Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

No.  The Judge (and Carole) conceded that Carole had lied / made it up / was factually untrue.  Go read about it - quite bizarre.

 

 

Banks lost the case because the main thrust of what she wrote was not defamatory or libellous, and was in the public interest. What was conceded was that any funds from foreign sources were not received "against the Law".

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=cadwalladr+arron+banks&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIwMmm-r34AhXSSsAKHZ7tDQMQBXoECA0QAQ

Edited 21 June, 2022 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

30 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Banks lost the case because the main thrust of what she wrote was not defamatory or libellous, and was in the public interest. What was conceded was that any funds from foreign sources were not received "against the Law".

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=cadwalladr+arron+banks&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIwMmm-r34AhXSSsAKHZ7tDQMQBXoECA0QAQ

“Ms Cadwalladr has not sought to withdraw from or dilute her clear acknowledgment that the single meaning is untrue. Ms Cadwalladr gave evidence that “there was no evidence” that Mr Banks “had gone through with the deals” (proffered via the Russian embassy) “or made any money from them”; or that he “had accepted any money from the Russian government or its proxies”. Nor was there any evidence “that Russian money went into the Brexit campaign”. Ms Cadwalladr also made clear that she had never thought Mr Banks was a “Russian agent” or a “Russian actor”.”

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

“Ms Cadwalladr has not sought to withdraw from or dilute her clear acknowledgment that the single meaning is untrue. Ms Cadwalladr gave evidence that “there was no evidence” that Mr Banks “had gone through with the deals” (proffered via the Russian embassy) “or made any money from them”; or that he “had accepted any money from the Russian government or its proxies”. Nor was there any evidence “that Russian money went into the Brexit campaign”. Ms Cadwalladr also made clear that she had never thought Mr Banks was a “Russian agent” or a “Russian actor”.”

And what I posted is true - Banks lost the case.

[The Cat]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/22/brexit-is-making-cost-of-living-crisis-worse-new-study-claims

 

[Nolan]

21 minutes ago, The Cat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/22/brexit-is-making-cost-of-living-crisis-worse-new-study-claims

 

As an importer, I can say that is utter tosh.

Pretty much every added cost is universally international. From the costs of Cardboard due to the paper shortages, to the cost of shipping due to volumes and routes being all over the place. and mostly due to Lockdown, the staggered restarts of production and the inability to be able to work out how much of an item is needed in the supply chain.

worth comparing food inflation to the EU

 

 

 

Edited 22 June, 2022 by Nolan

[buctootim]

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

As an importer, I can say that is utter tosh.

Pretty much every added cost is universally international. From the costs of Cardboard due to the paper shortages, to the cost of shipping due to volumes and routes being all over the place. and mostly due to Lockdown, the staggered restarts of production and the inability to be able to work out how much of an item is needed in the supply chain.

worth comparing food inflation to the EU

 

 

 

Did you not understand the article? It was clearly about Brexit reducing Britain's competiveness, reduction in rexports and British people losing income. It didnt mention the price of imported fruit and veg.  

[Nolan]

Its plucking unprovable numbers out of the air just in time for the anniversary of the referendum, to appease Guardian readers.

 

 

 

Edited 22 June, 2022 by Nolan

[buctootim]

Not really. There clearly are additional costs, delays and paperwork associated with being outside the single market. That was why Thatcher the great free marketeer was so keen on creating it. It might be possible to argue the additional costs are worth it because of the sunny uplands and future honey, but no one seriously argues the costs aren’t there 

[Super_Uwe]

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

As an importer, I can say that is utter tosh.

Pretty much every added cost is universally international. From the costs of Cardboard due to the paper shortages, to the cost of shipping due to volumes and routes being all over the place. and mostly due to Lockdown, the staggered restarts of production and the inability to be able to work out how much of an item is needed in the supply chain.

worth comparing food inflation to the EU

 

 

 

The UK being out of the Single Market entirely (save for the arrangements under the NI Protocol) is clearly having an all round impact. I work in a small wine shop, our suppliers are finding ordering stuff now from EU countries takes significantly longer than pre-1 Jan 2021, and it varies from country to country. It isn't solely down to being out of the Single Market and customs union (as you say the pandemic and disrupted supply chains have had global impacts), but it is exacerbating the problems because it is no longer as free flowing as it was before. That extra time translates into cost, whatever way you look at it. And it's not just for the UK but also for the EU too, their high inflation figures aren't a cause for celebration as it further proves the fact all of our economies are interlinked.

[Nolan]

3 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Not really. There clearly are additional costs, delays and paperwork associated with being outside the single market. That was why Thatcher the great free marketeer was so keen on creating it. It might be possible to argue the additional costs are worth it because of the sunny uplands and future honey, but no one seriously argues the costs aren’t there 

Costs about £50-£100 a consignment (so for a 24 tonne Vehicle if you can bring in in volume). And I've had zero delays in the last 2 years. (Apart from bad weather).

People are desperate for it to have caused problems. But the only issues have come from Covid, not Brexit.

The electronic pre-notification system for ports is working well.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Nolan said:

Costs about £50-£100 a consignment (so for a 24 tonne Vehicle if you can bring in in volume). And I've had zero delays in the last 2 years. (Apart from bad weather).

People are desperate for it to have caused problems. But the only issues have come from Covid, not Brexit.

The electronic pre-notification system for ports is working well.

You are not considering exports here and the extra costs that the EU importers have to find are affecting our sales to them.

[sadoldgit]

Judging by the number of people who called a phone in about the effect of Brexit on their small businesses in this country it has royally shafted them. I do some part time work for a small business and the price of materials have gone through the roof and delivery times are all over the place. What used to take days now takes weeks. 

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Judging by the number of people who called a phone in about the effect of Brexit on their small businesses in this country it has royally shafted them. I do some part time work for a small business and the price of materials have gone through the roof and delivery times are all over the place. What used to take days now takes weeks. 

No, no, no !!!!!

COVID and the Ukraine/Russia conflict are entirely to blame. Have you not noticed the "Sunny Uplands" all around you ?

[Mosin]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You are not considering exports here and the extra costs that the EU importers have to find are affecting our sales to them.

Curious, i know curiousity killed the cat, but still...

how does exporting any thing like Electronic display systems, or other items, lower the cost of importing fuel, gas, food and other essential shopping items? that will lower my personal / family cost of living? will they just like magically change if we was apart of the EU still / rejoined?.

Even when the price for these same items are rising faster in alot of the EU? or is it rising faster for them because we are exporting less to them?

Just want to get a clearer understanding on why remainers ( Not intended as an insult but mearly to describe people who blame brexit for every thing / antibrexit people ) feel the need to blame the same price rises around the globe on brexit, and how or why you not exporting the EU will incress how much i brought my bread and fuel at tesco for, or why i now pay more for my gas. its my understanding its because of the war and the covid, im all ears if you can explain to me how you or other people exporting goods lowers the price of my weekly shop, fuel and gas bill.

If you can explain it to me, ill vote to rejoin if a vote ever happens.





 

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, Mosin said:

Curious, i know curiousity killed the cat, but still...

how does exporting any thing like Electronic display systems, or other items, lower the cost of importing fuel, gas, food and other essential shopping items? that will lower my personal / family cost of living? will they just like magically change if we was apart of the EU still / rejoined?.

Even when the price for these same items are rising faster in alot of the EU? or is it rising faster for them because we are exporting less to them?

Just want to get a clearer understanding on why remainers ( Not intended as an insult but mearly to describe people who blame brexit for every thing / antibrexit people ) feel the need to blame the same price rises around the globe on brexit, and how or why you not exporting the EU will incress how much i brought my bread and fuel at tesco for, or why i now pay more for my gas. its my understanding its because of the war and the covid, im all ears if you can explain to me how you or other people exporting goods lowers the price of my weekly shop, fuel and gas bill.

If you can explain it to me, ill vote to rejoin if a vote ever happens.





 

Exchange rates, for a start.

 

[skintsaint]

13 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

and the price of materials have gone through the roof and delivery times are all over the place. What used to take days now takes weeks or months. 

Phew, glad its just not happening here in Aus then.

Edited 23 June, 2022 by skintsaint

[whelk]

Soon be the land of milk and honey boys. Hey at least you weren’t too fucking thick to swallow Project Fear

 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by whelk

[Warriorsaint]

Brexit in one pic!

 

 

[badgerx16]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62209989

 

"The government should appoint a touring "tsar" to unravel the red tape facing British musicians in Europe, a cross-party group of MPs and peers has said.

They would need to tackle the soaring costs of obtaining visas and transporting instruments that bands have encountered since Brexit.

Some orchestras face bills of £5,000 every time they play abroad, said the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Music.

It added the industry faced a "crisis" that required "urgent" action.

The call came in a major report into the state of touring post-Brexit, that warned musicians and their crew were "facing more costs, more complications and getting fewer opportunities" since the UK left the EU at the end of January 2020.

"It's over two years since Brexit, yet there is still a mountain of red tape," said Labour MP Kevin Brennan, who chairs the all-party group.

"Ultimately, it's a self-inflicted wound that doesn't have to be there.""

[tajjuk]

On 22/06/2022 at 07:32, Nolan said:

As an importer, I can say that is utter tosh.

Pretty much every added cost is universally international. From the costs of Cardboard due to the paper shortages, to the cost of shipping due to volumes and routes being all over the place. and mostly due to Lockdown, the staggered restarts of production and the inability to be able to work out how much of an item is needed in the supply chain.

worth comparing food inflation to the EU

 

 

 

Yes I am sure you are more knowledgeable than academic researchers at the LSE 

The amount of head burying going on is just staggering. Just accept reality, Brexit is a flop, it sucks, we are the worst recovering G7 country from the pandemic and that is purely down to Brexit.  It's also why NI is the best performing part of the UK, because it's still in the single market. 

As that quote above says, it's a self inflicted wound and was totally avoidable. 

[rallyboy]

This is an issue that should have been addressed up to six years ago.

If the culture secretary wasn't a sycophantic and abusive drunk who lacks knowledge in every field, the sector might be in a better place.

Then again, 17.4 million people did vote for touring musicians to be fucked over, so there's arguments both ways.

 

[Nolan]

[badgerx16]

25 minutes ago, Nolan said:

A higher percentage growth from a lower starting point: the UK had the greatest drop in GDP during the pandemic.

[Whitey Grandad]

36 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Differentials always exaggerate small changes. What matters are the longer overall data.

[Nolan]

[badgerx16]

.

Edited 19 July, 2022 by badgerx16

[trousers]

[farawaysaint]

Inflation high wages low, Brexit working as intended.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

I think we've managed to prove that.....

 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think we've managed to prove that.....

 

There are liars, damned liars, and politicians.

[Warriorsaint]

Now that Project fear has become project reality and it’s now supposedly remainers  responsibility to “Make Brexit work” what have been your favourite Brexit Benefits  in the 6 Years since the vote.

[Winnersaint]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550349050616086529

Exporting to the EU made easy!

The real carnage starts today. Schools finished, first weekend of the summer holidays. Critical situation already at Dover 4+ hour waits. Airports going to be interesting as well.

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550349050616086529

Exporting to the EU made easy!

The real carnage starts today. Schools finished, first weekend of the summer holidays. Critical situation already at Dover 4+ hour waits. Airports going to be interesting as well.

Wait until the fuel protests kick in South bound on the M5 later - just in time for the Friday school holiday mass evacuation to Cornwall. It'll be carnage, so I'm working from home today 😉

[whelk]

45 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Now that Project fear has become project reality and it’s now supposedly remainers  responsibility to “Make Brexit work” what have been your favourite Brexit Benefits  in the 6 Years since the vote.

The main benefit is my different coloured passport is covered in stamps making me look a right globetrotter. Without Brexit I would have just had the memories

[Weston Super Saint]

53 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Now that Project fear has become project reality and it’s now supposedly remainers  responsibility to “Make Brexit work” what have been your favourite Brexit Benefits  in the 6 Years since the vote.

Boris won't be PM for much longer is a pretty big benefit - although, granted, the alternative isn't going to be any better.

[The Left Back]

2 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Now that Project fear has become project reality and it’s now supposedly remainers  responsibility to “Make Brexit work” what have been your favourite Brexit Benefits  in the 6 Years since the vote.

Probably travelling abroad is the biggest benefit.  It used to be all go, go, go.  Now we get the chance to sit and contemplate our existence for a few hours on the way to Dover before heading off. Where once we just wandered thoughtlessly through the inspections, now we get the chance to reminisce about our holiday while waiting in the passport hall.

Oh and I agree with Whelk, my new passport is a great colour and full of stamps.  It's really exciting.

[Winnersaint]

No-one seems to have mentioned Freeports in all of this. Or at least I cant be arsed to backtrack through posts to find any. It's worth noting that they were permitted whilst in the EU btw, but not in the guise of the post Brexit Freeport. 

The claim is that Freeports  or 'charter cities' will generate massive economic growth and thereby reduce poverty. Sounds great, and definitely fits a 'Levelling Up' agenda. Southampton and Portsmouth are earmarked for Freeport/Charter City status. I suppose the economic growth angle makes it quite a persuasive argument in their favour.

It is possible that the whole of the Solent area could become privately owned and operated where pretty much everything from health care, education and the police force to local government and the judicial system are not determined by Westminster or by locally democratically elected representatives, but by a private corporation accountable only to itself. They set the rules and enforce them with their privately owned judicial system.

Questions

Do the potential economic benefits outweigh the potential disadvantages?

Is this de-regulation on steroids?

Do they erode democracy?

Do they lead an erosion of rights, particularly those of workers?

Do they lead to a lack commercial transparency?

 

[Winnersaint]

23 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

Probably travelling abroad is the biggest benefit.  It used to be all go, go, go.  Now we get the chance to sit and contemplate our existence for a few hours on the way to Dover before heading off. Where once we just wandered thoughtlessly through the inspections, now we get the chance to reminisce about our holiday while waiting in the passport hall.

Oh and I agree with Whelk, my new passport is a great colour and full of stamps.  It's really exciting.

France getting dog's abuse for controlling its borders. 

Dover traffic: Port declares critical incident over long queues - BBC News

[whelk]

Wouldn’t put it past the French. P&O saying allow 6 hours to clear security checks. Horrendous for poor families trying to get away

[buctootim]

36 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

No-one seems to have mentioned Freeports in all of this. Or at least I cant be arsed to backtrack through posts to find any. It's worth noting that they were permitted whilst in the EU btw, but not in the guise of the post Brexit Freeport. 

The claim is that Freeports  or 'charter cities' will generate massive economic growth and thereby reduce poverty. Sounds great, and definitely fits a 'Levelling Up' agenda. Southampton and Portsmouth are earmarked for Freeport/Charter City status. I suppose the economic growth angle makes it quite a persuasive argument in their favour.

It is possible that the whole of the Solent area could become privately owned and operated where pretty much everything from health care, education and the police force to local government and the judicial system are not determined by Westminster or by locally democratically elected representatives, but by a private corporation accountable only to itself. They set the rules and enforce them with their privately owned judicial system.

 

A lot of the Brexit benefit claims were obviously speculative and dubious, but at least they hadnt been tried before so it wasn't provable they wouldnt work. The odd thing about Freeports is they HAVE been tried before in the UK, by the Thatcher Government in the 1980s and failed - mostly because they didnt offer the benefits which are again being claimed for them. 

Edited 22 July, 2022 by buctootim

[Warriorsaint]

 

[Winnersaint]

33 minutes ago, buctootim said:

A lot of the Brexit benefit claims were obviously speculative and dubious, but at least they hadnt been tried before so it wasn't provable they wouldnt work. The odd thing about Freeports is they HAVE been tried before in the UK, by the Thatcher Government in the 1980s and failed - mostly because they didnt offer the benefits which are again being claimed for them. 

Brexiters would argue that they failed on account of EU state-aid rules. Not sure they are the answer now either, however as they will have to be compliant with WTO rules.

[badgerx16]

48 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Brexiters would argue that they failed on account of EU state-aid rules. Not sure they are the answer now either, however as they will have to be compliant with WTO rules.

Is that not just more Project Fear?

Get on board the Brexit Unicorn Express, we are heading for the Sunny Uplands.

( Auto-fill put that as Dunny Uplands, probably more accurate )

[tajjuk]

We have now become a national embodiment of the Homer meme where he says 'this is everybody's fault but mine'.  Even the bloody BBC, so scared of the licence fee being taken away just repeat the government's nonsense verbatim with zero pushback. We have turned into a nation of spoilt children, always blaming something else. 

Let's blame the French for having a border and putting on border checks, despite knowing full well this would happen when outside the EU and that we chose to do this. 

It's only going to get worse when the biometric checks come in as well. 

 

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

France getting dog's abuse for controlling its borders. 

Dover traffic: Port declares critical incident over long queues - BBC News

Seems like nothing changes, lived in Dover for about 10 years many years back and any backlog of trucks was generally caused by the French side of the channel 😅

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Seems like nothing changes, lived in Dover for about 10 years many years back and any backlog of trucks was generally caused by the French side of the channel 😅

This can't be true!  There were NO backlog of trucks when we were EU members.

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

This can't be true!  There were NO backlog of trucks when we were EU members.

Of course there were, and nobody is claiming otherwise. However, it was entirely predictable that things would only get worse once we "got back control of our borders" - it was an open invitation to the French to exhibit their default bloody mindedness.

Edited 22 July, 2022 by badgerx16

[edprice1984]

I had this exact debate (Argument!) with my Dad the other day. 

He voted remain but unfortunately reads the Daily Telegraph so swallows most of the anti-EU stuff as absolute fact. He was moaning about the French border police actually doing their job the other week, stamping passports etc and causing delays. It got really awkward when I told him we (the UK) insisted on this happening. He said that was nonsense, I then directed him to an article in the Telegraph that proved it. 

Didn't talk for 10 minutes and then changed the subject to Rwanda...

[whelk]

Here you go 

 

[tajjuk]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Of course there were, and nobody is claiming otherwise. However, it was entirely predictable that things would only get worse once we "got back control of our borders" - it was an open invitation to the French to exhibit their default bloody mindedness.

I read something about it last year where basically Dover had to put traffic calming measures on average maybe 5-6 times a year, and it's basically now increased to them having to do it way way more often, this was happening in January, and they were saying they'd never had queues in the quieter times of the year.