projects and domestic ones eg renovation. It’s impacted us twice over - we had to withdraw from buying a new property as the regional firm couldn’t get it built and we’d have lost our own buyer and then on the doer-upper on a larger plot we bought instead the cost of materials went through the roof (pun partially intended).

Also, on the imports we do receive, more is coming from outside the EU than before which means more miles travelled because of needless duties which is environmentally worse. On both imports and exports, the uncertainty is not helping smaller businesses doing reasonably well who’d like to expand either. 

[badgerx16]

9 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

 

Trade switching from the EU to other overseas markets, import and export, results in more 'food miles'.

[CB Fry]

The old “we must be buying and eating more good old British turnips then” fallacy.

[OldNick]

10 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a bit out of my intellectual depth when it comes to this sort of stuff (as always, let me know if it shows ), but is the drop in exports being lower that the drop in imports a good or a bad thing? Suggests we're becoming more self-sufficient and 'Buying British' more, doesn't it, which probably pleases the environmentalists amongst us...? (Less 'food miles' etc)

 

 

Both are down to the paperwork and associated costs. Notice how the supermarkets dont have so many products and shelves empty. Some may be down to trying to save waste but a lot is to do with foreign companies not wanting their goods rotting at the border while waiting for the paperwork etc to be done. 

 

[skintsaint]

51 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Notice how the supermarkets dont have so many products and shelves empty

Cant say I have 😅

[buctootim]

20 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Cant say I have 😅

I definitely have. The large Tesco I use most often is continually running out of stock with the staff  saying "we haven't been able to get that for days / week / weeks" delete as app. There are also often gaps in supply - when the season for one supplier ends it seems like they arent able to source another. Not only perisihables either, they didnt even have salt for three weeks apart from pink salt crystals.   

Edited September 30 by buctootim

[revolution saint]

44 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I definitely have. The large Tesco I use most often is continually running out of stock with the staff  saying "we haven't been able to get that for days / week / weeks" delete as app. There are also often gaps in supply - when the season for one supplier ends it seems like they arent able to source another. Not only perisihables either, they didnt even have salt for three weeks apart from pink salt crystals.   

Yes, same here and really been like this since the pandemic.  No idea if it's because of brexit or just general supply issues but definitely seem to run out quicker and replace slower.

On that subject, crisps.  The range of crisps now is rubbish and the packets are getting smaller too.  On it's own it's not much but taken together with everything else, it's a clear sign of decline and I don't like it.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Yes, same here and really been like this since the pandemic.  No idea if it's because of brexit or just general supply issues but definitely seem to run out quicker and replace slower.

On that subject, crisps.  The range of crisps now is rubbish and the packets are getting smaller too.  On it's own it's not much but taken together with everything else, it's a clear sign of decline and I don't like it.

Don't get me on chocolate bar sizes.......and as for the size of a tin of Roses

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Don't get me on chocolate bar sizes.......and as for the size of a tin of Roses

Shrinkflation 

[The Kraken]

Electronic Entry System (EES) November launch date likely to be delayed (again).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/09/plan-to-fingerprint-passengers-on-entry-to-eu-to-be-delayed-again

[Danbert]

https://leftfootforward.org/2024/10/boris-johnsons-book-not-on-sale-in-europe-because-of-brexit/

[badgerx16]

Guess we now know where the 'black hole' came from;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-starmer-labour-b2630357.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

 

"Sir Keir Starmer has come under pressure to publish the true costs of Brexit after a minister confirmed Britain has spent £24bn alone withdrawing from the EU – with a further £6.4bn still to pay.

The prime minister has been urged to order an inquiry into Britain’s relationship with the bloc to assess the damage of Brexit and identify opportunities for closer cooperation in future.

As Sir Keir embarks on a much-hyped “reset” of relations with Brussels, Treasury minister Tulip Siddiq confirmed Britain has paid the EU £23.8bn as part of its “financial settlement” agreement.

On top of the money already spent, Ms Siddiq confirmed in response to a parliamentary question that Britain will pay another estimated £6.4bn to the bloc to settle the UK’s pre-existing financial obligations."

[sadoldgit]

But at least we have got our country back and are in a stronger position to make much more beneficial financial decisions.

🫤

[Danbert]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/25/brexit-has-put-370m-a-year-on-price-of-power-from-eu-since-2021-experts-say

[Gloucester Saint]

Andrew Bailey stating the flippin’ obvious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr5m7mp96l8o

[whelk]

50 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Andrew Bailey stating the flippin’ obvious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr5m7mp96l8o

Deep state ‘experts’ pah 

[CB Fry]

11 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Andrew Bailey stating the flippin’ obvious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr5m7mp96l8o

Look, there's still about 45 years to go before we can judge how terrific it has been for the UK. Jacob Rees-Mogg told us to be patient.

[Sheaf Saint]

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/nov/16/uk-cheeses-miss-out-on-international-prize-after-getting-stuck-in-customs

Un-blessed are the cheese makers.

[spyinthesky]

Didnt that enthusiastic Brexit supporter make a speech some years ago about Cheese and Pork markets and how it was a 'DISGRACE' that the UK was not competitive.

A campaign was then started to make the UK 'Grate Again' as a cheese exporter.

That seems to have gone well.

Edited Sunday at 09:19 by spyinthesky

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

If cheese imports have fallen then opportunities to sell British cheese in the UK must have grown. That looks to me like a positive.....

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If cheese imports have fallen then opportunities to sell British cheese in the UK must have grown. That looks to me like a positive.....

What makes you think that? There was a reason that cheese was being imported.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What makes you think that? There was a reason that cheese was being imported.

Could the vacuum not be made up of artisan British Cheeses?

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If cheese imports have fallen then opportunities to sell British cheese in the UK must have grown. That looks to me like a positive.....

 

2 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Could the vacuum not be made up of artisan British Cheeses?

The issue is exports - effectively cutting yourself off from your largest ( and nearest ) trading partner by imposing paperwork and regulations has had a drastic impact on small businesses for whom the added costs make trading non-viable.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Could the vacuum not be made up of artisan British Cheeses?

If it could be it would have been. You can’t make people buy your products.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If it could be it would have been. You can’t make people buy your products.

I think that cheese sales have increased and imports have dropped so you can assume that British cheese sales have increased. 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

The issue is exports - effectively cutting yourself off from your largest ( and nearest ) trading partner by imposing paperwork and regulations has had a drastic impact on small businesses for whom the added costs make trading non-viable.

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I think that cheese sales have increased and imports have dropped so you can assume that British cheese sales have increased. 

That's a bloody big assumption.

Trade is not a zero-sum game in the way you're making out.

17 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

Nope.

Britain voted for separation in 2016, and then the barriers that have gone up that Britain voted for in 2019. 

Pretty sure you were mad keen on all of it.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

That's a bloody big assumption.

Trade is not a zero-sum game in the way you're making out.

Nope.

Britain voted for separation in 2016, and then the barriers that have gone up that Britain voted for in 2019. 

Pretty sure you were mad keen on all of it.

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

Yes you are missing something. It's pretty pointless to try and explain it but it's not a zero sum game, there's no linear relationship between that goes down so that goes up instead. Trade never works like that and it never will.

 

The UK voted for Brexit, the British people voted to get Brexit done in 2019. If you voted for both of those things, it's on you. More broadly this shit show is on all of us because ots what "we" wanted. You were pretty fucking gleeful about it when you chose to be.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

45 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yes you are missing something. It's pretty pointless to try and explain it but it's not a zero sum game, there's no linear relationship between that goes down so that goes up instead. Trade never works like that and it never will.

 

The UK voted for Brexit, the British people voted to get Brexit done in 2019. If you voted for both of those things, it's on you. More broadly this shit show is on all of us because ots what "we" wanted. You were pretty fucking gleeful about it when you chose to be.

It might not be an exact science but it is a good indicator particularly for perishable goods.

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

[trousers]

FWIW, I definitely "Buy British" much more than I did, say, 5 years ago, but that may well be more down to moving to 'the countryside', where one is more inclined to support the local farms and cottage industries etc, than anything to do with Brexit and the resultant drop in imports, per se.

Edited Sunday at 17:39 by trousers

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

It might not be an exact science but it is a good indicator particularly for perishable goods.

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

Still no. The defining characteristic of premium/artisan cheese is not that it is "perishable", it is a discretionary / optional purchase.  It's not a commodity essential to live off. If Brexit paperwork forces the closure of businesses that import premium cheese those sales are not just magically picked up by British product instead. In your head you might want to tell yourself that fairytale bit that's not what happens.

These days there is paperwork and unbelievable red tape that has tied up food businesses in doing what was previously a piece of piss to ship out or bring in product. It is soul destroying and definitely business destroying. It was this way last week, last year and it will be next week and next year. It's here to stay thanks to what the UK population enthusiastically voted for.

As a nation we have burdened businesses with admin and paperwork to an eye-watering scale and it has for sure driven some businesses to the wall.

I work for a gigantic food business. We have absorbed loads of it but it is still utterly infuriating and pointless. Smaller businesses it is no surprise if they have shut down or moved headquarters.

Whether you find it "tedious" or not doesn't matter. It is happening. Yesterday, today, tomorrow. Every day pointless paperwork.

Still you got the Brexit you wanted so congratulations.

Edited Sunday at 19:45 by CB Fry

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I never celebrated the result but find blaming Brexit for everything rather tedious. 

 

 

Think cheese is one of the industries that are right to be pissed off.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/brexit-forced-fall-love-british-cheese-again-2580043?srsltid=AfmBOorWgh9Y-gAHEx3MqlifxCoNp61F7HeIWVGTppIwagx_iIfBC9lt

“The Cheshire Cheese Company, which produces Cheshire and Cheddar, has long had a significant European market. Prior to Brexit, its average e-commerce order from Europe was around £35 for 1.5kg of cheese, including delivery. Founder and managing director Simon Spurrell says Brexit added an extra £180 in export costs for each order, no matter the size. During the summer of 2021, an average wholesale shipment of 2.5 tonnes rose from £400 to £1,200. “Our existing trade customers over there said ‘you’re too expensive’,” says Spurrell. They forecast a loss of £250,000.”

 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

33 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Still no. The defining characteristic of premium/artisan cheese is not that it is "perishable", it is a discretionary / optional purchase.  It's not a commodity essential to live off. If Brexit paperwork forces the closure of businesses that import premium cheese those sales are not just magically picked up by British product instead. In your head you might want to tell yourself that fairytale bit that's not what happens.

These days there is paperwork and unbelievable red tape that has tied up food businesses in doing what was previously a piece of piss to ship out or bring in product. It is soul destroying and definitely business destroying. It was this way last week, last year and it will be next week and next year. It's here to stay thanks to what the UK population enthusiastically voted for.

As a nation we have burdened businesses with admin and paperwork to an eye-watering scale and it has for sure driven some businesses to the wall.

I work for a gigantic food business. We have absorbed loads of it but it is still utterly infuriating and pointless. Smaller businesses it is no surprise if they have shut down or moved headquarters.

Whether you find it "tedious" or not doesn't matter. It is happening. Yesterday, today, tomorrow. Every day pointless paperwork.

Still you got the Brexit you wanted so congratulations.

It was unfortunate that some competitors failed to get to Portugal but I would suggest that the Cheese industry in the UK has prospered since Brexit. There are lots of authentic examples of industries handicapped by the impact of Brexit, I don't cheese is one of them. The article was just another example of any opportunity to blame Brexit. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If consumption goes up and imports go down then its fair to say that domestic sales go up or am I missing something?

Actually I think the EU could have done more to keep us in but like many they believed the polls and gave Cameron nothing to sell to the people. I voted out thinking it would strengthen our negotiating position in future talks. Those talks never happened and I was wrong but I still think some of the blame for Brexit lies with the EU. 

Yeah, it’s always someone else’s fault.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Think cheese is one of the industries that are right to be pissed off.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/brexit-forced-fall-love-british-cheese-again-2580043?srsltid=AfmBOorWgh9Y-gAHEx3MqlifxCoNp61F7HeIWVGTppIwagx_iIfBC9lt

“The Cheshire Cheese Company, which produces Cheshire and Cheddar, has long had a significant European market. Prior to Brexit, its average e-commerce order from Europe was around £35 for 1.5kg of cheese, including delivery. Founder and managing director Simon Spurrell says Brexit added an extra £180 in export costs for each order, no matter the size. During the summer of 2021, an average wholesale shipment of 2.5 tonnes rose from £400 to £1,200. “Our existing trade customers over there said ‘you’re too expensive’,” says Spurrell. They forecast a loss of £250,000.”

 

That is quite an old article. The company was bought by another UK cheese company and is going great guns. The impact of the budget will have more of an impact than leaving the EU on cheese companies. 

Edited Sunday at 22:05 by Sergei Gotsmanov

[sadoldgit]

19 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I am a great advocate of free trade but the failings lie with both the EU and the UK....

Just to quote the bleedin’ obvious, the failings have occurred because the UK left the EU, not vice versa. It might be tedious to you that Brexit gets blamed but it gets blamed because that is where the blame lies. We went into this without a plan, spent years trying to formulate a plan and then cobbled together a crap plan that has adversely affected the economy of the UK. Tedious? I would say disastrous.

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Just to quote the bleedin’ obvious, the failings have occurred because the UK left the EU, not vice versa. It might be tedious to you that Brexit gets blamed but it gets blamed because that is where the blame lies. We went into this without a plan, spent years trying to formulate a plan and then cobbled together a crap plan that has adversely affected the economy of the UK. Tedious? I would say disastrous.

Yes, but some of the blame does lie with the EU because they wouldn't back down and give us all the things we wanted and let us make our own rules up whilst still remaining nominally in the club.

Or something like that.

[rallyboy]

Boris and his chums gave it large, promised us all a great deal from the USA and Europe, slagged off our foreign partners and then wondered why negotiating with these people proved difficult, before trying to blame it on them.

A textbook example of how not to run negotiations - or a country.

#clusterfuck