Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I am sure the 'mob' will jump over this....

 

Is that the same "mob" that trawl around twitter looking for Brexit opinion posts from non entitiy accounts to paste up on a football forum, or is that a different "mob"?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I am sure the 'mob' will jump over this....

 

Ultimately voting in was a non win situation. Had we done so, the EU would have been far been far more thick skinned to the British viewpoint because they would believe, probably incorrectly, that we would not endure another referendum. In turn Euro scepticism among the public, which had been on a steady upward trajectory before June 2016, would have accelerated and it is likely that the demand for another referendum would have become politically irresistible.

By voting out in 2016, I think that we have dramatically increased our negotiating power in any future rejoining agreement. I thought at the time that by voting out, the EU would make the concessions that they stupidly had not given David Cameron prior to the vote and we would have voted to leave on another plebiscite. 

Under the inevitable landslide Labour election win later this year, I would think it is realistic that we will begin discussions to re enter the EU under much improved terms. By then it will be politically advantageous to back rejoining and we will go back in. I would suspect that Euro scepticism on the continent will mean that any future EU will be very different to the one we voted out of and the direction of travel for the institution will be more in keeping with the original  trade aspirations of the Treaty of Rome.

 

Edited February 4 by Sergei Gotsmanov
meant to say voted out

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I am sure the 'mob' will jump over this....

 

I actually bothered to read some of his posts. I regret the waste now. His stuff is full of: 

Contradictions eg 'leaving the EU has made no difference, things are worse in Europe because of the EU';

Factual untruths: farmers are in decline because of net zero (the price of red diesel has nothing to do with net zero and even if it did the importance to famers pales beside the loss of £7bn CAP subsidies they used to get 

Plain old made up carp:  "That’s what lead to the pleasant, successful communities that colliery and steel towns usually were"  I guess he never went to Ebbw Vale, Scunthorpe,  Sefton or Aberfan. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

It seems to be from this Twitter account

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/highlights

Ta. I read and contribute to a blog written by his father. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

 

Under the inevitable landslide Labour election win later this year, I would think it is realistic that we will begin discussions to re enter the EU under much improved terms. By then it will be politically advantageous to back rejoining and we will go back in

 

I’ve seen this a few times, but fundamentally disagree. 
 

I listened to an ex diplomatic advisor taking to David Aaronovitch about the process of rejoining. He said the one thing the EU must have & will insist on before entering into any talks, is political consensus. Rejoining The EU must be a settled issue within the 3 parties that will form any future Government, like it was from 1983 until the referendum. Any differences between changing UK administrations were tiny and at the edges of policy, they all fundamentally believed in staying in The EU. He said that until this stability in political thought is achieved The EU will not enter into negotiations. He doubted that political consensus in this country will be reached for another generation at least. 
 

Which leads me to your point. Which way do you think a heavily defeated Tory party will go? Personally, I’d say they’ll move to the right, further away from the wing of the party that wouldn’t mind rejoining, meaning less of a consensus & less chance the EU will start talks. The other problem rejoiners have is the stay out vote is spread over the country, and in any FPTP election the anti EU votes will achieve more seats for less % of the vote. If Labour start talks (unlikely in my opinion) Sterling, Free movement & Schengen will form part of those talks. It’s therefore not particularly hard for the Tories to turn the 2030/31 election into a “Brexit” one. Even if 55% of the population want to rejoin, those 55% won’t equate to a majority due to the concentration of those 55%. Therefore it could well cost Labour a second term if they enter into talks with The EU, making it highly unlikely they would want to do so. They’ll be extremely careful around the EU issue, particularly in their first term. 
 

So that makes it unlikely the EU would want talks (lack of political consensus) & unlikely labour would want talks (May cost them subsequent election). 

 

The only way is for our electoral system to be changed.  Only Lab/Lib/Pinko Tory permanent majority will bring political consensus. And only PR will ensure labour don’t lose power by entering into talks. Labour may say they want PR, but we know what happens when parties win stonking great majorities under FPTP, they suddenly decide it’s the best system. A Labour super majority makes PR less likely & PR is the only way you’ll get serious talks about rejoining going in the next 25 years imo. 

[badgerx16]

Agreed with Duckie, above.

There are far more pressing domestic issues that Labour will campaign on, and look to address. Perhaps in a second term they might look at reviewing our trading relationship with the EU, and in the meanwhile try to make the best of the dog's dinner of an agreement we currently have, but rejoining as a full member is many years away, ( though hopefully long before we get to find if JRM's prediction of 50 years before we see the true benefits of Brexit pans out ).

[rallyboy]

It's unwise to try to book back into a hotel after smearing shit up the walls and telling all the staff and other guests to go fuck themselves.

All anyone has ever wanted with the EU is a sensible relationship with near neighbours, but that requires mature diplomacy from a skilled minister, so we'll have to wait for one of those to turn up.

[Guided Missile]

40 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

It's unwise to try to book back into a hotel after smearing shit up the walls and telling all the staff and other guests to go fuck themselves.

More like spending a fortune in a hotel, providing the security for the premises and when asking the management for a better deal, to be told to go and fuck yourself.

[Tamesaint]

29 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

More like spending a fortune in a hotel, providing the security for the premises and when asking the management for a better deal, to be told to go and fuck yourself.

Is this another parody account?

[badgerx16]

36 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

More like spending a fortune in a hotel, providing the security for the premises and when asking the management for a better deal, to be told to go and fuck yourself.

What do you make of BadEnoch's honey exports to Saudi boast ?

[Tamesaint]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

What do you make of BadEnoch's honey exports to Saudi boast ?

Very sweet?? 😁😁😁😁

[Weston Super Saint]

42 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What do you make of BadEnoch's honey exports to Saudi boast ?

It's a sticky situation.

[rooney]

2 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 

 

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

What do you make of BadEnoch's honey exports to Saudi boast ?

I expect she gets a buzz out of it.

[Guided Missile]

Britain’s dominant services sector expanded at its fastest pace in eight months as France and Germany’s companies slumped, according to closely-watched surveys. The S&P Global UK Services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) - a key monthly barometer of the sector’s performance - rose to 54.3 in January, up from 53.4 in December.  It was above the 50 mark separating growth from contraction for the third consecutive month. Tim Moore, economics director at S&P Global, said “stronger business and consumer spending” had buoyed the sector in Britain but it was a different story in Europe. 

France’s services businesses are in their longest downturn for more than a decade, with its PMI showing a decline for the eighth consecutive month. Germany’s services sector PMI worsened to a five-month low.

[badgerx16]

49 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Britain’s dominant services sector expanded at its fastest pace in eight months as France and Germany’s companies slumped, according to closely-watched surveys. The S&P Global UK Services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) - a key monthly barometer of the sector’s performance - rose to 54.3 in January, up from 53.4 in December.  It was above the 50 mark separating growth from contraction for the third consecutive month. Tim Moore, economics director at S&P Global, said “stronger business and consumer spending” had buoyed the sector in Britain but it was a different story in Europe. 

France’s services businesses are in their longest downturn for more than a decade, with its PMI showing a decline for the eighth consecutive month. Germany’s services sector PMI worsened to a five-month low.

So confidence is at it's highest level since last May. Is this really a Brexit benefit ? It was higher in 2021 and 2022, was it a Brexit 'impact' when confidence was lower in between ?

Edited February 5 by badgerx16

[Danbert]

Some Gammon bait from the Daily Heil that amusingly builds on a misunderstanding of what a trade deal actually is. Apparently, those pesky Eurocrats are threatening our British right to prevent people withholding their labor. Surely now we're a sovereign country they no longer have any say in how we decide to trash our own country? Think again Gammons!

[Gloucester Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68261249

As predicable as the sun coming up in the morning. The farmers would get more public empathy if they actually acknowledged their mistakes being misinformed over Brexit instead of adding to the already considerable industrial and civil unrest. Promise to unseat the government and collaborate with others looking for the same outcome at the GE.

I get why them and the fisherman are so angry because they were totally mugged off by Boris, Rees Mogg, Farage and co. The Canada trade ‘deal’ by Truss has been a total joke for example and the Australia deal has pushed the farmers under the bus. 

I was in North Yorkshire during the lead up in 2016 and it was full of farms with Leave signs everywhere we drove. 

Edited February 10 by Gloucester Saint

[badgerx16]

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Pressed it. Lasted 30 seconds. 20 of which were not listening to them, but wondering if you could play X-Com on the back drop.

[Fan The Flames]

18 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Have The Proclaimers gone all Right Said Fred.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Have The Proclaimers gone all Right Said Fred.

And I would walk 500 miles

To take a man to a Rwandan flight

OR

I'm too sexy for this show

Too sexy for this view

Too sexy for reality

[buctootim]

On 05/02/2024 at 07:28, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve seen this a few times, but fundamentally disagree. 
 

It's all about alignment now. We'll slide back in by increments to the point where its effectively irrelevant whether we are technically members or not. I haven't heard the phrase Norway + for quite a while, but that's where we'll end up over 15-20 years imo.   

[badgerx16]

My wife was watching the final of an American baking competition on telly last evening. There were 3 judges, 2 Americans and the English former model turned cooking presenter Lorraine Pascal. Ms Pascal disagreed with the other 2 over one of the competitors and pushed her chair back in a faux huff. One of the yanks asked the other "What's wrong with her ?". "Oh, she's just Brexiting."

[Danbert]

Brexit positives like a fictional increase in exports of honey to Saudi Arabia are somewhat offset by the 100 billion in lost exports to the EU that nobody, but nobody saw coming and which, in any case, will definitely be offset by all these fantastic new trade deals we're always just about to sign.

McInnes Emoji

[Challenger]

On 16/02/2024 at 22:06, Lighthouse said:

I agree, it’d be great to see Putin’s army of conscripted, alcoholic thugs committing war crimes across Eastern Europe, if it means we get to make snide remarks about Brexit.

Would that be Brexit from the very same EU that the former president of France, Charles De Gaulle swore to prevent the UK from joining during his lifetime by any chance ?

Fine gratitude from the leader of a country that Britain helped liberate from the last lot of conscipted, alcoholic thugs that threatened Europe.

Surely the irony of that would not be lost, even to a person such as yourself ?

[Challenger]

12 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

So NATO members want to embrace other NATO “friends” into NATO???  

Absolutely, especially friends who spend their alloted GDP percentage on defence ,willing to stick their necks out and happy to get their hands dirty.

I'm other news, the UK and US are the only countries that are proactive in protecting international shipping in the Red sea. Rightly or wrongly we have targeted the strongholds of the rebels and spend 1 million a pop on missiles to shoot down agressive drones.

The few other countries that have warships in the area are there to protect their " own assets ".

Yet another example of letting us and the US do their dirty work for them.

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Challenger said:

 

Fine gratitude from the leader of a country that Britain helped liberate from the last lot of conscipted, alcoholic thugs that threatened Europe.

 

There were a few Free French involved as well. 😉

[sadoldgit]

12 hours ago, Challenger said:

Would that be Brexit from the very same EU that the former president of France, Charles De Gaulle swore to prevent the UK from joining during his lifetime by any chance ?

Fine gratitude from the leader of a country that Britain helped liberate from the last lot of conscipted, alcoholic thugs that threatened Europe.

Surely the irony of that would not be lost, even to a person such as yourself ?

Didn’t de Gaulle die over 50 years ago and before the EU was the EU? I think that you will find that the world has moved on a bit since the 1960’s.

[Challenger]

11 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

There were a few Free French involved as well. 😉

That's why I used the word "helped".

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

12 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

There were a few Free French involved as well. 😉

Wasn't the joke the free French were De Gaulle and two others

[badgerx16]

49 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Wasn't the joke the free French were De Gaulle and two others

It may have been, but the Foreign Legion and the rest of their brigade fighting Rommel at Bir Hakeim would quite happily have taken on anybody saying it.

Edited February 18 by badgerx16

[Fan The Flames]

13 hours ago, Challenger said:

Would that be Brexit from the very same EU that the former president of France, Charles De Gaulle swore to prevent the UK from joining during his lifetime by any chance ?

Fine gratitude from the leader of a country that Britain helped liberate from the last lot of conscipted, alcoholic thugs that threatened Europe.

Surely the irony of that would not be lost, even to a person such as yourself ?

Two World Wars And One World Cup, England, England.

There were ten German bombers in the air. There were ten German bombers in the air.

Stand up if you won the war, stand up if you won the war.

Edited February 18 by Fan The Flames

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

 

Stand up if you won the war, stand up if you won the war.

Several million Russians and Americans stand up.

[buctootim]

15 hours ago, Challenger said:

Absolutely, especially friends who spend their alloted GDP percentage on defence ,willing to stick their necks out and happy to get their hands dirty.

I'm other news, the UK and US are the only countries that are proactive in protecting international shipping in the Red sea. Rightly or wrongly we have targeted the strongholds of the rebels and spend 1 million a pop on missiles to shoot down aggressive drones. France  

The few other countries that have warships in the area are there to protect their " own assets ".

Yet another example of letting us and the US do their dirty work for them.

And there in a nutshell is why you're a joke. The US led Prosperity Guardian is a coalition of 11 countries and the country with the largest number of ships committed is India with 12. Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, France, Italy and Germany have all sent ships, some under national command and some under US unified command. France was there and shooting down drones six weeks before Britain sleepily rocked up. The operations cover not just the straits entrance to the Red Sea but also the longer Yemen coast along the Arabian sea 

 https://www.arabnews.com/node/2461461/world

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231210-french-frigate-downs-drones-over-red-sea-military

 

 

Edited February 18 by buctootim

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

5 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

It may have been, but the Foreign Legion and the rest of their brigade fighting Rommel at Bir Hakeim would quite happily have taken on anybody saying it.

The French certainly fought hard in Lebanon and Syria in 1941.....

[Challenger]

Buctootim:

Both the UK and France have a permanent naval presence in the area so your comment that we sleepily rocked up weeks later is a load of bollocks. Yes you are correct that a French warship downed drones while our ship to do so wasn't there, however that was due to the overlap relieving the ship already on station .

I still stand by my previous comments, the UK and US are the ONLY countries to directly take on the rebels and the navies of the other participants are there primarily to protect their OWN assets as they do not want to get involved further in the conflict.

If these undeniable facts make me a joke in your eyes, so be it.

Sadoldgit:

You are absolutely right, De Gaulle has been dead over 50 years, the EU has evolved greatly from the days of the EEC and the world has moved on greatly.

You will no doubt disagree with me but I don't think however that the European perception of the UK has changed much over that time

Fan the flames :

Are you pissed or something ?

For God's sake have an adult argument with me like the others of you don't agree with my comments, rather than resorting to infantile dittys most people leave behind in the playground.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Challenger said:

.....t I don't think however that the European perception of the UK has changed much over that time

And the reverse also, at least as far as part of the UK populace is concerned.

[moonraker]

On 17/02/2024 at 22:44, badgerx16 said:

There were a few Free French involved as well. 😉

And Canadians, Americans, Poles, Czechs, Dutch, Indians, Australians ………

[badgerx16]

6 hours ago, moonraker said:

And Canadians, Americans, Poles, Czechs, Dutch, Indians, Australians ………

Even Brazil had soldiers fighting in Italy against the Germans, but that wasn't the point I was making.

[Fan The Flames]

10 hours ago, Challenger said:

Buctootim:

Both the UK and France have a permanent naval presence in the area so your comment that we sleepily rocked up weeks later is a load of bollocks. Yes you are correct that a French warship downed drones while our ship to do so wasn't there, however that was due to the overlap relieving the ship already on station .

I still stand by my previous comments, the UK and US are the ONLY countries to directly take on the rebels and the navies of the other participants are there primarily to protect their OWN assets as they do not want to get involved further in the conflict.

If these undeniable facts make me a joke in your eyes, so be it.

Sadoldgit:

You are absolutely right, De Gaulle has been dead over 50 years, the EU has evolved greatly from the days of the EEC and the world has moved on greatly.

You will no doubt disagree with me but I don't think however that the European perception of the UK has changed much over that time

Fan the flames :

Are you pissed or something ?

For God's sake have an adult argument with me like the others of you don't agree with my comments, rather than resorting to infantile dittys most people leave behind in the playground.

Mate your the EU is shit and hates us stuff, isn't the adult discussion you think it is.

[sadoldgit]

17 hours ago, Challenger said:

Buctootim:

Both the UK and France have a permanent naval presence in the area so your comment that we sleepily rocked up weeks later is a load of bollocks. Yes you are correct that a French warship downed drones while our ship to do so wasn't there, however that was due to the overlap relieving the ship already on station .

I still stand by my previous comments, the UK and US are the ONLY countries to directly take on the rebels and the navies of the other participants are there primarily to protect their OWN assets as they do not want to get involved further in the conflict.

If these undeniable facts make me a joke in your eyes, so be it.

Sadoldgit:

You are absolutely right, De Gaulle has been dead over 50 years, the EU has evolved greatly from the days of the EEC and the world has moved on greatly.

You will no doubt disagree with me but I don't think however that the European perception of the UK has changed much over that time

Fan the flames :

Are you pissed or something ?

For God's sake have an adult argument with me like the others of you don't agree with my comments, rather than resorting to infantile dittys most people leave behind in the playground.

I don’t know what the European perception of the UK is nowadays, but given our spoilt brat “we are special” attitude when we were members of the EU, the car crash referendum and the complete mess we have made of life post Brexit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the general attitude towards us is very negative.

[Whitey Grandad]

46 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know what the European perception of the UK is nowadays, but given our spoilt brat “we are special” attitude when we were members of the EU, the car crash referendum and the complete mess we have made of life post Brexit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the general attitude towards us is very negative.

More sadness at what we have become. There is (or was) a lot of goodwill towards us but now they’re just shaking their heads in disbelief.

[Lord Duckhunter]

😂😂😂

 

 

[Fan The Flames]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

😂😂😂

 

 

I'm certain in early days of Anti-Federalist League the numbers would have been low, and look what happened there.

[Fan The Flames]

The video is funny but every journey starts with a first step.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

😂😂😂

 

 

I think the guy at the front just got caught up on his way back from Sainsbury's.

[Tamesaint]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

😂😂😂

 

 

Nearly as pathetic as :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/march-to-leave-sorm-hit-minion-nigel-farage-brexit-protest

I wonder if Nige charged people to go on his march. 😁😁😁

[sadoldgit]

The important point is that if there were another vote today the result would be reversed.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

The important point is that if there were another vote today the result would be reversed.

#deluded. 
 

If you think the British people will accept The Euro, Schengen  & paying millions in with no rebate, you’re away with the fairies. It’s gone, it’s over, Femi & the other weirdos are wasting their time. 

[West end Saints]

Just commenting on last two posts, as I have not been following this thread.

 

I think the situation is quite clear:

 

The vast majority of people, including those who campaigned for Brexit, agree it (the Brexit we achieved) has been bad for the UK.

 

If people could turn the clock back, and vote again (with today's knowledge), it would be a huge landslide to remain - not just to save us from what turned out to be the disaster of Brexit, but to prevent the time it took, the arguments, the mess of parliament, politics since etc..

 

However, I doubt that many want to revisit the decision and have a vote on whether to rejoin,  repeating all of the arguments.

I think most just want to find a way forward.

Edited March 25 by West end Saints