Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[so22saint]

You seem to be pretending that it is the EU giving us subsidies. They are just giving us back a percentage of what we give them. It's our money and most of it subsidises other EU countries.

 

indeed it is. most of our money comes from trading as a part of the single market. in fact a very large % comes from London financial services. if we lose access to that market, and in particular access to passporting for clearing houses then we won't have the money to share out for the farmers, nhs etc...

 

as per my previous post, this needs to be well negotiated. as somebody who has built a number of multi-million £ businesses from scratch one of my frustrations with people is assuming "they" can fix it and "we" can spend that money, not understanding the personal effort and numerous small things that are important to success. ironically I'm now saying that "they" can negotiate it. i'd offer my services but I'm too busy getting fat and playing golf. cockend

[solentstars]

I would have thought by now the 3 stooges would have signed all these easy trade deals and all those people around the world throwing money . buying the pound and investors beating a path to our world beating economy on day 1 after the vote to leave.t hen I woke up and realized it was all a dream...lol. Still waiting for the fantasy world .

 

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[Wes Tender]

I would have thought by now the 3 stooges would have signed all these easy trade deals and all those people around the world throwing money . buying the pound and investors beating a path to our world beating economy on day 1 after the vote to leave.t hen I woke up and realized it was all a dream...lol. Still waiting for the fantasy world .

 

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Was it a wet dream? If you knew what you were prattling on about in your pidgin English, you would know that whereas we are able to open discussions with other potential trade partners, we are not allowed to conclude them until we have actually left the EU. As we haven't yet even triggered Article 50 yet, your ejaculation is premature.

[solentstars]

I see the guy who negotiated the EU rebate reckons that David Davies is living in cloud cookoo land . no surprise is that.it will be nice if we got real but no sign of that is there .just imagine if a labour government had been in power and the pound dropped 18℅ ,the papers would be screaming about they were not fit for government and how w..yet not a peep out of them..

 

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[Verbal]

Was it a wet dream? If you knew what you were prattling on about in your pidgin English, you would know that whereas we are able to open discussions with other potential trade partners, we are not allowed to conclude them until we have actually left the EU. As we haven't yet even triggered Article 50 yet, your ejaculation is premature.

 

Your schnozzle gets longer with each post.

 

Britain can't do more than have the most cursory of discussions about trade with non-EU countries because it hasn't decided (as if that were unilateral!) whether to go for soft Brexit (membership of internal market) or hard Brexit (economic collapse). If the former were actually the outcome, practically all discussions with non-EU countries would have to start from scratch because Britain is not allowed to offer a trading backdoor to the EU market for non-EU countries. Even with the latter, the version of hard Brexit would have to be extreme - no exceptions whatsoever for, say, the car industry and the financial services industry - for Britain to follow through on any trade talks with non-EU countries.

 

Any news, from your superannuated corner of locked in, inflation-proofed benefits, what you'd say to people on non-pension benefits, whose breadline income is already being cut by the hard Brexit-induced run on the pound and the consequent spike in inflation?

[Wes Tender]

Your schnozzle gets longer with each post.

 

Britain can't do more than have the most cursory of discussions about trade with non-EU countries because it hasn't decided (as if that were unilateral!) whether to go for soft Brexit (membership of internal market) or hard Brexit (economic collapse). If the former were actually the outcome, practically all discussions with non-EU countries would have to start from scratch because Britain is not allowed to offer a trading backdoor to the EU market for non-EU countries. Even with the latter, the version of hard Brexit would have to be extreme - no exceptions whatsoever for, say, the car industry and the financial services industry - for Britain to follow through on any trade talks with non-EU countries.

 

Any news, from your superannuated corner of locked in, inflation-proofed benefits, what you'd say to people on non-pension benefits, whose breadline income is already being cut by the hard Brexit-induced run on the pound and the consequent spike in inflation?

 

Why don't you just wait and see what happens when we have actually triggered Article 50, instead on indulging in your usual Verbal diarrhoea?

[Verbal]

Why don't you just wait and see what happens when we have actually triggered Article 50, instead on indulging in your usual Verbal diarrhoea?

 

Translation: you have no answers, not even from your gullible and blind acceptance of the 'let's all stay schtum' mantra from the three killer clowns.

 

Here's one of many canaries in the coal mine - a small (250 employees) Lincolnshire costuming company called Smiffys, with the lion's share of its business in the EU single market, is upping sticks. Their reasons are damning, and will apply to an awful lot of companies in the UK with trading interests in the EU.

 

Mr Peckett said: “Smiffys have no choice but to protect our business by moving our headquarters to the EU. This will allow us to continue growing our trade to the EU, from within the single market."

 

Prior to joining the single market, Smiffys exported only a tiny fraction of their current sales to the EU.

 

“Both Smiffys and its European customers were then faced with bureaucratic and administrative barriers, not to mention the costly import duties that our products attracted, making us uncompetitive,” Mr Peckett explained.

 

“Going back to these times would feel like a step back in time and a lost opportunity to freely access a trading bloc of over 500 million people,” he added.

 

The company also employs a number of EU nationals, whose futures in the UK are now wrapped up in the shenanigans of the Brexiteers.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-smiffys-business-moves-leaves-uk-europe-hq-exodus-a7371956.html

 

Other companies and banks have warned that they'll start making relocation decisions in early 2017 - years before any 'deal' is actually struck, if it ever will be. So goes the piece-by-piece dismantling of the British economy.

[Guided Missile]

Here's one of many canaries in the coal mine - a small (250 employees) Lincolnshire costuming company called Smiffys, with the lion's share of its business in the EU single market, is upping sticks. Their reasons are damning, and will apply to an awful lot of companies in the UK with trading interests in the EU.

 

Mr Peckett said: “Smiffys have no choice but to protect our business by moving our headquarters to the EU. This will allow us to continue growing our trade to the EU, from within the single market."

 

Prior to joining the single market, Smiffys exported only a tiny fraction of their current sales to the EU.

 

“Both Smiffys and its European customers were then faced with bureaucratic and administrative barriers, not to mention the costly import duties that our products attracted, making us uncompetitive,” Mr Peckett explained.

 

“Going back to these times would feel like a step back in time and a lost opportunity to freely access a trading bloc of over 500 million people,” he added.

 

The company also employs a number of EU nationals, whose futures in the UK are now wrapped up in the shenanigans of the Brexiteers.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-smiffys-business-moves-leaves-uk-europe-hq-exodus-a7371956.html

 

Other companies and banks have warned that they'll start making relocation decisions in early 2017 - years before any 'deal' is actually struck, if it ever will be. So goes the piece-by-piece dismantling of the British economy.

I wouldn't believe all you read in the newspaper, or what the company director is telling them above. Just for fun, I had a look at the latest set of accounts from "Smiffy's". Their chairman, Ray Peckett said in the annual report, dated 21st September, 2016, less than a month ago, the following:

 

Looking forward into 2016 and beyond, the only certainty is that things will continue to change. The vote to leave the EU will give us many challenges and I am confident that our team will develop this into a great opportunity.

 

As far as their sales in 2015, the breakdown is as follows:

 

[TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]Analysis of turnover[/TD]

[TD]2015[/TD]

[TD]2014[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]£[/TD]

[TD]£[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Sale of goods[/TD]

[TD]56,002,006[/TD]

[TD]56,608,271[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]By geographical market:[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]UK[/TD]

[TD]33,097,314[/TD]

[TD]33,207,986[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Rest of world[/TD]

[TD]22,904,692[/TD]

[TD]23,400,285[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total[/TD]

[TD]56,002,006[/TD]

[TD]56,608,271[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

In other words, I think the director making the statement to the Independent is full of sh!t and any plans they have to move to Holland is more to do with cheap, exploited, box stuffing, EU labour than Brexit.

 

Maybe someone would explain to me why the f*** a company, which sells 2 thirds of it's vital costume, fancy dress, joke and novelty goods in £ sterling would move their operation to the EU post Brexit.....

[solentstars]

Your schnozzle gets longer with each post.

 

Britain can't do more than have the most cursory of discussions about trade with non-EU countries because it hasn't decided (as if that were unilateral!) whether to go for soft Brexit (membership of internal market) or hard Brexit (economic collapse). If the former were actually the outcome, practically all discussions with non-EU countries would have to start from scratch because Britain is not allowed to offer a trading backdoor to the EU market for non-EU countries. Even with the latter, the version of hard Brexit would have to be extreme - no exceptions whatsoever for, say, the car industry and the financial services industry - for Britain to follow through on any trade talks with non-EU countries.

 

Any news, from your superannuated corner of locked in, inflation-proofed benefits, what you'd say to people on non-pension benefits, whose breadline income is already being cut by the hard Brexit-induced run on the pound and the consequent spike in inflation?

At least you get it ,all old bonehead can do is do is use insults to anyone who does not follow his make believe world... its good for a laugh thow.just find it silly we had the best of both worlds but now we are in the crap without a plan and with the main brexit department s run by the 3 stooges. Hopefully Mrs may is giving them enough rope to hang themselves ,has they are way out of there depth.

 

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Edited 21 October, 2016 by solentstars

[Wes Tender]

At least you get it ,all old bonehead can do is do is use insults to anyone who does not follow his make believe world... its good for a laugh thow.just find it silly we had the best of both worlds but now we are in the crap without a plan and with the main brexit department s run by the 3 stooges. Hopefully Mrs may is giving them enough rope to hang themselves ,has they are way out of there depth.

 

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The usual semi-illiterate ramblings from you. I expect that you believe that aligning your views with Verbal's will make you look a bit more intelligent. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You just look like his poodle.

 

Verbal doesn't get anything. As we have not triggered Article 50 yet, his posts are opinion, supposition, guesswork. But at least his has the appearance of educated guesswork, whereas the sort of gibberish you spout, like your assertion that being members of the EU gave us "the best of both worlds" proves that you don't have a clue.

[Wes Tender]

Translation: you have no answers, not even from your gullible and blind acceptance of the 'let's all stay schtum' mantra from the three killer clowns.

 

Here's one of many canaries in the coal mine - a small (250 employees) Lincolnshire costuming company called Smiffys, with the lion's share of its business in the EU single market, is upping sticks. Their reasons are damning, and will apply to an awful lot of companies in the UK with trading interests in the EU.

 

Mr Peckett said: “Smiffys have no choice but to protect our business by moving our headquarters to the EU. This will allow us to continue growing our trade to the EU, from within the single market."

 

Prior to joining the single market, Smiffys exported only a tiny fraction of their current sales to the EU.

 

“Both Smiffys and its European customers were then faced with bureaucratic and administrative barriers, not to mention the costly import duties that our products attracted, making us uncompetitive,” Mr Peckett explained.

 

“Going back to these times would feel like a step back in time and a lost opportunity to freely access a trading bloc of over 500 million people,” he added.

 

The company also employs a number of EU nationals, whose futures in the UK are now wrapped up in the shenanigans of the Brexiteers.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-smiffys-business-moves-leaves-uk-europe-hq-exodus-a7371956.html

 

Other companies and banks have warned that they'll start making relocation decisions in early 2017 - years before any 'deal' is actually struck, if it ever will be. So goes the piece-by-piece dismantling of the British economy.

 

You don't have any answers either. Nobody has any answers at this stage, only aims and objectives which will come into play once negotiations begin in earnest once Article 50 is triggered. I realise how frustrating it must be for you, not being able to pour your vitriol onto the Government's plans for Brexit because they don't choose to show their hand to the EU, but you'll just have to be patient.

 

I had to laugh at your feeble effort to cite one small company wanting to relocate to the EU as evidence that the Referendum vote was causing calamity in the business community. Do they do clown costumes? Apparently there is a bit of a craze for them and you would look good in one. Here is one of many canaries in the coal mine singing a happier tune:-

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-handelsbanken-results-idUKKCN12J0HA

[Verbal]

You don't have any answers either. Nobody has any answers at this stage, only aims and objectives which will come into play once negotiations begin in earnest once Article 50 is triggered. I realise how frustrating it must be for you, not being able to pour your vitriol onto the Government's plans for Brexit because they don't choose to show their hand to the EU, but you'll just have to be patient.

 

Nope. You can do the brown-nosing thing about keeping quiet until the government declares its handful of jokers, but the rest of us are fully entitled to have an opinion, and to read the warning signs of this impeding disaster.

 

After all, however we voted, we're all passengers in this car crash. As demonstrated by the severe ear-bashing May got from European leaders last night, the Tories' delusions may be unshakeable but they remain delusions all the same.

 

Now back to that question: from your superannuated, tripled-locked loft, what do you say to those whose breadline income is being eroded by the Brexit sterling crash? So far, as I predicted, not a single word - not even a mealy-mouthed cliche slavishly borrowed from the three killer clowns.

 

PS. Had to laugh at that ****wit quoting chairman's statements in annual reports.

[Guided Missile]

PS. Had to laugh at that ****wit quoting chairman's statements in annual reports.

You're welcome. They do a great line in clown's shoes if yours are worn out...

[Wes Tender]

Nope. You can do the brown-nosing thing about keeping quiet until the government declares its handful of jokers, but the rest of us are fully entitled to have an opinion, and to read the warning signs of this impeding disaster.

 

After all, however we voted, we're all passengers in this car crash. As demonstrated by the severe ear-bashing May got from European leaders last night, the Tories' delusions may be unshakeable but they remain delusions all the same.

 

Now back to that question: from your superannuated, tripled-locked loft, what do you say to those whose breadline income is being eroded by the Brexit sterling crash? So far, as I predicted, not a single word - not even a mealy-mouthed cliche slavishly borrowed from the three killer clowns.

 

PS. Had to laugh at that ****wit quoting chairman's statements in annual reports.

 

As you say, I am also entitled to have an opinion, and whereas you believe the result of the Brexit will be a disaster, I believe that after a short readjustment, we will do just fine. The reception May got from EU heads is not any surprise at all. How dare we leave their beloved Federal United States of Europe Project! But to believe that their reaction says anything about our decision being some sort of car crash, is ludicrous. Their anger is probably far more to do with them not being able to count on our substantial membership fee for belonging to their club and the likelihood that our precedent will have set that others are now more likely to follow us out of the door following their own referenda.

 

I note that you don't take kindly to being shot down in flames by GM and that you think that the Chairman's comments in that annual report are to be ignored because they don't suit your agenda.

 

Regarding your ridiculous insistence that just because I have been astute with my pension I can't be sympathetic to the plight of others less well off, it is truly pathetic, so I won't rise to your bait. Suffice it to say, that according to the profiling that the Guardian likes to do on Brexit voters, it seems that many more older and poorer voters supported us leaving the EU, so your position seems to be that if the economy goes tits up, it will serve them right.

[Guided Missile]

This is the heart of the problem wrt Brexit and why it is so upsetting to Verbal. Buying from China in dollars is more expensive due to the exchange rate movement the currency traders are causing.

 

So, to explain in more detail:

 

Clown Shoes from Smiffy=£12.49

Clown Shoes from China=$14.39

 

So, pre-Brexit Vote Chinese Clown Shoes cost (at $1.55/£) £9.28

Post Brexit Vote Chinese Clown Shoes cost (at $1.22/£) £11.80

 

So...Verbal will have to pay an extra £2.52 for his clown shoes, if Smiffy's maintain their current margins. Luckily, if they decide to cut the margin they charge, it won't affect Smiffy's very much, because the shareholders take out most of the profits in dividends, rather than investing in the business.

I'm not sure how moving to the Netherlands will help them, though. I guess Verbal could move with them and the cost of his clown shoes would be protected from currency movement (assuming the value of the euro doesn't collapse after Deutsche Bank/Italy/Greece/Portugal/Spain go bust)

Edited 21 October, 2016 by Guided Missile
It's Deutsche mein herr...!

[buctootim]

Re Smiffys its obviously a difference of opinion beetween younger generation and old, just like Brexit itself.

 

http://lincolnshirereporter.co.uk/2016/10/no-choice-lincolnshire-firm-quits-britain-brexit/

http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/big-feature-just-big-happy-family/story-24773699-detail/story.html

[Guided Missile]

Re Smiffys its obviously a difference of opinion beetween younger generation and old, just like Brexit itself.

 

http://lincolnshirereporter.co.uk/2016/10/no-choice-lincolnshire-firm-quits-britain-brexit/

http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/big-feature-just-big-happy-family/story-24773699-detail/story.html

Smiffys "younger generation" took a £1.3M dividend from a £1,886,015 profit in 2015. No wonder the c**t is part of "just a big happy family". If he had stated that he is moving to the Netherlands to protect his profits and the dividend trough he and his smug family are feeding from, I'd understand. All this "looking to secure both the future of the company and its employees." is total b0ll0x, but you lads lap it up. Watch him lay all the staff off and blame the Tories...

 

BTW, are clown shoes part of the retail price index? Whitey will be very worried about inflation if they are.

Edited 21 October, 2016 by Guided Missile

[John B]

As you say, I am also entitled to have an opinion, and whereas you believe the result of the Brexit will be a disaster, I believe that after a short readjustment, we will do just fine. The reception May got from EU heads is not any surprise at all. How dare we leave their beloved Federal United States of Europe Project! But to believe that their reaction says anything about our decision being some sort of car crash, is ludicrous. Their anger is probably far more to do with them not being able to count on our substantial membership fee for belonging to their club and the likelihood that our precedent will have set that others are now more likely to follow us out of the door following their own referenda.

 

I note that you don't take kindly to being shot down in flames by GM and that you think that the Chairman's comments in that annual report are to be ignored because they don't suit your agenda.

 

Regarding your ridiculous insistence that just because I have been astute with my pension I can't be sympathetic to the plight of others less well off, it is truly pathetic, so I won't rise to your bait. Suffice it to say, that according to the profiling that the Guardian likes to do on Brexit voters, it seems that many more older and poorer voters supported us leaving the EU, so your position seems to be that if the economy goes tits up, it will serve them right.

 

Leaving the EU is the most stupid thing the UK has ever done

[badgerx16]

Leaving the EU is the most stupid thing the UK has ever done

 

We haven't left yet

[Goatboy]

We haven't left yet

 

Plenty of time for us to do stupider.

[Verbal]

One of the many weirdnesses of the Leave position is that it's premised on the conviction that the EU is dysfunctional. The EU then demonstrates that dysfunctionality by rejecting the CETA trade deal with Canada by the margin of a fraction of one small country. And yet Leave's leaders still say there's some 'have our cake and eat it' trade deal ready to be collected when Article 50 is triggered - in the belief that the EU will act rationally.

 

Delusional.

[Johnny Bognor]

One of the many weirdnesses of the Leave position is that it's premised on the conviction that the EU is dysfunctional. The EU then demonstrates that dysfunctionality by rejecting the CETA trade deal with Canada by the margin of a fraction of one small country. And yet Leave's leaders still say there's some 'have our cake and eat it' trade deal ready to be collected when Article 50 is triggered - in the belief that the EU will act rationally.

 

Delusional.

We won't get a trade deal. The EU has not got a single one of note yet and will fail (as it is in their nature to fail), to get an agreement.

 

But wanting to remain part of an organisation that can't be rational (by your own admission), seems irrational to me. It makes you ask, who's interests do they actually serve??

 

Their obsession with a federalist Europe and the single currency has destroyed the lives of millions of young people.

 

Nice idea, but I'm out

 

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[Wes Tender]

Leaving the EU is the most stupid thing the UK has ever done

 

I'm afraid that the majority of the electorate who voted in the referendum don't agree. Why don't you just call them stupid, in the way that typifies most of the arrogant Remainians. No doubt you thought that we were stupid not to join the ERM too. The stupidity came when we signed the Treaties of Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon without gaining a mandate to do so.

[badgerx16]

Is there such a thing as a "sore winner" ?

[Guided Missile]

Is there such a thing as a "sore winner" ?

Yes, there is, but to quote Churchill:

In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill.

After Article 50 is declared, I am hoping for goodwill....

[badgerx16]

Yes, there is, but to quote Churchill:

 

After Article 50 is declared, I am hoping for goodwill....

I've not seen a lot of magnanimity on here.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Leaving the EU is the most stupid thing the UK has ever done

 

Pony

 

Signing the Maastricht treaty which changed an economic area into a political union was far far stupider.

[buctootim]

The banks, Britain's biggest export earners, worth £126 billion to the economy getting ready to head out says Head of British Banking Association.

 

Just project fear / wont happen / we dont need them / its all about democracy and immigrants anyway dontchaknow.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/22/brexit-threat-to-british-banks

[rallyboy]

I see the Chronicle is also reporting that the key Winchester hospital project is now on hold due to cut backs in post-vote lending by European banks.

[Guided Missile]

Trump card for the UK in the Brexit negotiations according to the Times is a cut in Corporation Tax to 10%. That will f*** the rest of the EU and our economy will grow like Singapore. Screw 'em and go for a hard Brexit and screw the banks as well and bring back manufacturing and jobs back to the UK. Real jobs not city gamblers....

[buctootim]

Trump card for the UK in the Brexit negotiations according to the Times is a cut in Corporation Tax to 10%. That will f*** the rest of the EU and our economy will grow like Singapore. Screw 'em and go for a hard Brexit and screw the banks as well and bring back manufacturing and jobs back to the UK. Real jobs not city gamblers....

 

Dreamland. We aren't going to be a manufacturing led economy again even if corporation tax was zero - unless you also plan to cut wages to $10 per day? Your use of Singapore as a manufacturing example shows how out of touch you are. Their base has been in decline for a decade- due to high wage costs compared with China. The funny / ironic part of your post if only you knew it was that their growth is now driven by banking.

 

http://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/2016/04/22/singapore-overtakes-hong-kong-in-finance.html

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore/singapore-s-manufacturing/2551056.html

Edited 23 October, 2016 by buctootim

[Johnny Bognor]

I've mentioned corporation tax cuts before. More than offsets any WTO tariffs.

 

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[buctootim]

I've mentioned corporation tax cuts before. More than offsets any WTO tariffs.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

 

We know maths isnt your strong point. WTO tariffs are mostly 10%. Nissan for example would be subject to 10% import duties on parts and then 10% duties on exports. c20% extra on sales of c£7.5bn is going to be rather more than a cut in tax on profits - 1, They wont be making any profits 2. They wont be here.

[Johnny Bognor]

Errr stop making things up. The currency devaluation already covers your hypothetical scenario.

 

But you don't put import tarrifs on them because believe it or not, we can do what we want. The 10% for export would be payable but exports would still be cheaper than pre-referendum.

 

A 10% corporation tax rate is more than just a sweetener...

Edited 23 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

Errr stop making things up. The currency devaluation already covers your hypothetical scenario.

 

But you don't put import tarrifs on them because believe it or not, we can do what we want. The 10% for export would be payable but exports would still be cheaper than pre-referendum.

 

A 10% corporation tax rate is more than just a sweetener...

 

Got it. We're cutting corporation tax, not introducing tariffs, losing a big chunk of our biggest earner, more expensive imports don't count (even though imports far exceed exports) and balancing the budget. As I said, Dreamland.

[Johnny Bognor]

Got it. We're cutting corporation tax, not introducing tariffs, losing a big chunk of our biggest earner, more expensive imports don't count (even though imports far exceed exports) and balancing the budget. As I said, Dreamland.

 

OK, I think you need a lesson in basic commercials.

 

Your premise that nissan cars will be 20% more expensive due to 10% tarrifs each way, is beyond the realms of failing a GCSE in business studies and shows why people like you are more suited to the public sector.

 

I will let you into a little secret. There are many factors that make up the costs of making a car.

 

The overhead

This is the cost of premises, plant, sales, marketing, finance and admin functions. Training, R&D etc etc. I could go on, but if you havent got this by now, there is little point. The vast majority of the overhead does not attract import tax, because believe it or not, they are not imported. The price set for a car has to take account of the overhead as well as the materials etc.

 

Labour

The people working on the assembly lines are not subject to import tax. Then there's the paint sprayers, warehouse workers, supervisors etc etc. Industry averages suggest that 21% of the cost of producing a car is attributable to direct labour. Believe it or not, but this does not attract import duty.

 

Components and raw materials

These could be subject to import costs, if they are imported. Not all components are imported. For those that are, we would pay, but these only represent a proportion of the overall cost of a car. The imported element would also be impacted by the fall in the £, but again, this only represents a proportion of the cost in making the car.

 

Then once you have taken account of all costs, there is the profit margin you want to make. This is not actually imported, but added to the cost of making a car and is incorporated in the sales price.

 

So your assumption of adding 10% import tax to the whole cost of the car is beyond completely and utterly wrong. I cannot believe you could be so naive so can only assume that you are deliberately talking out of your ar*e and making things up to suit your argument.

 

As for the 10% export tax the other way, which effects the overall price of the car, it has already been more than wiped out by the fall in the £.. this is all before cutting corporation tax.

 

 

The point can be illustrated with ball park numbers....

 

The component parts and raw materials account for 50% of the manufacturers price of a car (based on a recent automotive engineers study. It is actually 47%, but i am feeling generous).

 

So assuming 100% of the components were imported on a car that sells for £20k (again i am being generous because not all components are imported), the cost of materials with the fall in the £ and 10% import duty means that the costs would increase by £3k. In order for the manufacturer to make the same £ margin of £10k, the car would now have to sell for £23k, as opposed to the original £20k. Add 10% to the sale price for export and that car is now £25.5k on the continent.

 

Before the referendum (at a rate of 1.4 euro to the £) the price of the car would have been £20k and sold for €28k in Europe.

 

Now, the price of the car is £25.5k to manufacture and export, so would now sell for €28k (based on 1.1 euro to the £)

 

So being over generous by assuming 100% of materials and components are imported, applying import and export taxes fully, applying a generous exchange rate, the EU consumer pays exactly the same and the manufacturer makes the same £ margin.

 

A corporation tax cut would be a net gain for Nissan.

Edited 23 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

OK, I think you need a lesson in basic commercials.

 

Your premise that nissan cars will be 20% more expensive due to 10% tarrifs each way, is beyond the realms of failing a GCSE in business studies and shows why people like you are more suited to the public sector.

 

I will let you into a little secret. There are many factors that make up the costs of making a car.

 

The overhead

This is the cost of premises, plant, sales, marketing, finance and admin functions. Training, R&D etc etc. I could go on, but if you havent got this by now, there is little point. The vast majority of the overhead does not attract import tax, because believe it or not, they are not imported. The price set for a car has to take account of the overhead as well as the materials etc.

 

Labour

The people working on the assembly lines are not subject to import tax. Then there's the paint sprayers, warehouse workers, supervisors etc etc. Industry averages suggest that 21% of the cost of producing a car is attributable to direct labour. Believe it or not, but this does not attract import duty.

 

Components and raw materials

These could be subject to import costs, if they are imported. Not all components are imported. For those that are, we would pay, but these only represent a proportion of the overall cost of a car. The imported element would also be impacted by the fall in the £, but again, this only represents a proportion of the cost in making the car.

 

Then once you have taken account of all costs, there is the profit margin you want to make. This is not actually imported, but added to the cost of making a car and is incorporated in the sales price.

 

So your assumption of adding 10% import tax to the whole cost of the car is beyond completely and utterly wrong. I cannot believe you could be so naive so can only assume that you are deliberately talking out of your ar*e and making things up to suit your argument.

 

As for the 10% export tax the other way, which effects the overall price of the car, it has already been more than wiped out by the fall in the £.. this is all before cutting corporation tax.

 

 

The point can be illustrated with ball park numbers....

 

The component parts and raw materials account for 50% of the manufacturers price of a car (based on a recent automotive engineers study. It is actually 47%, but i am feeling generous).

 

So assuming 100% of the components were imported on a car that sells for £20k (again i am being generous because not all components are imported), the cost of materials with the fall in the £ and 10% import duty means that the costs would increase by £3k. In order for the manufacturer to make the same £ margin of £10k, the car would now have to sell for £23k, as opposed to the original £20k. Add 10% to the sale price for export and that car is now £25.5k on the continent.

 

Before the referendum (at a rate of 1.4 euro to the £) the price of the car would have been £20k and sold for €28k in Europe.

 

Now, the price of the car is £25.5k to manufacture and export, so would now sell for €28k (based on 1.1 euro to the £)

 

So being over generous by assuming 100% of materials and components are imported, applying import and export taxes fully, applying a generous exchange rate, the EU consumer pays exactly the same and the manufacturer makes the same £ margin.

 

A corporation tax cut would be a net gain for Nissan.

 

As I said, Dreamland. Only 37% of the components of 'British made' cars by value are sourced in Britain, most of the parts are imported. 14 of the 15 worlds largest car parts suppliers are German, French or American. You can witter on about the price of raw materials but guess what? its irrelevant. Jaguar, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Toyota, Mini and the rest don't buy raw materials. They buy finished dashboards complete with instrumentation, they mostly buy imported engines, they buy in seats, tyres, sunroofs, door handles ad infinitum.

 

A corporation tax cut would outweigh tariffs? You simply have no clue, but its typical of Brexit economics. It is possible to reasonably argue, like Duckhunter, that the gains of exit are worth the economic cost of leaving the EU - I think thats wrong but its a valid argument. You are simply an illiterate who thinks giving it large making up figures about the cost of car manufacture makes you look informed. It doesnt.

 

"In the UK, 37% of the total value of spend in the supply chain (£33 billion in 2012) is currently sourced locally. Depending on the manufacturer, between 20-50% is imported from the EU and the rest from outside the EU".

http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf

Edited 23 October, 2016 by buctootim

[buctootim]

OK, I think you need a lesson in basic commercials.

 

Your premise that nissan cars will be 20% more expensive due to 10% tarrifs each way, is beyond the realms of failing a GCSE in business studies and shows why people like you are more suited to the public sector.

 

I will let you into a little secret. There are many factors that make up the costs of making a car.

 

The overhead

This is the cost of premises, plant, sales, marketing, finance and admin functions. Training, R&D etc etc. I could go on, but if you havent got this by now, there is little point. The vast majority of the overhead does not attract import tax, because believe it or not, they are not imported. The price set for a car has to take account of the overhead as well as the materials etc.

 

Labour

The people working on the assembly lines are not subject to import tax. Then there's the paint sprayers, warehouse workers, supervisors etc etc. Industry averages suggest that 21% of the cost of producing a car is attributable to direct labour. Believe it or not, but this does not attract import duty.

 

Components and raw materials

These could be subject to import costs, if they are imported. Not all components are imported. For those that are, we would pay, but these only represent a proportion of the overall cost of a car. The imported element would also be impacted by the fall in the £, but again, this only represents a proportion of the cost in making the car.

 

Then once you have taken account of all costs, there is the profit margin you want to make. This is not actually imported, but added to the cost of making a car and is incorporated in the sales price.

 

So your assumption of adding 10% import tax to the whole cost of the car is beyond completely and utterly wrong. I cannot believe you could be so naive so can only assume that you are deliberately talking out of your ar*e and making things up to suit your argument.

 

As for the 10% export tax the other way, which effects the overall price of the car, it has already been more than wiped out by the fall in the £.. this is all before cutting corporation tax.

 

 

The point can be illustrated with ball park numbers....

 

The component parts and raw materials account for 50% of the manufacturers price of a car (based on a recent automotive engineers study. It is actually 47%, but i am feeling generous).

 

So assuming 100% of the components were imported on a car that sells for £20k (again i am being generous because not all components are imported), the cost of materials with the fall in the £ and 10% import duty means that the costs would increase by £3k. In order for the manufacturer to make the same £ margin of £10k, the car would now have to sell for £23k, as opposed to the original £20k. Add 10% to the sale price for export and that car is now £25.5k on the continent.

 

Before the referendum (at a rate of 1.4 euro to the £) the price of the car would have been £20k and sold for €28k in Europe.

 

Now, the price of the car is £25.5k to manufacture and export, so would now sell for €28k (based on 1.1 euro to the £)

 

So being over generous by assuming 100% of materials and components are imported, applying import and export taxes fully, applying a generous exchange rate, the EU consumer pays exactly the same and the manufacturer makes the same £ margin.

 

A corporation tax cut would be a net gain for Nissan.

 

As I said, Dreamland. Only 37% of the components of 'British made' cars by value are sourced in Britain, most of the parts are imported. 14 of the 15 worlds largest car parts suppliers are German, French or American. You can witter on about the price of raw materials but guess what? its irrelevant. Jaguar, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Toyota, Mini and the rest don't buy raw materials. They buy finished dashboards complete with instrumentation, they mostly buy imported engines, they buy in seats, tyres, sunroofs, door handles ad infinitum.

 

A corporation tax cut would outweigh tariffs? You simply have no clue, but its typical of Brexit economics. It is possible to reasonably argue, like Duckhunter, that the gains of exit are worth the economic cost of leaving the EU - I think thats wrong but its a valid argument. You are simply an illiterate who thinks giving it large making up figures about the cost of car manufacture makes you look informed. It doesnt.

 

"In the UK, 37% of the total value of spend in the supply chain (£33 billion in 2012) is currently sourced locally. Depending on the manufacturer, between 20-50% is imported from the EU and the rest from outside the EU".

http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf

Edited 23 October, 2016 by buctootim

[Johnny Bognor]

As I said, Dreamland. Only 37% of the components of 'British made' cars by value are sourced in Britain, most of the parts are imported. 14 of the 15 worlds largest car parts suppliers are German, French or American. You can witter on about the price of raw materials but guess what? its irrelevant. Jaguar, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Toyota, Mini and the rest don't buy raw materials. They buy finished dashboards complete with instrumentation, they mostly buy imported engines, they buy in seats, tyres, sunroofs, door handles ad infinitum.

 

A corporation tax cut would outweigh tariffs? You simply have no clue, but its typical of Brexit economics. It is possible to reasonably argue, like Duckhunter, that the gains of exit are worth the economic cost of leaving the EU - I think thats wrong but its a valid argument. You are simply an illiterate who thinks giving it large making up figures about the cost of car manufacture makes you look informed. It doesnt.

 

"In the UK, 37% of the total value of spend in the supply chain (£33 billion in 2012) is currently sourced locally. Depending on the manufacturer, between 20-50% is imported from the EU and the rest from outside the EU".

http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf

 

Errr in my worked example I gave you 100% of components imported and it still makes no difference.

 

All you have done is confirm that import tariffs will only partially apply. Therefore disproving your own point.

 

Errr I have been arguing that currency changes have already wiped out the net effect of import and export tax

 

Go back and try again.

Edited 23 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

As I said, Dreamland. Only 37% of the components of 'British made' cars by value are sourced in Britain, most of the parts are imported. 14 of the 15 worlds largest car parts suppliers are German, French or American. You can witter on about the price of raw materials but guess what? its irrelevant. Jaguar, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Toyota, Mini and the rest don't buy raw materials. They buy finished dashboards complete with instrumentation, they mostly buy imported engines, they buy in seats, tyres, sunroofs, door handles ad infinitum.

 

A corporation tax cut would outweigh tariffs? You simply have no clue, but its typical of Brexit economics. It is possible to reasonably argue, like Duckhunter, that the gains of exit are worth the economic cost of leaving the EU - I think thats wrong but its a valid argument. You are simply an illiterate who thinks giving it large making up figures about the cost of car manufacture makes you look informed. It doesnt.

 

"In the UK, 37% of the total value of spend in the supply chain (£33 billion in 2012) is currently sourced locally. Depending on the manufacturer, between 20-50% is imported from the EU and the rest from outside the EU".

http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf

 

Errr in my worked example I gave you 100% of components imported and it still makes no difference.

 

All you have done is confirm that import tariffs will only partially apply. Therefore disproving your own point.

 

Errr I have been arguing that currency changes have already wiped out the net effect of import and export tax

 

Go back and try again.

Edited 23 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[CB Fry]

Errr in my worked example I gave you 100% of components imported and it still makes no difference. Go back and try again.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

It was you that attempted a load of made up numbers on Marmite as well wasn't it?

 

Seriously, give it up.

[CB Fry]

Errr in my worked example I gave you 100% of components imported and it still makes no difference. Go back and try again.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

It was you that attempted a load of made up numbers on Marmite as well wasn't it?

 

Seriously, give it up.

[Wade Garrett]

Whether or not we would be better off or not after Brexit is irrelevant. The vote has been decided. Let's move on and make the best of it, instead of arguing and crying like babies.

[Wade Garrett]

Whether or not we would be better off or not after Brexit is irrelevant. The vote has been decided. Let's move on and make the best of it, instead of arguing and crying like babies.

[Johnny Bognor]

It was you that attempted a load of made up numbers on Marmite as well wasn't it?

 

Seriously, give it up.

 

This place is littered with people who don't get the basics. Hence the need for simple examples. I can see you don't get it either.

 

So lets get this straight smarty pants. A couple of really easy questions for you...

 

You agree that 10% tariffs on imported components and 10% tariiffs on the sale price of the car equates to 20% increase in the sales price of that car???

 

You believe that currency movements dont have a positive impact for car exporters or any exporters for that matter???

Edited 24 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

It was you that attempted a load of made up numbers on Marmite as well wasn't it?

 

Seriously, give it up.

 

This place is littered with people who don't get the basics. Hence the need for simple examples. I can see you don't get it either.

 

So lets get this straight smarty pants. A couple of really easy questions for you...

 

You agree that 10% tariffs on imported components and 10% tariiffs on the sale price of the car equates to 20% increase in the sales price of that car???

 

You believe that currency movements dont have a positive impact for car exporters or any exporters for that matter???

Edited 24 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[badgerx16]

This place is littered with people who don't get the basics. Hence the need for simple examples. I can see you don't get it either.

 

The change in exchange rates since the referendum have already wiped out the net effect of import / export taxes on cars shipped to Europe. It really is quite a simple concept. .. Thought you had more intelligence

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

But surely, at present, the price to a customer in the continental market will have dropped by virtue of the drop in exchange rates, and consequently the introduction of tarriffs would increase the price as compared to the current situation ?

[badgerx16]

This place is littered with people who don't get the basics. Hence the need for simple examples. I can see you don't get it either.

 

The change in exchange rates since the referendum have already wiped out the net effect of import / export taxes on cars shipped to Europe. It really is quite a simple concept. .. Thought you had more intelligence

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

But surely, at present, the price to a customer in the continental market will have dropped by virtue of the drop in exchange rates, and consequently the introduction of tarriffs would increase the price as compared to the current situation ?

[Johnny Bognor]

But surely, at present, the price to a customer in the continental market will have dropped by virtue of the drop in exchange rates, and consequently the introduction of tarriffs would increase the price as compared to the current situation ?

 

It depends on whther the dealers buy in pounds or euros. It would be interesting to see if prices have fallen although I seriously doubt it.

 

Unilever were trying to increase their prices to the EU, not reduce them.

 

Look, if you only take the negative impacts of brexit and none of the positives, of course it looks bad. But that's not a realistic or sensible position to take.

Edited 24 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

But surely, at present, the price to a customer in the continental market will have dropped by virtue of the drop in exchange rates, and consequently the introduction of tarriffs would increase the price as compared to the current situation ?

 

It depends on whther the dealers buy in pounds or euros. It would be interesting to see if prices have fallen although I seriously doubt it.

 

Unilever were trying to increase their prices to the EU, not reduce them.

 

Look, if you only take the negative impacts of brexit and none of the positives, of course it looks bad. But that's not a realistic or sensible position to take.

Edited 24 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor